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War and Pieces posted:So its like he arranged for himself to get blown up because he knew this was the end of an era and his methods were no longer needed? Oberstein believed in his methods, he was probably one of the least deluded that there would be some transition to a magical end of history if Reinhard just won hard enough. But unlike most of the slimeballs citing the needs of the state as a justification for cruelty and internal power-seeking that they already wanted to do, Oberstein actually walked the walk, and was willing to offer himself up like any other pawn if the ends justified the means. "Being alive is not the only way to serve your country."
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Jul 17, 2023 21:08
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Oberstein was also pretty against senseless death Plus he was one of the best reps for people with aspergers in fiction 
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Jul 17, 2023 21:14
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The interesting thing about Oberstein to me is how readily he admits to being a bad person. He is a "True Believer" in Reinhardt's ability to reform the empire while nonetheless maintaining no illusions about himself, his work, or how he is perceived. He's hated and he knows it, or rather, he wants to be hated; better him than Reinhardt. Reinhardt has this glow about him, A Great Man of History, and it would sully his image, his charisma, to be personally responsible for the dirty work that needs doing. So Oberstein does it, accepts the blame, and dies knowing no one will mourn him, that even history will probably scorn him, but that's okay because it was never about him. It's a twist on the Japanese philosophy found in the Hagakure, "The way of the samurai is found in death." The true, diligent samurai commits his body and will entire to being an extension of his master, a tool for their use, to be used as needed and discarded if necessary. But rather than seek his master's instruction, Oberstein intuits what Reinhardt needs but would never request, high-minded as he is, and allows himself to fall on the sword for the sake of his greater goal. Although the Empire is flavored after Germany (with the Federation filling in for the United States), the whole thing's really about Japan. They filed the serial numbers off to better disguise the subject matter, but having read a fair bit of Japanese history and philosophy, once you see it you can't unsee it.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:32
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I feel you could make the point that a lot of the cynicism about Democracy is rooted in the experience of democracy in Japan. It's just Imperial Japan vs modern Japan with a bunch of flavor.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:35
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You guys should read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms
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Jul 18, 2023 05:36
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Bad Seafood posted:The interesting thing about Oberstein to me is how readily he admits to being a bad person. He is a "True Believer" in Reinhardt's ability to reform the empire while nonetheless maintaining no illusions about himself, his work, or how he is perceived. He's hated and he knows it, or rather, he wants to be hated; better him than Reinhardt. Reinhardt has this glow about him, A Great Man of History, and it would sully his image, his charisma, to be personally responsible for the dirty work that needs doing. So Oberstein does it, accepts the blame, and dies knowing no one will mourn him, that even history will probably scorn him, but that's okay because it was never about him. The Empire is according to the Author based on Imperial China despite it's flavor. Also be exact with Oberstein he's not a true believer, cause Reinhardt is ultimately just part of the system that Oberstein wants to get started. Oberstein's motives are ultimately that he hates the Goldenbaum Dynasty and wants heavy reform and a better system. He knows he does not have charisma to bring about these things himself, and so aligns with Reinhardt as he views him as someone who can accomplish all of his goals. And the rest of what you say is entirely accurate.
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Jul 18, 2023 21:59
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Gaius Marius posted:You guys should read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Yeah any time you see a Japanese story in which smarty pants generals and ministers have a giant brutal great power conflict so the author has a good excuse to make up goofy stratagems which contrast differing systems of values, it’s this
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Jul 18, 2023 22:28
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skasion posted:Yeah any time you see a Japanese story in which smarty pants generals and ministers have a giant brutal great power conflict so the author has a good excuse to make up goofy stratagems which contrast differing systems of values, it’s this There seems to be a lot of inspiration drawn from Japan's Sengoku period in that sort of content too.
