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Mr. Nice! posted:If I take it I'm going to fail. If I fail it costs another $1000 to retake it. If I defer, I don't have a failure and it costs me $200. I don't wanna walk in and wing it to the tune of $800. I'm nowhere near ready, and a week's time isn't enough to get me in good enough shape to write my essays and pass the MC with certainty. My friend bailed at the last minute too and of course he never got barred. If you want/need to be licensed, you should take every shot you have. If you don't actually need it, just bail on it entirely and stop wasting your time.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:00
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Mr. Nice! posted:If I take it I'm going to fail. If I fail it costs another $1000 to retake it. If I defer, I don't have a failure and it costs me $200. I don't wanna walk in and wing it to the tune of $800. I'm nowhere near ready, and a week's time isn't enough to get me in good enough shape to write my essays and pass the MC with certainty. I took the NY and NJ bars simultaneously. For the NY bar, I took one BarBri practice essay (which they returned looking like a red sea) and most of the multiple choice Q's in the book, but nothing else. I thought the NJ bar would be like NY's and literally did not know it was 100% essays until walking into the room. I certainly didn't know a single thing about NJ legal differences from NY or, for that matter, NY's legal differences from anything else. I passed both. If you're doing fine on the multiple choice and know how to write an essay it's not rocket science. Remember, whether you know what the answer to the essay topic should be doesn't matter nearly as much as it should as long as your bullshit is framed as correct legal reasoning.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:38
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Pook Good Mook posted:By design 10-20% have to fail every test. Gosh I wish we had that. This year we had a failure rate of around 70%, for some places it even reached 85%. I was wait listed to be admitted in Oct/Nov. but so many people didn't pass I'm now booked for this month.
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Jul 16, 2017 10:53
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I thought the bar exam was done after I did the part where you write about the fake case. I was severely deflated when they came back out with the second fake case. I also passed the bar and failed the MPRE right afterward.
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Jul 16, 2017 12:06
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I winged the bar. You'll be fine.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:38
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Mr Nice: you don't want to be a lawyer anyway by your own admission. I think you should eventually get barred, but only you know if you can afford a week of intense study and $800 to try the bar now. If $800 is an incredible hardship to you, then you should save the money. If it's not, you should study and try. No matter what, you should do whatever best fits your life plans, and none of us internet strangers can know what that is (except me, because I'm the best). I'm not one of those people who could have learned the bar in a week, or winged it. My law school basically did bar prep for 3 years, and then I studied hard for a month prior to and I only just passed. If I were in your shoes I would likely fail. Although I did great on the mpre and I only listened to a 4 hour lecture while driving what the gently caress is wrong with you unethical bastards? (1) Don't steal from your clients, (2) don't sleep with your clients, (3) if you don't know if it's ethical, the answer is whatever allows the lawyer to make the most money. Hot Dog Day #91 fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 14:01
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If you never want to be a lawyer, don't take the bar. All you will get for passing is a lifetime of paying to maintain your license. I pay a $400 professional tax and $170 to the ethics board each year. That doesn't count cost of CLEs.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:46
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2017 16:07
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Definitely not a jokester or an ethicist.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:22
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2017 16:25
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Just going to leave this here - for whatever reason, I can't c/p quotes from the article, but it's depressing and sad and paints a picture of the loneliness that pervades big law. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/business/lawyers-addiction-mental-health.html
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Jul 16, 2017 17:29
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Rolled Cabbage posted:Gosh I wish we had that. This year we had a failure rate of around 70%, for some places it even reached 85%. I was wait listed to be admitted in Oct/Nov. but so many people didn't pass I'm now booked for this month. What test is this for?
