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Phanatic posted:
It's pretty clear that the way they were able to put "self-driving cars" on the streets was to simplify things in their programming so the car didn't have to deal with as many variables. Waymo's had cars on the road for 7 years now and they still don't claim their cars are able to fully drive themselves safely. They (Waymo) just got the go-ahead a few months ago from the DMV to start putting their cars out without any driver and they haven't confirmed if they've actually done that yet. If you read what they've said over the years, the simple fact is there are so many variable situations in driving that claiming your car is able to handle all of them is simply not workable at this current moment (and essentially Waymo's just been gathering data for years on how driving situations can unfold). Instead of doing that, Uber just removed any variables that would make the system harder to program / manage and harder for the car to make decisions with. So their driving model says "pedestrians are only in crosswalks". Great, fine, you removed a whole bunch of complexity and your car can now operate itself. Except...you don't control the loving real world, so guess what, your model is wrong and unlike a phone app when your model is wrong on a self-driving car, people die. Uber just depended on the human at the wheel to take care of those gaps in the model, except the human said "great, car drives itself, I can watch movies, this job is cake", because yeah that's exactly what a low-paid employee is gonna do if the car has been driving itself fine for months. VVVV the point is that Americans don't know how four-way stops work. No one knows the right-of-way rules, so "person arriving first goes first, if you arrive at the same time person to the right goes first, people going straight have right-of-way over turners" is just not a thing that Americans are very familiar with due to our lovely driver-education system. 4-way stops (and downed traffic lights) in general just turn into games of chicken about who's gonna dart into the intersection first and so it becomes thunderdome and you get a bunch more accidents than you should. SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 21:46
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PittTheElder posted:Is this just because Americans are terrible drivers? That's what we do in Canada and it works fine. Yeah I want to know what exactly is being implied too. Fellow  and 'treat it as a 4 way stop' is kind of crucial.What are the alternatives? Accelerate, horn, close eyes?
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Nov 8, 2019 21:46
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DarkDobe posted:Yeah I want to know what exactly is being implied too. Dunno what these other fools are talking about, that's how it's handled in the US too; yeah you get some assholes that will just follow the car infront of them immediately but I assume assholes are everywhere.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:50
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you put a few orange cones in the middle of the intersection and it is now a roundabout
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Nov 8, 2019 21:51
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Super Soaker Party! posted:Except...you don't control the loving real world, so guess what, your model is wrong and unlike a phone app when your model is wrong on a self-driving car, people die. Uber just depended on the human at the wheel to take care of those gaps in the model, except the human said "great, car drives itself, I can watch movies, this job is cake", because yeah that's exactly what a low-paid employee is gonna do if the car has been driving itself fine for months. And that's what everyone is going to do, so the whole model where "if the car suddenly doesn't know what to do it will alert the human who will take the wheel" is fundamentally broken.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:51
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I really wish my job site didn’t have a no-cell phones no-photos policy. We had a weld failure on a high-pressure steam pipe and a 27-pound valve rocketed into the ceiling. And stayed there. It was impressive.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:00
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Cojawfee posted:CEASE FIRE BITCH Congratulations; it’s a range safety officer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpUuym8rS-s
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Nov 8, 2019 22:02
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Phanatic posted:And that's what everyone is going to do, so the whole model where "if the car suddenly doesn't know what to do it will alert the human who will take the wheel" is fundamentally broken. Yup usually the moment I'm woken up from sleep I can't even tell what day it is, let alone assume control of a vehicle headed toward disaster. Ever been up in the cab of a running locomotive? Looks cool from the ground, but it's actually boring as heck if you're just sitting there with no job to do. The engineer has to balance power and brake applications with the train forces, the conductor is on the radio with dispatch/other trains and has paperwork for the consist. I was in track maintenance, and I was riding along to give the track a visual inspection without tying up the tracks with a work truck. The track was straight, the scenery dull, and music radios are forbidden - I kept catching myself falling asleep because it was so loving boring. This is going to be _every car_ with "full self-driving" enabled. NoWake fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 22:05
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One of the ironies of automation has always been that you tend to automate the easier stuff first, so when you fall into dangerous situations, you're usually thrown there on short notice, with an eroded skillset you haven't had to practice in a while because it is only useful in rare emergencies. Another one is that if you require constant monitoring of your process (especially if it's a 1:1 case like a car with a passenger in it, rather than an industrial process where one person may monitor dozens of automatons), then you have not automated that much since you still need to be around with full attention for the task to be done. In such cases, it's often better to automate some repetitive actions that could take focus away rather than automating 90% of the stuff but still requiring full attention.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:14
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Sagebrush posted:lol no. americans are such lovely drivers that you have to have reminder signs like that all over the place. i see them at many intersections in san francisco. Keep in mind though there are lovely drivers, then there's San Francisco drivers. It's the one place on Earth I regret driving in because of the constant honking, terrible driving, rude assholes, ultra congestion, see I'm getting pissed just thinking about it. Anyway, I got behind someone holding a red flag on with a big rear end C-clamp today. I'm not sure if it's technically illegal, but the way teh thing was bouncing up and down from its own weight had me backing off quite a bit.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:20
