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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Privateer didn't want to risk pissing people off who had bought fifteen Mad Dogs is the problem they added a pt to the berserker to say "see? We made both of them bad now  "
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Dec 23, 2016 20:07
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You can box spam and just walk into people with your second line of jacks and buy attacks instead of charging. Even if you charge the feat only does 'nothing' on the charge attack, your other attacks are still boosted damage, which can be your weaker weapon in the case of juggernauts or whatever that aren't packing doubles of the same weapon. Box spam usually allows you to do that pretty comfortably, it's not that hard. The berserker chassis change is reaaaally weird though and definitely bad.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:12
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rydiafan posted:When MK3 dropped I was of the opinion that battle boar negated the gorx. Having played 50-some games with Arkadius since then, I've changed my mind. The +1 str and pain response makes a gorax a far better beast against high armor targets, and that's what exists right now. Overtake and berserk is nice, but I'm not seeing enough infantry to justify it. Usually what I do see can be handled with the road hog and primal shock. I've played Arkadius twice now and seen the light. I feel weird about having zero pathfinder though. How do you deal with that?
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Dec 23, 2016 20:17
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People complaining about the karchev nerf need to just accept that having 16 heavies on the board was never OK. He's still perfectly good. Khador is still really good. It's gonna be OK. albany academy posted:they added a pt to the berserker to say "see? We made both of them bad now I feel like mr. Berserker needs 1 more point of mat or murderous or something like that to make him a lil better, but also think that heavies really shouldn't be less than 10 pts ever, for any reason, so i dunno. E: i'd also argue unstable can be a benefit. Having a nearly 8" pow14 blast is sweet. It'd be a lot better if you could choose to fail your unstable check. The Duchess Smackarse fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 21:31
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Khador still has probably the deepest roster of really good units and y'all should try fielding more of those .
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Dec 23, 2016 21:33
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S.J. posted:You can box spam and just walk into people with your second line of jacks and buy attacks instead of charging. Even if you charge the feat only does 'nothing' on the charge attack, your other attacks are still boosted damage, which can be your weaker weapon in the case of juggernauts or whatever that aren't packing doubles of the same weapon. Box spam usually allows you to do that pretty comfortably, it's not that hard. The berserker chassis change is reaaaally weird though and definitely bad. Just walk into people with your mighty speed 4 warjacks
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Dec 23, 2016 21:36
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chutche2 posted:Just walk into people with your mighty speed 4 warjacks List of khador warcasters that can speed up warjacks: Vlad1 Vlad2 Vlad3 Butcher2 Butcher3 Irusk1 Irusk2 Sorscha1 Sorscha2 Old witch Harkevich Malakov2 Kozlov Strakhov Karchev
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Dec 23, 2016 21:42
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chutche2 posted:Just walk into people with your mighty speed 4 warjacks Yes, after they come into you. That list does not need to hit first to win. Unless you're suggesting your opponent is just going to not walk into range to contest zones ever or something? I know it's your gimmick, but stop being disingenuous. S.J. fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 21:42
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Jimmy Hats posted:People complaining about the karchev nerf need to just accept that having 16 heavies on the board was never OK. He's still perfectly good. Khador is still really good. It's gonna be OK. Pretty much. They just don't feel worth the points, especially compared to the marauder.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:57
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S.J. posted:Yes, after they come into you. That list does not need to hit first to win. Unless you're suggesting your opponent is just going to not walk into range to contest zones ever or something? I know it's your gimmick, but stop being disingenuous. The strength of MdoW2 was being on scenario first with a poo poo load of jacks. The SPD thing was definitely important to how well it performed at tournies.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:59
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Jimmy Hats posted:List of khador warcasters that can speed up warjacks: He was talking about karchev. Karchev only speeds jacks up after they've started killing already.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:59
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albany academy posted:The strength of MdoW2 was being on scenario first with a poo poo load of jacks. The SPD thing was definitely important to how well it performed at tournies. That was a huge part of the reason why it was dominating every scenario it played into. It can still get into scenarios quickly, just not with every jack in the list at the same time. Plus it still has counter-charge, it just has to actually commit resources to try and get an alpha rather than take a meaningless point of damage while Karchev remains untouchable.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:01
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Privateer didn't want to risk pissing people off who had bought fifteen Mad Dogs is the problem Yeah but I don't see how they accomplished that
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Dec 23, 2016 22:02
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chutche2 posted:He was talking about karchev. Karchev only speeds jacks up after they've started killing already. Well with counter charge on everything your jacks are a turn a head in terms of where they threaten
