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Hauldren Collider posted:To be fair to this concept, that's all our navy has actually done for decades. When was the last time we had to sink a ship? Sure but the navy is pretty much THE branch for staring down near peer adversaries. The US has gotten a lot of traction over the last 70 years out of being the dominant blue water force. Giving that up would lead to issues.
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Mar 9, 2018 17:53
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hobbesmaster posted:Iran-Iraq war so 30 years ago? Apparently so.
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Mar 9, 2018 17:57
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Cyrano4747 posted:Sure but the navy is pretty much THE branch for staring down near peer adversaries. The US has gotten a lot of traction over the last 70 years out of being the dominant blue water force. Giving that up would lead to issues. By virtue of it's existence the US Navy provides some measure of guarantee for global freedom of commerce. From Somalia, to Haiti, to the Sulu Sea, we as people are never that far away from acting as pirates. The tanker wars, etc. show this up in a more dramatic (and explosive) way.
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Mar 9, 2018 18:25
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Back Hack posted:I guess that explains why the proposed M1A3 upgrade was amended to have a new armor design, even though originally the upgrade package was almost entirely focused on logistics of making the M1 more lighter, easier to maintain, and overall more efficient. IIRC the M1A2 info in this was pretty light on the details, it was mainly focused on the upgraded armor package for the Swedish Leopards. The main takeaway that I recall (that I suppose I can mention now that it's pretty much all over the internet) was that as far as armor went, 2A5 > M1A2 >>> Leclerc.
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Mar 9, 2018 19:11
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I saw this: https://www.cnn.com/style/article/danila-tkachenko-restricted-areas/index.html Which lead me to this: http://www.danilatkachenko.com/projects/restricted-areas/ Which lead me to this: http://www.danilatkachenko.com/books/ Looks like a great coffee table book.
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Mar 9, 2018 19:11
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TheFluff posted:IIRC the M1A2 info in this was pretty light on the details, it was mainly focused on the upgraded armor package for the Swedish Leopards. The main takeaway that I recall (that I suppose I can mention now that it's pretty much all over the internet) was that as far as armor went, 2A5 > M1A2 >>> Leclerc.
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Mar 9, 2018 19:17
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evil_bunnY posted:I mean that makes a lot of sense considering that regardless of armor properties, the Leclerc is a lighter design. 10 metric tons is a lot of armor. And also tanks are inherently 'gun, speed, armour - pick two (if you're lucky)' and France has traditionally gone more for the first two.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:09
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evil_bunnY posted:I mean that makes a lot of sense considering that regardless of armor properties, the Leclerc is a lighter design. 10 metric tons is a lot of armor. Yeah, not exactly earth-shattering news. I don't think the info in the leak really surprised any intelligence analysts either - we're talking about tanks that are over 20 years old, after all.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:10
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Russians have stuck a huge missile on the MiG-31. Looks to be some sort of high-speed cruise missile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8nHv93rFpM    Size comparison vs. Iskander  New missile is loving big.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:39
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Xerxes17 posted:So apparently a Swedish dude accidentally leaked the details of the armor on the M1A2 and Leopard2A5 two years ago. Ooops! ???? Where’s this and link?!ive totally missed this.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:06
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Valtonen posted:???? Where’s this and link?!ive totally missed this. Calm down comrade. Putin already has it.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:10
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feedmegin posted:And also tanks are inherently 'gun, speed, armour - pick two (if you're lucky)' and France has traditionally gone more for the first two. I'd say the M1 has all three, it's just maintenance heavy and very thirsty.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:10
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Valtonen posted:???? Where’s this and link?!ive totally missed this. Don't do this, Valtonen. Cyrano doesn't need a loving OPSEC/CI investigator sending him Emails.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:21
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I’d assume there’s a news article about it. Or else the post probably should be deleted
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Mar 9, 2018 23:22