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DarkDobe posted:Yeah I want to know what exactly is being implied too. Our licensing is done by individual state, not a unified system. poo poo is all over the place. A situation could be meant to work out one way some place and a different way elsewhere. Certain things like right on red after stop wouldn't even occur to some Americans. Basic stuff is the same, but people latch a bunch of weird poo poo onto it. What I see here more than all-red-on-fault is one street will be flashing red (proceed after stop) and the cross-street will be flashing yellow (proceed if clear). The way our (US) crap works is that the law states who you should yield to, not when you should go. Is that the same in Canada? Also, is there something special about Quebec drivers? Fuckers drive like rear end down here.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:33
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Synthbuttrange posted:https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20190908X51027 I'm still getting over the idea of "gender reveal parties". Like, babies don't have gender, and while it's pretty normal and OK to gender them according to the sex they're assigned at birth as they grow up, it seems weird to make a huge thing about it. I'd also literally never heard of them until a few months ago, and never outside the context of the USA. Are they intentional anti-LGBTQ propaganda, or just part of general social intolerance? Either way, lol at it causing plane crashes.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:56
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madeintaipei posted:Certain things like right on red after stop wouldn't even occur to some Americans.  quote:The way our (US) crap works is that the law states who you should yield to, not when you should go. Is that the same in Canada? Canada's rules are also along the lines of 'this is who you yield to', at least here in Alberta (our provinces all license separately, like the states). The only things that stand out to me about Quebec is that they usually don't do right-on-red at all. Also the average driver seems less likely to yield to pedestrians but that feels like a general east coast thing.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:59
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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DarkDobe posted:Yeah I want to know what exactly is being implied too. Nobody does it. The people on the main road usually just whiz by, and the smaller roads need to merge in and pray to their respective gods. If it's an intersection of two main roads, you better pray that someone gets there soon to start directing traffic. During Sandy tons of PSAs went out about what to do and everyone ignored it. I followed the law for about 10 minutes but I got tired of nearly getting rear ended or tboned every time I reached a light
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Nov 8, 2019 22:59
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Actually, I now realize any yield rules discussion with anyone living in North America falls apart real quick since you guys don't have automatic priority to the right yielding in place which is like the backbone of intersections here. It's a rule that's one of the most universal and basic things you learn about driving and one that is completely impossible to forget about since it's default behavior in the absence of any other signs or context clues.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:10
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Tyson Tomko posted:Anyway, I got behind someone holding a red flag on with a big rear end C-clamp today. I'm not sure if it's technically illegal,
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Nov 8, 2019 23:14
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Ruflux posted:Actually, I now realize any yield rules discussion with anyone living in North America falls apart real quick since you guys don't have automatic priority to the right yielding in place which is like the backbone of intersections here. It's a rule that's one of the most universal and basic things you learn about driving and one that is completely impossible to forget about since it's default behavior in the absence of any other signs or context clues. We do Respecting it is another story
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Nov 8, 2019 23:24
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Powershift posted:Never trust a fart, earth edition. i know that bridge and have no idea how that could happen unless dude was trying to make a u-turn
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Nov 8, 2019 23:25
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BgRdMchne posted:i know that bridge and have no idea how that could happen unless dude was trying to make a u-turn What does the approach look like? Caught the cab corner on the attic, figured he could get the whole truck out by sticking bits of it at a time under the high point, didn't ask for help, topped the truck, got fired. Back driving for another company Monday morning.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:36
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Ruflux posted:Actually, I now realize any yield rules discussion with anyone living in North America falls apart real quick since you guys don't have automatic priority to the right yielding in place which is like the backbone of intersections here. It's a rule that's one of the most universal and basic things you learn about driving and one that is completely impossible to forget about since it's default behavior in the absence of any other signs or context clues. We do have yielding to the right in the US. If two cars get to the intersection at the same time, the person furthest to the right goes first. The problem is when people make up their own rules like "going straight, you can wait" or dumb poo poo like that, or people who insist on giving up their turn to let other people go. Or the people who get to the intersection, jab their brakes to slow down more than they were going and then roll through. That last one really pisses me off. When I get to an intersection, fully stop, and start going. Then someone who was 10 feet behind me is already going too. You didn't stop, rear end in a top hat. If driving in the US was seen more as a privilege rather than as a right or essential freedom, then more people would follow the rules.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:38
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DarkDobe posted:Yeah I want to know what exactly is being implied too. If the traffic lights don't work, you follow the normal signs which are there in case of a blackout? It practically never is a four way stop, someone has to yield by default if traffic lights are there. Well at least round these parts 
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Nov 8, 2019 23:46
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Cojawfee posted:If driving in the US was seen more as a privilege rather than as a right or essential freedom, then more people would follow the rules. Have you considered that maybe they’re not driving, they’re traveling?
