Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Mukaikubo posted:

Given that we are talking about the stupidity of the homeworld Clans in canon, I feel like it is my responsibility- as one of the few people in the thread that does not appear to viscerally loathe the clans in and out of game and would wish that they had never been invented- to give a sort of counterexample.

Consider if you will, a Clan founded by a near universally respected army commander in Kerensky's army, someone who when they were allowed to choose their warriors to found their clan opted to choose an enlisted man and technician as their second in command rather than a mechwarrior and officer (though his choice quickly tested successfully to become a mechwarrior), a founder that from the word go drilled into his troops the value of meticulous planning and preparation, in contrast to the Ice Hellions GOTTAGOFAAAAAAAAAST ethos, and a founder who was responsible for planning the successful liberation of the Clans' homeworld. Consider this clan that early on, looked around and said, "So, okay, trueborns are obviously at the top of the heap, but we would have to be a special kind of moron to reject freeborn warriors who are good at their jobs, or old warriors who can still fight. You know what? Let us not go out of our way to denigrate people who can still fight well for the clan. You know what? Let us go fruther, let us make a special position whose responsibility is to speak up for lower ranking warriors, freeborns, and non-warriors to the Khans, just so we can be sure we are not loving things up here." Consider this clan that almost alone regards the Kerenskys as genius military leaders but not actual demigods, a clan that has a functioning Watch that can find their rear end with both hands... are you getting the picture?

Consider this clan, whose response to the Dragoon intelligence reports was NOT confusion and derision, but a sober estimate of how much force it would actually take to conquer Terra. Their carefully planned estimate was, of course, eliminated from bidding as the other morons all bid low because of course the invasion would be easy. This clan had to sit around and watch as their moron brothers and sisters got their faces beat in and stalled out not even halfway to Terra and lose almost every major battle they fought in, and then after two years of that had to watch their moron siblings still not learn their lesson and plan out a campaign like they would and as a result get turfed on Tukayyid. But that was okay! This clan got into a bit of a scrap, and then absorbed another clan that ended up working with pirates and tried to cover it up, and finally moved into a leadership position of the clans. So finally the Inner Sphere comes to Strana Mechty, and this clan we are considering perks up and puts their intelligence into action. They beat the living poo poo out of the First Free Worlds Guards with barely any losses. Only the Falcons managed to win aside from them. But then they get back to their encampment and, SURPRISE! Their moron siblings managed to gently caress it all up and now the entire invasion of the inner sphere, which they were kept out of because they were too smart and planned too well, has been rejected.

Look, I am not saying that Clan Star Adder is perfect, but they are probably the least unlikable and most competent clan. Go Star Adder! You frankly do not belong in the canon clans. You are far too effective and sane.



Is it any surprise after all that poo poo that after the Wars of Reaving the Star Adders basically run the homeworld clans? As in they have a massive, massive majority of basically everything, the other surviving homeworld clans that did not flee are their puppets... they run the joint. They are simply competent, which few other clans can boast.

Just so you know, I triple checked this for contractions.

PTN, can we get a big 'where are they now?' mission/update

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

PoptartsNinja posted:

Just a progress report.

I'm setting up sprites for the next mission, and one of the ones I wanted was incredibly terrible (I had to fix it) and another I had to create from scratch. The map's done though, so I figured I'd show that off at half-size so you can start worrying.



For this mission we've hit the battlemechs with a shrink ray and they have to travel up Takashi's colon to destroy a cancerous polyp.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I know that this is throwing votes at something that can't happen, but I'm going to register my vote for E.

Also that map looks really rough if only one side has jets. That's a lot of height 0 to 3 borders. Not a lot of long lines of sight, either.

Weissritter
Jun 14, 2012

Mukaikubo posted:

Given that we are talking about the stupidity of the homeworld Clans in canon, I feel like it is my responsibility- as one of the few people in the thread that does not appear to viscerally loathe the clans in and out of game and would wish that they had never been invented- to give a sort of counterexample.

