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Hey Johnny, are tanzanites that are bezel set still as likely to get all chipped up in a very short time? Bezel set like this one? This really really pretty one that is just so cute and gorgeous and I'd really really love to have except I'm afraid it will get chipped to poo poo and maybe I ought to ask to have replaced with a sapphire? http://www.daysjewelers.com/product...8.02ct+tw%29.do
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Oct 17, 2011 23:24
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:That diamonds aren't rare and he's supporting a horrible exploitative cartel at best and literally helping fund war criminals committing genocide at worst... Oi, not this again. If you want to point fingers pick someone besides DeBeers. They're doing a fine job and using their control to force governments to stay on the up and up. Currently the only questionable players in the market are Zimbabwe/China, and those diamonds haven't been Kimberly Process certified so they aren't in the market. And likely won't be until the Zimbabwe government changes things for the better. When DeBeers let go of their market control mechanism the price of diamonds rose significantly - Turns out that DeBeers had been artificially suppressing the cost of diamonds for 90 years. Whoops. I personally believe Canadian diamonds to be a suspicious product. Since they're sent overseas to be cut I have a suspicion that African goods are co-mingled with them. screenwritersblues posted:For a long time now, I've been trying to find something similiar to this.
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Oct 17, 2011 23:46
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errol _flynn posted:Hey Johnny, are tanzanites that are bezel set still as likely to get all chipped up in a very short time? That's a great way to set a more delicate stone. It will wear very well over time.
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Oct 17, 2011 23:47
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JohnnyRnR posted:Oi, not this again. If you want to point fingers pick someone besides DeBeers. Well, to be fair I'm convinced that buying any diamonds is a terrible idea because it fuels the false sense or rarity that allows the bullshit notion that diamonds should be worth a ton which in turn allows the small percentage of conflict diamonds to still be raking in a major amount of money. People are like "Only a small percentage of diamonds are conflict diamonds!" and yet they don't really think of that in dollar terms. A small percent of billions is still a lot of soldiers and a lot of guns. Diamonds. Are. Not. Rare. Seriously, rarity wise they're probably on par with more semi-precious stones. There isn't really an "ethical diamond" if you want to slice it that way because even forwarding the notion that diamonds should be valuable is massively damaging to many people. Seriously, if the gem-diamond market were to crash overnight there'd still be good mining jobs in developing countries searching for industrial diamonds, but the insane value that allows them to fund wars would be gone. I didn't know about that issue with Canadian diamonds, I guess that further cements my opinions. I think I should go make a GBS thread about diamonds instead of making GBS threads up this thread. Still, let me say this again. Diamonds are not rare. e. I feel it's completely fair to hate on DeBeers not because they have a current role in blood diamonds, but because of their past role in diamonds and their current screwing financially of any country that has diamond mines. If the Nazis had decided the whole holocaust thing maybe wasn't the best PR and changed their policies, I doubt many people would have gone "Oh well, they learned their lesson, our bad." then bought a bunch of Nazi made goods. They're not the only one guilty of this, but they're sure as poo poo the most visible face of it. WAFFLEHOUND fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 18, 2011 |
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Oct 18, 2011 00:09
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You don't have a full picture of what happened in Sierra Leone. Sounds like you're just parroting the movie, and your information is outdated. Ugly diamonds are common, but gem diamonds are not. To find a single gem diamond that when cut provides a 1 carat stone requires moving two thousand tons of rock in an underground mine. That's why they're expensive. DeBeers encouraged demand and for a long time was able to keep out competitors, but once mines were discovered in Australia and Canada that came to an end.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:43
