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Cancelbot posted:..now you put it that way, it makes sense. I don't have any idea of what the game should be like, but I know for sure I suck and the times I've died are all down to my core issue - I am terrible at positioning, my last two deaths were easy to explain: In Minotaur and really any cruiser and hell, any ship where you want to sit in smoke for a while you have to always consider where things may be in the 2 minutes between laying the smoke and when it's over. Always lay the smoke while moving as fast as possible (while staying in it - ie 1/4 throttle) to spread it out, and if there is any question about your safety, maneuver while you are in it such that your bow is pointed away. If anything moves within 2 km of your surface detection and it is a threat to you and it is not absolutely sure to die before the smoke is over (and that means it will be spotted long enough for YOU to kill it because you can never rely on anyone else to do the right thing), then you must abandon your smoke and reposition. It sucks when you waste a smoke but it sucks a lot more when you die. That said though also don't just give up in open water with Minotaur. Never show the flat back of your ship - there is a flat plate back there that like anything will just go through and find your citadel. Your only hope is to show a steeply angled side - try to bait a shot at your belt armor but keep it angled enough. 1 or 2 shells will probably still citadel you through the upper belt or deck but you do have a super heal, however some of them will hit the main belt and it's still thick enough to autobounce any AP. Also protip is when BB shells are in the air and about to hit you, hit your repair before they land - especially if they fired front turrets and then a back turret a second later or something, having the super heal already ticking can save you. If they have been turning turrets for a little bit and watching you, cut throttle to full reverse a little bit before their turrets come fully around - almost anyone will expect you to be going full throttle and you will bait lots of overshots this way.
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Sep 7, 2020 15:35
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kaesarsosei posted:Has anyone tried the asymetric mode yet? What's it like for base XP compared to random battles? It's fairly dull IMO. At least on EU the upper tiers are populated by bots and you have to wait 3 mins in the queue for bots to be added. Rewards are not special, UNLESS you do very well as a low tier ship - as you get a bonus for damaging higher level ships. If you have a good t5 DD, like a Kamikaze, you can farm T8 bots easily and with flags it can be a nice way to gain Free XP, but I din;t feel it's worth waiting 3 mins for each match to start.
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Sep 7, 2020 15:52
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quote:PT 0.9.9, CHANGES TO TEST SHIPS RIP Hizen.
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Sep 7, 2020 16:15
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On NA I feel like asymmetric battles are pretty fun either side. I prefer the lower tier matches though. All this CV chat. Whooooboy. As a CV toucher from time to time (and a lot of the time when I'm seal clubbing DDs in the Loenhardt) I think CVs can be both bad and good for the game. My experience playing against them isn't nearly as bad as some of you purport. Granted it does suck to get dunked on at times.
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Sep 7, 2020 16:19
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Like... you all grasp that just because you've had games with CVs where you, personally, weren't wrecked or impacted by the carrier's presence, that just means it's doing it to someone else, right? All these posts about CVs going on about "well I haven't had that many games ruined by one" are just entirely missing the point lmao. Grats! You got lucky! Maybe you weren't driving the most dunkable ship, or maybe you spawned further away. Good job on skillfully doing the only possible thing to out play the carrier!!! Also everyone could stand to re-read TheFluff's posts a few times because he totally nails the problems. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 17:13
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The CV rework also raised the skill floor while lowering the ceiling. In the RTS days, most CV players weren't really capable of a solid cross drop, but god help you if you ran across one of the pros. A terrible player could do some damage, but usually they'd run out of planes before too long. Now, they don't outright kill a ship, instead they do constant small amounts of damage or lay some dots on a ship. Unless they have AP bombs, then they just say gently caress you and hit a ship for 20k.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:28