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Dec 23, 2016 22:06
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And with Caine 2 and Madrak 2 nerfs, that leaves lists open to more comfortably taking infantry than before, so his actual threat extension spell might end up getting some use with widowmakers.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:10
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Karchevs still got tricks for sure, it's just that fleet for jury rigged definitely did a lot to neuter MDoW2 in itself, as it relied on that easy button of having heavy jacks run 12" and threaten counter charge 18" on the first turn.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:14
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chutche2 posted:He was talking about karchev. Karchev only speeds jacks up after they've started killing already. Road to war procs off any kill, not just battlegroup. Widowmakers are 2 points each.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:16
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S.J. posted:You can box spam and just walk into people with your second line of jacks and buy attacks instead of charging. Even if you charge the feat only does 'nothing' on the charge attack, your other attacks are still boosted damage, which can be your weaker weapon in the case of juggernauts or whatever that aren't packing doubles of the same weapon. Box spam usually allows you to do that pretty comfortably, it's not that hard. The berserker chassis change is reaaaally weird though and definitely bad. did they nerf p butcher or is karchev feat just his but worse in every way
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Dec 23, 2016 22:18
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I feel that without a hit buff anymore he's just not very good. He doesn't really have a feat, and mat 7 isn't exactly an auto hit. It's nice but you're still missing vs def 13+ often enough for it to matter. I definitely rank him behind butcher1, strakhov, and vlad1 for running jacks. Butcher1 with full throttle and feat can make some devastating battlegroups even if they don't have threat extenders. Free charges is really good for focus efficiency with large battlegroups, which is something I've found karchev really needs. Counter charge isn't that hard to work around. And he does combined arms incredibly well, which karchev doesn't. Butcher1 can take 4 or 5 jacks and then also be buffing infantry. And with 14 point destroyers, I might put harkevich ahead of him too. I've been really enjoying him because of mobility and the +arm feat, cheap destroyers is fantastic for him to get off those feat shots. Broadsides is still mainly a trap spell but it can work if you don't need mobility on a given turn. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 22:19
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I AM THE MOON posted:did they nerf p butcher or is karchev feat just his but worse in every way Karchev's feat also gives magic weapons but yeah
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Dec 23, 2016 22:19
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The huge difference, of course, being that butcher1 doesnt support his jacks for poo poo. Anyways karchev is still really good, you guys. Road to war is strong as gently caress in a faction that loves to slam/bulldoze poo poo. Never mind jumpstart, battlecharged, and eruption.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:24
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Jimmy Hats posted:The huge difference, of course, being that butcher1 doesnt support his jacks for poo poo. You're right, full throttle, vengeful, and an additional damage die isn't supporting jacks for poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:26
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chutche2 posted:You're right, full throttle, vengeful, and an additional damage die isn't supporting jacks for poo poo. Full throttle costs 3 on a 6 focus caster with 3 upkeeps.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:32
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I think Karchev's pretty bad now (at least in relation to the multitude of other casters Khador can field) and they didn't need to hit him AND the berzerker chassis but I also agree that Khador's perfectly fine without them. Irusk 2 got off largely unscathed, and Khador's non-zerker jacks are still mostly decent to really, really amazing. Would've been nice to see a couple of the weaker casters get something, or some of the heavy infantry, but on the whole it's not like there's a lack of good things to field.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:35
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chutche2 posted:You're right, full throttle, vengeful, and an additional damage die isn't supporting jacks for poo poo. One of those spells is jack support, the feat is probably used better with a mix of things and getting maximum damage out guns and melee in the same turn.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:36
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S.J. posted:One of those spells is jack support, the feat is probably used better with a mix of things and getting maximum damage out guns and melee in the same turn. Yes, it is better with a mix of things. The khador all jack list is dead. We need to look at options that can go jack-heavy while bringing some infantry and support along, and Karchev isn't the caster that does that. Also, if you're not casting vengeful on a jack, what exactly are you casting it on? chutche2 fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 22:37
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I want to live in a world where butcher1 just runs like 6 units of WGI. Pow15 weapon masters for 1 pt yes please.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:40
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chutche2 posted:Also, if you're not casting vengeful on a jack, what exactly are you casting it on? A Drakhun or Butcher. Or nothing at all because he's pretty focus strapped a lot of the time.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:44
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People who were shadow banned on the PP forums have begun to figure out that the PP forums have shadow banning, and it's delightful.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:16
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I assume it was the most toxic shitheads anyways?