Consider if you will, a Clan founded by a near universally respected army commander in Kerensky's army, someone who when they were allowed to choose their warriors to found their clan opted to choose an enlisted man and technician as their second in command rather than a mechwarrior and officer (though his choice quickly tested successfully to become a mechwarrior), a founder that from the word go drilled into his troops the value of meticulous planning and preparation, in contrast to the Ice Hellions GOTTAGOFAAAAAAAAAST ethos, and a founder who was responsible for planning the successful liberation of the Clans' homeworld. Consider this clan that early on, looked around and said, "So, okay, trueborns are obviously at the top of the heap, but we would have to be a special kind of moron to reject freeborn warriors who are good at their jobs, or old warriors who can still fight. You know what? Let us not go out of our way to denigrate people who can still fight well for the clan. You know what? Let us go fruther, let us make a special position whose responsibility is to speak up for lower ranking warriors, freeborns, and non-warriors to the Khans, just so we can be sure we are not loving things up here." Consider this clan that almost alone regards the Kerenskys as genius military leaders but not actual demigods, a clan that has a functioning Watch that can find their rear end with both hands... are you getting the picture?

Consider this clan, whose response to the Dragoon intelligence reports was NOT confusion and derision, but a sober estimate of how much force it would actually take to conquer Terra. Their carefully planned estimate was, of course, eliminated from bidding as the other morons all bid low because of course the invasion would be easy. This clan had to sit around and watch as their moron brothers and sisters got their faces beat in and stalled out not even halfway to Terra and lose almost every major battle they fought in, and then after two years of that had to watch their moron siblings still not learn their lesson and plan out a campaign like they would and as a result get turfed on Tukayyid. But that was okay! This clan got into a bit of a scrap, and then absorbed another clan that ended up working with pirates and tried to cover it up, and finally moved into a leadership position of the clans. So finally the Inner Sphere comes to Strana Mechty, and this clan we are considering perks up and puts their intelligence into action. They beat the living poo poo out of the First Free Worlds Guards with barely any losses. Only the Falcons managed to win aside from them. But then they get back to their encampment and, SURPRISE! Their moron siblings managed to gently caress it all up and now the entire invasion of the inner sphere, which they were kept out of because they were too smart and planned too well, has been rejected.

Look, I am not saying that Clan Star Adder is perfect, but they are probably the least unlikable and most competent clan. Go Star Adder! You frankly do not belong in the canon clans. You are far too effective and sane.



Is it any surprise after all that poo poo that after the Wars of Reaving the Star Adders basically run the homeworld clans? As in they have a massive, massive majority of basically everything, the other surviving homeworld clans that did not flee are their puppets... they run the joint. They are simply competent, which few other clans can boast.

Voting for E after reading this.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

the JJ posted:

Just so you know, I triple checked this for contractions.

PTN, can we get a big 'where are they now?' mission/update

I know it's a big ask, but after this little mini-campaign a big ole update catching up with all the people we've sorta left hanging would be pretty nice. (Not that it needs actual fluff vs just a quick couple lines of what's going on with various groups or individuals we've had votes on and passed up in the past)

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Mukaikubo posted:

Given that we are talking about the stupidity of the homeworld Clans in canon, I feel like it is my responsibility- as one of the few people in the thread that does not appear to viscerally loathe the clans in and out of game and would wish that they had never been invented- to give a sort of counterexample.

Consider if you will, a Clan founded by a near universally respected army commander in Kerensky's army, someone who when they were allowed to choose their warriors to found their clan opted to choose an enlisted man and technician as their second in command rather than a mechwarrior and officer (though his choice quickly tested successfully to become a mechwarrior), a founder that from the word go drilled into his troops the value of meticulous planning and preparation, in contrast to the Ice Hellions GOTTAGOFAAAAAAAAAST ethos, and a founder who was responsible for planning the successful liberation of the Clans' homeworld. Consider this clan that early on, looked around and said, "So, okay, trueborns are obviously at the top of the heap, but we would have to be a special kind of moron to reject freeborn warriors who are good at their jobs, or old warriors who can still fight. You know what? Let us not go out of our way to denigrate people who can still fight well for the clan. You know what? Let us go fruther, let us make a special position whose responsibility is to speak up for lower ranking warriors, freeborns, and non-warriors to the Khans, just so we can be sure we are not loving things up here." Consider this clan that almost alone regards the Kerenskys as genius military leaders but not actual demigods, a clan that has a functioning Watch that can find their rear end with both hands... are you getting the picture?

Consider this clan, whose response to the Dragoon intelligence reports was NOT confusion and derision, but a sober estimate of how much force it would actually take to conquer Terra. Their carefully planned estimate was, of course, eliminated from bidding as the other morons all bid low because of course the invasion would be easy. This clan had to sit around and watch as their moron brothers and sisters got their faces beat in and stalled out not even halfway to Terra and lose almost every major battle they fought in, and then after two years of that had to watch their moron siblings still not learn their lesson and plan out a campaign like they would and as a result get turfed on Tukayyid. But that was okay! This clan got into a bit of a scrap, and then absorbed another clan that ended up working with pirates and tried to cover it up, and finally moved into a leadership position of the clans. So finally the Inner Sphere comes to Strana Mechty, and this clan we are considering perks up and puts their intelligence into action. They beat the living poo poo out of the First Free Worlds Guards with barely any losses. Only the Falcons managed to win aside from them. But then they get back to their encampment and, SURPRISE! Their moron siblings managed to gently caress it all up and now the entire invasion of the inner sphere, which they were kept out of because they were too smart and planned too well, has been rejected.