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Gwaihir posted:Like... you all grasp that just because you've had games with CVs where you, personally, weren't wrecked or impacted by the carrier's presence, that just means it's doing it to someone else, right? All these posts about CVs going on about "well I haven't had that many games ruined by one" are just entirely missing the point lmao. Grats! You got lucky! Maybe you weren't driving the most dunkable ship, or maybe you spawned further away. Good job on skillfully doing the only possible thing to out play the carrier!!! Totally missing the point dude. These things don't happen in a vacuum. For every moment a CV is murdering babies there are many more moments where they are not. I'm sorry some of you are insanely butt hurt about CVs, but the hatred borders on the absurd.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:48
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Stanley Pain posted:Totally missing the point dude. These things don't happen in a vacuum. For every moment a CV is murdering babies there are many more moments where they are not. I'm sorry some of you are insanely butt hurt about CVs, but the hatred borders on the absurd. The point is not how often they are striking ships - the point is that they are able to do so without any meaningful counterplay. It's also not crazy to not want a game you've sunk literally thousands of hours into to kill itself slowly due to God awful design.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:52
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Gwaihir posted:Like... you all grasp that just because you've had games with CVs where you, personally, weren't wrecked or impacted by the carrier's presence, that just means it's doing it to someone else, right? All these posts about CVs going on about "well I haven't had that many games ruined by one" are just entirely missing the point lmao. Grats! You got lucky! Maybe you weren't driving the most dunkable ship, or maybe you spawned further away. Good job on skillfully doing the only possible thing to out play the carrier!!! Yeah, but see, unless we assume that all CV players have a personal and specific vendetta against just a couple of posters in this thread, you would expect that people would get dunked on and infuriated pretty much evenly over a larger set of games. So when I say "I grinded several ship lines to T9 or T10 after the rework and CVs weren't that huge a problem IMO", either I mysteriously got lucky hundreds of times in a row and the CV player just never happened to focus on my battleship, or cruiser, or destroyer (I didn't; they did, and it's not very much fun when it happens!), or I didn't think it happening was as huge a detriment to my overall gaming experience as some others do. And of course I realize that if the CV isn't focusing on me, it's probably focusing on someone else. I just don't think it's that big a deal most of the time. It's frustrating to get attacked by a CV because you can't do a hell of a lot about it, but many things in the game are frustrating and CVs just don't feel so much more frustrating that I'm going around reporting every CV player or raging about it on forums/Reddit. Limit CVs to 1 per team in all matchmaking brackets and get them out of clan battles (because there I agree their spotting etc has a much more pronounced effect on games than in randoms where you're lucky if more than three players on your team have functioning brains to begin with) and see where we end up.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:58
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As someone who is new to the game, I went straight for the Japanese CVs as my first line and I didn't get the hate for them till I hit the T6, and now that I have used other ship classes I can see that it really isn't fun to be a giant bully every match. I just bully other CVs now when I play them now.
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Sep 7, 2020 18:22
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Stanley Pain posted:I think CVs can be both bad and good for the game. are any of the CV apologists going to say why CVs can be good or is it just random assertion week? Stanley Pain posted:For every moment a CV is murdering babies there are many more moments where they are not. No, every single time a CV interacts with a ship it's griefing that ship. The CV griefing your teammates instead of you doesn't make it not griefing. Der Shovel posted:Yeah, but see, unless we assume that all CV players have a personal and specific vendetta against just a couple of posters in this thread, you would expect that people would get dunked on and infuriated pretty much evenly over a larger set of games. That isn't true at all. There are several reasons why CVs have more effect on some players than others:
Der Shovel posted:many things in the game are frustrating CV is the only thing in the game with no counterplay. Der Shovel posted:Limit CVs to 1 per team in all matchmaking brackets That does nothing to fix CVs, if they were actually balanced a game with 4 CVs a team would be fine like 4 BB or cruisers or DD a team. All you accomplish by limiting the number of CV is to make fewer games with no CV. 1 CV per team also breaks tier 4 matchmaking, since there are 12 ships on a team and CVs are more than 1/12 of the ships in the tier 4 queue. And the only difference between a single CV game and a double CV game is that you are about twice as likely to interact with a CV in the double CV game, so saying that double CV games are not fun seems equivalent to saying that interacting with a CV is not fun.
