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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Omnicrom posted:

You went to IBO, which is totally fair, but I was actually thinking more season one Code Geass. A good number of the middle episodes of that show were about sacrifices for the cause. A running theme was that actions have consequences, intended or otherwise, and do the ends justify the means? You could have easily ran with the same themes here, have brother guy ask what Yatagarasu has managed to do in the three years since he's been gone. He built a city for their people, what have you all done? Has going around as a guerrilla force, as a bunch of wanted terrorists and fugitives improved the plight of the Japanese? You think I sold out? Hell no, I'm doing the right thing for our people. Grow up and pay attention to the big picture, you can talk about being heroic rebels fighting to save the Japanese spirit but at the end of the day that isn't going to put a roof over anyone's head or food on anyone's table.

Maybe then you use that as a springboard in the next couple of episodes for an appeal either to idealism (say people need more than a nice house and groceries to "live") or more relevantly realism (you can say "autonomous" all you want, you still have no real power to do self-governance and your vaunted autonomy can be that can be yanked away the moment it's inconvenient for evil China). But nah, this is Kyoukai Senki in the show so far has erred on the side of "makes it easy!"

Yeah, the brother thing is IBO, but I did consider bringing up Code Geass for the zone, especially since it put a lot more focus on the moral dilemma, with Lelouch going "Oh, crap. If people can even possibly get what they want within the system, they'll be much less inclined towards violent revolution."

Thinking more about the episode, I think the directing and storyboarding comes into play, especially since the good episode had a different guy working on it, even though the scriptwriter was the same. In this episode, we had dialog about how people mostly had a better standard of living, but the way scenes were framed made it seem irrelevant. By contrast, the Americans were framed like the citizens of Tokyo genuinely did have good, happy lives, with the loss of national identity due to colonialism being the (too steep) price for that.

The behavior of the Chinese officials also highlights the failure to understand the angle Code Geass played with, because the Chinese government is treating this whole city as purely a method of getting one mediocre spy, when it obviously has much more potential than that, especially when their PR is in the toilet. A photogenic city of tomorrow means that, for a relatively small investment, they get to tell the world "Oh, no, this isn't an occupation, this is just providing humanitarian aid! Look at this city we helped set up.", in addition to keeping resentment more localized. If the average Ashita No Joe in a dead end life knows about the autonomous zone project, it's easier to sell mistreatment as just a few bad apples, rather than as the default.

But yeah. The show isn't interested in making things difficult for the heroes. Even the drone warfare setup mostly seems to exist to kick the can of "I actually killed a human being" down the road as far as possible.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
That said, it is at least true to life that extractive colonial powers' concessions to collaborators tend to be pretty half-assed. See also, the cities in Afghanistan. The quality of life there was much better than it was in the countryside, and they didn't have to deal with bombings, bandit gangs, and death squads every day of the week, but that didn't mean that they were treated well beyond a few enclaves for the elite - they were still riddled with disease and shortages of essential goods both despite and because of the vast amounts of money flowing into the country. Nation-building for the benefit of the occupied locals being an unintentionally grotesque scam at best and an intentionally grotesque scam at worst is extremely realistic - they are, after all, the constituency that the occupying power is least accountable to.

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

:jerkbag:

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink
I made a thing about Combattler V.

It's a show where a lot of children die. There are bi robots. God shows up. More children die. It has the yo yo episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDR8gZ-Mok&t=82s

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Schwarzwald posted:

I made a thing about Combattler V.

It's a show where a lot of children die. There are bi robots. God shows up. More children die. It has the yo yo episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDR8gZ-Mok&t=82s

Are they the giant robot kind? Or just regular ol' human sized bi robots? Cause that matters.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

tsob posted:

Are they the giant robot kind? Or just regular ol' human sized bi robots? Cause that matters.

It's just regular ol' human sized bi robots.


...at first

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
So the little bi robots grow up into big boi robots?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink
To be less glib, Garuda is a super early example of "if we make the main villain a hot teen and then make him have the hots for the hero (also a hot teen) then we'll get the teenybopper audience even though this is a robot show and girls don't normally like those." It's kind of interesting how Combattler V handles that both because it's a super early take on the concept and they haven't quite work the kinks out (so to speak) but also because Garuda is just kind of a terrible person. Like, an absolutely scum-of-the-earth raze-the-countryside military dictator who very much does kill children.

