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Beet Wagon posted:Yeah I mean you pretty much nailed it. The "unmelt" feature doesn't enable a user to spend their saved up store credit on the unmelted ship. So if I have a $110 Freelancer, but then melt it and buy a $180 Super Hornet (you know, ADDING $70 to my pledge total) if I decide I hate my Super Hornet and really wanted the LTI Freelancer all along, the only way I can get it back is by paying ANOTHER $110. well that all sounds pointless so "unmelting" just gives you an option to repurchase something that might not be in the store later on?
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Jan 20, 2016 15:31
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Unfortunately all he serves is mini sausages. 
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Jan 20, 2016 15:37
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Colostomy Bag posted:https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/314280/derek-smart-the-twat quote:https://twitter.com/HoldsworthPeter/status/689811706793562112 :facepalm: He doesn't tweet much, so he must be really angry with Derek. I did find this tweet of his ironic though https://twitter.com/HoldsworthPeter/status/212130647588876289
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Jan 20, 2016 15:37
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Unfortunately all he serves is mini sausages. 
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Jan 20, 2016 15:43
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Gilganixon posted:I'm having trouble comprehending this melting/unmelting garbage. As far as I can tell you can take a jpg you've paid for with money and "melt" it by turning it into store credit, but to "unmelt" it you have to buy it again with cash? I don't really want to dig into this so if any one here knows what any of this gibberish actually means then i'd be grateful to hear about it Yes, it's a way for them to get people who have already spent money to spend more money. They also have a system in place to charge a real money fee to unlock ships/store credit that is bound to your account and allow you to sell it on the "grey market" hakimashou fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 15:45
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Gilganixon posted:well that all sounds pointless Yeah it ties into their "Lifetime Insurance is basically worthless but we're going to keep making you think it isn't by making it scarce" plot. The big reason people were clamoring for unmelting to become a thing is because it's one of only two ways to get back a ship that you had previously purchased that came with LTI. The only other way to do it is wait for there to be a concept sale for a ship that's cheaper than what you had, buy it, and then upgrade it later to the ship that you want. It's not very complicated, but it requires there to be a concept sale for a ship in a very specific price range to be going on. And, because ships get more expensive every time they are sold (for example the LTI Freelancer in the initial campaign cost $110, but if you buy one or upgrade to one now, it will cost $125) people were paying extra just to have the same ship they had bought and melted a year ago. People were requesting the ability to unmelt stuff because it would bypass all of that. With unmelting you could get your LTI Freelancer back without having to jump through hoops or pay extra money for it. And since LTI is made artificially scarce, that would have been a hell of a deal. So CIG relents and gives them unmelting, but because everything at CIG is about maximizing income, they make the pretty obvious decision of making it impossible to use your store credit.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:45
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Does someone have a link to the new and improved SmartAttack on Sandi. I must have missed it.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:46
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kordansk posted:Does someone have a link to the new and improved SmartAttack on Sandi. I must have missed it. he may have just caught up with the thread.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:51
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Beet Wagon posted:Yeah it ties into their "Lifetime Insurance is basically worthless but we're going to keep making you think it isn't by making it scarce" plot. You're mistaken friend, it was all a misunderstanding on Turbulents end. They always intended for you to be able to sue store credit.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:53
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AP posted:She wouldn't need a referral code. wtf is up with germans being mad at derek? like i know basically everyone is mad at derek but germans are taking that poo poo to another level.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:03
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Colostomy Bag posted:https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/314280/derek-smart-the-twat Dude. You have to screenshot that stuff and post it along with the link. That way, when the post is removed, we can still read it and laugh.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:04
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TTerrible posted:You're mistaken friend, it was all a misunderstanding on Turbulents end. They always intended for you to be able to sue store credit. Here you go, Turbulent. Hold this buck for me, okay?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:04