Look, I am not saying that Clan Star Adder is perfect, but they are probably the least unlikable and most competent clan. Go Star Adder! You frankly do not belong in the canon clans. You are far too effective and sane.



Is it any surprise after all that poo poo that after the Wars of Reaving the Star Adders basically run the homeworld clans? As in they have a massive, massive majority of basically everything, the other surviving homeworld clans that did not flee are their puppets... they run the joint. They are simply competent, which few other clans can boast.

So basically what you're saying is #NotAllClans.


the JJ posted:

PTN, can we get a big 'where are they now?' mission/update

Seconding this. Now I want to know what's going on with House Steiner of Gallery.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Defiance Industries posted:

So basically what you're saying is #NotAllClans.

:drat:

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


Olothreutes posted:

Also that map looks really rough if only one side has jets. That's a lot of height 0 to 3 borders. Not a lot of long lines of sight, either.

It's ambush alley for sure. Only question is whether Carlos is the ambusher or ambushee. Wasn't his mission last time around that didn't get picked some kind of recon? Maybe prepping for this?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Dolash posted:

It's ambush alley for sure. Only question is whether Carlos is the ambusher or ambushee. Wasn't his mission last time around that didn't get picked some kind of recon? Maybe prepping for this?

I don't remember that distinctly, but the end of the mission before that, his crew retreated into the Badlands, where it would be "crazy" for anyone to try and follow him. Seems likely he'd be ambushing them.

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009

Zaodai posted:

I don't remember that distinctly, but the end of the mission before that, his crew retreated into the Badlands, where it would be "crazy" for anyone to try and follow him. Seems likely he'd be ambushing them.

A game of cat and mouse for x number of turns when the Red Corsair shows up, maybe.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
Four King Crabs are hiding in the -2 water.

Mukaikubo
Mar 14, 2006

"You treat her like a lady... and she'll always bring you home."

the JJ posted:

Just so you know, I triple checked this for contractions.

PTN, can we get a big 'where are they now?' mission/update

I knew that someone would. Par for the course at this point. And yeah, I suppose #NotAllClans is accurate. I mean, the Star Adders are... different from the other clans. They are still dangerously insane eugenicists, but at least they are not pants on head moronic incompetents that just happen to have superior technology!

CoffeeQaddaffi
Mar 20, 2009

Psion posted:

Four King Crabs are hiding in the -2 water.

What colors are they though?

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW

dis astranagant posted:

Interdiction isn't something you break. Comstar doesn't like doing it because they involve destroying a whole lot of equipment, even though they don't usually nuke their own installations like that. HPGs are rendered inoperable, albeit relatively easy to repair if you know exactly how they're built. Anything they don't want reverse engineered is removed or destroyed and the staff goes into hiding. Even after its lifted you're looking at significant time spent repairing the damage and getting everyone back where they need to be.

I also imagine they aren't fans of cutting off like a fifth of their revenue streams or whatever. The technicians don't pay themselves! Well, unless they're payroll technicians I guess.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

paragon1 posted:

I also imagine they aren't fans of cutting off like a fifth of their revenue streams or whatever. The technicians don't pay themselves! Well, unless they're payroll technicians I guess.

The technicians are essentially monks, so I imagine a fair number of them would just shrug and say "Welp, it's Blake's Will that I not get a paycheck this week. Oh well!"

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


They still get food and clothes and stuff from Comstar. What are they going to spend their paycheck on?

It'd be like if you ran the servers for some weird high-tech king that happened to exist in 16th century Europe. You get food, you get clothes, you get to live in a house that has electricity while everyone else farms dirt. Even if you don't get your paycheck, you're still better off than most non-Comstar people (nobility aside).

CISscum
Nov 15, 2014
The Red Corsair is the most sensible option.
The Clans is the most hilarious option.
And Stefan Amaris is the most retarded.
It's FWL, so voting E) The Clans.