To be more glib, he gets prissy that his mom doesn't approve of him so he goes into the basement and assembles a giant robot version of himself so he can explode her. This saves the day because momma was most definitely kicking Combattler's rear end.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



So, Kyoukai Senki's worldbuilding got even less coherant with the last episode. They talk about how moving between regions is unthinkable these days, which would work a lot better if, you know, we hadn't seen the protagonist travel between regions in episode 2 without comment.

This episode's big plot is introduce the main Russian ace, who's supposed to be pretty good, but also a noble failson type, which you don't normally put together for a reason, you know? Or at least, you space out the plot points. You make the guy look like an incompetent, and then pull the curtain away Columbo style, or you have the ace mech pilot only to reveal he puts his pants on backwards to humanize him. Doing both at once undermines both, because the devastating talent seems less impressive if you know the guy is going to pratfall like a doofus in the next scene, and the goofiness doesn't say anything about his role in society if it can be papered over with "But he's really good at his job".

Worse, he's introduced playing off his childhood friend, which means you don't get to play up the contrast and get some mileage out of it, because she already knows his whole deal, and the talk about it is very "As you know, Bob" rather than feeling organic. Where Brad has been built up over most of the series, including his actual piloting being a big character beat, this guy just has "Also he's an ace pilot who can take on all our protagonists at once. Shut up." tossed in, despite his usual style being overwhelming the enemy with numbers. It also continues the "Our heroes never kill anyone. This has no negative consequences" streak we've been running with for 10 episodes now, which... I don't object to not killing per se, but at a certain point you need to commit to an aesthetic, and this show really hasn't. It makes the strings too visible.

Oh, and the main girl mech pilot made best friends with a random resistance member because they're both teen girls, with no further common ground mentioned. So, you know. That was riveting characterization to make her feel fully fleshed out.

(Saints above and fire below, but the main cast is dull.)

So, yeah. Show trundles on, a little less bland than the last two no-action episodes, but right in line with its usual.

RillAkBea
Oct 11, 2008

Following up on my original Macross watch-through, I watched Macross Frontier. I had watched it about halfway through before but I must have been watching while I was doing something else because I was surprised how little I remembered and how much I had remembered wrong. Like for some reason I had a bad image of Sheryl Nome in my head but really she's one of the best characters in the series.

Much like the original Macross, the pace is a little all over the place. After a great introduction, the series slows down a lot for worldbuilding and character stuff and nothing significant to the story happens until episode 13/14 then you don't really get any breaks for the rest of the series. The action is very good though, and makes great use of the musical elements of Macross. The final fight was especially enjoyable in that sense as it blasts an all-out medley of the best tracks of the series and has everybody doing their part which is always nice to see.

It does feel slightly like they cheated on the resolution of the love triangle though (in that they just didn't :geno:). But I think they did a great job of making both girls likeable and not completely dunking one in the trash halfway through like what happened with Minmay. Similarly, I think they did a good job of making Alto ambivalent to the girls affections without making him an rear end in a top hat. While his kabuki background is almost completely superfluous to the story, it does at least explain why he's not starstruck by Sheryl as not only has he probably met more famous people in his time, he was arguably more famous himself so he knows what celebrities are like and doesn't take them too seriously. Meanwhile Ranka is just some girl he met and objectively doesn't know that well so it makes sense that he wouldn't necessarily return her affections so quickly.

Overall I really enjoyed it despite its flaws (like the egregious use of early 2000's jiggle physics and that one time they tried to hand animate a big action scene :pwn:) and was ready for a little more Macross. So I tried watching an episode or two of Delta and oh god what did they do you Macross :ohdear:

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
if you didn't like the first episode of delta then you won't like the rest of it. it's all downhill from there.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

You should watch the Frontier movies.

RillAkBea
Oct 11, 2008

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

if you didn't like the first episode of delta then you won't like the rest of it. it's all downhill from there.

I definitely got that feeling. I was aware of the elements they introduce and I went in wanting to like it, but the idol stuff is played so straight it feels really out of place, like I was watching a completely different show.


Ethiser posted:

You should watch the Frontier movies.

That sounds like a very good idea!

