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No emails yet, but a lot of people who were on use or lose leave came in because they didn't want the holiday to screw up their hours. As for holiday early dismissal, our new commissioner has kept up the 2 hours off the day before major holidays intact.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:35
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Josh Lyman posted:I was “Not referred” for a position on the basis of “Not qualified - Education/Experience” but I definitely have the appropriate background. It’s a non-GS 12-14 position and I’m currently 7 months into GS11 (first government job) but that’s only bc my current agency lowballed me and accepting the offer was the least worst option at the time. By the end of this process I had uploaded new documents to USAJobs, with my Ph.D. transcripts and federal jobs pre-highlighted, in the greatest passive-aggressive success story of my life (it did never happen again!). But...if it was internal and they say you do not qualify, you should still contest it, but you should not be surprised if your lack of a full year on the job is disqualifying you unfortunately. That is how they limit the promotion potential of people who come in at a GS lower than they qualify for 
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Dec 3, 2018 18:43
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Thats bullshit.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:43
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Wait, they tell you why your application failed? I just checked all my applications on USAJobs, no comments whatsoever. 
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Dec 3, 2018 20:24
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Dr. Quarex posted:It depends. Was it a public posting? If so, definitely; I got "not referred" to about 10 jobs earlier this year that I qualified for through both experience AND education, and was able to get referred for 9 of them by e-mailing the HR contact address and saying "hey, this is clearly wrong, how can we fix this?" (the tenth inappropriate non-referral was an Army civilian job and never responded to my e-mail). The general process is "please highlight on your application materials what you believe was overlooked." Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 22:19
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My wife got the same treatment with an archaeologist position. Despite working as an archaeologist for 10 years she want qualified because she didn't have 3 credits of GIS. Despite using GIS during the 10 years of being an archaeologist
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Dec 3, 2018 22:31
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Spacewolf posted:Wait, they tell you why your application failed?
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Dec 3, 2018 22:57
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Goodpancakes posted:My wife got the same treatment with an archaeologist position. Despite working as an archaeologist for 10 years she want qualified because she didn't have 3 credits of GIS. Despite using GIS during the 10 years of being an archaeologist
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Dec 3, 2018 23:01
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Josh Lyman posted:So... does that mean that we’ll never be able to get jobs with the government that we’re excellent fits for? I mean I thought that was the whole point?
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Dec 3, 2018 23:14
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You might be able to argue your point successfully with a sane HR higher-up but getting to one will be a challenge. Better to take a single GIS class in a summer session clearly I feel like having a doctorate should blow the 21 credit hour requirement up too... But I also never got promoted in my last job because having a doctorate did not sufficiently demonstrate to the résumé readers that I had the ability to analyze data until I had been on the job a few years 
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Dec 3, 2018 23:19
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Josh Lyman posted:So... does that mean that we’ll never be able to get jobs with the government that we’re excellent fits for? TL;DR: The vacancy announcements are generally made of lies. Write creatively and cover your resume in as many keywords as possible I still recall a story my first government supervisor told me when I was but a wee contractor and desperately trying to get a government job. He told me that back when he came on, and there were still paper applications, that the group secretary was tasked with going through the pile. The secretary was directed to only pick out people that had bachelor's degrees. By the end of the day she was done and threw the rest in the trash. In the trash were candidates with PhDs and master's degrees because they only listed their terminal degree and not the bachelor's. Being able to do a job well, enjoy it, or generally care about it, is not a mandatory factor for getting the federal version of that job. The government is all about checking arbitrary boxes designed by an HR person at HQ that has never spoken to a single person that has done that job but, because they have enough boxes checked, the government believes them well suited to determine how your job works (In my agency someone from another series was looking to convert to mine and asked how close the announcement is to the actual job. I told them we do one of the five mandatory factors for the announcement routinely and the rest never unless we're at HQ, which bumps it up to almost never.) I did the same job I do now, for the same agency, but as a contractor for about three years. For two of those years I was literally told by HR that I wasn't qualified to do the job I had already been doing. After more than two years of doing my job, equivalent to a GS 13, I ended up finally getting offered a 9 and gladly taking it. Do something as close as you can to the job you want and write as creatively as possible, without outright lying, to cover any gaps in the resume between your job and what you want. Use the USAJOBS format resume if they let you and cover that god forsaken thing in as many keywords, buzzwords, and training certificates as possible to get it past the automated filter and into the hands of an actual living person. Then pray that they realize the government can't live another day without underutilizing you.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:30
