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ruddiger posted:Jesus loving Christ are you being pedantic. Will you at least concede that the establishing shot has shadows at least? And I didn't originally say it was all black. I did say they were slivers of what can be seen throughout but it was unlike all six previous movies, which opened on fully exposed establishing shots of either planets or spaceships. Well, The Force Awakens ALSO opens on a fully exposed planetary body. Yes, the shot of the planet is then eclipsed, but it starts how they all start.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:03
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It never fails to blow my mind that people think The Force Awakens is visually nondescript. It's gorgeous. The huge panoramas on Jakku. The x-wings skimming over the water on Takodana or swooping into the trench on Starkiller base with their spotlights blazing. The long shot of Han and Ren on the bridge. This movie was gorgeous.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:20
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It was nice looking. I've just said the shots werent interesting like the PT and OT. Tough to say without the blueray and screen shots though.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:22
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Phylodox posted:It never fails to blow my mind that people think The Force Awakens is visually nondescript. It's gorgeous. The huge panoramas on Jakku. The x-wings skimming over the water on Takodana or swooping into the trench on Starkiller base with their spotlights blazing. The long shot of Han and Ren on the bridge. This movie was gorgeous. One goon said TFA reminded them of Marvel Cinematic Universe movies because of its "vanilla" visual aesthetic. Lmao.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:30
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teagone posted:One goon said TFA reminded them of Marvel Cinematic Universe movies because of its "vanilla" visual aesthetic. Lmao. I don't get that, either. I think some people just take criticism of The Avengers and apply it to the whole Marvel stable of films, as though visually distinct, interesting movies like Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy don't exist. Then again, I think most criticism of The Avengers' visuals are overblown, anyways, but this isn't the thread for that.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:35
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Phylodox posted:I don't get that, either. I think some people just take criticism of The Avengers and apply it to the whole Marvel stable of films, as though visually distinct, interesting movies like Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy don't exist. Yeah I def agree with that. Thor and Guardians were superb.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:38
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Everything in the New Mexico town in the first Thor was pretty bland imo. Thor 2 didn't look that great either; very muddy and flat. Guardians did remind me of The Fifth Element though. Still, I'm in the camp that puts The Force Awakens a fuckton of notches above any MCU film when it comes to visuals.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:53
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teagone posted:Everything in the New Mexico town in the first Thor was pretty bland imo. Thor 2 didn't look that great either; very muddy and flat. Guardians did remind me of The Fifth Element though. Still, I'm in the camp that puts The Force Awakens a fuckton of notches above any MCU film when it comes to visuals. I thought the composition of the NM town shots was interesting. And obviously the shakespearian shots in Asgaard or whatever it was called.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:57
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Thor 2 was a nightmare.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:58
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I think it's easy to confuse "bland" with "conventional" in Thor's case. Earth is supposed to appear more normal when contrasted with Asgard. It's a different style, but still effective and interesting. And The Dark World had some of the best design work of the whole Marvel franchise. But, again, maybe this isn't the thread for this.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:03
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I thought the film was rather sumptuous at times, although it doesn't ever linger. It's extremely content to quickly interrupt your viewing at every moment either by shorting how long a wide shot (Rey walking through the settlement under the setting sun) lasts or to literally interrupt them like the opening, C-3P0's interruption, or the robo-slavers who interrupt Rey as she looks at the old woman she might become. It's one of the central themes of the film though, the interruption of the comfortable, so it works but it can make the film feel like it doesn't have the same long shots of the unreal the series is known for. That said, the scene with Kylo Ren on the bridge while he is the only one in frame, with the background consisting entirely of the nacells of the conduit chamber talking to Han Solo off-screen looked like hot doggerel in 3D. It's all the issues of the PT CGI compounded with over-busy background details and poor angling and it was such a jarringly badly composited shot in the film that it took me out for a moment.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:05
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I think that I take exception to your reading (using this as a convenient responding point) because there are too many parallels set up between the Resistance and First Order for me to assume that the film endorses the Resistance's phony pastoralism out of hand.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:10