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Jul 18, 2023 22:53
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Gaius Marius posted:You guys should read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms MonsterEnvy posted:The Empire is according to the Author based on Imperial China despite it's flavor. skasion posted:Yeah any time you see a Japanese story in which smarty pants generals and ministers have a giant brutal great power conflict so the author has a good excuse to make up goofy stratagems which contrast differing systems of values, it’s this Shakespeare's Julius Caesar was about classical Rome and his then-contemporary England. You can be about two things. MonsterEnvy posted:Also be exact with Oberstein he's not a true believer, cause Reinhardt is ultimately just part of the system that Oberstein wants to get started. Oberstein's motives are ultimately that he hates the Goldenbaum Dynasty and wants heavy reform and a better system. He knows he does not have charisma to bring about these things himself, and so aligns with Reinhardt as he views him as someone who can accomplish all of his goals. And the rest of what you say is entirely accurate. I saw a comment elsewhere that resonated with my feelings on the show: one of the chief differences between Reinhardt and Yang is only Reinhardt could make Reinhardt's dream a reality, but anyone could bring about what Yang truly wanted. When the king is good the kingdom may prosper, but when the king is bad the kingdom suffers, and there are a lot more Goldenbaums than Reinhardts (and a lone Goldenbaum in power would be enough to upend all the progress of a hypothetical Reinhardt dynasty, just as the reverse was true).
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Jul 18, 2023 23:01
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Bad Seafood posted:Although the Empire is flavored after Germany (with the Federation filling in for the United States), the whole thing's really about Japan. They filed the serial numbers off to better disguise the subject matter, but having read a fair bit of Japanese history and philosophy, once you see it you can't unsee it. it's extremely this, i'm amazed there's even a debate. specific battles and situations are taken from many historical sources, but the philosophical core of the series is a 30-year-old japanese man writing for a japanese audience in the early eighties about the complex ambivalence they might feel when considering the contrast between democracy and military oligarchy. though of course thatt it resonates with a much wider audience is to his immense credit.
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Jul 18, 2023 23:17
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Did anyone else think of Reuenthal launching an insurrection with the stated goal of removing Oberstein and Lang from power during the real life Wagner rebellion with Prigozhin attempting to remove Shoigu and Gerasimov from power?
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Jul 19, 2023 13:40
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Vanilla Bison posted:Oberstein believed in his methods, he was probably one of the least deluded that there would be some transition to a magical end of history if Reinhard just won hard enough. But unlike most of the slimeballs citing the needs of the state as a justification for cruelty and internal power-seeking that they already wanted to do, Oberstein actually walked the walk, and was willing to offer himself up like any other pawn if the ends justified the means. "Being alive is not the only way to serve your country." Why did anyone have to die unless it really was a miscalcuation which while shocking to me the audiance is i guess yet another attack this show makes on great men of history. Even the Just and Planned Guy fucks up in the end
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Jul 19, 2023 15:43
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Bad Seafood posted:I believe you (all of you), and I've even read a bit of Three Kingdoms, so I can see the parallels; however, in my experience, a lot of people who draw from the well of history in the process of writing fiction, especially fiction with a philosophical bent, end up writing about their own time and circumstances in addition to whatever historical period they're plugging. I can easily see the influence Romance must have had on LoGH's conception, but that was still going to be filtered through a Japanese lens, and the political philosophies in question (democracy vs autocracy) would certainly be salient to a Japanese author born shortly after World War II. What it's less about is Germany, though that's something I see thrown around. You might even say that in every time, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:35
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LoGH is also about the invasion of Iraq in 2003
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Jul 19, 2023 17:52
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Rewatching LoGH for the first time in fifteen years, I forgot what an absolute goober Reinhard is with his marriage proposal.