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Sep 7, 2020 18:42
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We're not going to see eye to eye on this. Some of you really are giant crybabies.
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Sep 7, 2020 18:53
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James Garfield posted:are any of the CV apologists going to say why CVs can be good i guess not 
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Sep 7, 2020 18:53
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TLDR; the CV stuff is boring now. You get raped every match by two Unicum CV's, I don't so let's move on. I'm about 15 battles into the Seattle now. If I could have a Cleveland with the Heal and 6th Mod slot I think it would be a better ship than this. Is there anything else I am missing about it thats better than Cleveland?
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Sep 7, 2020 18:55
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Played a few Asymmetric battles now and they really need to fix the battle scoring formula, every game has been won on points by the high tier team.
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Sep 7, 2020 19:02
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Stanley Pain posted:We're not going to see eye to eye on this. Some of you really are giant crybabies. Why? One side makes arguments, the other says, 'yes, but that's fine, don't worry about it.'
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Sep 7, 2020 19:21
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For example, if people need to stop whining about carriers and adapt, what adaptations would you suggest?
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Sep 7, 2020 19:35
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General Battuta posted:For example, if people need to stop whining about carriers and adapt, what adaptations would you suggest? Play CVs
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Sep 7, 2020 19:39
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Please continue to hate CVs and trash them endlessly over and over in this thread, just understand some people don't agree. At all. The amount of complaining that people do in this thread about CVs is absolutely unreal and completely unrealistic. It's so far down the rabbit hole that even trying to engage with it is a complete waste of time. Just like hey, when you are bitching about CVs, for the 50th time, that week, in a videogame you play all the time, just understand there's other people going "lol that's utterly overblown."
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Sep 7, 2020 19:51
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But why? Nobody’s tried to make any arguments for why CVs are fine and tolerable.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:00
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Trying to get through to someone that despises CVs is genuinely unpleasant, people already have their minds made up and repeat the same stuff over and over until you give up. The goons that play this game are some of the most stubborn and opinionated people I've met which is a very fascinating mix. Anyway you do you man, keep writing angry posts about how CVs are sky cancer, terrible stuff, The Fluff DESTROYS CV players with an essay that no one will respond to, etc. It's such a bizarre thing to be this wound up about a mechanic in a videogame and be convinced that all would be right in the world if it was changed. WOWS played one way, then it changed. You can accept it, or you can complain endlessly for years. A lot of people itt have chosen #2.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:07
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Right, so, it's bad but it's not getting fixed and there's no use worrying about it.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:11
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i am extremely convinced that cvs are good but i REFUSE to say why
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Sep 7, 2020 20:23
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I play T10 pretty much exclusively, which already is locked out from double CV games, thank loving god. Jesus christ though, the posts are getting more and more funny. Me, a gigantic idiot that's played this game for 4+ years now: "It loving sucks that one of the four classes of ship in this game is completely immune to all counterplay and can dunk me back to port whenever it feels like, no matter what I'm playing*" You all, thread posters: "Actually, this is fine, and you're complaining about nothing, because there aren't CVs in every game and when there are sometimes they're really stupid or they focus on someone else  "*except maybe halland e: Oh wait lmao we've moved on from "actually this is fine" to "well wargaming is never going to fix it so stop complaining", ah, good. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 20:29
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General Battuta posted:But why? Nobody’s tried to make any arguments for why CVs are fine and tolerable. If they're not tolerable then stop playing this stupid loving game, or they are tolerable and continue playing this stupid loving game.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:35
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James Garfield posted:i am extremely convinced that cvs are good but i REFUSE to say why I love raining death from above with the Enterprise and Ark Royal and refuse to apologize for this.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:42
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The crying in here about CVs is pretty legendary. The super secret tactic against CVs is to just not care so much about a stupid game. In all seriousness if you're starting to get super angry about a video game it's probably time to take a break. Sometimes you don't actually have control over what happens to you in a game. RNG, dirty CV player, whatever. Something is wrong if every single game you have double super unicum players dunking on you in CVs.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:10
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Ham Sandwiches posted:The Fluff DESTROYS CV players with an essay that no one will respond to, etc. only the worst kind of shitposter would do something like writing a few posts several hundred words long (who the gently caress reads more than 240 characters at a time in 2020, lmao) in which I attempt to engage other posters in a good faith discussion about game design elements of this video game that I like and have played for five loving years like seriously dude, what kind of sick own did you think this would be when you typed it out? "lmao look at this nerd talking about game design in a thread about a video game"? Aramoro posted:If they're not tolerable then stop playing this stupid loving game, or they are tolerable and continue playing this stupid loving game. 
