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Proposed Budget: ~10k New or Used: Used Body Style: 2door or small 4door How will you be using the car?: Primarily a commuter car that can pick up errands on the side with the occasional longer trip. What aspects are most important to you?: Cost of ownership once it is in my possession is key. I have a 96 Tacoma now and the reliability, cheap parts, cheap labor, and good gas mileage (for a truck) are all huge selling points for me. About a year ago or so I asked in here more hypothetically what I should get and literally everyone said get a MX-5 as it was basically the fun to drive, sport version of my Tacoma. I actually have the money to spend now, 100% down, and have started to look around for available MX-5 in the metro area. At $10k what year/model should I look at? Are there any other cars that have become contenders to the throne since I last looked?
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Oct 15, 2013 18:06
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Chasiubao posted:I do, and it's pretty great for my first ever car. I got the mid level trim, can't remember what it's called, with the tech package. Non-negotiable price via an employer discount package, which was fine to me since I can't negotiate for poo poo. What questions did you have? I have an for S-plan for some weird reason, but its still higher than a round of negotiating. either way there isn't much variance in price, it looks like maybe I can save 500 below s-plan at most. 1) I read cabin noise was an issue, but didn't really notice it. Is that something? 2) Does the mid-level have those leatherette seats? 3) is the gas mileage as high as they claim? thanks much
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Oct 15, 2013 18:40
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This seems like the thread for this question. If it's not, well, you know, I'll suffer for it one day. So in April 2011 I bought an '11 Civic new. Up to 38,800 miles on it now. Love it. No problems yet, been keeping up with maintenance, all that good stuff. This morning my Honda dealer calls me up and says they're doing an "upgrade" deal right now for Civic owners where you can trade in your old one for a brand new '13, no money down 0.9% APR blah blah blah. No matter what I learn about the specifics of the deal, I'm leaning strongly toward keeping my 11. It's the first car I bought with my own money and I was planning to drive this thing till it died. I loved the feel of the car from the first test drive and if it ain't broke... My question is how does the 2013 Civic stack against the 2011? Am I possibly getting a good deal by trading up? Or did the Civic jump the shark? The only new frills I'd gain are Bluetooth (don't care) and rear camera (nice, but could do without). If there are any other secret awesome improvements from the 2011 I can't seem to find them. Seems like this is just Honda trying to cut a sorta-good deal to get rid of their 2013s.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:16
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That's a common dealer scam to get you in the door. Civic owners aren't being given any special treatment and you should keep your car.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:40
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CatchrNdRy posted:I have an for S-plan for some weird reason, but its still higher than a round of negotiating. either way there isn't much variance in price, it looks like maybe I can save 500 below s-plan at most. 1) A bit noisier than say, my dad's Camry, but it doesn't bother me. I think it's very subjective. 2) Yes. 3) Um, forget what they claim. But it takes me a quarter of a tank to go to my parents' place which is about 140 miles on freeways / highways.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:11
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How comfortable is the RX-8 on highway commutes? Is it too twitchy or stiff to be relaxing? Thinking R3 (2009-2011)
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Oct 15, 2013 21:18
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Dominoes posted:How comfortable is the RX-8 on highway commutes? Is it too twitchy or stiff to be relaxing? Thinking R3 (2009-2011) My 2005 RX-8 is plenty fine driving on the highway. The seats are pretty comfortable and the ride is just loose enough to not feel like your breaking your back on juts in the road. I also have a friend that has a gravel driveway and I've never felt uncomfortable driving on it and the newer generation is supposed to have a better suspension on top of all that.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:24
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The wheelbase is long enough that it isn't a chore to drive.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:49
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Discombobulator posted:This seems like the thread for this question. If it's not, well, you know, I'll suffer for it one day. Don't do it for the "deal" they are giving you. Only do it if you truly want the thirteen. We do the same thing at the honda dealership I sell at. Send out postcards to previous buyers saying that we are hard up for used Hondas to certify, and we will give you super duper top dollar to trade it in. Then the people show up, we do the appraisal, and then still try to UA (under allow) on the trade. It may be a reasonable offer out the gate, but it will not be "holy poo poo! What a deal!" With that being said, the 2013 civic has the same engine and transmission that yours has, but it does get a little better gas milage due to the switch from hydrolic power steering to electric assist power steering, refined shift points and Econ mode (changes throttle response, shift points and climate control) Also comes standard with Bluetooth and USB and back up camera on all trims now, and is quite a bit quieter. They also made the elbow room a little better too.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:20