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

RillAkBea posted:

Following up on my original Macross watch-through, I watched Macross Frontier. I had watched it about halfway through before but I must have been watching while I was doing something else because I was surprised how little I remembered and how much I had remembered wrong. Like for some reason I had a bad image of Sheryl Nome in my head but really she's one of the best characters in the series.

Much like the original Macross, the pace is a little all over the place. After a great introduction, the series slows down a lot for worldbuilding and character stuff and nothing significant to the story happens until episode 13/14 then you don't really get any breaks for the rest of the series. The action is very good though, and makes great use of the musical elements of Macross. The final fight was especially enjoyable in that sense as it blasts an all-out medley of the best tracks of the series and has everybody doing their part which is always nice to see.

It does feel slightly like they cheated on the resolution of the love triangle though (in that they just didn't :geno:). But I think they did a great job of making both girls likeable and not completely dunking one in the trash halfway through like what happened with Minmay. Similarly, I think they did a good job of making Alto ambivalent to the girls affections without making him an rear end in a top hat. While his kabuki background is almost completely superfluous to the story, it does at least explain why he's not starstruck by Sheryl as not only has he probably met more famous people in his time, he was arguably more famous himself so he knows what celebrities are like and doesn't take them too seriously. Meanwhile Ranka is just some girl he met and objectively doesn't know that well so it makes sense that he wouldn't necessarily return her affections so quickly.

Overall I really enjoyed it despite its flaws (like the egregious use of early 2000's jiggle physics and that one time they tried to hand animate a big action scene :pwn:) and was ready for a little more Macross. So I tried watching an episode or two of Delta and oh god what did they do you Macross :ohdear:

I will never understand how people come to this conclusion. Alto barely views or treats Ranka as a love interest at any point in the show, and it's almost all on her end. He flirts with Sheryl from almost the start though, and they're outright dating in the last couple of episodes. Including having romantic dinners in what seems to be a shared apartment, and multiple implications of sex. It's public knowledge even, because Alto's subordinates rib him about the relationship. Then, when Sheryl tries to break up with Alto before the finale because she's dying and thinks he may simply have been taking pity on her, he refuses to let her.

The "you're both my wings" scene seems to one of the major reasons that people think there's no resolution of the love triangle, but the entire scene is very obviously about friendship, even if you ignore that Ranka is talking about how both Alto and Sheryl are her friends only a few seconds beforehand. The other reason being that Ranka tells Sheryl she's not giving up on Alto in the closing seconds of the show. Again though, that's purely on Ranka's end. Alto himself never indicated he even saw her as a love interest; never mind that he has any interest in anyone other than Sheryl or intention to stop dating her. Alto only ever really saw Ranka as a little sister, and she never confronted him with her feelings, so he had no reason to ever make anything explicit beyond his love for Sheryl
.

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

if you didn't like the first episode of delta then you won't like the rest of it. it's all downhill from there.

I absolutely loved the first episode of Delta and I would also say it's all downhill from there; to the point I stopped watching altogether around episode 14 or 15, and had been pretty bored of the show since episode 6 or 7. The first episode is probably the strongest premiere episode in Macross, and honestly, probably one of my favorite first episodes of anything. It does a great job joining the idol and mecha aspects of the franchise into one cohesive whole by having battlefield idols whose "stage" is the entire battle, as they run about singing while using drones to help subdue and rescue people, occasionally interacting with the variable fighters; either by riding in or even on them as the variable fighters fight in the background. Which some might feel marginalizes the concept, but Hayato re-dresses that balance by using a variable fighter to literally dance to the beat of his idol love interest while fighting an enemy. The action brings all 3 elements of Macross: idols, mecha and romance into one synergistic whole that feels like a natural extension of what the franchise has been doing to that point.

Not only that, but the characters all seem dynamic and interesting. Hayato is a great gerwalk pilot, but kind of poo poo at flying and has some obvious daddy issues that inform his lack of motivation, Freyja has a big dream that contrasts Hayato's lack of motivation and her past ties into the major problem of the episode/show, Mirage is Max and Millia's grand-daughter, but their legacy seems to be weighing her down, and the lead idol, Mikumo absolutely reeks of Protodeviln. It even sets up some interesting side characters, like a Macross ship captain who is a martial arts expert and whose major claim to fame is always losing. How the gently caress is that going to play out? Is he going to do Macross ship melee combat, the way the Frontier captain used the ship to surf? How is "always losing" going to be his win? So many questions!