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Jul 16, 2017 18:06
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Mr Nice: you don't want to be a lawyer anyway by your own admission. I think you should eventually get barred, but only you know if you can afford a week of intense study and $800 to try the bar now. If $800 is an incredible hardship to you, then you should save the money. If it's not, you should study and try. I took the LSAT without any prep and basically winged most of my law school classes. I'm going to run through some more stuff today and tomorrow, but unless I'm feeling better about my chances by mid week, I'm going to defer. The $800 saved isn't going to break the bank one way or another, but it's still the cost of a plane ticket somewhere nice so I'd rather save it if I can. Look Sir Droids posted:If you never want to be a lawyer, don't take the bar. All you will get for passing is a lifetime of paying to maintain your license. I pay a $400 professional tax and $170 to the ethics board each year. That doesn't count cost of CLEs. I am going to do some practicing, but not much. I'm going to continue what I'm doing now, that is pro bono work for indigent vets. The difference is I'll be actually filing and appearing instead of just doing paralegal type poo poo. I'm going to get my VA approval taken care of as well so I can appear for appellate cases that have gone far enough to need an attorney. Those come with statutory fees, so I'll get paid something eventually. I don't intend on working 60+ hours a week trying to bill out insane hours or anything like that. Even if I was offered a full time position somewhere, I'd have to give it serious thought as to whether I would want to do that or not. Ultimately, I'm in a situation of my own creation. Yes there was a large delay in getting prep materials because of the VA & barbri, but that's just as much my fault for pushing for an alternative sooner. Basically, short of some perfect job that just tickles my fancy, I'm just going to end up in grad school next year while doing part time legal work.
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Jul 16, 2017 18:11
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My opinion (I know you all asked and appreciate it) is that you can afford to 100% wing essays, but only if you aren't winging it on the MBE. For the MBE you just have to know the rules, whereas on essays you can guesstimate the appropriate law. Try taking the bar on Texas, we have an additional Procedure and Evidence component and it's free points if you put a few hours into it the day before.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:31
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A section of the florida stuff always goes over florida professional responsibility which boils down to don't gently caress your clients and keep track of/don't gently caress around with your iota accounts. I don't know what other states do, but in FL all client trust accounts are required to be set up as interest bearing accounts with the interest payable to the Florida Bar. There are regular accounting rules and poo poo that go along with it, but it all boils down to don't take money out of the trust that you shouldn't, and keep your loving records. My issue is I'm not good enough on the MC right now to pass. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do it in a week. I'm just trying to keep realistic expectations.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:38
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Vox Nihili posted:Biglaw lateral update: had my secretary make me a binder on day 1, still in the office at this very moment on day 2. update #2: billed 55 hours week 1, lol
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Jul 16, 2017 20:14
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Vox Nihili posted:update #2: billed 55 hours week 1, lol Hope you spent your "off time" with "fun" activities, like going to "happy" hour with your coworkers/"friends"
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Jul 16, 2017 21:20
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disjoe posted:My opinion (I know you all asked and appreciate it) is that you can afford to 100% wing essays, but only if you aren't winging it on the MBE. For the MBE you just have to know the rules, whereas on essays you can guesstimate the appropriate law. Glad to hear someone endorse my plan for the Procedure and Evidence tests.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:48
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Mr. Nice! posted:A section of the florida stuff always goes over florida professional responsibility which boils down to don't gently caress your clients and keep track of/don't gently caress around with your iota accounts. Are you taking barbri practice tests or past tests? Barbri ones are harder than live.
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Jul 16, 2017 22:06
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Make tacos not law
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Jul 16, 2017 22:33
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Meatbag Esq. posted:Are you taking barbri practice tests or past tests? Barbri ones are harder than live. Themis practice tests. I should pull up an actual MBE set.
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Jul 17, 2017 00:16
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Vox Nihili posted:update #2: billed 55 hours week 1, lol Enjoy the time where you’re easing into it.
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Jul 17, 2017 08:40
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Pook Good Mook posted:What test is this for? England and Wales advocates exams. I think the final fail rate is supposed to be about 20%-50% (it's multipaper and we get resits so we can keep good passes), and you get a good year where this actually happens. But then they decide too many people passed and change the exams, this year they seem to have really gone over the top.