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The '13 isn't a full generational difference from the '11. There are some minor updates, as outlined by the guy above me, but unless there's a killer feature for you, don't bother.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:28
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Is $400 a lot for Vehicle Title/License/Plates fees? I think the actual real cost is like $130, is that markup regular for dealerships? I was nearing a deal via email with this dealer, but final estimate had $500 accessories (tint, protectant, etching) which are non-negotiable because they have already "done the work" on the car. Then $400 doc and $400 license and title. This seems very excessive to me and jacked the price of the car up about $700 more than I anticipated.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:06
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Classic scummy salesman move - a bait and switch of sorts. Inflated doc fees are a scam. Already "did the work" is a scam. Don't let them get one over on you. Everything is negotiable (except sales tax...). Try to negotiate on an "out the door" price that includes EVERYTHING. The dealer can rearrange the numbers into whatever subcategories they want, but the number you're negotiating over is the one on the bottom line that includes the car, all accessories, all delivery costs, and all doc/title/plate fees. About the only thing that will get "tacked on" is sales tax. Everything else except that is part of the negotiated sale price. Guinness fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 00:20
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CatchrNdRy posted:Is $400 a lot for Vehicle Title/License/Plates fees? I think the actual real cost is like $130, is that markup regular for dealerships? Anything that they added the fact is still negotiable...that is like saying "the price of the car is not negotiable because you are paying for the work that was already done on the car". We have etch on our cars, but we try to sell them the plan when they are in finance. We also say "price plus accessories" ( all weather mats...actually a useful accessory, sand stripe) but some people really don't want to pay for it. In the end, we usually will just charge cost on the accessories or in rare cases, discount the price to make he deal happen. They will not actually mark the accessories down per say, but just look at the overall price of the car and try to get them to knock another $100-$200 because you really dot want the accessories. Or tell them "fine, I want to put a deposit on a car incoming from factory at this price minus the $500, because I want the car before you add anything". Usually they will work with you, because they want to sell that car TODAY, not some car in the future. Depending on state, license and title can be high, and it is legitimate. It is whatever the DMV charges. You either take care of it at the dealer or go to the DMV to wait in line and pay the same amount. License and title here in Oregon for a new car is just under $300, but luckily that covers registration for 4 years. Doc fee here is $75. I don't know why it is higher where you are at.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The '13 isn't a full generational difference from the '11. There are some minor updates, as outlined by the guy above me, but unless there's a killer feature for you, don't bother. Wikipedia says the 8th gen was from model year 2006–2011 and the 9th gen is 2012-present. Was it different for the US?
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Oct 16, 2013 00:21
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Guinness posted:Try to negotiate on an "out the door" price that includes EVERYTHING. The dealer can rearrange the numbers into whatever subcategories they want, but the number you're negotiating over is the one on the bottom line that includes the car, all accessories, all delivery costs, and all doc/title/plate fees. This is what I do. If you live in a large metro area, it also helps sort out the dealers who are offering otherwise-identical deals where the city sales tax is enough to make one higher than the other. I don't care if the dealer charges $18k for doc fees and $1 for the car, if it's cheaper than the next guy doing $0 doc fees and $19k for the car I'll take it. Sleazy dealerships will push every number around that they can to obfuscate the out-the-door price, but if you already know the down payment / interest rate / term you are looking for, you should be able to back that out to an OTD price that you're targeting.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:26
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Guinness posted:Classic scummy salesman move - a bait and switch of sorts. Inflated doc fees are a scam. Already "did the work" is a scam. Don't let them get one over on you. Everything is negotiable (except sales tax...). Good idea I will just talk in Out the door price now. When negotiating out the door, does that usually include tax? I initially asked for an itemized breakdown because I wanted to see their categories of fees. Juando290 posted:Anything that they added the fact is still negotiable...that is like saying "the price of the car is not negotiable because you are paying for the work that was already done on the car". We have etch on our cars, but we try to sell them the plan when they are in finance. We also say "price plus accessories" ( all weather mats...actually a useful accessory, sand stripe) but some people really don't want to pay for it. In the end, we usually will just charge cost on the accessories or in rare cases, discount the price to make he deal happen. They will not actually mark the accessories down per say, but just look at the overall price of the car and try to get them to knock another $100-$200 because you really dot want the accessories. Or tell them "fine, I want to put a deposit on a car incoming from factory at this price minus the $500, because I want the car before you add anything". Usually they will work with you, because they want to sell that car TODAY, not some car in the future. So in theory, I could tell the salesman to nix the $400 because I will do it myself? I'm buying a new car, but I found this carmax calculator. License and registration should be $120 for my state. This salesman is charging $400 for title and license. In addition to another $400 doc fees. bad? http://www.carmax.com/enus/tax-title-tags-fees-calculator/default.html edit: that calculator does not take into account license fees, so 400 is about right. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 00:30