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Beet Wagon posted:Yeah I mean you pretty much nailed it. The "unmelt" feature doesn't enable a user to spend their saved up store credit on the unmelted ship. So if I have a $110 Freelancer, but then melt it and buy a $180 Super Hornet (you know, ADDING $70 to my pledge total) if I decide I hate my Super Hornet and really wanted the LTI Freelancer all along, the only way I can get it back is by paying ANOTHER $110. I don't understand, if the store credit from the first melt can be used to pay part of the Hornet why can't you just melt the Hornet and buy back the Freelancer with part of the store credit you get from that?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:06
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MeLKoR posted:I don't understand, if the store credit from the first melt can be used to pay part of the Hornet why can't you just melt the Hornet and buy back the Freelancer with part of the store credit you get from that? I think they're toying with terminology to get more cash. Instead of melting the hornet to buy a "new" Freelancer, the system remembers that the person once melted a Freelancer. So since that ship type is now an "unmelt" rather than a straight-out purchase, they can invoke the "cash-only" limitation on unmelts to gouge further funds.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:12
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 Just posting this so everyone knows what is and is not fair game when it comes to this piece of poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:13
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MeLKoR posted:I don't understand, if the store credit from the first melt can be used to pay part of the Hornet why can't you just melt the Hornet and buy back the Freelancer with part of the store credit you get from that? Because greedy CIG will not allow you to buy back the melted JPEGs for store credit, you can only buy it with real sperg cash. when spergs got angry Ben the Hutt said it was a "miscommunication" lol and would eventually allow the people to unmelt jpegs using store credit tl;dr they want money so if you want to unmelt....better buy it with real sperg cash
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Jan 20, 2016 16:14
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MeLKoR posted:I don't understand, if the store credit from the first melt can be used to pay part of the Hornet why can't you just melt the Hornet and buy back the Freelancer with part of the store credit you get from that? Well it depends on who you ask. If you ask Ben, he'll say this Ben "The Pacifier" Lesnick posted:We've spoken to the web team and there's not an option for just turning on store credit with the current design... so it'll take a little thinking and a new build to make right. If you ask someone who isn't desperately trying to soothe the legions of pissed off fans who want to be able to buy poo poo back with store credit, they'll tell you that the older a ship is, the longer it's been since it has been sold with LTI, and so the more difficult it is to get one with LTI. This is why prices on the grey market were loving insane for a long time - for a while it was the ONLY way to get a ship with 'worthless' Lifetime Insurance. The demand for the ability to rebuy your LTI Freelancer (or whatever) was probably great enough that they figured nerds would be willing to eat the cost of buying it again for real dollars. Sure, you'd lose out on 15 bucks because of the price difference between sale dates, but you're still making an extra $95 by not giving them the option to use store credit. I maintain that it was a conscious decision, in an attempt to do two things: A) Keep the artificial scarcity of LTI high, making it a very desirable thing to have (seriously, when they do a cheap LTI concept sale like the Herald or the Reliant, there are people who buy multiples of them just so they can upgrade them later to have LTI on their poo poo) B) Rake in sweet nerd moneys from the people who had been desperately begging to rebuy their old LTI poo poo. Even if they only make the "no store credit" rule for six months, there's some percentage of the population that will be willing to spend the money. If they change the rule later, who gives a poo poo, because at least they got to fleece some nerds. It's the same concept as when you start out selling a product at an absurdly high price and slowly lower the price over time: For every price point there is a portion of the consumer base that is willing to pay that much. By starting high and ending low, you maximize the percentage of potential consumers you attract. Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 16:14
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Jesus christ, I love how TheRoadBeer guy is defending Karl's right to encourage people to find & harass Derek's kids because we made fat jokes about Ben and some jabs at Sandi. That is some great loving cognitive dissonance.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:15
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MeLKoR posted:
I'm picking up some subtle implications by Matilda here that somehow Derek's wife is totally in the dark about his behavior, rather than being regaled by tales of his internet heroism on a nightly basis, which I find more likely. Apparently in Matilda's world (and lots of backers in general, if I'm been keeping up correctly) keeping your wife in the dark about everything you do is the norm.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:16