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Jul 17, 2017 09:39
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Flutieflakes017 posted:Where in Asia? I'm taking a dude's trip to West China then working our way to HK and Macau. Oh hey, come hang with HKgoons while you're here. It's a pretty friendly community. Drop me a PM if interested.
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Jul 17, 2017 10:55
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/business/lawyers-addiction-mental-health.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share For everyone considering going to law school. To me, this part stood out for eloquently stating why, even if you are an established, "good" lawyer, this profession can still be brutal and unsatisfying: “Being a surgeon is stressful, for instance — but not in the same way. It would be like having another surgeon across the table from you trying to undo your operation. In law, you are financially rewarded for being hostile.”
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Jul 17, 2017 13:45
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Phil Moscowitz posted:“It would be like having another surgeon across the table from you trying to undo your operation.” This would be badass to watch.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:24
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blarzgh posted:This would be badass to watch. 1v1 appendectomy 5m no carotid
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Jul 17, 2017 14:49
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Phil Moscowitz posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/business/lawyers-addiction-mental-health.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share I see this article circulating so widely and personally resonating with so many lawyers and I have to think it's because but for the death this guy's life superficially looks like the pinnacle of what lawyer culture tells you you should be striving to be.
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Jul 17, 2017 15:08
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Litigation is a kind of ball-kicking contest. Every morning, I get up and put on a grey wool suit and go to work planning to kick some poor bastard right in the balls. And that poor bastard got up and put on his grey wool suit and went to work planning to kick me in the balls. I have my good witnesses and good documents and good law. His job is to kick them right in the balls. He has his good witnesses and good documents and good law. My job is to kick them right in the balls. I have clever plans. He has clever plans. I have contingencies and surprises. So does he. I say gently caress him. He says gently caress me. Sometimes we're friendly with each other and smile and say nice things and talk about our kids while we kick each other in the balls. Sometimes, he's a sonuvabitch, and I can't wait to kick his balls. Sometimes, I suggest that he leave me out of it and try kicking my co-defendant's balls. Sometimes, I hold him down, and my co-defendant does the kicking. Balls are kicked, and we don't don't stop until a Judge, a Jury or a Mediator makes us to stop. And then we appeal.
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Jul 17, 2017 15:16
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This week marks my 9 month anniversary of saying "gently caress it" to the lovely Vancouver private legal scene and moving to the Canadian arctic to work in the public sector. I spent the last 5 years on serial contracts at a dead-end job that caused me serious depression and burgeoning alcohol issues. I ended up getting laid off and, on a whim, decided to accept a permanent job up here. I now make 2x as much money, only work 37.5h a week, and I have a job I love with great co-workers and an interesting caseload. No more stress, no more anxiety, no more drinking. It's p great. AMA about my tiny hosed up arctic public sector practice.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:50
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do you live in an igloo and if not, why not
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Jul 17, 2017 17:07
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mastershakeman posted:do you live in an igloo and if not, why not Global warming's a bitch
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Jul 17, 2017 17:11
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So the VA will pay for me to retake the test but may not pay to defer. I may actually save money if I fail the test. I tried some online MBE (non-themis) to see where I was on those, and I got 70% on my first run, so maybe I'm not in as bad of shape as I thought.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:21
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Mr. Nice! posted:So the VA will pay for me to retake the test but may not pay to defer. I may actually save money if I fail the test. Noooooo! Let the hate and fear consume you!