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JohnnyRnR posted:Ugly diamonds are common, but gem diamonds are not. To find a single gem diamond that when cut provides a 1 carat stone requires moving two thousand tons of rock in an underground mine. That's why they're expensive. This isn't exactly accurate. Gem quality diamonds are in massive abundance because moving one ton of igneous rock isn't actually that much rock! Let's see, I actually have the numbers beside me! If we look at the average kimberlite composition, it's basically an altered peridotite. Since the alteration isn't going to change it's weight in a meaningful way of this case, we can look at the combination of olivine and pyroxene. Ignoring compositional variations as relatively irrelevant to this sample, we can view peridotite as having a density of 3.2-3.4 g/cm^3. If we average that out to 3.3 g/cm^3 that's 3300 kg/m3 Wow! That sure seems like a lot! But wait! That's spread out over a huge loving area that's relatively flat, which is the kimberlite walls! These range up to a kilometer! Igneous rocks are dense as poo poo, and using your numbers every time a backhoe takes a swing at a rock in the pipe it's probably going to find a gem quality diamond. One problem is the nubmers you gave me are a bit low, since most gem-baring kimberlites have output closer to ~3 carats per 1000 pounds, and that's from one kimberlite. Frankly I suspect those numbers also include rock that needs to be removed from above the kimberlite as well. Now if you multiply that by all the kimberlite pipes in the world, you're looking at an output in the hundreds of millions of carats a year. If we look at the yearly output of rubies in 2005, which was about 10,000kg, that means there were 50,000,000 carats of rubies mined in the same year there were 130,000,000 carats of diamonds mined. The best number I can find of carats sold per year of diamonds is 114,000,000, so it's not like the supply is outstripping the demand, and that's just yearly, the excess from that mined quantity adds up fast. Diamonds aren't rare. They're a common occurrence in kimberlites along with plenty of other minerals. The best example here is that considering you're looking at an olivine rich mineral, I suspect you'll find the occurrence of peridot is along a similar mass/yield ratio in the exact same host rock. There, am I still parroting movies?  e: JohnnyRnR posted:To find a single gem diamond that when cut provides a 1 carat stone requires moving two thousand tons of rock in an underground mine. I missed this but kimberlite pipes tend to be open faced. Underground mines are more frequently reserved for things that are found in veins, though obviously there are underground diamond mines. e2: But you're still cool, your rocks are still awesome and you're still helpful as hell 
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Oct 18, 2011 02:22
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I don't think people buy diamond rings because they are rare, they buy them because they look good, go with all sorts of outfits, durable in wear, and are the standard in engagement rings and jewelry. It's like Starbucks, it tastes kind of terrible but there are stores everywhere, you can auto-load their cards, it's easy to go in and get your caffeine fix or meet someone or eat a pastry.
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Oct 18, 2011 03:16
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jomiel posted:I don't think people buy diamond rings because they are rare, they buy them because they look good, go with all sorts of outfits, durable in wear, and are the standard in engagement rings and jewelry. Right, but there are other stones with very similar visual properties which are cheaper and don't have the "standard in engagement rings" fact generated by a massive cartel as a marketing ploy. I get what you're saying, but there are plenty of rare stones that are a hell of a lot cheaper than diamonds, I'm talking about the insane prices and inflated sense of rarity that tricks people into thinking they're getting something worth their money, as opposed to something that could lose all value overnight if Russia got pissed off at one company.
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Oct 18, 2011 03:21
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:MINING RATIOS If you'd like to try your hand at finding the common diamond you can always grab a shovel and head over to Crater of Diamonds State Park. It's a kimberlite diamond mine and open to the public.
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Oct 18, 2011 23:03
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say? That one guy with a shovel should get comparable output to a massive mining operation?
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Oct 18, 2011 23:45
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I'm not exactly against what you're saying about diamonds being artificially inflated (my fiance wears a lovely sapphire on her finger ATM), but I think he's saying "stop making GBS threads up the thread."
doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Oct 19, 2011 |
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Oct 19, 2011 00:07
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doctorfrog posted:I'm not exactly against what you're saying about diamonds being artificially inflated (my fiance wears a lovely sapphire on her finger ATM), but I think he's saying "stop making GBS threads up the thread." Alright, sorry it just drives me nuts when people throw the TWO TONS OF ROCK figure around, I shall bow out of this discussion and resume talking about pretty rocks.  Also what's up fiance-with-a-sapphire buddy? 