Viva Miriya
Jan 9, 2007

Guys please switch your votes to E please. Red corsair is the smartest but The Clans would be the most hilarious. Also make it Clan Star Adder tia.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Oh, I haven't officially voted yet. Red Corsair.

Ultimately, it came down to I think Red Corsair will be more interesting storywise. And the fight should be interesting. :getin:

mcjomar
Jun 11, 2012

Grimey Drawer

PoptartsNinja posted:


Request Assistance From
A) ComStar
B) Stefan Amaris
C) The Red Corsair
D) Hanse Davion
E) The Clans

Comstar would be a retread of the prime universe, so that's a no.
Stefan Amaris already backstabbed once, so clearly he'll do it some more.
Davion is too busy on the other side of the CapCon to waste time coming to bother with Marik space.
And while the idea of Clan Purple Bird is hilarious, the better idea of getting Melissa Steiner working with Duncan Marik to fight cappies (and potentially put a Steiner on a Marik throne? No? the political fallout of this doesn't amuse anyone?) sounds like the most workable way to keep the Mariks actually relevant.

So I'm bowing to the inevitable and voting C) The Red Corsair and jumping on :bandwagon:

Also the smoke jaguars aren't even dead in the prime universe :ssh:

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Zaodai posted:

They still get food and clothes and stuff from Comstar. What are they going to spend their paycheck on?

It'd be like if you ran the servers for some weird high-tech king that happened to exist in 16th century Europe. You get food, you get clothes, you get to live in a house that has electricity while everyone else farms dirt. Even if you don't get your paycheck, you're still better off than most non-Comstar people (nobility aside).

They also control the rates for transmission so if they lose the 15% of the Sphere that the CapCon represents (and probably less than that in market share) they just raise everyone else's rates.

sheep-dodger
Feb 21, 2013

I'll add a vote for the Red Corsair, maybe the dashing princess will win the blushing prince's heart.
Watch as they get headcapped within the first five turns

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Gwaihir posted:

I know it's a big ask, but after this little mini-campaign a big ole update catching up with all the people we've sorta left hanging would be pretty nice. (Not that it needs actual fluff vs just a quick couple lines of what's going on with various groups or individuals we've had votes on and passed up in the past)

Yeah, this vote really highlights that it's been a long time since we've seen a lot of these people and it's really difficult to remember who's had dealings with who.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
I hope that all the height 0 in that map is actually swamp and everyone has to move like slugs apart from three dudes lording it up in hovertanks.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....
Note the complete lack of height 1 hexes. All hills are LoS blockers :v:

This map is basically brawl central. I hope you brought your jump jets!

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Defiance Industries posted:

They also control the rates for transmission so if they lose the 15% of the Sphere that the CapCon represents (and probably less than that in market share) they just raise everyone else's rates.

Given that the C-Bill is supposed to be pegged to a particular amount of data that you can send via HPG, what would the impact of that be on the economies of the inner sphere? Do the prices of weapons appear to drop since mercenaries are paying for them in C-Bills?

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

goatface posted:

I hope that all the height 0 in that map is actually swamp and everyone has to move like slugs apart from three dudes lording it up in hovertanks.

Nothing so severe. The penalty comes to any `Mech standing on a hex above height 0. One player has the ability to negate this penalty.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Volmarias posted:

Given that the C-Bill is supposed to be pegged to a particular amount of data that you can send via HPG, what would the impact of that be on the economies of the inner sphere? Do the prices of weapons appear to drop since mercenaries are paying for them in C-Bills?

Not really, the price of equipment didn't suddenly balloon in the Dark Age when the Kroner was suddenly worth ten C-Bills a piece instead of two. If you want to handwave that you could say that the Lyran or whatever arms manufacturers work under price controls to keep the price of a medium laser the same whether its from Defiance Industries or StarCorps, which would be pretty important given how frequently Mechs are put together with replacement parts (and Omnis exist)

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Defiance Industries posted:

They also control the rates for transmission so if they lose the 15% of the Sphere that the CapCon represents (and probably less than that in market share) they just raise everyone else's rates.

"What's that, guys? You're mad we raised your rates? Well, if you go conquer the Capellan Confederation so we don't have to interdict those markets anymore, we can lower them again."

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Volmarias posted:

Given that the C-Bill is supposed to be pegged to a particular amount of data that you can send via HPG, what would the impact of that be on the economies of the inner sphere? Do the prices of weapons appear to drop since mercenaries are paying for them in C-Bills?