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Slig posted:TL;DR: The vacancy announcements are generally made of lies. Write creatively and cover your resume in as many keywords as possible That sticking to the letter of stuff makes working simpler, but it's obviously boneheaded in the end results without there being some awareness. It's how we look at contract submissions too.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:35
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Slig posted:TL;DR: The vacancy announcements are generally made of lies. Write creatively and cover your resume in as many keywords as possible On the resume front, if my self-formatted resume contains enough keywords to make it through the automated filter, wouldn’t it be better to have a nice looking resume for the hiring manager compared to using the Build Resume tool on USAJobs? Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 03:50
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Serious question: How the hell, if the vacancy announcements are full of lies, do anybody qualify for, well...most GS-5 positions? I remember staring blearily at a DOJ application for a mailroom clerk that asked me if I had used specific pieces of software. Software only used by the DOJ. Or, even better, what my High School GPA was. (I'm in my 30s, I have no recollection what my high school GPA was.)
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Dec 4, 2018 03:53
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Spacewolf posted:Serious question: How the hell, if the vacancy announcements are full of lies, do anybody qualify for, well...most GS-5 positions? Knowing a guy, meeting a special hiring schedule, or being a veteran. Knowing a guy is still a significant component of way more federal jobs than anyone wants to admit. I've seen positions where hiring managers repeatedly cancelled a vacancy announcement until their preferred candidate made it to the interview cluster because better qualified people dropped out. I had to answer the high school GPA question for a position that required a masters. There's lots of cookie cutter questions. You'll even see the same ones used in vastly different job openings, with the same spelling mistakes baked in for the last 10+ years that no one fixed. My personal favorites are the one that ask about your writing abilities or attention to detail that both have spelling mistakes to this day. I hope one day the process evolves beyond having to say you got all As in high school and having to list expert on every question even for entry level positions. Re: The finance vs econ credits, if the hiring official is not reasonable enough to see that your credentials basically match the announcement then they are missing out, not you. I know I'm really down on the hiring process but really the biggest thing that will get you into the gov is persistence. Apply until you can't remember what you applied for and then apply some more. It might not help you this month, or this year, but eventually you can become a government employee. Who knows, you might even get the chance to do something you like and are good at or get within an office change of that happening. Wait three years in a job you can tolerate and PCS to where you really want to be. The government desperately needs good people and if good people don't keep throwing themselves into the process, we'll only get worse.
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Dec 4, 2018 04:28
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Spacewolf posted:Serious question: How the hell, if the vacancy announcements are full of lies, do anybody qualify for, well...most GS-5 positions? I can only speak to what I’ve seen from the HR side, but it was not my experience that announcements were “full of lies.” The requirements were laid out, and either the applicant met them (and was referred) or didn’t (and was not referred). There are plenty of stories along the lines of “idiot new employee throws out qualified applicants’ resumes” circulating out there, but in my experience qualifications were reviewed by the specialist who posted the announcement and was familiar with the intent of the posting or a specialist in training under supervision of the posting specialist. That clerk position you mention was probably written with an internal hire in mind despite the claimed areas of consideration. I’ve seen a few similar ones in my agency where I qualify in all respects but experience with a specific system to which no one but a current employee of that organization could reasonably have access . Luckily there are a lot of positions with much less specific required experience, especially for anyone looking at GS-05 positions. I’m not sure you’d be a good culture fit though. What bureaucrat didn’t instinctively file and retain their high school transcripts? Edit: Slig posted:I've seen positions where hiring managers repeatedly cancelled a vacancy announcement until their preferred candidate made it to the interview cluster because better qualified people dropped out. This is extremely reportable, but the response depends hugely upon how much of a garbage fire the agency is. Slig posted:You'll even see the same ones used in vastly different job openings, with the same spelling mistakes baked in for the last 10+ years that no one fixed. My personal favorites are the one that ask about your writing abilities or attention to detail that both have spelling mistakes to this day. These are actually trick questions. Your responses are irrelevant, but they are checked for spelling, punctuation, diction, and clarity. If your score is low enough they’ll prepend “Supervisory” to your title and bump you up a couple of grades! 