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Scruffpuff posted:I think they're toying with terminology to get more cash. Instead of melting the hornet to buy a "new" Freelancer, the system remembers that the person once melted a Freelancer. So since that ship type is now an "unmelt" rather than a straight-out purchase, they can invoke the "cash-only" limitation on unmelts to gouge further funds. No, you can still do either. It's just that if you melt the Hornet and buy the "new" Freelancer with store credit, you won't get LTI on it (unless you use the concept sale workaround). People who really want LTI and want it now are likely willing to pay the premium for their "old" Freelancer that had LTI - which means completely rebuying it.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:16
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Beet Wagon posted:No, you can still do either. It's just that if you melt the Hornet and buy the "new" Freelancer with store credit, you won't get LTI on it (unless you use the concept sale workaround). People who really want LTI and want it now are likely willing to pay the premium for their "old" Freelancer that had LTI - which means completely rebuying it. I stand corrected - that makes more sense. And still a scummy move, to be honest.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:19
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Scruffpuff posted:I think they're toying with terminology to get more cash. Instead of melting the hornet to buy a "new" Freelancer, the system remembers that the person once melted a Freelancer. So since that ship type is now an "unmelt" rather than a straight-out purchase, they can invoke the "cash-only" limitation on unmelts to gouge further funds. Wait, I can't possibly be getting this right... I can melt a $100 Freelancer and use the credit to buy any other ship except a ship I've already had in the past? If I melted a Freelancer by mistake I could use the credit to buy any other ship except the Freelancer? If the store credit can be used to purchase ships why do they specifically forbid you from buying a certain ship in particular just because you've had it once? How do they justify going out of their way to forbid this in particular? What reasoning do they use to explain this? \/\/\/\/\/\/\/ e: oh, thanks
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Jan 20, 2016 16:20
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MeLKoR posted:Wait, I can't possibly be getting this right... I was wrong - check out Beet's post just above.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:21
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another question, what's the point of LTI? Like if I'm pooting around in the PU (ha) and some goon crashes into my $500 jpeg-class spergvessel and writes it off, am i just SOL unless I have insurance?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:21
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MeLKoR posted:
lol didnt derek say he knows who matilda is after someone started looking into it.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:22
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MeLKoR posted:
He needs to look up 'harrassment'.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:23
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Gilganixon posted:another question, what's the point of LTI? I think the idea is your buy insurance in game with in game currency. (that you bought off the webstore for $$$)
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Jan 20, 2016 16:24
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Gilganixon posted:another question, what's the point of LTI? Basically yeah. It's a screwy alternative version of the "insurance" system in EVE Online. And apparently there'll be different versions/levels to cover just the hull, equipment, cargo, etc. (Of course there won't be, because there's never going to actually be a game).
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Jan 20, 2016 16:26
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Gilganixon posted:another question, what's the point of LTI? That's one of the funniest parts of this whole thing. It's very difficult to ascertain just how valuable LTI will actually be, because nobody knows what the ultimate cost of ship destruction will be. In Elite you always know exactly how many credits you have, exactly what the cost of replacing your ship is, and they have it calculated right down to the subsystem level so if you get destroyed and you're a bit short on credits, you can forego (for example) that expensive shield generator that obviously didn't keep you alive, but replace all the other components. In SC, nobody knows how ships will be obtained in game, how credits will be obtained, what credit value is, what affect the market will have on credit value, how ships will be upgraded or outfitted, how ammo and fuel costs will work, how ship repair and/or destruction will be handled, either in the presence of or the absence of the concept of LTI. I can easily imagine a handful of possible permutations of LTI (example: if an LTI ship is destroyed, you'll always at least get the base model back without advanced components), but nothing solid has come out of CIG regarding any of this. Just a lot of hand-waving and thinking out loud.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:27
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Gilganixon posted:another question, what's the point of LTI? Yes and no. They are being deliberately cagey about it, which is why LTI is still in such huge demand. With LTI, any time you gently caress up and destroy your $500 autism chariot, you get that back. In essence you never "lose" your $500 ship for more than a short term replacement period, which is obviously really appealing because how loving pissed would you be if your "money" just vaporized because some goon ran into you. Without LTI, there will be some sort of in-game insurance. Supposedly it will be very very very cheap and will last for like six months at a time. So long as you remember to keep throwing a couple UEC at some NPC every six months, your $500 is totally safe. What has people clamoring for LTI is the very real possibility that you might forget to pay your insurance on a non-LTI ship and permanently lose something that you paid REAL MONEY(TM) for. CIG has made various statements about making hard or maybe impossible to leave port without insurance (because the first time someone loses an Idris with no way of getting it back, YouTube will actually catch on fire) but they haven't said anything definite, as far as I'm aware.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:28