Then the show pretty much immediately ditches everything interesting it set up in the first episode. Dancing VFs? It happens maybe twice more for a few seconds apiece in the next couple of episodes, and never again from what I saw or heard from people who finished the show. The drones are hacked and the cast decide that makes them worthless. The idols are shot at while in a battle, so now they'll be in a bubble singing for a lot of the show when they're not performing regular shows. And so on. Hayato? Yeah, he had a dad once. I guess. Why do you care? Oh, he's a great fighter pilot now too. As long as Freyja is singing. He can just beat the guy who killed his mentor in the literal next episode, with no training, build up or pay off of any kind. And now he's the squad's best fighter. So good that he can take the place of that mentor as well as his own spot, so they don't need to add to the squad. He can also just ignore disease because he doesn't want to be affected by it, since it would make his girlfriend distraught if he got it. Mirage? Yeah, she's just a good pilot now. She trained off screen or something, shut up.

It all feels so lazy. My impression is that someone saw some backlash to the more extravagant elements of the premiere and forced Kawamori to jettison those elements, but he had nothing to replace them with. That, and the show was apparently supposed to be 13 episodes but got extended to 26, with, again, no real idea how to do so. The show has no satisfactory conclusion at the mid point either though, so I doubt it'd have had a great finale even if it wasn't extended.

The bigger problem, to me, is that Windermere declared open war at all in the show, because it meant that the action shifted from Walkure doing emergency response to civilian incidents with variable fighters backing them up, to an outright war, where the action was all taking place high in the sky, beyond the scope of Walkure to meaningfully affect beyong singing to buff the cast. Or rather, Hayato and to a lesser degree, Messer. Not only that, the idols became a secondary concern to the main thrust of the narrative, the war, but the story still wanted them to be the the solution, with no real clear way how that would happen
. Which resulted in a boring mess.

tsob fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Dec 14, 2021

Seemlar
Jun 18, 2002
I liked Delta well enough (probably the movie moreso than the series other than it omitting an arc I liked, I'd be tempted to recommend it to someone coming in new over the series completely) but even as someone positive on it on the whole, it's absolutely got a "Frontier b-side" vibe and if the idol aspect is where it loses you though, not much will overcome that.

RillAkBea
Oct 11, 2008

tsob posted:

I will never understand how people come to this conclusion. Alto barely views or treats Ranka as a love interest at any point in the show, and it's almost all on her end. He flirts with Sheryl from almost the start though, and they're outright dating in the last couple of episodes. Including having romantic dinners in what seems to be a shared apartment, and multiple implications of sex. It's public knowledge even, because Alto's subordinates rib him about the relationship. Then, when Sheryl tries to break up with Alto before the finale because she's dying and thinks he may simply have been taking pity on her, he refuses to let her..

This part I didn't take particularly seriously because it felt like a giant callback to basically the same thing happening in the original Macross with Hikaru and Minmay. Similar to the pineapple cake bit and I fell for that hook line and sinker. :v: Glad you're OK Ozma, your car is the only Macross Delta I need. :swoon:

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Reminder, Macross Plus is in theaters today only

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.
Isn't the Producer's Notes on the Frontier final that OT3 and they all wind up dating?

And as much as I'd like to watch Macross+ on a big screen, we've got omicron here.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Ardeem posted:

Isn't the Producer's Notes on the Frontier final that OT3 and they all wind up dating?

And as much as I'd like to watch Macross+ on a big screen, we've got omicron here.

I doubt it, given that the movies are much more explicit with Alto refusing Ranka's feelings. Which I presume is a result of the complaints over the ambiguity of the TV show finale. I could easily be wrong though, since I've never seen any such notes. I do vaguely recall an interview where Kawamori talked about not wanting to be too explicit in the TV show finale, wanting to keep the love triangle element vague or something. It could be that you're thinking of, maybe?

Nightmare Cinema
Apr 4, 2020

no.
Saw Macross Plus on the big screen.

It was hot. Couple scenes I don't remember from the OVA which is cool.

However, this looked like a blown-up SD upscale. Quite blurry/washed out black levels. The surround mix kinda made up for it.

No 'After, In The Dark' is a bummer. That and Bryan Cranston makes me prefer the OVA version.

Iserlohn
Nov 3, 2011

Watch out!