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Jul 20, 2023 01:50
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Been reading the new Andrew Robert's Napoleon biography and you can see a lot of the maximum goober energy him and Reinhard share. An undeniable skill for inspiring loyalty, convincing everyone from his generals to his infantry that they themselves are writing history, the complete despisment of the monarchy and aristocracy despite it being what led to the being in command, and of course the complete inability to not come off like a socially maladjusted dork whenever in higher society. At least Hildegard wasn't cheating on Reinhard with half the empire and Reinhard didn't spend a quarter of his days writing cringecore letters pathetically exclaiming his undying love.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:Oberstein was also pretty against senseless death Hate to be that guy, but F.Y.I "Asperger's" hasn't been an official diagnosis since 2013. More recently, its namesake was outed as a Nazi sympathizer. It's time for the name to go." https://www.fatherly.com/health/aspergers-vs-autism-and-hans-asperger In 2013, it was reclassified as autism spectrum disorder. I'm just learning these things myself because I'm discovering at age 36 that me being weird all my life may have to do with being on the spectrum a bit and also possibly ADHD
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Jul 20, 2023 13:23
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Quaint Quail Quilt posted:Hate to be that guy, but F.Y.I The medical field in general has been trying to move away eponyms from Nazis (see reactive arthritis and granulomatosis with polyangiitis), though there are still at least a couple floating around with no accepted replacement.
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Jul 20, 2023 13:54
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If it's a change made only a decade ago odds are any given psychiatrist doesn't know or doesn't care.
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Jul 20, 2023 14:01
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Schwarzwald posted:If it's a change made only a decade ago odds are any given psychiatrist doesn't know or doesn't care. Just find out if they're still using DSM-IV
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Jul 20, 2023 14:43
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Quaint Quail Quilt posted:Hate to be that guy, but F.Y.I Thank you for this post, I second it. (Diagnosed autistic myself, used the nazi term for a long time before I learned and well! Time to change and become better.)
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Jul 20, 2023 14:46
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now lets tell the people in the autism thread about logh
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Jul 20, 2023 16:52
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Doc Hawkins posted:now lets tell the people in the autism thread about logh if they don't already know they're faking it
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Jul 21, 2023 03:36
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Bad Seafood posted:
Well Oberstein also helps mold Reinhardt into the type he wants.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:53
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Got to introduce the Youthful Ward to the show this week, using DNT. All I had to tell her was "It's got pretty boys in uniform staring meaningfully into each others' eyes beyond the dreams of the most ardent slashfic writers," and she was all in. When we got to the first appearance of the locket, even she was all "OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS VICTORIAN WAR WIDOW BULLSHIT?" and it was glorious.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:47
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Madurai posted:When we got to the first appearance of the locket, even she was all "OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS VICTORIAN WAR WIDOW BULLSHIT?" and it was glorious. Kircheis: History's Greatest Waifu? In this essay I will......... Well the discord LD remaster project is still limping along. I still wish they'd just put out a quick n' dirty 720 rip so at least we'd have SOME modern source from the original LDs, but do have to admit these samples are looking pretty clean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8-qr2-EeRQ
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Aug 27, 2023 19:31
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I'm nearly done with this beast of an OVA and happy to say I've mostly loved all of it. Can only think of a few episodes I didn't care for along the way. Wanted to share this YouTube clip, sorry if it has been shared before, but I absolutely love the top comment and feel like it's the perfect summation of Bittenfeld's character "Everyone else in this series is playing galactic chess while this guy is playing cosmic dodgeball." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfD5jYBFB0M
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Aug 31, 2023 20:42
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Which ones did you not care for? Let’s compare notes
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Aug 31, 2023 21:11
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I showed a guy My Conquest Is the Sea of Stars and Overture to a New War last night and now we’re boyfriends. Thanks, thread, for introducing LoGH to me!
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Aug 31, 2023 21:45
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Falathrim posted:I showed a guy My Conquest Is the Sea of Stars and Overture to a New War last night and now we’re boyfriends. there's a new thread title in there somewhere but I cant find it
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Aug 31, 2023 21:48
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:there's a new thread title in there somewhere but I cant find it LoGH: (space)Shipping pretty boys together since 3576 CE
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Aug 31, 2023 23:44
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If you watch Jujutsu Kaisen, stay for the next episode preview this week. This has been a public service announcement. (This is the correct thread.)