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Oct 19, 2011 04:09
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 Yep, I read Have You Ever Tried to Sell A Diamond and was similarly filled with rage, but sometimes you got to go with the cultural expectations. Unless your lady likes something with a bit of color, in which case,  
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Oct 19, 2011 04:22
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I've noticed that, at least at the mall-store level, rubies seem to be far less frequently used in Western jewelry than diamonds, emeralds, or sapphires. Am I right about this? And do you have any thoughts about why that might be? I was thinking that there might be a lower demand for rubies, or that they're harder to color treat.
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Oct 19, 2011 16:08
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It isn't so much a question of color, but one of rarity. Fine rubies are available in much smaller quantities than sapphire and emerald (especially with the Myanmar embargo). So the prices wind up being much higher and stores carry fewer pieces.
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Oct 22, 2011 05:07
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Since everyone is talking about how horrible diamonds are I'd thought I'd ask about the one I bought 1.5 carat, princess cut, vs1, color H I think the cert is at home. Since I live in the Middle East I'm willing to bet the prices, like everything else, are either way higher or way lower than what they are in the US. How much would you place a diamond like that at?
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Oct 23, 2011 08:46
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Assuming the diamond is well cut and GIA certified with those grades the USA price would be ~$8,000 to $9,000 USD.
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Oct 23, 2011 14:39
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Alright, this thread kept lingering in my mind when I went price shopping on engagement rings today with my boyfriend. He's still in his last year of undergrad (I just finished in May) and we're both applying for grad schools, so you can imagine we're pretty broke. He'd like to formally propose sometime next year but he wants to get me my dream ring so that kinda ruined the "Surprise! Wanna marry me?" element. Fortunately, I have alternative tastes and I hate diamonds. My dream ring: a simple palladium band with a triangle-cut sapphire. It would be awesome if we could find a small wedding band to go with it, also palladium, with a few small accent stones. Sapphires and maybe a diamond or two if it can't be helped. Allow me to recall today's preliminary shopping adventure! Store number one: an independent husband-and-wife shop in a mid-size town. The guy told me that... 1. Palladium is horrible because it's super brittle and cracks all the time. "It's cheaper, so why isn't everyone wearing it unless it has problems?" 2. Platinum may as well be the Second Coming of Christ. 3. Sapphires aren't nearly as chip-resistant as diamonds, and my choice of cut wouldn't be as nice and shiny as a round diamond. 4. My ring size is 4.5. 5. "Oh, you wouldn't be wearing it at work? Why get a ring you're not going to wear?" I tried to tell him it's because I work with wild animals such as parrots that LOVE shiny objects and would bite my finger off in a heartbeat, but he was so insistent that I'm some vapid three-month-salary girly girl that he wouldn't listen to what I had to say. He just lost my business. Store number two: an independent large (and very profitable) shop in the middle of a mid-size city. This guy said... 1. Palladium acts much like platinum and can be reshaped. 2. Sapphires can chip over time, but their hardness does hold up as a good gem for frequent wear. 3. My ring size is a 4.0. By this point we were confused about very conflicting assessments on palladium and sapphires, so we went to ask the mall jewelry stores for opinions. Not to buy anything at their 600% markup, but at least get more info. Kays: "Oh, palladium? It acts like platinum. It's pretty sturdy and could always be reshaped, though we don't carry it." Zales: "We don't carry that. Ask someone else. I'm not very familiar with it since we don't stock anything except 10k and 14k gold, platinum, and a little silver." A store I forget: "It depends on purity since it's made from around seven different metals." (I called bullshit on this one after we left. I know my periodic table of elements!) Helzberg: "I wish they had palladium around when I was getting married, I would have gotten one myself! My platinum ring scratches all the time and palladium is sturdier. We can special-order everything you want, it would be $899 for the band and approx. $450 for the stone. Then we could discuss financing..." Macy's: "What are you talking about? I don't understand you. Pall-aww-dium? Is that like platinum?" Help me goons, I'm so confused! Who is right and on what? Is this idea feasible?