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I just saw the film for the second time and I liked it even more this time. I looked out for a couple things and during the Rey flashback I am 99% sure that the dude Kylo Ren kills is a Knight of Ren who was just about to murder someone. So I think Ren saved little Rey at the last second. Also the last 30 seconds wasn't as awkward this time. But the helicopter shot was still atrocious. It REALLY should have ended with a steady low angle shot of both of them silhouetted against the sun. Even a flat angle shot would have looked good. Not a helicopter shot. edit: oh I see there's only actual movie discussion in the spoiler thread. NM Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 3, 2016 |
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Jan 3, 2016 05:16
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I looked out for a couple things and during the Rey flashback I am 99% sure that the dude Kylo Ren kills is a Knight of Ren who was just about to murder someone. So I think Ren saved little Rey at the last second. This is what I thought too, outside of the Knight of Ren part (he's wearing way too big a hat, compare him to the goon squad standing behind Ren). He looks like he's about to attack Rey when Ren stabs him.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:29
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turtlecrunch posted:This is what I thought too, outside of the Knight of Ren part (he's wearing way too big a hat, compare him to the goon squad standing behind Ren). He looks like he's about to attack Rey when Ren stabs him. The ones behind Ren are probably the ones he didn't kill, though.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:32
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My suspicion is that Kylo and the Knights were just killing everyone indiscriminately until suddenly Kylo spots little Rey and jumps into save her from one of the knights who was just going to murder her too. Why I have no idea.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:35
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:My suspicion is that Kylo and the Knights were just killing everyone indiscriminately until suddenly Kylo spots little Rey and jumps into save her from one of the knights who was just going to murder her too. Why I have no idea. I hope we meet Adoy, Kylo's extremely tall mentor, who trains him in the next film warning him that "Contentment, hope, compassion; the light side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a conversation. If once you start down the light path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wans apprentice."
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Jan 3, 2016 05:44
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I just saw the film for the second time and I liked it even more this time. Don't call it a flashback! You might confuse some of our more special forums posters, the ones who have to read these posts at 4x font size and who have to call their mom to help them with the big words. It's okay guys. You can still love Star Wars even at that speed!
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Jan 3, 2016 06:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:My suspicion is that Kylo and the Knights were just killing everyone indiscriminately until suddenly Kylo spots little Rey and jumps into save her from one of the knights who was just going to murder her too. Why I have no idea. Considering that he's constantly struggling with temptation towards the light side, it makes sense that a young Ren would draw the line at child murder. I'd even go so far as to say it could be the moment Rey uses to recover him (and why Luke never gives up on trying to bring him back with light-side mind shenanigans)
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Jan 3, 2016 06:02
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Neurolimal posted:Considering that he's constantly struggling with temptation towards the light side, it makes sense that a young Ren would draw the line at child murder. I'd even go so far as to say it could be the moment Rey uses to recover him. That or use it to utterly destroy him, as he couldn't even live up to one of the very first things Darth Vader did.
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Jan 3, 2016 06:03
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Barudak posted:That or use it to utterly destroy him, as he couldn't even live up to one of the very first things Darth Vader did. That could be pretty interesting, and make for a good twist on the false-Vader arc; Rey uses it to try to get through to him, but instead makes him realize he can't pray the light side away, makes one final sacrifice to the Dark Side via blowing up X superweapon to kill as many rebels as possible. Allows an ESB lowest-low ending while still allowing some sort of victory and motivation to lead into episode 9. Speaking of superweapons, I'm really bummed they cut the Rebel superweapon; not only is it a really awesome ship design, but it manages to be a superweapon that doesn't make the rebels into Empire 2.0 (since all it's good for is bunker busting slow-moving planetkilling artillery). It would have also made for a way better setpiece to represent the rebel side of the Starkiller fight than [X random pilot explodes, continue swoopy dogfight].
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Jan 3, 2016 06:14
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Jewel Repetition posted:Lol this guy posted "weird thoughts" at someone The problem is that despite this, his posting remains both truthful and accurate.
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Jan 3, 2016 06:23
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Phylodox posted:It never fails to blow my mind that people think The Force Awakens is visually nondescript. It's gorgeous. The huge panoramas on Jakku. The x-wings skimming over the water on Takodana or swooping into the trench on Starkiller base with their spotlights blazing. The long shot of Han and Ren on the bridge. This movie was gorgeous. Jakku really didn't have huge panoramas except for that one at the beginning with the Star Destroyer. There's glimmers of what could be with Finn's trek through the desert, but I think the longest shot we get is like 5 seconds long, and it's very boring scenery (just sand dunes).
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Jan 3, 2016 07:02
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Digiwizzard posted:The problem is that despite this, his posting remains both truthful and accurate.