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Sep 7, 2020 21:10
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Tell me how much you hate CVs. I haven't heard enough yet 
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Sep 7, 2020 21:11
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Stanley Pain posted:The crying in here about CVs is pretty legendary. The super secret tactic against CVs is to just not care so much about a stupid game. In all seriousness if you're starting to get super angry about a video game it's probably time to take a break. Discussing the actual game seems a lot more interesting than discussing how people talk about the game. “Just don’t care about it” could be applied to any flaw in any game. Do games therefore not have flaws?
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Sep 7, 2020 21:16
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Stanley Pain posted:Tell me how much you hate CVs. I haven't heard enough yet I've posted what I think is wrong with CV's mechanically and responded to people who actually engaged with my argumentation in good faith. other posters have repeatedly begged you and others to actually engage with the argumentation rather than just covering your ears and going "this is fine, actually, and it will never change anyway so there's no point in debating it". you're the one who chose to just claim that the whole discussion is somehow unworthy of the thread and snipe at people actually discussing the loving video game.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:18
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General Battuta posted:Discussing the actual game seems a lot more interesting than discussing how people talk about the game. “Just don’t care about it” could be applied to any flaw in any game. Do games therefore not have flaws? If only we were "talking" about CVs. As others have mentioned this topic comes up all the time with many tears of anger shed and gnashing of teeth. Not to mention what happens when some people disagree with said discussion. It's pretty obvious that some of us don't have the same view or experience with the game, or CVs, or whatever to the point where the hate boner some people have here for CVs borders if not outright crosses into the hilarious. TheFluff posted:gently caress off Why don't you go cry about CVs on Reddit or the official forums or something? People are allowed to have a difference of opinion about the game or how we view certain aspects of the game. I'm not purporting things are perfect with CVs but they're also not the end of the loving world. Stanley Pain fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 21:22
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Stanley Pain posted:Why don't you go cry about CVs on Reddit or the official forums or something? People are allowed to have a difference of opinion about the game or how we view certain aspects of the game. I'm not purporting things are perfect with CVs but they're also not the end of the loving world. how about you post your loving opinion instead of posting that i'm not allowed to post my opinion here, shithead? if all you have to say is "cv's are okay, u mad lol", ok sure whatever, you've said it, you don't need to engage any further
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Sep 7, 2020 21:29
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Aramoro posted:If they're not tolerable then stop playing this stupid loving game, or they are tolerable and continue playing this stupid loving game. They are not tolerable, but the games that have no CV, or effectively no CV because the CV is stupid or spends the entire game on another flank, are fun enough for the game to be worth playing. (it's close though, I play the game less than I did before the CV rework) Basically the only reason to play warships is that the CV rework wasn't even a success at making CVs popular. The tiers where the rework did make CVs popular are unplayable now. Stanley Pain posted:Sometimes you don't actually have control over what happens to you in a game. RNG, dirty CV player, whatever. Something is wrong if every single game you have double super unicum players dunking on you in CVs. You almost always have control over the engagement in a non CV game, because you can use concealment. If you think RNG means you don't have control it's simply a player issue, it was your own decision to take an engagement where the outcome depends on RNG. Even in the worst ship versus ship engagements (Montana spawns alone on a flank with a DD, DD suicides leaving Montana against a Shimakaze) your gameplay has a significant effect on how the engagement proceeds and it's situationally winnable against a competent enemy. In ship versus CV engagements all that matters is what the CV does. CVs do not need to be super unicum to ruin your game, not even close. The whole nature of how the class is designed is that they have no counterplay. Even if you're matched against a giga shitter midway with 7k average damage, if the midway decides to do that 7k damage to you there is nothing you can do to stop it. An equally bad player in a Yamato might have 40k average damage instead of 7k, but nearly all of that 40k is on similarly bad players and if you encounter them in game you can kill them taking almost no damage in return. I have an order of magnitude more games in ships than CVs and I would expect me-playing-a-CV to kill me-playing-a-ship in almost every situation. Stanley Pain posted:It's pretty obvious that some of us don't have the same view or experience with the game, or CVs part of why your CV experience is different is that your stats are public 
