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Hughmoris posted:Assuming we all make it through this with our jobs and health intact, will anyone else be looking for deals on anything in particular? We were planning on getting some sort of wagon for my wife next summer, if we end up surviving. If there are deals earlier, maybe we move that up? Wonder if there will be a cash for clunkers 2.0.
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Mar 21, 2020 11:43
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Let’s hope not re: Cash For Clunkers. Environmental consequences aside, C4C removed a ton of low-end vehicles from the market that were previously generally available for lower-income folks to own and created scarcity while there was still demand for them which ultimately raised used vehicle prices on a cohort that had the least ability to cope with increased costs. I haven’t seen data supporting it but I have to suspect said vehicles’ removal from the market has also in part amplified the rise of buy-here pay-here lots over the past decade.
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Mar 21, 2020 13:18
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yeah c 4 c was terrible if they really want to move cars should just pour money in to EVs and hybrids, maybe cars getting above X fuel economy, and apply cash at point of sale rather than fuckin about with tax credits that don't help lower income people
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Mar 21, 2020 14:38
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Yeah, there's a lot of debate back and forth whether C4C was a net good/bad thing. Wonder how auto dealer lobbies feel about it!
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Mar 21, 2020 15:04
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Over the past few days I have been looking at auto industry stocks to try and figure out which are going to melt down even further (spoiler: most of them) but beyond Ford ($156bn debt) and GM ($104bn) are the large auto dealer chains. Penske ($PAG) has $28 million in cash on hand and is carrying $8.7bn in debt. Lithia ($LAD): $82n cash, $3.8bn debt. Autonation ($AN): $42m cash, $6bn debt. The list goes on. We can’t keep doing this.
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Mar 21, 2020 15:20
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Penske was one of the rich car owners pissing and moaning about the grand prix being cancelled saying everything is fine it's just the flu why are we doing this blah blah blah. gently caress him and all the other rich assholes that clearly don't give a poo poo about the non 1%
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Mar 21, 2020 16:29
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I've been craving a Miata for a long time, and while I have a multi-year plan to acquire one, the right deal could make that a right now plan. Just use your Trumpbucks checks on an older one
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Mar 21, 2020 18:24
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I've been craving a Miata for a long time, and while I have a multi-year plan to acquire one, the right deal could make that a right now plan. Before the outbreak started I was looking at new miata inventory in 500 miles of me and there were like 3 cars, only 1 manual. I wonder if it was just because the 20s haven't arrived yet so you may have better luck now. Considering mazda is doing 0.9% financing on them, custom order, build it exactly how you want it, go to several dealers and see who will give you the best discount.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:52
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Penske was one of the rich car owners pissing and moaning about the grand prix being cancelled saying everything is fine it's just the flu why are we doing this blah blah blah. He owns the sport and IMS now, the Hulman Georges sold it last year.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:18
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Ventilator makers will soon be saving $0.25 per unit by making all the touchpoints out of recycled milk jugs. https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/mar/0320-coronavirus-update-4-vent.html quote:GM and Ventec Life Systems, in cooperation with StopTheSpread.org, the nation's coordinated private sector response to the COVID-19, are collaborating to enable Ventec to increase production of its respiratory care products to support the growing fight against the COVID-19 pandemic. Ventec will leverage GM’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build more of their critically important ventilators. To support these efforts, StopTheSpread.org will continue to unite business leaders across the country to collect resources to complement and support government efforts.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:33
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I'm not sure if I'm more afraid of dying because no ventilators is available or ending up on a GM engineered ventilator.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:45
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Previa_fun posted:I'm not sure if I'm more afraid of dying because no ventilators is available or ending up on a GM engineered ventilator. As long as it's the powertrain engineers and not the ones who build the interiors they should be great.