Loucks fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 04:34
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Josh Lyman posted:On the resume front, if my self-formatted resume contains enough keywords to make it through the automated filter, wouldn’t it be better to have a nice looking resume for the hiring manager compared to using the Build Resume tool on USAJobs? If you go with self format make sure to pdf it. You can't guarantee the government computer viewing it will have compatible formating to what you used and it might look all jacked up, especially anything with bulleting or custom spacing. I'll be honest, I used self format for years and got a referral here and there but had much more success once I switched to the USAJOBS format. Some postings will require that format so keep one in your profile with the same info that's on your self format or go bananas with info on it. Government typically doesn't care if your resume is 1 page or 10. Whereas private industry will throw away a two pager. The resume often does not see a person until they are just checking a box to make sure you didn't lie, if they even bother. If the questionnaire and resume don't meet the autoscoring threshold they won't see a person. Your goal is to get to a human. They can occasionally be reasoned with. Be charming enough in the interview and you're golden. Unless you're putting in for CIA or something like that they will probably ask the same five questions every federal interview does.
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Dec 4, 2018 04:46
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Slig posted:
this still blows my mind. it's literally the most worthless way to screen for employment. how is any non-federal employee supposed to know this when applying?
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Dec 4, 2018 04:50
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Loucks posted:I can only speak to what I’ve seen from the HR side, but it was not my experience that announcements were “full of lies.” The requirements were laid out, and either the applicant met them (and was referred) or didn’t (and was not referred). There are plenty of stories along the lines of “idiot new employee throws out qualified applicants’ resumes” circulating out there, but in my experience qualifications were reviewed by the specialist who posted the announcement and was familiar with the intent of the posting or a specialist in training under supervision of the posting specialist I wish my agency was not the total garbage fire it has increasingly become. I wish our HR was anywhere near the professional type outfit you describe but it's gotten so bad that managers will laugh about cancelling announcements to promote their favorites or punish their enemies. People that speak up eat a transfer or end up with endless busy work that ends up hurting them on metrics for their performance evals. We had the mandatory NO FEAR training pop up today and most of my co-workers just spent the day talking about what parts applied to them and how there's no accountability. I want it to be better but we need a combination of new employees to at least match attrition and accountable managers.
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Dec 4, 2018 05:06
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Well drat, I’ve done the persistence and patience, but y’all ain’t selling me on the final sign up here exactly. The applying and forgetting thing has gotten me further than ever before though. I’d have to count it as dumb luck mostly, don’t think I did anything special.
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Dec 4, 2018 05:15
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Slig posted:Terrifying Honestly sorry to hear that. I won’t say HR at my agency is completely perfect, but in my experience the hiring specialists genuinely care about doing things correctly. On the couple of occasions I’ve heard of hiring managers trying to play the system it’s treated as a big deal and they’re told to pound sand. Hope you get out and find a post in another agency. Based on what I’ve seen that seems to be the quickest route to a high grade anyway. REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Well drat, I’ve done the persistence and patience, but y’all ain’t selling me on the final sign up here exactly. Eh, it’s not for everyone. You can make more in the private sector, but with less security and probably no pension. The revised versions of FERS are a lot worse than the OG version, which is worse than CSRS. If you think you’re willing to put the time in better work on getting an appointment sooner rather than later because I expect the retirement plans will only get worse for new employees. Still, if you can make it to a decent grade in a relatively sane cost of living area (not tough once you’re on board) you can stuff enough into TSP and a private IRA to have a decent retirement down the road barring single-earner quiverfull antics. I will say that I don’t mind going in to work at all. I solve problems all day long, and the biggest source of stress is boring meetings. That and running out of coffee. I leave work relaxed after eight hours, and that’s worth something in my opinion. Loucks fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 06:19
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Yeah I made a mistake in the job I took first to get in, but that job also got me where I am now, which is probably the best job I have had, and certainly the one where they seem to appreciate me the most (unless you count the time I briefly had a chili pepper on RateMyProfessor, truly my career highlight).