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Oct 25, 2011 03:29
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Just shooting from the hip here, I'd say what you're asking is definitely possible, but it might take you some time to find what you're looking for. Truth be told, even though I worked as a jeweler for a few years somewhat recently, I still don't know much about palladium because none of my goldsmiths were willing to work with it. One was, maybe, but they much preferred gold or platinum. Just going off of hearsay - Johnny or anyone else, feel free to correct me - but it is a tad more brittle and that makes all the difference when setting a stone or bending a prong into place. Plus you have to get all new supplies to work with an all new metal, and most jewelers aren't going to do that if they don't think the demand is there. Which, from what I've seen, it isn't really since palladium just doesn't have a strong marketing campaign behind it. Were I you, I'd start looking at custom jewelers online and getting quotes from all the designers you can find. There's only so much that someone can bullshit you through an email, and it's a lot easier to talk to more people and filter out the bad info when it takes you five minutes to send out your request. On a non palladium related note, do you know exactly how you want to set your sapphire? Trillions aren't a common shape for engagement rings (or most other rings) and you're probably going to have to do some hand holding during the customization process or you'll end up with something you don't like. Be prepared to be firm with people and don't be afraid to be super specific with what you want, as long as you aren't bitchy about it. Having pictures of what you want helps too.
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Oct 25, 2011 11:32
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This is a total shot in the dark, but this thread has completely piqued my interest. I'm studying materials science and engineering, with a concentration in metals. Do MatSE people work in the jewelry industry? I might seriously consider applying a few places if it's a viable degree that is useful in the industry.
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Oct 25, 2011 23:37
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Re: Palladium. I don't know how common it is as a pure metal for jewelry but it is used as an alloying element for one type of white gold (there's several types). If you live in an area with high pollution, it may be more prone to tarnishing due to sulfur in the atmosphere. Look around and you'll find someone willing to work with it, I'm sure. Re: MSE in Jewelry I have an MSE degree myself. You may or may not be aware that MSE is an incredibly broad subject. I don't know how the jewelry industry operates but I imagine a lot of the crap at Kay's is mass produced, which could certainly use a metallurgist. However, given that I doubt there's a lot of manufacturers, I think what you'll find is that there's few jobs out there in the jewelry industry. In other words, yes, there are jobs for you in the jewelry industry but they'll be much more manufacturing-related. It will probably be similar (though obviously different) from other casting operations.
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Oct 26, 2011 00:28
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Rootbeer Baron posted:On a non palladium related note, do you know exactly how you want to set your sapphire? Trillions aren't a common shape for engagement rings (or most other rings) and you're probably going to have to do some hand holding during the customization process or you'll end up with something you don't like. Be prepared to be firm with people and don't be afraid to be super specific with what you want, as long as you aren't bitchy about it. Having pictures of what you want helps too. Thanks for the post. A single trillion sapphire on a plain, shiny band works for me. After my first day I figured I have to be very specific and rigid unless I want to let some jerk upsell me by $2k that my boyfriend simply doesn't have. Imagine this, except the stone is triangular (and not exceeding 5mm in size since my hands are kinda small):  From what I've read, jewelry-quality palladium is usually 95% pure with the addition of 5% ruthenium (also a platinum group metal) for malleability.
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Oct 26, 2011 01:20
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We bought my sapphire ring from thenaturalsapphirecompany.com, and searching on their site definitely allows you to get a palladium setting and a trillion stone. I think the store was rated okay in this thread, but you can at least get some ideas about pricing through their site and base your search from there. It doesn't seem like they have a ton of trillion cut blue sapphires but I'm sure they can find something you like if you ask.