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SimonCat posted:I'd say the M1 has all three, it's just maintenance heavy and very thirsty. mlmp08 posted:Don't do this, Valtonen. Cyrano doesn't need a loving OPSEC/CI investigator sending him Emails. No I mean if it’s already declassified as leaked. Sounded like that to me. If not then dah
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Mar 9, 2018 23:23
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Valtonen posted:No I mean if it’s already declassified as leaked. Sounded like that to me. If not then dah Ah, I don't know if a leak was formally reported. But contents of any alleged leak are certainly not declassified, no matter how far and wide it may have spread.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:25
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And m1 doesn’t have all three, the “speed” aspect covers also strategic mobility and that 68 tons is a pain in the rear end when you need to cross bridges on undeveloped countries, plus the fueler line your platoon needs for moving.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:25
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mlmp08 posted:Ah, I don't know if a leak was formally reported. But contents of any alleged leak are certainly not declassified, no matter how far and wide it may have spread. Yes I know leak =!= classification level Change, there was a big deal in Finland about it when a major newspaper released some less-than-public info about our sigint center last spring. However I was more into how this slipped my view as far as any articles and cleaned-out summaries in public since I don’t think the post was “lol I found this folder about STRRV122 named “classified” guys”
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Mar 9, 2018 23:29
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Oh it was an unedited version of a publicly released document. It showed an export-intended M1A2 with surpringly low protection values for kinetic threats across the turret and hull. It also showed a version of the A2 with Swedish "improvements" which made the Abrams nigh impenetrable across the frontal arc. Either way, Abrams fans frown. Russian fans cheer at the frown. Swedish STRV-122 is now revealed to have been the true God tank and Swedens invasion of Russia and the US is going to kick off any second. Please disregard any rumors of Swedens involvement in the Leopard 2A5 project. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 23:51
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Skyhawk without a tail
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Mar 10, 2018 02:12
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Doctor Grape Ape posted:I saw this: https://www.cnn.com/style/article/danila-tkachenko-restricted-areas/index.html This is 1000% percent my jam, thank you for the links.
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Mar 10, 2018 02:20
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/politics/pentagon-memo-trump-military-parade/index.htmlquote:The parade will "include wheeled vehicles only, no tanks," the memo said, adding that "consideration must be given to minimize damage to local infrastructure."  quote:It will, however, involve "a heavy air component" with military aircraft flying overhead at the end of parade, including older aircraft "as available," the memo said.  Memento posted:This is 1000% percent my jam, thank you for the links. Let me know how it is, I thought it looked pretty neat too.
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Mar 10, 2018 05:57
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Speaking of tanks in general, I saw a side by side comparison recently of Russia's T14 vs the M1, even though the T14 is lighter it's so much bigger than the Abrams; which is saying something because the Abrams is a big tank. It's going to be a freaking bullet/missile magnet. 
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Mar 10, 2018 05:59
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88 posts behind, so excuse me if this has been posted in th mean time: https://www.facebook.com/heikki.siponen/videos/10155516196613719/
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Mar 10, 2018 09:13
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JcDent posted:88 posts behind, so excuse me if this has been posted in th mean time: That is hilariously 80's.
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Mar 10, 2018 09:16
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Back Hack posted:Speaking of tanks in general, I saw a side by side comparison recently of Russia's T14 vs the M1, even though the T14 is lighter it's so much bigger than the Abrams; which is saying something because the Abrams is a big tank. It's going to be a freaking bullet/missile magnet. Abrams is surprisingly low-profile before they decided to add a massive bonkers height crows straight in front of the TC. Coming from Leo 2’s I was surprised how small m1 is given its weight if you strip out the crows.
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Mar 10, 2018 09:49
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JcDent posted:88 posts behind, so excuse me if this has been posted in th mean time:  o7
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Mar 10, 2018 09:52
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Hauldren Collider posted:To be fair to this concept, that's all our navy has actually done for decades. When was the last time we had to sink a ship? Libya. A Navy P-3 put a missile into a Libyan patrol boat.