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Dec 4, 2018 06:35
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Slig posted:
or for keeping it based on some of my colleagues
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Dec 4, 2018 18:16
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It's pretty wild to me how much credit you get in the Federal government just for coming in and giving a rat's rear end about your job and your work products.
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Dec 4, 2018 19:04
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Slig posted:The government desperately needs good people and if good people don't keep throwing themselves into the process, we'll only get worse. We're beyond the tipping point, if you're good at all go work anywhere else and let the United States sink to the bottom of the gutter with the rest of the garbage.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:40
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Merry George h w bush senior memorial day all 
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Dec 5, 2018 18:09
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I cleaned out the junk drawer, dusted the baseboards and reorganized some storage totes. Thanks for the free day, Mr. President.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:29
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TheMadMilkman posted:I cleaned out the junk drawer, dusted the baseboards and reorganized some storage totes. He died so that we may nap.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:49
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Well this is shocking, my new Agency did end of year bonus awards and I got 2% of salary. 
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Dec 6, 2018 23:25
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What agency do you work for? (sounds like I need to move there!)
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Dec 7, 2018 00:44
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Rakeris posted:What agency do you work for? (sounds like I need to move there!) CBP.
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Dec 7, 2018 02:47
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I always choose time over money for annual awards. But then, I seemed to be the only person at my office who, rather than working maximum overtime and signing up to work holidays for even more extra pay, tried to find out if I could join the pilot part-time employee program (sadly, I was not selected).
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Dec 7, 2018 02:55
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Dr. Quarex posted:I always choose time over money for annual awards. But then, I seemed to be the only person at my office who, rather than working maximum overtime and signing up to work holidays for even more extra pay, tried to find out if I could join the pilot part-time employee program (sadly, I was not selected). Hours is the smart choice, too, because it doesn't add to your total taxable income. Once you're in that eight-hour leave category, though, it can get really hard to use all those hours. (I look forward to having that problem one day.)
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Dec 7, 2018 04:03
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Lady Bureaucrazy posted:Hours is the smart choice, too, because it doesn't add to your total taxable income. Once you're in that eight-hour leave category, though, it can get really hard to use all those hours. (I look forward to having that problem one day.) I end up taking most of December off every year.
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Dec 7, 2018 04:06
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I get 8hrs now so I have to try to use it all. Good problem to have. 
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Dec 7, 2018 04:08
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No, let's start bragging on our sick leave balances.
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Dec 7, 2018 05:02
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Terror Ninja posted:CBP. Nevermind that!
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Dec 7, 2018 05:18
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I’m a single dad of teenage girls, one of whom is special needs. I have ZERO leave 
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Dec 7, 2018 05:26
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For my current 11/12 position with full performance at 13 (I’m an 11-1), I know I should be able to ladder to 12 once I hit 52 weeks in April (just paperwork for the grade increase right?) and I have to “compete” for a 13, but what does that really mean? After 52 weeks at 12, I can ask my supervisor to make a 13 posting? Any potential hiccups on that front? I’m in the nice position of being the only person in my office who can do my work, and it’s very low stress, but I just got an offer from a consulting firm that’s comparable to 12-10 or 13-4. How long would it take me to get to that point if I stayed in government?
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Dec 7, 2018 14:17
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It will take you forever to get to that point if you stay with the feds. For the 12 to 13, you'll have to have a year at 12, so you'd be a 12-2, then wait for a posting to open and apply for it. If you can get your boss to tailor you a job solicitation great, but even then it won't be an automatic promotion.
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Dec 7, 2018 16:14
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