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Oct 26, 2011 01:52
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I'm always split on palladium. It's a durable metal and has no issues with wear, but it's temperamental. It doesn't like to be bent or worked. Things like resizing and repair can be a problem. Palladium is a fine jewelry metal, but platinum will always be king for durability and quality.totalnewbie posted:In other words, yes, there are jobs for you in the jewelry industry but they'll be much more manufacturing-related. It will probably be similar (though obviously different) from other casting operations. This is pretty much spot on. The only jewelry companies that would need an MSE are the largest ones (Tiffany, Richemont, LVMH, etc). But some of the larger casting, refining, or specialty alloy shops might need someone.
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Oct 26, 2011 04:47
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TunaSpleen - good on you for not putting up with crap from lovely salesmen. I hate it when people tell me what I want - especially when there's a safety issue. I really hope you guys find what you want (and post pics, because it sounds really nice!)
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Oct 26, 2011 10:48
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I would like to know more about how to negotiate with a jeweler about the price of an engagement ring after you find something you like. Additionally and as someone who has no idea what the price of anything is worth, is it appropriate to ask to have something appraised by another jeweler before making a purchase?
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Oct 26, 2011 22:48
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Reading this thread in a couple of huge sittings made me realize a couple of things about myself and what I want, so today I registered myself for some jewelry-making classes at a local studio. I don't know if I'll be any good at it, but I intend to find out!
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Oct 27, 2011 00:54
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merk posted:I would like to know more about how to negotiate with a jeweler about the price of an engagement ring after you find something you like. Additionally and as someone who has no idea what the price of anything is worth, is it appropriate to ask to have something appraised by another jeweler before making a purchase? Well, you need to have a fair idea of the wholesale value and markup. Just asking for a random discount won't do much good and you'll look foolish. Feel free to PM me with what you're buying and I can give you some price points. If you don't trust your jeweler you shouldn't be buying from them. Depending where you live there may be a gemological lab in the area, and it isn't uncommon to request the pieces be sent to the lab for an independent report on the qualities. Ask the gemologist if he agrees with the grades on any diamond certificates you've been shown. Some reports, EGL-Israel comes to mind, are generally over graded by a factor of 2 color and 2 clarity grades. Springheel Jill posted:Reading this thread in a couple of huge sittings made me realize a couple of things about myself and what I want, so today I registered myself for some jewelry-making classes at a local studio. That's great! You're going to have a lot of fun!
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Oct 27, 2011 03:12
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I'm more or less completely new to buying jewelry. I'm looking for a pretty simple engagement ring - would a small jewelry shop on Etsy be a terrible place to look? e: More details would probably help here: ideally I'd like something in white gold with a single wee diamond. I've seen a couple of pieces that look nice to me, I just don't know what information to look for, really. Just an example: does this seem reasonable? Is there any information that should be there that isn't? I may be asking partially because I don't want this thread to die.  It's so interesting! I actually took a metalwork jewelry class this summer - I was a little disappointed that we didn't have time for any sculpted/cast pieces.
Clockwork Cupcake fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Nov 21, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 10:02
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I wanted to get suggestions for a necklace for my wife, but didn't know if this was the right thread to do that. There isn't a Jewelry Gift Buying thread, is there?
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Nov 30, 2011 19:43
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Clockwork Cupcake posted:I'm looking for a pretty simple engagement ring - would a small jewelry shop on Etsy be a terrible place to look? I'm really sorry. I thought I had replied to your message earlier. Things have been very busy as of late. Etsy can be a blessing and a curse. On one hand you have true hobbyists that make and sell jewelry for fun. Their quality is high and their prices can be well below the cost of buying from anyone that has to make a profit to stay in business. But on the other hand you also have overseas factories busting out junk with fraudulent descriptions. You really have to be careful. That diamond ring looks to be A-OK. I don't think I could make a single one of that design for the same money. 
