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Bought a can tap so I can try my, frankly horrible, idea of using PC Duster to fill the R12 system on my Audi. Gonna go have it vacuumed down and leak tested beforehand by a shop.
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 15:34
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CommieGIR posted:Bought a can tap so I can try my, frankly horrible, idea of using PC Duster to fill the R12 system on my Audi. Gonna go have it vacuumed down and leak tested beforehand by a shop. Duster cans have R134a or R152, and sometimes an agent to keep people from huffing them.
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Jul 30, 2015 17:24
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EightBit posted:Duster cans have R134a or R152, and sometimes an agent to keep people from huffing them. Hoping its R152, since that is what I am going for, and most of them have switched to R152 due to the cost of R134 (and there is some new laws regulating the use/disposal of R134)
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Jul 30, 2015 17:34
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Backstory: I bought a used 2008 STI this past winter. This past spring, the AC pulley bearing went bad and I believe the friction related heat melted the wire insulation of the electromagnet coil. I cut the AC belt off (it's a stretch fit belt) and proceeded to drive it until last week until I decided to fix it. The compressor turned pretty easily by hand so I figured that it was fine, and just replaced the AC clutch, pulley, and coil with used parts. I have a compressor as well but didn't want to deal with recharging the system. Problem: The AC makes a whirring/whiney type noise when the AC is on and the car is idling (800-1200 rpm). The noise nearly entirely goes away at 1500 rpm and above. It's blowing cool (not really cold) air. There's no noise when the AC is off. The clutch activates okay and doesn't visibly slip. It's not a squealing sound and it's a new stretch fit belt so I don't think that's a problem. There was no play in the pulley bearing and it spun freely, and there's no sound when the AC is not activated so I don't think the bearing is the problem either. Any thoughts? I'm guessing the compressor is bad. I can't check the pressures at the moment as my manifold gauges are 800 miles away.
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Jul 30, 2015 17:57
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CommieGIR posted:Hoping its R152, since that is what I am going for, and most of them have switched to R152 due to the cost of R134 (and there is some new laws regulating the use/disposal of R134) I've just been through this for myself. R152 is difluoroethylene. R134 is tetrafluoroethylene. It always seems to be written on the label. Dust-Off is difluoroethylene, so just grab some Dust-Off form Walmart. Both are available in air duster form, so you shouldn't have too much legal trouble if you buy it as duster.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:14
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:I've just been through this for myself. R152 is difluoroethylene. R134 is tetrafluoroethylene. It always seems to be written on the label. Dust-Off is difluoroethylene, so just grab some Dust-Off form Walmart. Cool, I'll double check the label to be sure, I was a little worried about that.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:55
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1995 Lexus SC400 total system capacity: 1.65 pounds of R-134a, 4.8 ounces of ND-8 (or equivalent) oil. You can get a Denso replacement compressor for an SC400 for $300 from Rockauto in the US. I am far from an expert, but isn't ester oil recommended when converting R-12 systems to R-134a, since it will work with either refrigerant? Let's see some pictures of that Soarer.
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Jul 30, 2015 20:38
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:I've just been through this for myself. R152 is difluoroethylene. R134 is tetrafluoroethylene. It always seems to be written on the label. Dust-Off is difluoroethylene, so just grab some Dust-Off form Walmart. What is a cheap source for a side tap for the cans? Advance Auto wants $30 for one, which seems like way too much.
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Jul 30, 2015 20:40
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PBCrunch posted:1995 Lexus SC400 total system capacity: 1.65 pounds of R-134a, 4.8 ounces of ND-8 (or equivalent) oil. Thanks man, I have no idea if it's got R12 or R134 in it right now, or the type of oil. Thanks for the charging weights. Hilariously I bought a Denso SC400 condenser from ebay US (£125 including postage to the UK!) because it was cheaper than a genuine Toyota one (and there are no aftermarket Soarer ones). The UZZ32 has slight differences to pretty much every engine ancillary, including the AC compressor (it has a long leg at the back for attachment, and a different front mounting to work with the huge timing plate). I have two Soarers (had 3 at one point), all active UZZ32's, and run a project log on my facebook page for all the poo poo they put me through (a lot). I can make a thread here if there's any interest? They are pretty unique cars. I bought a cheap (£15) can tap from Amazon. It didn't have a built in schrader valve though, and was noticeably cheaper built than the Mastercool ones which appear in all the Youtube videos. $30 sounds about right - you won't find them much cheaper. Here's a pic of the current fleet, on the day the green one made it home:  (that lovely gold Lexus badge was gone within 15 minutes) Pomp and Circumcized fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 20:48
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I think my robinair one from amazon was around $20 and much nicer than the previous mastercool one. You could take it to a shop that has testing equipment to figure out what refrigerant is in the car.
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Jul 31, 2015 07:34
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mafoose posted:You could take it to a shop that has testing equipment to figure out what refrigerant is in the car. Thanks, knowing all the shops around here, they will take one look and tell me it's R134a, then try to sell me R134a. Judging by the fittings, it probably is filled with R134a, because who changes the fittings and then puts illegal R12 back in? My issue is whether the system was flushed and the oil replaced, and if so, with what kind of oil. I don't know what oil is in there, what oil is good for the compressor (I assume ester oil for aR12 compressor?), or what oil works well with R152. I will need to go to a shop anyway to have the refrigerant recovered.