James Garfield fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 21:32
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Stanley Pain posted:If only we were "talking" about CVs. As others have mentioned this topic comes up all the time with many tears of anger shed and gnashing of teeth. Not to mention what happens when some people disagree with said discussion. Okay. I think that carriers really disrupt the game for destroyers and some cruisers by providing random uncounterable spotting. They also promote very cautious gameplay and punish flanking because they can easily spot you and make you the target of the whole enemy team. I also think that surface ships don’t have enough counter play options to make carrier strikes feel like an attack to be fought off rather than a random damaging weather event. What do you think?
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Sep 7, 2020 21:37
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James Garfield posted:part of why your CV experience is different is that your stats are public I'm an average player and I enjoy all aspects of the game.  TheFluff posted:how about you post your loving opinion instead of posting that i'm not allowed to post my opinion here, shithead? Change how they spot ships and you've pretty much "fixed" CVs. I can comment on whatever I feel like just like you can. It's just that seeing the same poo poo posed over and over again about CVs gets old and comes across as someone mad at video games or whatever. You're basically doing the same thing you called me out on. "CVs are fine, u mad lol". James Garfield posted:
I hated CVs before and enjoy them after the rework. If a CV is focusing you down, you need to rely on your team to help you out. This game isn't played in a 1v1 vacuum. General Battuta posted:Okay. I think that carriers really disrupt the game for destroyers and some cruisers by providing random uncounterable spotting. They also promote very cautious gameplay and punish flanking because they can easily spot you and make you the target of the whole enemy team. I also think that surface ships don’t have enough counter play options to make carrier strikes feel like an attack to be fought off rather than a random damaging weather event. Change whatever you're doing. It's high risk/reward gameplay for DDs at times. Sometimes running away is what you have to do.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:56
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Stanley Pain posted:
If only this did anything at all, unfortunately AA does actually nothing because a CV can still strike a worcester sitting in the middle of 4 other worcesters if it feels like it. I'm not even exaggerating, there's clips of exactly that happening from good cv players. that is literally the point everyone has been trying to get across. There is no "help each other out." There is no counterplay. There's only sighing with relief on lucking in to a no cv match.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:00
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Gwaihir posted:If only this did anything at all, unfortunately AA does actually nothing because a CV can still strike a worcester sitting in the middle of 4 other worcesters if it feels like it. I'm not even exaggerating, there's clips of exactly that happening from good cv players. So the CV gets one strike off, loses the whole squadron. Do you think that's a sustainable course of action for the CV?
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Sep 7, 2020 22:20
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Stanley Pain posted:Change whatever you're doing. It's high risk/reward gameplay for DDs at times. Sometimes running away is what you have to do. So play closer to teammates for mutual AA support? But how do I avoid being spotted and therefore targeted by enemy surface ships?
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Sep 7, 2020 22:22
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Just to add to this scintillating discussion I just played some Asymmetric games in the Lexington. Jesus loving Christ that should not be allowed.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:36
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