Here comes the third tactic.
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah! I thought the quality in my theater was off, too. And they started the movie late and skipped the message from Shoji Kawamori. Still, it was a great time! The visuals, music, and sound are perfect. I never watched the movie cut in full but the flow and transitions between scenes are really well done. I hope they can bring DYRL to theaters. I brought a friend with me and now they want to dive into more Macross.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

if you didn't like the first episode of delta then you won't like the rest of it. it's all downhill from there.

Yeah, if the Gundam 00 movie is Gundam trying to do Macross (and loving it up) Delta is Macross trying to do Gundam (and loving it up).

Speaking of loving up Macross, I watched the first episode of G-frame, the Chinese Japanese mech coproduction this season, and I can see why it's the least talked about of this season's absolute flood of giant robot shows. (Eight full sized mech anime this season, in addition to the Gundam short and a couple movies. Won't say the quality is always great, but the quantity is a standout.)

The basic premise is that humanity is at war with aliens (which isn't a big deal to the public yet) with its only hope being the pilots of uncovered ancient superweapons, which to some degree seem to pick their pilot. Thus the Earth's military holds... idol group auditions. And the pilots (or at least some of them, it was a bit unclear on one watch) perform as idols.

The protagonist gets rejected, manages to pilot a mech with her best friend (at minimum) and then gets recruited, which may have something to do with her sister's mysterious disappearance, her father's hatred of the futuristic technology he invented, and how a mech appeared out of nowhere to stop aliens that no-one else could fight off.

It feels a little like Diebuster in some ways, and like a lot of things trying to play Diebuster, it's pretty bad. (Unlike Diebuster, which is good.) You don't get a strong sense of the protagonists, unlike Nono and L'alc, the people in the setting doesn't seem to understand how it works, and there's less focus on how, hey, giving teenagers vast military and political power is maybe going to be a mess? So, yeah. Bailed after one episode.

Going on to the shows I haven't quit, Kyoukai Senki had another no-combat episode. Unlike Iron Blooded Orphans, this hasn't been a show-long structure, with non-combat episodes setting up for fights and fights leading into the new situations for non-combat episodes. Instead, we get multiple episodes which are basically standalone, only thematically connected with each other, and not doing much to build a larger narrative. Which makes it weird how the episodes don't have much interesting going on as standalones either. When the one big draw you have is hand drawn mech fights, whole episodes without mech fights feels like an odd choice.

Meanwhile, Rumble Garanndoll returned to the relationship between Hosomichi and Rin, which definitely feels more interesting than the arcs for the other major characters. There's actual examination of his past, and why he's messed up the way he is, playing against someone who genuinely wants to know him rather than the mask he wears. Much more interesting than seeing him try to "solve" his relationships to get results.

chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Dec 15, 2021

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
So one of my coworkers is in his forties and remembers having several mecha toys in the 70s, but we're trying to track down a particular one.

We already figured out that he had a Mazinger toy, but he swears that he had a combining mecha toy that predates Voltron. Are there any notable combining mecha toys from the mid to late 70s that got sold in North America or is he hitting the Mandela Effect? There's probably some Tomino or Go Nagai design from that era that ticks the box but I'm drawing a blank for combiners.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Arc Hammer posted:

So one of my coworkers is in his forties and remembers having several mecha toys in the 70s, but we're trying to track down a particular one.

We already figured out that he had a Mazinger toy, but he swears that he had a combining mecha toy that predates Voltron. Are there any notable combining mecha toys from the mid to late 70s that got sold in North America or is he hitting the Mandela Effect? There's probably some Tomino or Go Nagai design from that era that ticks the box but I'm drawing a blank for combiners.

Combattler and Voltes both predate Golion, so if he got an import or something, it's quite possible.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE
Shogun Warriors notably had Combattler and Voltes.

SpikeMcclane
Sep 11, 2005

You want the story?
I'll spin it for you quick...
All sorts of stuff made it over in small numbers, so there's several it could be. Technically, there was even an imported release of golion before Voltron existed.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Well I showed him both and he confirmed he had a combattler and a voltes as well as a lot of the other Shogun Warriors toys.