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Jul 17, 2017 17:23
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mastershakeman posted:do you live in an igloo and if not, why not I live in a nice new apartment building because the previous one burned to the ground. It's much bigger and better equipped than my old lovely Vancouver studio (in-suite laundry! Dishwasher! A full-size indoor storage room!). It's also government owned and subsidized and rent is deducted form my salary so I don't need to deal with a lovely landlord. Serfdom has its perks. And at the end of the month, rent is 10$/mo cheaper than what I was paying in Vancouver.  The only downside is that it's a 25 minute walk to the office. This is fine during the summer when it's around 10C out. But in the -60C winters, it's a bit rough. Luckily the barge with the car I bought earlier this year is arriving this week after waiting 3 months. So this upcoming winter will be more tolerable.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:49
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Mr. Nice! posted:So the VA will pay for me to retake the test but may not pay to defer. I may actually save money if I fail the test. The more multiple choice questions I do the more I'm realizing that basic competence will give you around 50% and after that the real trick is narrowing down the choices so you can coin-flip the other 50%. I don't have any amateur insight into the essays, that poo poo sucks.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:05
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Pook Good Mook posted:The more multiple choice questions I do the more I'm realizing that basic competence will give you around 50% and after that the real trick is narrowing down the choices so you can coin-flip the other 50%. BUT HOW CAN YOU PASS IF YOU DON'T KNOW EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY OF THE ARTICLE 2 MERCHANTS' CONFIRMATORY MEMO EXCEPTION Realtalk on essays: go through the Barbri writing program for each topic. Read the question carefully, think about what the likely answer is, maybe write out an outline. Turn to the suggested answer. Highlight the rules of law. Try to learn what you highlighted and nothing else. The rules of law in that book, if you vaguely know them, are enough to get you a passing score on the essays. disjoe fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 20:33
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disjoe posted:BUT HOW CAN YOU PASS IF YOU DON'T KNOW EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY OF THE ARTICLE 2 MERCHANTS' CONFIRMATORY MEMO EXCEPTION Real question to realtalk: When we're talking about the rules of law, I'm guessing that the grader is less concerned with specific wording than they are about the principle right? For example in negligence questions I just can't imagine they want us to go through the academic difference between "foreseeable intervening force" vs. "unforeseeable result" when the ultimate question is really just reasonably foreseeable outcomes. Outside of maybe Con-law, the specific wording can't be the deciding factor can it? And for the record, Merchant's Confirmatory Memo is my bitch.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:57
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Pook Good Mook posted:Real question to realtalk: When we're talking about the rules of law, I'm guessing that the grader is less concerned with specific wording than they are about the principle right? I can only speak for Texas. They never release grading rubrics for essays but based on the available materials I think you're right. Nevertheless, if you have the time (and at this point no one does), it helps to memorize answers to commonly asked questions both to save time and to avoid going blank on exam day. My order of priority when studying for essay questions (TIME MANAGEMENT AND EFFECTIVE LEGAL WRITING ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SUBSTANCE): General idea of answers in Barbri writing program --> memorize common elements of answers in Barbri writing program --> general idea of issues Barbri lecturer says are important --> drink --> general idea of other material from lectures YMMV
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Jul 17, 2017 21:24
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Pook Good Mook posted:Real question to realtalk: When we're talking about the rules of law, I'm guessing that the grader is less concerned with specific wording than they are about the principle right? Tennessee here. You only find out anything about your bar score if you failed, but I think it's the same here. Just make sure to use consistent terminology within your answer. Concepts are more important than specific magic words except for things that are very specific (like piercing the corporate veil or something, maybe). What I remember most about bar prep wasn't memorizing specific things, it was getting concepts down where I wouldn't be caught flat footed on anything and then writing an answer fast enough so I didn't run out of time or have to rush writing the answer for a later question. It was 13 questions I think in 6 hrs, so I just drilled myself to get where I could read the question and write a complete answer in 20 minutes. I am not at all hot poo poo and I never had any real doubt that I passed when I woke up the next day with a clear head. To this day I believe I had good enough essays on at least 12 of the 13 questions to amount to it being correct. 13 of 13 if I did a good enough job bullshitting my way through that child support question I had not idea on because I had made a strategic decision to not study that topic hard.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:33
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