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Beet Wagon posted:CIG has made various statements about making hard or maybe impossible to leave port without insurance (because the first time someone loses an Idris with no way of getting it back, YouTube will actually catch on fire) but they haven't said anything definite, as far as I'm aware. Logistically speaking, if you can't even fly the ship unless it has insurance, then why have insurance in the game in the first place?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:31
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Romes128 posted:wtf is up with germans being mad
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Jan 20, 2016 16:32
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Scruffpuff posted:Logistically speaking, if you can't even fly the ship unless it has insurance, then why have insurance in the game in the first place? That's why I don't think they are going to go that route. I think they might have your ship pop up a warning that it's not insured every time you'll get rid of it, but they are still going to let you choose to be a retard if you want. Either way, the point of it all is to drive up demand for a non-existent product that they can charge a premium for.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:33
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Scruffpuff posted:Logistically speaking, if you can't even fly the ship unless it has insurance, then why have insurance in the game in the first place? So you can still BUY them. Silly.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:33
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Gilganixon posted:another question, what's the point of LTI? Yep, from my understanding. But poo poo gets better, because lets just not make things simple...let's make them more immersive. Depending on the scarcity of the ship, you might have to wait for one to roll off the assembly line. So replacing an Idris will take longer than a Mustang because of the in game economy/manufacturing engine. Also, ship wear and tear is supposedly simulated. So say you bought a 2010 Buick new for $25K or whatever. It get's totalled today. They might give you $8K for it right? Well from my understanding, that is how it will work in the Verse. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. (And I promise in the future to take more screenshots, I hold my head in shame)
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Jan 20, 2016 16:35
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C-Bangin' it 
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if they don't simulate the queue at the insurance office my immersion will be ruined will Croberts also give us the opportunity to pay our space bills in the 'Verse in first person, featuring unskippable 30-second animations as we stuff money into envelopes and send them to RSI? seriously though none of this sounds fun on any level, it looks like Croberts saw Eve making some money and wanted a slice of that for himself without even thinking about how it would affect gameplay
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Jan 20, 2016 16:35
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Colostomy Bag posted:Yep, from my understanding. I've never heard anything about the insurance value degrading over time. As far as I know, all the comments about ship wear and tear were in regards to some graphical doodads they wanted to implement so that not every ship looked pristine. I could be wrong.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:37
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MeLKoR posted:
Seriously, I am amazed that anyone in their right mind would think it's cool to involve the kids of someone in an internet argument over a game. gently caress those people that do.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:39
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Gilganixon posted:seriously though none of this sounds fun on any level, it looks like Croberts saw Eve making some money and wanted a slice of that for himself without even thinking about how it would affect gameplay He's basically done this sort of thing with most of the "systems" that this "game" will (never) have. Everything is taken from other games, and shredded and then put back together in a janky version of the original mechanics, and then hailed by the faithful as a wonderful idea (it really isn't) and completely original interpretation of this mechanics. Also: gently caress reddit.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:42
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Iglocska posted:Seriously, I am amazed that anyone in their right mind would think it's cool to involve the kids of someone in an internet argument over a game. gently caress those people that do. The best is the counterargument to the callout. "Oh yeah, why didn't you do anything about that guy Bandit who posted poo poo? huh? huh??!" I don't even know who they're talking about, nor do I even think any of us would've been OK with that gently caress posting about how they contacted Chris Roberts' kids.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:43
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