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Sep 1, 2023 08:40
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Steve Yun posted:Which ones did you not care for? Let’s compare notes Would need to look at the episode list on Hi-Dive to pick out specific ones, but I think pretty much any episode that was Annerose centric were kind of boring. Also any of the early episodes that were very focused on imperial political maneuvering (prior to the big imperial civil war kicking off) fell a little flat for me. The later imperial centric episodes were all awesome. And now that I think about it, pretty much any episodes that were highly focused on the church of Terra were also forgettable. Oberstein clowning on Bittenfeld and the others for continuously losing to Yang, and then also justifiably criticizing the Kaiser for throwing lives away in the pursuit of vainglorious victories in battle was also a major high point in the series for me. But those are small blemishes on an otherwise outstanding 110 episode run. Oberstein clowning on Bittenfeld and the others for continuously losing to Yang, and then also justifiably criticizing the Kaiser for throwing lives away in the pursuit of vainglorious victories in battle was also a major high point in the series for me. I think I am gonna watch the New Thesis next and then the Gaiden episodes. threeagainstfour fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 1, 2023 |
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Sep 1, 2023 18:42
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I finally started watching this, a mere 1 out of 110 episodes in so far. I'm a huge star wars dork, and I'm a tepid fan of anime, with GITS flipping the switch for me. I had always heard of this as being the "anime star wars." For whatever reason I assumed this to have meant a sort of "Anime star wars", or less likely an "anime Star Wars" (which is what Visions is)... I was not quite prepared for this to be the sincere "Anime Star Wars" that it is. Like: - The FPA pilot suits are orange with white gear, straight out of A New Hope - The imperials are all clad in black dress, but with some added flair with their germanic gorgets - Imperial ship design also seems to like the whole bottom-biased hexagon aesthetic for their hallways - The imperials also have some sort of super powerful orb they keep hovering in space But also: - This is very much clasical anime, from the OP to the ED, the way they stage scenes, the sort of animation of the time - The tactical and strategic maps they like to show really work for me. The map room at NERV in NGE was hugely impactful for me, to see a sort of genesis of it is very satisfying - I love the more nautical influence of having captains decide things over a bowl of chowder in the galley - The design in the portrayal of fleets in formation for battle is surprisingly effective for me. Something about those dotted lines in arrangements bring a sort of intimidation I appreciate I will absolutely keep plugging away at this. However I already watch a bunch of different modern sci-fi series, and it can be difficult for me to watch a lot of anime. This seems like the sort of thing where it will take me a couple years to get through, but enjoy it at that slow pace I engage it with. As such I'll still mostly ignore this thread, but maybe I will form opinions to include later.
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Sep 17, 2023 09:05
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Absolutely interested in seeing more posts from you. Love seeing people go through logh for the first time!
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Sep 17, 2023 14:15
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always love it when the imperials also have a super powerful orb they hover around
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Sep 17, 2023 17:12
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Iserlohn is so much cooler than the death star, maybe one of my favorite single objects in scifi
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Sep 17, 2023 17:23
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Takes No Damage posted:Kircheis: History's Greatest Waifu? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNUQGRbdHlY
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Sep 18, 2023 15:02
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Jehde posted:I finally started watching this, a mere 1 out of 110 episodes in so far. In case you weren't aware, the movie My Conquest is the Sea of Stars takes place before the main OVA episodes. Nothing particularly plot critical but it is the canonical first meeting between Yang and Reinhard. Also another movie Overture to a New War retells the first 2 episodes in a more expanded (and effective IMO) way. Again nothing that will ruin the series for you if you skip it, just eps 1 and 2 but better. e: Also if you care about spoilers you should skip the Next Episode previews at the end of episodes. The narrator drops a few bombs throughout the series that a first time viewer may not appreciate. Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 23:35
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Never, ever watch the next episode previews. However, sometimes the episode continues through the credits, so don't just reflexively skip, either.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:47
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