Also several stories about spring loaded weapons hurting siblings.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Well Sakugan wrapped with a "to be continued, assuming we get another season but we're not betting on it so whatever" which is a little bit disappointing because I actually like the show that Sakugan turned into. On the other hand, I'm not exactly going to really recommend it nor my going to especially begrudge anyone who jumped ship, doubly so because the show resolutely answered absolutely none of the ongoing setting mysteries except maybe half of one of them that nobody was really asking because the thing it answers is already an accepted anime thing. Turns out super genius girl Memenpu was a genetically engineered super baby, which along with making her super intelligent is also the reason why she has an eidetic memory, and also why she survived being dunked in hyper electro nuclear waste in episode five: her body is literally unaffected by it. It also indirectly explains why there isn't a mother in their family (Gagamber adopted her), and what the weird dream she had of him dying was (it was actually a memory from her infancy). The show also blatantly says that whatever happened also involved Gagamber's memory being altered, which is why he doesn't remember apparently dying and why his memory differs from Zackletu's.

Literally every single other ongoing question, though? Unexplained. What's going on with the setting? Why does humanity live in some big underground world? How did Gagamber's old partner die? What actually is the place from Memenpu's dream? What are the Kaiju? Why did they act weird in the first couple of episodes? Who actually is Urorop? What's up with the map pendant, why did Memenpu get one, and why does the villain girl have one ? What do the bad guys actually want? How on the level is the sketchy government guy? What's up with the towers and the princesses? What the heck even is anima actually? How did Memenpu and Gagamber meet? Why exactly were Memenpu and her cadre of genetically engineered rainbow children created and why do the bad guys think they all need to died to save humanity? Why is it noteworthy that Memenpu is "free" and has a different hair color? I have no problem the show leaving some loose ends, and to bend over backwards and be fair it's quite possible to contrive a couple of hypothetical explanations for a couple of those questions you still have to provide enough or the show was unsatisfying and here we are. Hell, I don't think the guy positioned as the main villain of the series got a NAME.

Honestly this is a perfect example of "less than the sum of its parts", the show had a lot of good episodes and good characters and even managed to finagle a theme and carry it through pretty well, but man oh man did the show need to be two cours.

Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Dec 25, 2021

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

lol


https://twitter.com/showgate_inc/status/1474957553956421637?s=21


lmao

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Okay now I agree with the poster that said eureka seven is unique in it's creators attempts to desecrate it.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

For gently caress's sake just kill it already

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

No, i wanna see how far they can take it

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

Omnicrom posted:

Sakugan stuff

This is all fair criticism, though one thing I'll add they didn't super advertise about the show is that it's adapting a novel series that seems to still be ongoing, so it was less the anime team baiting for a second season and more the fact finishing it in one go was just never on the table.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Justin_Brett posted:

This is all fair criticism, though one thing I'll add they didn't super advertise about the show is that it's adapting a novel series that seems to still be ongoing, so it was less the anime team baiting for a second season and more the fact finishing it in one go was just never on the table.

I can confirm I did not know that, but I'm also not seeing anything that says that Sakugan was more than one novel, so I don't know. And if that is true and more novels come then I would definitely like another season of it, again I dig (ha) the hell out of what the show became.

Meanwhile Rumble Garanndoll had a barnburner of the finale. In one episode we got a surprisingly thoughtful payoff for the protagonist, some remarkably strong character stuff from the commander dude that really humanized someone who had been to that point primarily been a meta-joke about a particular character type, some hype super robot action, a simple and straightforward statement of purpose for the show, and a final reconciliation scene with the antagonists that put a much more tragic spin on their motives.

For a show about giant otaku robots fighting giant traditional Japanese motif robots, the whole thing was surprisingly subtle and thoughtful about most of the things it did. The show closed out with high-minded idealism about the value of geek properties, but I can say was genuinely surprised by what idealistic stands the show chose to take.

Honestly? I think I'm gonna toss it my vote for Mecha anime of the year.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Omnicrom posted:

I can confirm I did not know that, but I'm also not seeing anything that says that Sakugan was more than one novel, so I don't know. And if that is true and more novels come then I would definitely like another season of it, again I dig (ha) the hell out of what the show became.

Meanwhile Rumble Garanndoll had a barnburner of the finale. In one episode we got a surprisingly thoughtful payoff for the protagonist, some remarkably strong character stuff from the commander dude that really humanized someone who had been to that point primarily been a meta-joke about a particular character type, some hype super robot action, a simple and straightforward statement of purpose for the show, and a final reconciliation scene with the antagonists that put a much more tragic spin on their motives.