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Jan 3, 2016 07:43
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Effectronica posted:I think that I take exception to your reading (using this as a convenient responding point) because there are too many parallels set up between the Resistance and First Order for me to assume that the film endorses the Resistance's phony pastoralism out of hand. I agree - but the problem is that, unlike the prequels, this is absolutely non-satirical. And unlike Episodes 4 & 5, it doesn't function as a standalone film. (The rebellion in Episode 4 is still laudable, despite the implication that they still haven't gone far enough). Previously, the six-film cycle revolved around the failure of Episode 6 - its failure to provide an adequate solution to the issues raised in the earlier films. In the attempt to 'fix'/extend Star Wars by eliminating Episode 6, Force Awakens ironically takes on the role of being 'the dumb one'. Now everything will grow from the very deliberate failure of this film. That's how you start a Marvel-type franchise. euphronius posted:It was nice looking. I've just said the shots werent interesting like the PT and OT. Tough to say without the blueray and screen shots though. Force Awakens doesn't look 'bad' per se, but it is pretty much devoid of stylization, which is bizarre for a Star Wars film.
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Jan 3, 2016 08:29
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Hazo posted:In just the last few pages, he has claimed that A) Every movie opens with a pan toward the primary planet setting; and B) General Grievous fights a giant lizard in Episode III. Not the primary planet setting. To be specific, it is always a shot of a ship approaching a planet where action does take place. Episode 5 is an exception because the ship is approaching from extremely far away, so it's necessary to include a time-jumping cut. Also, General Greivous does fight a giant lizard.
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Jan 3, 2016 08:41
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like it or not, the prequels have powerful imagery and memorable dialogue. That's why people get worked up over them. No, I got worked up because they were dull, uninteresting wastes of time compared to the original trilogy. They didn't speak to me, I didn't care about the characters. Massive wastes of potential. The true test of any work of art is what it conveys to the audience, regardless of authorial intent. The prequels exist because the original trilogy told a story in a way that resonated deeply with the vast majority of the people who saw it. They did not, not for me and many other people. The execution was so bad that anything worthwhile that can be gleaned from watching them can be gotten just as if not more easily, and definitely more pleasantly from the novelizations.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:15
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rockopete posted:No, I got worked up because they were dull, uninteresting wastes of time compared to the original trilogy. They didn't speak to me, I didn't care about the characters. Massive wastes of potential. The true test of any work of art is what it conveys to the audience, regardless of authorial intent. The prequels exist because the original trilogy told a story in a way that resonated deeply with the vast majority of the people who saw it. They did not, not for me and many other people. The execution was so bad that anything worthwhile that can be gleaned from watching them can be gotten just as if not more easily, and definitely more pleasantly from the novelizations. Ehhh I don't totally agree the PT drives people nuts wholly on its own, but there's plenty of poo poo (Indiana Jones IV, Matrix III) that's widely despised without being obsessed over the way the prequels are. Maybe it's merely that's they're uniquely, idiosyncratically bad in a way that modern blockbusters are never allowed to be, but it's still a whole lot of something.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Not the primary planet setting. To be specific, it is always a shot of a ship approaching a planet where action does take place. SuperMechagodzilla posted:In every previous Star Wars film, this would be an establishing shot of the major planetary setting SuperMechagodzilla posted:Also, General Greivous does fight a giant lizard.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:24
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Hazo posted:It is okay to admit that you are wrong. Doesn't Obi Wan ride a giant lizard?
