|
Doctor Butts posted:Question: First approach (force player/pass to goalie's strong side) is definitely a valid way to approach it if you know your goalie well enough and the wings seem to be pretty equally skilled. The second, actually it might seem counterintuitive to you but in the vast majority of cases you'd actually rather the person pass to someone close to them as it requires less adjustment on the goalie's part in the first place. A clear cross-ice pass is very likely to get there faster than the goalie can first read that the person is going to pass that way, then get across the net and finally get into proper position to make the save - that's why you want to take away the pass in the first place. Trying to think of scenarios where this may not be the case - if the furthest option is coming down at a really bad angle or their timing seems off, or if you notice one of your teammates catching up to them, you might rather try to force a pass that way. Basically, it's about trying to force the puck carrier into making a quick/stupid decision (or running out of room - Aniki is right and at these levels a lot of people will just end up running out of room because they can't decide what to do!) by taking away whatever his best (pass AND shot) options are. Also, if there's a 3 on 1 then somebody probably-not-you has already hosed something up big-time anyway and even if you play it perfectly it's still an advantage and they're likely to get a scoring chance so whatever you do, just learn from it and don't beat yourself up. (I still have to tell myself this after >20 years) Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 3, 2012 |
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 18:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:03 |
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:Yes this is what I did so I don't think we're in disagreement. I wasn't disagreeing with anyone. Just trying to add to the conversation. I like discussing tactics, and I think I know more about playing Defense in hockey more than anything else in this world. And I have a college degree. :P
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 18:36
|
|
|
^^nbd I just was not sure that I was getting the situation across well. Sort of related to the current topic of discussion, but any of you other (defensive-minded) D out there - do you find that you tend to get a lot more frustrated with people in general when you're playing defense on an unskilled (mentally and/or physically) team than when you are playing forward on a team of the same general skill level? I think I take responsibility for too much crap that isn't necessarily my fault when I'm on defense and it just frustrates me. (this is also part of the reason why I wasn't really suited to playing goal, even though I tried for a few years) Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Apr 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 18:44
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:^^nbd I just was not sure that I was getting the situation across well. and I have 3 college degrees. I only have intramural experience, and that was always with teammates who played at the private schools around me, so I don't have much to go off of, but I'd assume that it would be more frustrating because you end up constantly on the wrong end of odd man rushes and that is only fun to deal with a few times in a game, not every 20 seconds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 18:49
|
|
(shoot me please)
|
Actually to me I think the odd-man rushes are less frustrating than the lack of being able to break the puck out of the zone without physically carrying it out myself. I can only handle so much of putting a pass right on a forward's stick only to have it shoved right back down my throat when they cough it up, or having zero pass options to be found and a guy on the other team coming at me before I get super super frustrated, and I know on a logical level that it isn't the forward's FAULT but still...
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 18:56
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:Actually to me I think the odd-man rushes are less frustrating than the lack of being able to break the puck out of the zone without physically carrying it out myself. I can only handle so much of putting a pass right on a forward's stick only to have it shoved right back down my throat when they cough it up, or having zero pass options to be found and a guy on the other team coming at me before I get super super frustrated, and I know on a logical level that it isn't the forward's FAULT but still... That said, I am pretty far from the perfect defensemen so it's a bit hard to complain. For the forwards who do skate to get open, I'm sure a lot of them would say "no no, I was there when you started to pass, but I'm MOVING, you jackass."