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Dec 3, 2011 04:33
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We're past the Christmas cutoff on these. Any more ordered won't be ready until the first week of January. I hope that everyone enjoys their gifts.dexter6 posted:There isn't a Jewelry Gift Buying thread, is there? There isn't one, but another goon placed an order today and it inspired me to do something that might make things easier for everyone. Six months ago or so I set up a private web store for SA Goons. It's password protected and not open to the general public. Prices for loose gemstones are set at the same level that I charge other jewelers when I sell gems to them. I was surprised how many goons took advantage of it. Today I added a pair of pre-picked Jewelry Setups. Buy a setup package with a gemstone and I'll set it in the pendant of the appropriate size and shape. A custom piece of gemstone jewelry with two clicks. Each of the setups is a pendant mounting, matching chain, and a gift box. I've run the math a few times and a finished setup is about half the price of buying one from a department store or mall jeweler.  Any orders that need Christmas delivery need to be placed by December 9th. After that I won't be able to guarantee they arrive in time. I'm not trying to get rich on these. Just moving my loose gem inventory and hooking up goons. http://gemdirect.myshopify.com/ Password: goonpuppies JohnnyRnR fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 13, 2011 |
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Dec 3, 2011 04:55
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JohnnyRnR posted:I'm really sorry. I thought I had replied to your message earlier. Things have been very busy as of late. It's no problem, thank you for answering! I did notice some pretty suspect listings while I was browsing around for rings with designs I liked. I ended up ordering one of those diamond rings from that seller.
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Dec 3, 2011 05:03
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I have a beautiful Swarovski necklace and the chain's broken  unfortunately it's the kind of necklace where the crystals are actually attached to the chain so I can't just swap them onto another one, and Swarovski said they wouldn't help at all - they wouldn't even fix it if I paid them for it! Charming.Here's the necklace - Johnny (or anyone else), is there any way this can be fixed or made into a new necklace? I love it   
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Dec 4, 2011 22:46
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You're in luck that it looks like an easy fix. Any jeweler would be able to clip off the old chain at the jump ring and affix a new length of snake chain. If the existing chain is pretty worn then you may just want to have all the chain replaced so it will match.
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Dec 4, 2011 23:49
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JohnnyRnR posted:You're in luck that it looks like an easy fix. Any jeweler would be able to clip off the old chain at the jump ring and affix a new length of snake chain. If the existing chain is pretty worn then you may just want to have all the chain replaced so it will match. Amazing news! Don't know why Swarovski wouldn't do that for me. Thanks heaps for answering
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Dec 4, 2011 23:54
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jomiel posted:We bought my sapphire ring from thenaturalsapphirecompany.com, and searching on their site definitely allows you to get a palladium setting and a trillion stone. I think the store was rated okay in this thread, but you can at least get some ideas about pricing through their site and base your search from there. Man, sorry that this is late, but seconding this. My engagement/wedding ring came from there and it's lovely, and according to my husband, they were great to work with.
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Dec 5, 2011 05:27
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What is a reasonable amount to pay for a certified appraisal of a single piece, i.e. a ring containing several diamonds?
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Dec 5, 2011 19:09
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Most stores charge $75-$100 and request that you leave your jewelry. Some stores will do appraisals while you wait, but those are typically double the cost.
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Dec 6, 2011 16:36
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This thread has been really useful and I'm glad I found it. After reading through everything, however, I haven't seen a lot of advice for selling more expensive jewelry. The OP is kind of useful, particularly for understanding how prices are determined on appraisal docs, but I was wondering if anyone would have any more specific suggestions. I was given a fairly expensive 18k gold ruby ring by my parents with the expectation that I sell it to help pay for my wedding so that they wouldn't have to pay for anything out of pocket. The ring's appraisal documents are from January 2001 and at that time the replacement cost was about $3600, $1600 for the ruby and $2000 for the mounting. Given current gold prices I'm sure the total value is a good deal more now. I'm guessing it's worthwhile to get a new appraisal before I sell the ring, but is there a more preferable way to sell higher-value jewelry? This isn't something I'd want to sell on Craigslist or at a pawn shop, but I'm also unsure just how much interest I'd get from a local jeweler as far as buying the whole piece. Is that going to remain my best bet?
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Dec 7, 2011 22:39
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