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Jul 31, 2015 09:52
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:
I'd be in for a project thread!
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Jul 31, 2015 15:42
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Reporting back on my quest to fill my AC system with PC Duster (R152) It worked like a charm:   Its blowing nice and cold, at least 50, and then blew cold as I drove down for guard weekend (150+ miles)
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Aug 1, 2015 03:10
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:Hilariously I bought a Denso SC400 condenser from ebay US (£125 including postage to the UK!) because it was cheaper than a genuine Toyota one (and there are no aftermarket Soarer ones). Denso is the OEM for most Toyota parts (including compressors), and at one time, was even owned by them. ... and you did mean compressor, right?  I see I'm not the only one with the $55 AutoZone gauges.
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Aug 1, 2015 06:05
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some texas redneck posted:Denso is the OEM for most Toyota parts (including compressors), and at one time, was even owned by them. Nah, it's my condensor that's bad (all the fins have rotten off, even though it still holds pressure). The compressors are no longer available anywhere, I'd be pretty hosed if I broke mine - the current solution to broken UZZ32 compressors is to buy a SC400 one and make a frankenpressor with its internals, using the '32 ends, but then you're into the world of shims and plate thickness on several components and it's pot luck whether you'll get the thing to work or not. And yes, pretty much everything in the car has Denso or Aisin written on it somewhere  .Pomp and Circumcized fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Aug 1, 2015 |
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Aug 1, 2015 06:54
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some texas redneck posted:Denso is the OEM for most Toyota parts (including compressors), and at one time, was even owned by them. Man, I was all set to buy those until I saw the gauge faces and realised they aren't marked anything like the OP and I ended up springing for the $100+ ones, which are fantastic. Those cheapies look like the gauge that comes on the big can of R134 with the trigger on it, IE, useless. I suppose I'm wrong though since two of you guys managed to do something right with them.
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Aug 1, 2015 11:37
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I wish I could find a hi/low pressure chart that goes BELOW 65F/18C. Some of us are in the middle of winter and use our AC to Defog here!
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Aug 1, 2015 11:41
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Ferremit posted:I wish I could find a hi/low pressure chart that goes BELOW 65F/18C. Some of us are in the middle of winter and use our AC to Defog here! I had to do my AC in a 110 degree garage with a horse barn fan for ventilation. I'm sure you know all about awful temps down in 'rooLand though.
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Aug 1, 2015 11:46
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BloodBag posted:I had to do my AC in a 110 degree garage with a horse barn fan for ventilation. I'm sure you know all about awful temps down in 'rooLand though. Yeah, I changed a cv joint on a 4wd in a shed that was hitting 53 degrees air temp with the only relief being the 43 degree breeze blowing though... It's certainly not easy doing AC work when your max temps for the week are "12"
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Aug 1, 2015 12:09
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Ferremit posted:I wish I could find a hi/low pressure chart that goes BELOW 65F/18C. Some of us are in the middle of winter and use our AC to Defog here! http://www.csgnetwork.com/r134apresstempconv.html Also, to the "I don't know what's in there" people: you already know what you need to do but are looking for a shortcut. There isn't one. Recover, flush, start from the beginning.
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Aug 1, 2015 16:47
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Motronic posted:flush My god that solvent is harsh. Makes brake part cleaner look like fresh spring water. Effective as hell tho.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:22
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Motronic posted:Also, to the "I don't know what's in there" people: you already know what you need to do but are looking for a shortcut. There isn't one. Recover, flush, start from the beginning. You're right. Damnit.
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Aug 1, 2015 17:57
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Is there any good metric to go by on how often your newly filled ac system should cycle? At idle and fan speed at 2(out of 4) my car will have the compressor running nearly constantly (900 rpm) at 85 deg F and low humidity. If I'm driving in traffic (2000-3000 rpm) its more like 8-20 seconds on and 5-12 seconds off. Thats a rough estimate. I guess Im just looking for any telltale signs that my compressor is dieing a horrible clutch burning death if its cycling too much.
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Aug 1, 2015 21:30
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Where the hell do you dispose of recovered refrigerant, especially if you don't know what it is? I know I'll eventually end up with a small portable recovery machine/tank, if only because my '92 3000GT with R12 will eventually need a conversion or AC repair, but I'd have no idea what to do with the old refrigerant. If I were recovering a working system to replace something, I'd just make sure to use a filter and then reuse the same refrigerant, but how do you handle an unknown refrigerant? R12 is a special case, I know that you'd probably want to keep and reuse if possible.
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Aug 1, 2015 21:33
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Take the car to an AC place and ask them to remove the refrigerant. You won't get it back. They will assume it is R12 or R134 depending on valve type/label under hood and charge you accordingly. No point removing your own R12 with the intention of putting it back in the car as you will lose some during the two transfers, and will need to get more from ~somwehere~. You will also contaminate it with the air in the container you use to temporarily hold it (you can never pull a perfect vacuum). This is probably different too the US where I believe you can still purchase R12. Edit: Nice car. 3000GT/GTO's are on my 'must buy' list. Facelift model for me, though.