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 19:08
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:First approach (force player/pass to goalie's strong side) is definitely a valid way to approach it if you know your goalie well enough and the wings seem to be pretty equally skilled. It does seem like the approach between defensemen and goalies are similar in the sense of wanting to limit options and ideally force the puck carrier to take a bad shot or run out of room before he can make a play. The one part that I'm not sure about is the long pass versus the short, but a lot of that is situational and depends on the goaltenders individual strengths. A long pass going from right to left isn't too bad, but a long pass going from left to right can be harder for me to get in position to stop. I definitely agree that if your team is facing a 3-on-1, then someone other than the defensemen and goalie made a huge mistake
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 19:17
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:^^nbd I just was not sure that I was getting the situation across well. I can't respond from a defensemen's perspective, but a lot of problems on D/scoring chances are caused up front. Either a forward or center doesn't backcheck, a defensemen moves up to attack and no one drops back to cover for him, or the worst is when someone makes a weak blind pass that the other team takes the other way. It's just a reminder that it's a team game and the forwards and center really are the first line of defense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 19:27
|
|
|
Most of the failures I see from the forwards is a result of huge skill/conditioning gaps. You get an old dude trying to backcheck some 20 year old whiz kid who can get up to 20 mph in two steps.. it's no contest and the defense is going to get run ragged because of it. It only gets worse towards the end of a two hour skate when everyone is gassed, except for the 20 year old snot who never loving runs out of energy. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 19:31
|
|
|
xzzy posted:It only gets worse towards the end of a two hour skate when everyone is gassed, except for the 20 year old snot who never loving runs out of energy. Haha, one of the funniest part of beer league hockey IMO is seeing the progression from the old dudes getting all mad about that 20 year old taking long shifts at the beginning of the game to them waving him back onto the ice for a double shift later in the game when they're dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 19:38
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:Actually to me I think the odd-man rushes are less frustrating than the lack of being able to break the puck out of the zone without physically carrying it out myself. I can only handle so much of putting a pass right on a forward's stick only to have it shoved right back down my throat when they cough it up, or having zero pass options to be found and a guy on the other team coming at me before I get super super frustrated, and I know on a logical level that it isn't the forward's FAULT but still... Ahh, I know this feeling all to well. Just throw the puck off the glass. You probably have no one to pass to because they are on the blue line or out of the zone anyways. If they try to tell you to stop, ask them to get in a position to receive a breakout pass. I do understand that the problem is that forwards think because they don't have defense in the name of their position they shouldn't need to enter the defensive zone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 20:00
|
|
|
Topoisomerase posted:Sort of related to the current topic of discussion, but any of you other (defensive-minded) D out there - do you find that you tend to get a lot more frustrated with people in general when you're playing defense on an unskilled (mentally and/or physically) team than when you are playing forward on a team of the same general skill level? As a defenseman (who plays up quite a bit), the only thing that really pisses me off anymore is watching highly skilled forwards pull stupid poo poo on D. Trying to dangle when they're the last man back. Homerun passes, or trying to take it end to end. That kind of crap drives me crazy. I'm fine with poorly skilled players, as long as they're giving 100%. edit: I'm also no Gretzky. Just a Mid-C scrub. But I think the same sentiment applies everywhere. waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Apr 4, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 22:23
|
|
|
Dangerllama posted:As a defenseman (who plays up quite a bit), the only thing that really pisses me off anymore is watching highly skilled forwards pull stupid poo poo on D. Trying to dangle when they're the last man back. Homerun passes, or trying to take it end to end. That kind of crap drives me crazy. I really really try to be fine with them, and I totally understand they're new and really try to say encouraging and constructive things and give advice if it's a problem with positioning rather than skill level. But inwardly I still get frustrated and it definitely affects how I play when I work a dude along the boards and get the puck out, only to have two forwards deeper than me in the zone "helping" (standing still with a blocked passing lane) and the other at center ice almost with both points wide open and watching me. Then I have to carry it out, and if I've already repeated the process 2 or 3 times from not being able to breakout I'm way too tired to be able to do much but ice it. Plus I definitely hate being 'that defenseman' that takes the puck up all the time. I think in beer league I might stick to forward and just play defense on my travel team. Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Apr 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 22:44
|
|
|