I don't wanna bore everyone with currencychat again, so I'll just say: effectively ComStar's cell phone minutes are a currency, but if less cell phone minutes are available, they're deflating the currency (e.g., prices and wages both fall). This sounds great but it's actually very very bad because when prices are falling there's a strong incentive to save (my saved money buys more tomorrow than it does today) and a commensurate disincentive to invest (why try to earn a small percentage interest/return with an investment when I can just let my money gain value while it's stuffed in a matress). This is economic death.

Presumably ComStar benefits by raising how many house bucks you have to give them to buy a C-Bill, and the rest of the economy plays along by raising how much stuff you can buy with a C-Bill. Deflationary economy, disaster.

But... hey, in a feudal economy, deflation probably isn't so bad, because nobody's investing in stuff anyway. Lords are just holding land that serfs are working, the lords take a direct share, everyone just sort of survives. You can't build new factories or invest in new technologies so much if you need financing to do that, but if you're a feudal lord, maybe you just order your serfs to do it and they do it.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


New factories and tech are a crappy investment in the Inner Sphere. New factories give the other Houses a reason to come raid that planet (and probably blow up the factory like dumbasses), trying to create new tech gets you killed by ComStar.

It's all one gigantic rig job to keep everyone at relative parity to make the fights go on forever.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Zaodai posted:

It's all one gigantic rig job to keep everyone at relative parity to make the fights go on forever.

ComStar did a pretty great job with that, didn't they? I mean, their end game was that there would be no advancement and eventually when the last machine broke down ComStar would swoop in, and they were pretty well on the way there.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Defiance Industries posted:

ComStar did a pretty great job with that, didn't they? I mean, their end game was that there would be no advancement and eventually when the last machine broke down ComStar would swoop in, and they were pretty well on the way there.

Except for the part where they didn't bother to do tech advancement themselves until well after the Clans show up. You'd think as the one group who doesn't have to worry about randomly getting murdered (because they're the murderers) for designing new tech, AND the one group that knows the Clans exist, they'd have tried to build up their edge against the rest of the Inner Sphere. They just kinda sat on their asses with Star League tech until Wobbies poof into existence. My knowledge of that era is all gleamed form the thread though, since it seems incredibly retarded and uninteresting, so I could be wrong.

Regardless, if the Clans could come up with fancy weapons despite their limitations, ComStar should have had at least equivalent tech by the time the Clans showed up.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I've never really understood where the hell the clanners got their advances over SLDF tech. I can see them preserving it, but their society doesn't seem like it would do much to promote technological progress and advancement.

Ardlen
Sep 30, 2005
WoT



Zaodai posted:

Regardless, if the Clans could come up with fancy weapons despite their limitations, ComStar should have had at least equivalent tech by the time the Clans showed up.
Except ComStar thought they knew all the players - why bother to research new tech when the tech you have is already superior to everyone else's?

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Night10194 posted:

I've never really understood where the hell the clanners got their advances over SLDF tech. I can see them preserving it, but their society doesn't seem like it would do much to promote technological progress and advancement.

They really just made incremental improvements on weapons that were already in prototype phases when the SLDF left, like the OmniMech being derived from the Mercury. Most of the Clans improvements happened shortly after Nicky died and then they sat on their asses for two hundred years.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Defiance Industries posted:

They really just made incremental improvements on weapons that were already in prototype phases when the SLDF left. Most of the Clans improvements happened shortly after Nicky died and then they sat on their asses for two hundred years.

So basically, Nicky's legacy pretty much put a stop to any further advances?

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Night10194 posted:

So basically, Nicky's legacy pretty much put a stop to any further advances?

The Warrior caste directs what the Scientist caste works on, is it any surprise that they just got told to make a gun that shoot lazor more harder? The complete lack of vision is part of what gave rise to The Society.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Ardlen posted:

Except ComStar thought they knew all the players - why bother to research new tech when the tech you have is already superior to everyone else's?

They knew about the Clans, though. They had a reason to care. On top of that, they know SLDF tech gets found in cache's around the sphere occasionally, and that at the very least the Houses know it exists. The reason you keep advancing is because 1) you can never have too much of an advantage and 2) you might as well try and beat the best known tech. Progress is basically it's own reward, especially in a system where you control the economy. They're never going to go broke, they could afford all the research they wanted. Maybe they come up with something that completely ruins battlemechs. Maybe they get better missile systems, or better armor, or something.

You keep researching because if you sit on your rear end, someone may eventually catch you.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pussy Cartel
Jun 26, 2011



Lipstick Apathy
Wasn't a lot of the crazier Blakist tech based on old C* projects that had been mothballed or hadn't paid off earlier?

  • Locked thread