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Jan 3, 2016 09:25
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He does fight Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan is riding a giant lizard. He never directly attacks the giant defenseless unarmored lizard, but the giant lizard was involved in their fight, so I'd say it counts.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:26
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BrianWilly posted:He does fight Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan is riding a giant lizard. He never directly attacks the giant defenseless unarmored lizard, but the giant lizard was involved in their fight, so I'd say it counts.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:33
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Hazo posted:Correct. Obi-Wan rides a giant lizard while pursuing Grievous, who himself is riding an odd sort of motorcycle. While Obi-Wan attacks Grievous's cycle, Grievous completely ignores Obi-Wan's mount, and the lizard is in fact left behind partway through the chase sequence before the final confrontation. Grievous is near a giant lizard while he is fighting Obi-Wan. However, there is no reasonable reading wherein you could reasonably say "General Grievous fights a giant lizard." It's not the most obvious connotation, but it's valid--they're at war; like, Lend-Lease is mattered a lot.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:34
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porfiria posted:Ehhh I don't totally agree the PT drives people nuts wholly on its own, but there's plenty of poo poo (Indiana Jones IV, Matrix III) that's widely despised without being obsessed over the way the prequels are. Maybe it's merely that's they're uniquely, idiosyncratically bad in a way that modern blockbusters are never allowed to be, but it's still a whole lot of something. By comparison the prequels moved back a long ways, had only a few characters in common, and there were three of them. What temerity this imp Lucas has! One other distinguishing feature is that there wasn't fan theories and speculation about Indiana Jones, at least not where I saw it. There was tons of speculation about the finale of the Matrix but it came out soon enough after Reloaded that people couldn't work themselves up into a froth - there weren't years and years of extended universe materials to set one's heart on. porfiria posted:It's not the most obvious connotation, but it's valid--they're at war; like, Lend-Lease is mattered a lot.
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Jan 3, 2016 09:37
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rockopete posted:No, I got worked up because they were dull, uninteresting wastes of time compared to the original trilogy. They didn't speak to me, I didn't care about the characters. Massive wastes of potential. The true test of any work of art is what it conveys to the audience, regardless of authorial intent. The prequels exist because the original trilogy told a story in a way that resonated deeply with the vast majority of the people who saw it. They did not, not for me and many other people. The execution was so bad that anything worthwhile that can be gleaned from watching them can be gotten just as if not more easily, and definitely more pleasantly from the novelizations. People generally do not understand why they like or dislike things. In this case, you are fixated on the 'potential' of Star Wars to 'deeply resonate' inside you. And this has led you, like many others, to constantly probe the prequel films in search of this 'deep resonance'. (And then, to construct elaborate theories about its theft from you.) Meanwhile, Yoda is kung-fu fighting Count Dracula, completely insensate to your misgivings. Yoda's just dancing away, and audiences love it. But you're all harrumphing that you can glean the necessary information from the novelization. You went so far as to read the novelization of a 'terrible' film to avoid the powerful imagery that made people laugh, and cringe, and cheer. Surely you agree that that is unusual behavior. Hazo posted:It is okay to admit that you are wrong. 'Primary' and 'major' are different words. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Jan 3, 2016 |
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Jan 3, 2016 09:42
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Hazo posted:Correct. Obi-Wan rides a giant lizard while pursuing Grievous, who himself is riding an odd sort of motorcycle. While Obi-Wan attacks Grievous's cycle, Grievous completely ignores Obi-Wan's mount, and the lizard is in fact left behind partway through the chase sequence before the final confrontation. Grievous is near a giant lizard while he is fighting Obi-Wan. However, even through the most tortured analysis, there is no reading wherein you could reasonably say "General Grievous fights a giant lizard." Lmao this thread is so goofy
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Jan 3, 2016 11:58
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Nessus posted:I imagine one of the big differences, other than Star Wars being a formative imprint on people's toyetic consciousness, is that the Indy and Matrix films, even if you don't like them, are logical sequels. Crystal Skull isn't even the worst Indiana Jones movie! But there's a sequence of events. I like Crystal Skull but I think it's indeed tied for "worst" Indiana Jones movie with Last Crusade. Neither of them are bad movies, though. I only say this because I feel like you're implying that Temple of Doom is a bad movie, and those are fighting words. Depending on my mood, I sometimes enjoy Temple of Doom more than I enjoy Raiders.
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Jan 3, 2016 12:04
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Cnut the Great posted:I like Crystal Skull but I think it's indeed tied for "worst" Indiana Jones movie with Last Crusade. Neither of them are bad movies, though. Aww Last Crusade is the best one. 
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Jan 3, 2016 12:08
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Steve2911 posted:Aww Last Crusade is the best one. It does have the best piece of music John Williams has ever composed, IMO. There's just something about the Grail Theme that gets me every time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzIv3WNzooQ
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Jan 3, 2016 12:13
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Steve2911 posted:Aww Last Crusade is the best one. Personally, I find it a bit too tongue-in-cheek, winking-at-the-audience for my tastes. For me, it holds up the poorest of the first three Indiana Jones movies. My wife can't stand Temple of Doom, though. Because of the racism.
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Jan 3, 2016 12:27
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