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Mar 21, 2020 22:05
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Previa_fun posted:I'm not sure if I'm more afraid of dying because no ventilators is available or ending up on a GM engineered ventilator. YOLOsubmarine posted:As long as it's the powertrain engineers and not the ones who build the interiors they should be great. MyFordTouchVentilator Everything is a touch screen
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Mar 21, 2020 22:15
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Ventilators covered in 75% piano black gloss plastic, just you wait.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:18
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YOLOsubmarine posted:As long as it's the powertrain engineers and not the ones who build the interiors they should be great. I can’t wait for the “Real People, Not Actors” ventilator commercials.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:25
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smooth jazz posted:Ventilators covered in 75% piano black gloss plastic, just you wait. Nah, it’s american automakers so fake wood grained plastic. Gotta keep the ICU classy.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:28
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drgitlin posted:He owns the sport and IMS now, the Hulman Georges sold it last year. That's right I forgot. What a douche, I lost all respect for him when I saw him on local news acting like the people that run this city are a bunch of idiots. Yeah gently caress this city that's trying to protect it's residents! Idiot.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:32
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YOLOsubmarine posted:As long as it's the powertrain engineers and not the ones who build the interiors they should be great. "the patient's left lung collapsed" "cylinder deactivation!"
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Mar 22, 2020 01:32
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Applebees Appetizer posted:That's right I forgot. What a douche, I lost all respect for him when I saw him on local news acting like the people that run this city are a bunch of idiots. For me it was seeing him take all his teams to the White House for cold McDonalds and then getting the medal of freedom from Trump.
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Mar 22, 2020 10:55
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drgitlin posted:For me it was seeing him take all his teams to the White House for cold McDonalds and then getting the medal of freedom from Trump. Jesus Christ gently caress that guy. He's probably out in the middle of the Gulf right now on his giant yacht that he brings here every year for the race (seriously, it's loving huge and dwarfs everything around it), having supplies helicoptered in and laughing at all the poors getting the corona virus while he smokes cigars and eats shrimp cocktail.
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Mar 22, 2020 14:52
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Jesus Christ gently caress that guy. He's probably out in the middle of the Gulf right now on his giant yacht that he brings here every year for the race (seriously, it's loving huge and dwarfs everything around it), having supplies helicoptered in and laughing at all the poors getting the corona virus while he smokes cigars and eats shrimp cocktail. 
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Mar 22, 2020 17:51
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Tremek posted:Over the past few days I have been looking at auto industry stocks to try and figure out which are going to melt down even further (spoiler: most of them) but beyond Ford ($156bn debt) and GM ($104bn) are the large auto dealer chains. most of the debt is floor plan financing for the dealer groups. it's collateralized by the new vehicle inventory the stores are carrying. it's a little bit ugly if people stop buying cars but the bank is probably gonna work with them on those. not sure where your numbers came from since Penske's most recent 10-K indicates $4bn in floorplan debt and $2.3bn in non-floorplan debt (that one is the problem number).
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Mar 23, 2020 14:50
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Previa_fun posted:I'm not sure if I'm more afraid of dying because no ventilators is available or ending up on a GM engineered ventilator. GM engineering is pretty good, if there's money-no-object and the cost side guys don't get in to it you'll probably get a good product.
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Mar 23, 2020 14:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:GM engineering is pretty good, if there's money-no-object and the cost side guys don't get in to it you'll probably get a good product. Quoting this. The barrier for GM the past 50 years has been its accountants.
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Mar 23, 2020 15:18
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So, which manufacturer is going to fold/be absorbed by another? Some economic leaders are saying we could be looking at 30% unemployment in the next quarter. It make less sense to prop up every automaker when they'll all be at zero production in the near term and greatly reduced production in the medium term. This seems like exactly the time when we're going to undergo a massive market correction.
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Mar 23, 2020 15:52
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General Ford Motors Motor Company Company. Trash the Silverado, double production of F-150. Jeep and Ram bought off FIAT by Blackstone, rest sold for scrap.
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Mar 23, 2020 15:57
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LibCrusher posted:General Ford Motors Motor Company Company. Trash the Silverado, double production of F-150. Wouldn't it be easier to call it "the American Motor Company"? 