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Aug 1, 2015 21:46
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SomethingOrAnother posted:Is there any good metric to go by on how often your newly filled ac system should cycle? At idle and fan speed at 2(out of 4) my car will have the compressor running nearly constantly (900 rpm) at 85 deg F and low humidity. If I'm driving in traffic (2000-3000 rpm) its more like 8-20 seconds on and 5-12 seconds off. Thats a rough estimate. I guess Im just looking for any telltale signs that my compressor is dieing a horrible clutch burning death if its cycling too much. Not without knowing exactly what kind of system it is, what the temperature is and exactly what RPMs you are turning. Otherwise known as "not a useful diagnostic method unless you happen to know how it acted when it was new/recently filled with a proper charge weight." Too many variables. ShittyPostmakerPro posted:This is probably different too the US where I believe you can still purchase R12. It's still very expensive in the US because it can't be manufactured. All that is left is new old stock and recovered/recycled. I'm sitting on a stash of NOS that I should have sold this spring. Dammit. I just remembered that. It's probably $600 worth of cans that I have no intention of using. I suppose ebay prices are still up as we go into august. Maybe I'll get on that.
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Aug 1, 2015 23:23
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Motronic posted:http://www.csgnetwork.com/r134apresstempconv.html I was hoping for something like this one  for the running temps when your adding refrigerant to a system. its fine if i can get my shed up over 18 degrees with the fireplace but not quite so much when its 10 degrees outside.
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Aug 2, 2015 02:54
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Ferremit posted:I was hoping for something like this one Remember that when the ambient air temperature is wildly different than the temperature a vehicle runs at the ambient stops really mattering much when you're at a standstill. Now you're left to figure out what the average temperature of the refrigerant/AC system might be based on engine heat. There's really no good way of doing it, other than recovery and recharge by weight or taking a guess by pressures.
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Aug 2, 2015 17:17
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I am happy to report my R152 expiriment held out all weekend during my Guard Weekend duty. On the downside: I have a slow leak somewhere, and the car is having issues returning to idle, tries to stall all the time.
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Aug 3, 2015 02:26
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CommieGIR posted:I am happy to report my R152 expiriment held out all weekend during my Guard Weekend duty. ONE OF US! ONE OF US! CommieGIR posted:On the downside: I have a slow leak somewhere, and the car is having issues returning to idle, tries to stall all the time. Beauty of R152: at least it's gonna be cheap to put back in of that's the issue. Hopefully you have some dye in there to find it easily.
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Aug 3, 2015 02:47
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Motronic posted:ONE OF US! ONE OF US! It made the 150 miles drive much more tolerable. So much more. Question: I noticed the air was cycling from lukecold to cold and lukecold again and again. Is that a cycling issue? I'm tempted to do all the seals and replace the receiver drier.
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Aug 3, 2015 03:27
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If the pressures are good, it could be a failing TXV. Is your condenser fan working?
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Aug 3, 2015 03:33
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mafoose posted:If the pressures are good, it could be a failing TXV. Is your condenser fan working? Yup, all fans are working, as soon as the compressor kicks on the condenser fan goes full blast until I turn off the AC. Where is the Thermal Expansion Valve normally found in a car AC system?
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Aug 3, 2015 03:40
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If it's a Thermostatic Expansion Valve (what that acronym actually stands for), it has to read the evaporator temperature, so it pretty much has to be in the evaporator case. If it's a fixed orifice tube, could be anywhere on the line connecting the condenser outlet to the evaporator, but it's usually accessible from the engine bay, and generally close to the firewall. No idea which setup your car has.
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Aug 3, 2015 04:00
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Enourmo posted:If it's a Thermostatic Expansion Valve (what that acronym actually stands for), it has to read the evaporator temperature, so it pretty much has to be in the evaporator case. Seems to be a fixed orifice tube, Rockauto carries it. Gotta figure out where it is in the system.
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Aug 3, 2015 04:10
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Interesting. Most "higher end" cars have TXV systems. If it is indeed an orifice tube, see if you can get a variable one for it.
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Aug 3, 2015 04:22
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mafoose posted:Interesting. Asked around, people are telling me its in the engine by where the lines enter the firewall.
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Aug 3, 2015 05:00
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That doesn't sound completely awful. Most cap tubes are in the recover dryer. Txv's are almost always are buried in the dash or engine bay.
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Aug 3, 2015 05:36
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So I finally took Motronics advice from last year and replaced my condenser. Anyone know if this is still good to use? Just wondering if the replacement was necessary...  
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Aug 4, 2015 05:05
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:So I finally took Motronics advice from last year and replaced my condenser. Anyone know if this is still good to use? Just wondering if the replacement was necessary... You could probably stick it in the oven, reflow the solder on the cooling vanes and be could to go. (god drat son)
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Aug 4, 2015 05:12
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