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Guinness posted:Classic scummy salesman move - a bait and switch of sorts. Doc fees are a scam. Already "did the work" is a scam. Don't let them get one over on you. Everything is negotiable (except sales tax...). Hey...I'm not scummy  But seriously. Pretty much all this is correct. And quite a few sales guys are scummy. I work with two of them, and yesterday I spent an hour and a half helping a woman out who bought an accord that she thought was a V6 that was actually a 4 cylinder. This guy did the same thing to one of my customers, but luckily I caught it early on. Those guys exist, and I loving hate them, because while I am trying to change people's individual conceptions of car salesmen, these asshats pull skeezy poo poo and affect my ability to make a living because the people they screw will tell their friends to stay away from our dealer. Sometimes I want to stab them in the eye. That being said, I actually try to help my customers save money where I can. I won't deny, if a good deal falls in my lap, and they don't even try to negotiate and are basically like "I want that car, who do I make the check out to?" I will not look that gift horse in the mouth, but he way I have always seen it, that if the customer is treated right and walks away happy, they will send their friends to me or come back and shop with me on the next go around. This has served me well, seeing as how in less than three years, I have positioned myself where I have he highest customer satisfaction rating in my dealership, and I already have accumulated many sales based off referrals and already repeat business (just yesterday I sold an Odyssey to a family that I sold a civic to 2 years ago. They moved but made an hour and a half drive to shop specifically with me). So in the long run, I make less per deal, but more overall. Ok, I got off track. I am just sorry all you guys have to work with stereotypes. They suck, and they need to be chokes out of the industry. Anywho, the one thing you said was a scam was doc fees. That is one of they few things that is not completely a scam. They legitimately have costs outside the vehicle in terms of administration, paperwork. Basically you are paying the wages of the old ladies that are in a windowless office somewhere handling all the backend paperwork from mailing out titles and making sure everything is done properly and legally etc. 400 does seem excessive though. I think Oregon has a cap on doc fees of $100, but like I said, ours is $75 (basically we charge our actual cost per vehicle transaction.)
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Oct 16, 2013 00:36
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CatchrNdRy posted:Good idea I will just talk in Out the door price now. When negotiating out the door, does that usually include tax? Yes bad, they are trying to scam you. Find another dealer, who knows what other poo poo they are trying to pull. That is horrid. So, if a dealer is being an rear end and will not discount pre installed accessories, always go to another dealer if possible and get a quote in person on the same trim vehicle. The reason I say in person is that we are trained as it were, to get people into the dealer. So over the phone, they will give you a price that does not include accessories. In reality, you want to go in with the first dealers quote, have them quote you the same vehicle with the same accessories (they most likely will already be pre installed there...I have noticed that all the dealers in certain regions adhere to the same pre installed packages) and if you feel like they really tried to earn your business, go with dealer two, if they only match or beat slightly, take that quite to dealer one and get them to match or beat quote two slightly. The reason why I say to take dealer one, even if they ony match, is because in reality, the salesperson, as long as hey were not too scummy, put more work in the deal and is a slave to whatever the managers decide in the end. (I happen to have a kid relationship with my managers, so I am able to call some of the shots on my deals, but this is usually not the case) Juando290 fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 00:37
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So this creepy guy who lives two apartments down from me (really overly-friendly, I'd basically describe him as Fat Old Ned Flanders) got evicted because he was secretly extorting people and selling weed out of his apartment and having sex with the wife of the guy in the apartment across from me, supposedly. He came back to get some steak knives he left behind, saw me, waved me down and gave me his card - he works at a Nissan dealership, largest one in town, and I've been looking into Nissans lately. "That card will get you $100 off right away! Come see me, I can get you new, used, whatever you need, and I'll do all the leg work and research for you!" Then he drove off in his lovely not-Nissan SUV and I haven't seen him since. What do you think goons, should I go get a new Nissan from this fine salesman? I mean hey, $100 off! 