Beer leaguers have a terrible habit of clustering up in front of the crease, they see a hole developing and move in to try and seal it up. Downside being, it leaves no one available to actually pressure the puck. Their heart is in the right place, no one wants to let a goal in, but it would be nice if they stuck to their role a bit better. I'm still an fairly inexperienced hockey player, but I more or less game mechanics and I like to think I'm positionally sound, even if I've got some rough edges with the finer details. I try not to rant about it too much because I'm definitely the new guy to the club, but being watching three teammates clog up the slot while the puck is in the corner makes me want to choke someone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2012 22:54
|
|
|
I only play beer league at the lowest level, and only off and on am I on defense, and I don't really mind playing against any level of competition*. The way I see it, the only way for me to get better is to play against people better than me. I don't normally get frustrated in a loss, or unskilled play, I get frustrated with lack of effort. Example: a defensive pinch goes awry. No forward cycles back because we're in the offensive zone and, well, didn't you know you can score 8 goals at once if you're crowding the crease? So now it's an X on 1 that I'm trying to defend against. I don't mind that. I mind that no forward is skating hard on the back check to help me out, and that it's my defensive partner who's passing these forwards to try and get back and make a play. It's these same forwards who stay out for 3+ minute shifts and say "I'm good, I've got legs" when they only know how to skate towards the opposing goal in earnest. * - Teams FULL of B-level and AIHL Pro players playing in lowest D division excluded.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 15:51
|
|
|
Playing against people better than me certainly helps my endurance and speed.. chasing them around nonstop trying to wrest the puck from them pays big dividends in the long run. I'm still not "fast" but I'm a heck of a lot better than I was back in September.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 15:59
|
|
|
I don't get to play nearly enough during the school year, but intramurals start tonight. I really want to give defense a try, but with only 4 D I'm guessing I'll just get stuck playing bottom line forward.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 16:03
|
|
|
cenzo posted:I only play beer league at the lowest level, and only off and on am I on defense, and I don't really mind playing against any level of competition*. The way I see it, the only way for me to get better is to play against people better than me. I get frustrated when our group of forwards skate themselves out of position on the forecheck or on our breakout we have 2 forwards on the boards looking for a pass but neither is moving their feet. Being sidelined all season with injury sucks but at least I get to observe what our team was doing
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 17:00
|
|
|
Has anybody bought skates from Hockey Monkey? I've never bought skates online but for the prices they offer, I'm considering it. I want a new pair of Grafs but I don't want to be stuck with something flawed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 18:06
|
|
|
I've been to their store before -- everything looks like any other legitimate store. If you know your size, why not?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 18:18
|
|
|
shyguy posted:Has anybody bought skates from Hockey Monkey? I've never bought skates online but for the prices they offer, I'm considering it. I want a new pair of Grafs but I don't want to be stuck with something flawed. I bought my Vapors from them last year. They were the previous year model, so I got them literally half off. They beat my local rink's pro shop prices by a few hundred bucks, so it was a no-brainer. I went to the pro shop, got fitted in Vapors, then went home and ordered them from HM. Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Apr 4, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 18:22
|
|
|
Hockeymonkey is one of my go to online stores. My other ones are hockeygiant which isn't that great anymore and icewarehouse which is where I usually look first.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 18:24
|
|
|
Yeah I would say go with Icewarehouse first but they don't seem to carry Graf. Their prices are sometimes a little higher but I don't think Hockey Monkey does free shipping. IW does free 2-day on orders over $200 too so good for skates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:03
|
|
|
It'd be pretty cool if these online retailers could partner up with pro shops. The idea of using a tiny store as nothing but a skate sizing service that you pay nothing for is good for saving money, but it strikes me as a losing proposition for these tiny shops (that already barely make any money). I guess they make some of it back by charging you for baking and sharpening down the road, but it seems to me if they could get a relationship going with hockey monkey to bring down shipping costs or something it'd work out better for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:24
|
|
|
xzzy posted:It'd be pretty cool if these online retailers could partner up with pro shops. I'm not sure what's in it for Hockey Monkey. In a few years states will start making online vendors pay sales tax, that will probably help local shops stay in business. I needed a last minute stick over the summer and the local shop was super low on stock (because it was summer) and the cheapest stick they had was a mid-range composite. When I got home from buying it and looked on IW it was $43 cheaper, but $13 of that was sales tax.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:38
|
|
|
Hockeymonkey also has it's own giant superstores.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:39
|
|
|
Surfing Turtle posted:Hockeymonkey also has it's own giant superstores. In weird places I can't get to.  I just hate seeing small businesses go under, as they always seem to be the places where people who care most about a craft tend to end up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:43
|
|
|
xzzy posted:In weird places I can't get to. I gave him all the business I could, which was quite a lot, but in his instance the biggest issue was that there simply weren't enough people to serve. Because there's such limited ice around here in Orlando you can only have so many people who play at a time and once they get gear they don't really need any new stuff for a long time. It would've been really nice if he stayed in town cause he really was a nice guy and a good teacher, but I could understand his desire to move back home and try to get his coaching stuff going.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:48