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Mar 10, 2018 11:20
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Doctor Grape Ape posted:I saw this: https://www.cnn.com/style/article/danila-tkachenko-restricted-areas/index.html Tkachenko got into a little trouble a while back for the other project mentioned on the site, the motherland one. Basically Russia is dotted with abandoned villages due to ongoing urbanization and the natural population decline - immigrants don't move to the sticks - and he went and burned a couple of them. quote:In modern Russia the trend of a contraction in the number of rural villages has continued. Over the past 20 years 23,000 villages have disappeared from the map of Russia, while small farmers are unable to compete with major corporations. According to the forecasts of some demographers, 96% of rural dwellers will live in cities by 2025. In other words, the rural population will disappear almost entirely. The writeup below the pics on Tkachenko's site has some cool info on Soviet policy.  Article: quote:In a new photo project dedicated to the decline of Russia’s villages, Moscow artist Danila Tkachenko set fire to several empty village homes. Speaking to Colta.ru, Tkachenko said he deliberately selected abandoned homes and spent several days studying what the last tenants had left inside the houses, before burning them down. “The whole thing is very Russian,” Tkachenko explained. “You take it and then you burn it to hell.” https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/1...ody-s-loving-it aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 12:04
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Libya. A Navy P-3 put a missile into a Libyan patrol boat. The crew of the patrol boat managed to beach it before it sank, so that only half counts. Also, I'm pretty sure I remember there being a goon on that P-3.
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Mar 10, 2018 13:06
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Isn't Leclerc the second most expensive tank after the one Korean wonder (K2)? What gives, if it's not that armored? Also, a pity that Chally 2 wasn't in the leak, vut I guess nobody expects the Brits to build any more of them... or anything else for that matter.
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Mar 10, 2018 15:32
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JcDent posted:Isn't Leclerc the second most expensive tank after the one Korean wonder (K2)? More limited production run resulting in a higher inidividual unit cost I imagine.
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Mar 10, 2018 16:13
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Dandywalken posted:Oh it was an unedited version of a publicly released document. It showed an export-intended M1A2 with surpringly low protection values for kinetic threats across the turret and hull. Could be worse. At least one T-90 got captured in Syria and a few ended up left behind rebel lines after brewing up/exploding. Between Syria and Eastern Ukraine there has been a ton of new information regarding split open Soviet and Russian tanks. Edit: Same goes for export M1's in Yemen. Don't think the Turks have left behind any of the Leopard 2A4's they lost, though. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 16:35
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It's not the armor that drove the Leclerc's cost up, it's the equipment. The Leclerc was designed around a high degree of automation, high quality sensors, and active protection. The kind of things that other tanks got later during upgrade programs.
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Mar 10, 2018 16:47
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So, anything published about those T-90s? Also, Osprey recently released Zaloga's new book on T-90, is it any good?
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Mar 10, 2018 17:18
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How interesting is capturing an A4? It still has the flat turret front without the addon wedge and if I had to guess I'd say the real Leo-related secret sauce nowadays probably is what's in that wedge.
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Mar 10, 2018 18:07
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The French internet upon reading the Leclerc armor estimates: "Merde!!!"
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Mar 10, 2018 18:18
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aphid_licker posted:How interesting is capturing an A4? It still has the flat turret front without the addon wedge and if I had to guess I'd say the real Leo-related secret sauce nowadays probably is what's in that wedge. From the images available on the internet, the contents of the wedges appears to be mostly empty space.  Maybe the secret secret sauce is the composition of the plates but from the looks of it, the wedges are plain old steel/rubber NERA. From what I've heard, the Swedish Strv 122 has some homebrew wedge armor made by Åkers Krutbruk and if the name of the manufacturer is any hint, there might be some proper ERA involved there.
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Mar 10, 2018 21:40
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Apparently Ian lurks in this thread because he saw me complaining that there's nobody doing teardowns on heavy weapons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWR3SwSEdTg
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Mar 10, 2018 21:43
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Arglebargle III posted:Apparently Ian lurks in this thread because he saw me complaining that there's nobody doing teardowns on heavy weapons.  
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Mar 10, 2018 22:05
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