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Oct 16, 2013 01:00
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Out the door is everything, including tax.
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Oct 16, 2013 02:13
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:So this creepy guy who lives two apartments down from me (really overly-friendly, I'd basically describe him as Fat Old Ned Flanders) got evicted because he was secretly extorting people and selling weed out of his apartment and having sex with the wife of the guy in the apartment across from me, supposedly. He came back to get some steak knives he left behind, saw me, waved me down and gave me his card - he works at a Nissan dealership, largest one in town, and I've been looking into Nissans lately. "That card will get you $100 off right away! Come see me, I can get you new, used, whatever you need, and I'll do all the leg work and research for you!" Then he drove off in his lovely not-Nissan SUV and I haven't seen him since. Sounds legit.
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Oct 16, 2013 02:16
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CatchrNdRy posted:2) Does the mid-level have those leatherette seats?
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Oct 16, 2013 02:17
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If you were looking at a Nissan already, I don't see any reason not to give him a call. He doesn't really sound any more sketchy than most car dealerships. 
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Oct 16, 2013 02:19
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Throatwarbler posted:If you were looking at a Nissan already, I don't see any reason not to give him a call. He doesn't really sound any more sketchy than most car dealerships. Yeah, I actually was considering the Nissan Versa sedan in my car hunt since it's cheap as hell and gets amazing mileage (though everyone I've talked to has been saying it's uncomfortable or not fun to drive, but I drive a lovely, slow SUV with rock-hard cheap seats so I don't really think this will be worse...) so I am considering at least test driving one. This guy creeps me the gently caress out though, so I might go to the dealership a town over instead...
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Oct 16, 2013 05:31
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Juando290 posted:Yes bad, they are trying to scam you. Find another dealer, who knows what other poo poo they are trying to pull. That is horrid. It's really a matter of what the local market will bear. I haven't found a Honda dealer in AZ that doesn't charge at least $399 for "doc fees" - and this is on top of the actual registration fee - because the laws here that limit such fees are minimal or nonexistent.
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Oct 16, 2013 05:44
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Yeah, I actually was considering the Nissan Versa sedan in my car hunt since it's cheap as hell and gets amazing mileage (though everyone I've talked to has been saying it's uncomfortable or not fun to drive, but I drive a lovely, slow SUV with rock-hard cheap seats so I don't really think this will be worse...) so I am considering at least test driving one. This guy creeps me the gently caress out though, so I might go to the dealership a town over instead... It is all of those things and it wouldn't be too bad of a commuter car, but the one thing that would stop me is that it gets really terrible crash test ratings and is one of the most (if not the most) unsafe cars sold in North America. I think I would take a 2 year old Ford Focus or Hyundai Elantra over a new Versa.
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Oct 16, 2013 06:08
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gwrtheyrn posted:The iGT and s Touring come with leatherette, but last time I checked the only models that are out there are iTouring and sGT which should be cloth and leather respectively. So when they say cloth and leatherette what is the percentage on the seat? (I only test drove the low end sport automatic 6) Throatwarbler posted:If you were looking at a Nissan already, I don't see any reason not to give him a call. He doesn't really sound any more sketchy than most car dealerships. IOwnCalculus posted:It's really a matter of what the local market will bear. I haven't found a Honda dealer in AZ that doesn't charge at least $399 for "doc fees" - and this is on top of the actual registration fee - because the laws here that limit such fees are minimal or nonexistent. A friend was trying to buy a used Nissan Rogue in the Phoenix area, and a series of dealers pulled bait and switches of various forms. "The one you want is undergoing some minor repairs few weeks, but we have this more expensive one" was common. Hey IOwnCalculus a few weeks ago ITT you said in the Arizona market my beat up but fully functional 2003 Camry could go for 5K? (170k miles, rebuilt engine, many small exterior scuffs, leaky valve stem seals). Edmunds say trade in of $2000. that's a pretty serious difference, is the local market that desperate for low end cars?
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Oct 16, 2013 06:25
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My Touring is all leatherette, there's no cloth. Not sure what gwrtheyrn meant about there being no Tourings, unless he means just they don't have them in stock or whatever 
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Oct 16, 2013 06:31
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Chasiubao posted:My Touring is all leatherette, there's no cloth. Not sure what gwrtheyrn meant about there being no Tourings, unless he means just they don't have them in stock or whatever thanks for all your help. do you mind telling what you paid?