|
|
|
Hockey is also just a hard sport to do the small shop thing with. The merchandise is already expensive so most of the time you don't have much choice but to have a decent markup just so you can pay the rent. On top of that there is so much variation in equipment that it's expensive just to stock up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:55
|
|
|
The only local shop I know of that still exists around here is this one that merged with a bike shop. That and your typical rink pro shops, but I don't know if you can count those. Michigan has Perani's stores, which is your typical big box store. My biggest complaints with Perani's are (a) they don't carry Eagle and (b) they don't have anyone on staff who knows how to sharpen skates properly. e: This is especially problematic right now because I usually go to the rink by my house to get my skates sharpened, but the dude is only open whenever I'm not there, and he's seemingly never open when the fall season is over. Gio fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 4, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 19:57
|
|
|
Gio posted:The only local shop I know of that still exists around here is this one that merged with a bike shop. That and your typical rink pro shops, but I don't know if you can count those. Oh Perani's, ours has gotten better in the past few years, but it used to be terrible!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 20:31
|
|
|
Their prices are okay. Most of their stuff is priced about the same as the online price, and their selection at the bigger ones is good enough. What really pisses me off more than anything is that they don't know how to sharpen skates. It's always some kid who doesn't give a drat and does a hack job. When the only other place to get your skates sharpened are pro shops that are closed when beer leagues and drop-in skates play, it's kind of a big complaint.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 20:36
|
|
|
Gio posted:Their prices are okay. Most of their stuff is priced about the same as the online price, and their selection at the bigger ones is good enough. What really pisses me off more than anything is that they don't know how to sharpen skates. It's always some kid who doesn't give a drat and does a hack job. When the only other place to get your skates sharpened are pro shops that are closed when beer leagues and drop-in skates play, it's kind of a big complaint. That is what used to be terrible. The employees didn't know poo poo about hockey, or didn't care. I don't know if they can sharpen skates anymore, because I won't even give them another chance. But it used to be terrible asking for gear recommendations too. It's gotten better recently fortunately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2012 20:39
|
|
|
Went skating for the first time in a while and really got a good feel for the lovely rental skates. Getting my own this weekend at Kettler Ice Complex where the Caps practice  What are some things that should be progressed up to? I know I've gotta figure out how to "hockey stop" and figure out skating backwards eventually  I'm trying to go at least once per week but work + distance.... Also, does anyone have experience with Easton or Reebok shinguards? How do they fit? Re: Ice warehouse, They have some p cool "how to" vids on sizing n'at. Even as a beginner I have some things to consider. Though, I trust the OP a little more for getting skates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 02:50
|
|
|
AboveAndBeyond posted:Went skating for the first time in a while and really got a good feel for the lovely rental skates. Getting my own this weekend at Kettler Ice Complex where the Caps practice You'll want to learn to do forward and backward crossovers and also how to stop backwards. We had sort of an informal shinguard poll a few months ago: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 03:08
|
|
|
There's not a lot to work up to -- you just kind of need to practice it all. Forward skating / forward crossovers and stopping are the first things I guess you should cover in terms of pure skating? Just get comfortable out there and if you start playing you'll see where your weaknesses are and what you need to do. Good luck starting out -- it really is the best sport and if you can play or skate even 2x a week you'll be amazing how quickly you can improve. Edit: also sad to see that I'm the only one who still has Hespeler shin guards. And probably the only one with Louisville shoulder pads that look like they're made for football 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 03:18
|
|
|
Crossovers are the biggest thing to focus on learning.. they open up just about everything it means to "power skate". You can work up to them by practicing c-cuts and pivot turns (google them) because they really teach you to learn and trust your edges.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 03:45
|
|
|
Thufir posted:You'll want to learn to do forward and backward crossovers and also how to stop backwards. Need to update me on that. I wear 14" EQ50s now. Edit: Under tongue
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 03:50
|
|
|
Thufir posted:You'll want to learn to do forward and backward crossovers and also how to stop backwards. I now wear 17" CCMs and I can't recall the model. Under tongue. Skated tonight for my buddy's yearly rental to end the ski season up here. Everyone from never-evers on up to the dude with his junior b experience. Fantastic fun giving the puck to people who can barely skate and letting them skate it in under low-low pressure. This is been a good week with tonight being hockey night number 3 in a row. Tomorrow is our league game to make 4 nights of pulse-pounding excitement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 05:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:03 |
|
|
I'm over the tongue, yo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2012 05:46
|
|