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Dec 23, 2016 23:20
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chutche2 posted:Yes, it is better with a mix of things. Harkevich marauder spam actually got better, so you're wrong.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:20
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rydiafan posted:People who were shadow banned on the PP forums have begun to figure out that the PP forums have shadow banning, and it's delightful. Is there a special someone I should know about? Also that's amazing.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:22
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I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to everyone here because somehow the most entertaining, thoughtful and civil WHM discussion on the internet is on comedy forum something awful dot com.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:30
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Shadowbanning is bullshit even if it hits the right people.SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Yeah but I don't see how they accomplished that If they changed FA people would still get to use some of their Mad Dogs. Now they'll probably use 0. Jimmy Hats posted:I feel like mr. Berserker needs 1 more point of mat or murderous or something like that to make him a lil better, but also think that heavies really shouldn't be less than 10 pts ever, for any reason, so i dunno. But they could have made those jacks more expensive and given them something in exchange.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:30
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Wait so the Maurader is 10 points and with the changes, mad dogs and zerkers are 9? I can see that being a bit of a no-brainer. I've always thought the marauder was awesome, standing slams is even more useful now with the stupid power attack change (I am super salty about it). If they still have that particular ability. Why didn't they reduce the number of boxes on the chassis or lower the armour further or both? Assuming that was the bigger issue (high arm/boxes) as I have never encountered the original list? I want to try out the Bokur with a bunch of the Minions casters, they generally want to play forward or they are medium based. So I think he will be going into pretty much every list for the foreseeable future, possibly my favourite errata change. He is probably sold out already  . From all Troll and Skorne players finally getting a decent shield guard 
Hoboskins fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 23:33
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head58 posted:I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to everyone here because somehow the most entertaining, thoughtful and civil WHM discussion on the internet is on comedy forum something awful dot com. I am willing and ready to take all of the credit
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Dec 24, 2016 00:00
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He's FF with minions too. Not that familiar with them, what kind of shenanigans can you get up to because of that?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:01
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El_Pato posted:I've played Arkadius twice now and seen the light. I feel weird about having zero pathfinder though. How do you deal with that? There's no solid solution. If it's a small enough piece you can just avoid it. If it's big and/or in the way you have to use your feat to get the extra movement to either go around or through it. If there's a shitload of rough terrain in important areas, play your other list.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:04
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chutche2 posted:He's FF with minions too. Not that familiar with them, what kind of shenanigans can you get up to because of that? I'm more familiar with pigs, so I might be missing something on a gator caster, but we don't have any super nice "target friendly faction solo" spells, like Storm Rager. We have stuff like Defender's Ward, but that's usually better on a beast or unit. He'll benefit from poo poo like Dash and Deceleration, though.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:07
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Outside Sturm and Drang and Helga what I am looking to test out is having a cheap meat shield with shield guard. He is big enough to block Los when you need it and he can also dish out decent damage or slam in a pinch. In Gators you have the Blindwalker, but it is hard to get mileage out of rites of power and shield guard simultaneously. Neither Gators or Pigs have many single target spells that aren't better cast on something else. He adds a layer of protection to the squishy casters who have to play forward to maximise their abilities. Especially since I don't often find the points to spluge on the Blindwalker for shield guard or occasional spell I want arced.
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Dec 24, 2016 01:11
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