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Oct 16, 2013 06:37
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Proposed Budget: ~6-10k New or Used: New or Used Body Style: 4door How will you be using the car?: Commuter with the occasional 100 mile trip once or twice a month. I really like the Kia Optima 2011/2013's and went and looked into leasing one. It seems alright, but I really won't be using it that much daily (less than 15 miles a day). Stepping into a lease and paying $10k over 3 years and not even get to keep the vehicle after that isn't very appetizing. I like the volvo's I see in my price range but they are all 2004's which seems to be as bad of an idea as my current car (a 1998 Chevy Lumina with 240,000 miles (205,000m on the engine).
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Oct 16, 2013 15:25
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You're getting a: Mazda 3 Ford Focus Honda Civic Toyota Corolla Subaru Impreza Or a: Mazda 6 Ford Fusion Honda Accord Toyota Camry Subaru Legacy
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Oct 16, 2013 18:03
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CatchrNdRy posted:thanks for all your help. do you mind telling what you paid? I do, but I will say I was on a similar fixed price plan like the one you've mentioned
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Oct 16, 2013 18:44
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CatchrNdRy posted:Hey IOwnCalculus a few weeks ago ITT you said in the Arizona market my beat up but fully functional 2003 Camry could go for 5K? (170k miles, rebuilt engine, many small exterior scuffs, leaky valve stem seals). Edmunds say trade in of $2000. that's a pretty serious difference, is the local market that desperate for low end cars? Trade-in is a super lowball. The used market here will snap up a Camry in a second (I sold one that needed a clutch very soon, and needed struts about 100k miles before that) for maybe $100 less than my asking price in a few days. If you want to get $5k or somewhere in that ballpark, put it on Craigslist:  You'll have to deal with some loving morons at some point but you can definitely do a lot better than $2k. poo poo, you could probably list it for $3k and have people banging down your inbox to buy it NOWNOWNOW.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:12
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Proposed Budget: ~6-10k New or Used: Used Body Style: 4door preferred How will you be using the car?: Daily commute is almost 30 miles one way. So something that gets good mileage. I currently have an ancient 1999 Nissan Altima who is probably worth more as scrap than anything. There's stains inside, the windows don't roll down, and the last mechanic I called some names (for rolling down the windows, leaving them stuck down, so he took the door apart to force them up) didn't fix the driver side internal door, so none of the locks work without the alarm being set. I should have taken the car back to that place when another mechanic was on duty, but after asking them where the gently caress the third stooge was, it was probably better not to. Over 200,00 miles. I imagine the only reason no one's stolen it (when I worked in a bad area downtown Phoenix AZ) is because most car thieves want something that will at least look good.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:54
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Cowslips Warren posted:Proposed Budget: ~6-10k Use google to find a youtube guide on how to fix your windows and locks and fix it yourself with parts from a junkyard or ebay. Or find another mechanic.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:59
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IOwnCalculus posted:It's really a matter of what the local market will bear. I haven't found a Honda dealer in AZ that doesn't charge at least $399 for "doc fees" - and this is on top of the actual registration fee - because the laws here that limit such fees are minimal or nonexistent. Same in NC
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Oct 17, 2013 02:09
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I have a question for the thread: My GF is looking for a used car in the 5-10 grand range. What is best way to search when she isn't particularly picky outside of the price and that it is well maintained and reliable? Should I just run through the usual suspects of make/model on autotrader/craigslist/ebay or is there a more efficient way to do this?
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Oct 17, 2013 18:27
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IOwnCalculus posted:Trade-in is a super lowball. The used market here will snap up a Camry in a second (I sold one that needed a clutch very soon, and needed struts about 100k miles before that) for maybe $100 less than my asking price in a few days. Wow, 2500 for one with a blown motor, this is encouraging thanks!
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Oct 17, 2013 18:32
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What's the opinion on former rental vehicles? I've seen a few pop up in local dealer's stock (Car 1 and Car 2 as examples). These are both models and years I'm interested in but the thought of 50 different people having driven the car and not giving two shits about it gives me pause.
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Oct 18, 2013 14:07
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People tend to completely beat the poo poo out of rentals, I wouldn't go near one.
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Oct 18, 2013 14:56
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