For a show about giant otaku robots fighting giant traditional Japanese motif robots, the whole thing was surprisingly subtle and thoughtful about most of the things it did. The show closed out with high-minded idealism about the value of geek properties, but I can say was genuinely surprised by what idealistic stands the show chose to take.

Honestly? I think I'm gonna toss it my vote for Mecha anime of the year.

I like Garanndoll, but looking at the crop of mech anime this year, I can't give it the gold.

For Garrandoll, Hosomichi and Rin had a much stronger dynamic than he did with the other girls, which isn't bad, but it is awkward when Rin gets sidelined for half the show. She's the only one who actually pokes at him and wants to understand him rather than just wanting things from him, which means their arcs don't make him actually grow, which is awkward with how the show wants to play things like the three relationships are equal in importance.

The debt subplot, meanwhile, never gets a clear explanation or resolution. It's just... there, which makes everything more awkward.

Meanwhile, depending on your tastes, there's 86 and Dynazenon for TV, with Evangelion and Hathaway for movies, and all of them just hit their marks much harder than this, with fewer obvious slip-ups. It's an enjoyable show, but not the best mecha content of the year.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

Dynazenon's mecha stuff was almost entirely detrimental to my enjoyment of the show and i would be casting my vote for Back Arrow instead

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



dogsicle posted:

Dynazenon's mecha stuff was almost entirely detrimental to my enjoyment of the show and i would be casting my vote for Back Arrow instead

Back Arrow doesn't have the something beam or a scene where the mech pilot can only swing his mech's arms wildly because he skipped pilot training to work at a convenience store.

Advantage: Dynazenon.

(Also, unlike Back Arrow, Dynazenon is good.)

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Fair points all, though I am on record stating that I think Dynazenon is actually just terrible. I think it's a 3.5/10 anime, maybe 4/10 at best if I'm feeling extremely generous. I will always put Back Arrow over it, sagging middle third and all. As for 86, you are correct that it is genuinely excellent, but I personally liked Garandoll more. Personal preference and all that jazz.

Under the hand I'm going to have to retract my previous statement, because yeah Eva is better. To be completely frank I forgot Eva was this year, part of this is the breakdown of linear time in the plague years but it's also because in my mind I keep lumping it together with the other franchise nostalgia films from last year along. When I think of 3+1 I always remember it alongside the genuinely amazing Searching for Ojamajo Doremi and that horrible loving Digimon thing. And related to that, I genuinely hate ranking multi-film series at all until they are all out so I'm not going to give a grade to Hathaway until all of it is viewable.

So, to revise my previous statement, of the Mecha anime that aired on television in the year 2021 I will indicate that my favorite was Rumble Garanndoll.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

chiasaur11 posted:

Back Arrow doesn't have the something beam or a scene where the mech pilot can only swing his mech's arms wildly because he skipped pilot training to work at a convenience store.

Advantage: Dynazenon.

(Also, unlike Back Arrow, Dynazenon is good.)

the gags like that are about the only redeeming parts to me, aside from having a decent climax fight and the ultimate combine sequence being nice to see once. this could very well be what Gridman was like too, i only remember the amazing Heart fight and how it having narrower character focus meant it better stuck the landing. otherwise it was just a bunch of miserable uninteresting fights in a show where more time could've easily gone to the underserved characters. Back Arrow being more standard lets it better get away with that sort of weekly battle, but it still was regularly giving dynamic action and fun escalations of the mech concept even under that pressure.

in weighing the show with better construction that significantly frustrated me and the simple but immensely enjoyable fireworks show, the latter just connected much more to my emotional viewing experience so it gained the edge.

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wielder
Feb 16, 2008

"You had best not do that, Avatar!"
I'd recommend Back Arrow because it really was a good old fun time every week. There's pros and cons in retrospect, depending on your perspective and expectations, but that statement still remains true for me. They even did the evolving OP thing for the first half and I appreciate such gimmicks.

I'd agree that 86 was the actual best mecha show. I'm just very tsundere about it. Maybe I'll use my vacation days to catch up (plus they did a very Geass S1 thing and delayed the last two eps).

Which reminds me...did Kyoukai Senki do anything interesting lately other than having good 2D mecha fights? I guess not.

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