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Mar 23, 2020 16:03
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Nidhg00670000 posted:Wouldn't it be easier to call it "the American Motor Company"? Matador Edition Ram truck 
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Mar 23, 2020 16:12
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bull3964 posted:So, which manufacturer is going to fold/be absorbed by another? Gotta be Nissan. They were already in bad shape pre-economy tanking. Also I said earlier in this thread I'd be surprised if Nissan was still around in 5 years so I want to look like some kind of oracle.
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Mar 23, 2020 16:39
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TheWevel posted:Gotta be Nissan. They were already in bad shape pre-economy tanking. Also I said earlier in this thread I'd be surprised if Nissan was still around in 5 years so I want to look like some kind of oracle. Speaking of Nissan, the Kicks was the only rental car I've ever returned after a few miles because of how cheap, flimsy and gutless it felt. The Golf Sportwagen (a.k.a. Jetta with a big ole butt) I got in exchange felt and drove much better.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:44
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:most of the debt is floor plan financing for the dealer groups. it's collateralized by the new vehicle inventory the stores are carrying. it's a little bit ugly if people stop buying cars but the bank is probably gonna work with them on those. Numbers are from PAG's balance sheet as reported by a ton of different sources:  This is from their most recent 8K filed last month:  My understanding is Net Debt = (Short-term debt + Long-term debt) - (Cash + Cash equivalents). I'm reasonably confident this sorta fancy adding-and-subtracting is literally why you get paid the big bucks but when they have $28m cash on hand after doing hundreds of millions of stock buybacks last year, and your assets are equal to your liabilities and the bottom just fell out of your industry: does it matter?
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Mar 24, 2020 00:32
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bull3964 posted:So, which manufacturer is going to fold/be absorbed by another? Since Nissan was already mentioned, I will make a bold prediction of Mazda being fully absorbed into the Toyota Group.
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Mar 24, 2020 01:21
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Godzilla07 posted:Since Nissan was already mentioned, I will make a bold prediction of Mazda being fully absorbed into the Toyota Group. You need to be big to survive, because the car industry needs a lot of scale in terms of shared platforms especially now that electrification is going to be mandated, and also because too big to fail. Now that Chrysler owns both Opel and PSA there's no way anything happens to them, Mazda on the other hand...well that new rotary powered sports car probably isn't coming any time soon.
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Mar 24, 2020 01:25
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Fantasy Booking car manufacturers is always fun because I want to image what insane poo poo the Honda Type R guys would do to GTRs and MX-5s
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Mar 24, 2020 08:34
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Elon promised a thousand ventilators last week and they actually showed up today https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1242247777708576770?s=19
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Mar 24, 2020 13:36
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Tremek posted:Numbers are from PAG's balance sheet as reported by a ton of different sources: long term debt probably isn't an issue YET because it hasn't come due - unless you think the car buying/selling industry is permanently, structurally hosed. more important is current liabilities and it's almost all floor plan notes. i agree their balance sheet and cast position is not good for sure! but you can't just look at net debt and throw up your hands and say "well they're hosed because the net debt number is real big" the floorplan debt is offset directly by assets, and most of their other debt is long term - so if the crisis is like 3-4 months and things go back to relative normal, they can probably survive.
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Mar 24, 2020 14:16
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Well, the health crisis is going to be 3-4 months. The economic fallout from it is going to be quite a bit longer.
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Mar 24, 2020 14:42
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bull3964 posted:Well, the health crisis is going to be 3-4 months. The economic fallout from it is going to be quite a bit longer. again, kind of dependent on the actions the government takes - but really dealer groups are in trouble because people aren't buying cars not because they're carrying debt
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Mar 24, 2020 14:48
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Inshallah so many dealers go outNof business thst carmakers start to think about direct to consumer sales Niy likely buy we can alwahs hope
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Mar 24, 2020 14:49
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Throatwarbler posted:Elon promised a thousand ventilators last week and they actually showed up today Elon... good? No, that can't be right. Ventilators bad?
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Mar 24, 2020 15:02
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