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Nov 8, 2019 23:50
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Nenonen posted:If the traffic lights don't work, you follow the normal signs which are there in case of a blackout? It practically never is a four way stop, someone has to yield by default if traffic lights are there. Well at least round these parts You are stealing JerryCotton's line dammit! I have Jerry on ignore, just so I can guess the Finnish-ism he drops before I read it. Kinda annoying clicking through every post, but there are more hits than misses.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:51
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Lead out in cuffs posted:I'm still getting over the idea of "gender reveal parties". Like, babies don't have gender, and while it's pretty normal and OK to gender them according to the sex they're assigned at birth as they grow up, it seems weird to make a huge thing about it. gender reveal parties are, to my knowledge, exclusively a flyover state thing, and they probably exist because life in those states is just an endless chain of backbreaking labor and opioids until you die and the child-rearing process is the one thing that breaks it up, so they want to make as many parties out of it as they can. wedding shower - bachelor/ette party - wedding - vow renewals - baby shower - gender reveal party - baby's birth - baby's first birthday - etc etc. the anti-LGBTQ aspect of it is just a bonus for the more chudly types. in any case, the really important part of that accident report is that the Air Tractor is a fairly cramped single-seat airplane but two people were involved in the crash, which means the pilot had someone riding on his lap. 
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Nov 9, 2019 00:13
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madeintaipei posted:You are stealing JerryCotton's line dammit! "Kinda annoying, guessable" is the best we can strive to be
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Nov 9, 2019 00:15
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Phanatic posted:And that's what everyone is going to do, so the whole model where "if the car suddenly doesn't know what to do it will alert the human who will take the wheel" is fundamentally broken. Ah but you see "driver takes the wheel in an unexpected event" is written policy therefore it's entirely the driver's fault for not adhering to this policy. Policy is neutral and blameless, and not the result of decisions by people.
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Nov 9, 2019 00:27
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MononcQc posted:One of the ironies of automation has always been that you tend to automate the easier stuff first, so when you fall into dangerous situations, you're usually thrown there on short notice, with an eroded skillset you haven't had to practice in a while because it is only useful in rare emergencies. A lot of pilots these days as soon as they get a job flying anything with an autopilot basically end up not really doing much and flying between gear up and crossing the fence. This has lead to a huge reduction in pilot skill which has lead to some accidents due to the atrophy of basic aviation skills. Some people in the industry are calling for letting the pilots fly the loving airplane more but companies are resistant because every mile flown under autopilot is just a hair cheaper.
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Nov 9, 2019 00:29
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Are they intentional anti-LGBTQ propaganda, or just part of general social intolerance? Neither? If you have a baby everybody asks "is it a boy or a girl?" If you're obviously pregnant many people will ask "do you know if it's a boy or a girl?" Because, you know, they want to seem politely interested but there isn't actually much to say about a fetus or newborn. It's just a question people ask. Like asking a little kid how old they are or what grade they are in. It doesn't actually matter to random adults whether the kid is 5 or 7, it's just what you ask. It's not intended as intolerance or propaganda. I suppose it would be more accurate to call them Sex Reveal Parties, but that could be confusing in other ways.
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Nov 9, 2019 00:44
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Phanatic posted:And that's what everyone is going to do, so the whole model where "if the car suddenly doesn't know what to do it will alert the human who will take the wheel" is fundamentally broken. Waymo actually decided years ago that they are not going to field anything that drives almost completely autonomously but still requires a human to be ready to intervene at any second, because nobody's going to be vigilant enough to do that if the car does 99% of the driving by itself.
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Nov 9, 2019 01:09
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Nenonen posted:"Kinda annoying, guessable" is the best we can strive to be  Shine on y'all crazy diamonds.
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Nov 9, 2019 01:13
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MononcQc posted:One of the ironies of automation has always been that you tend to automate the easier stuff first, so when you fall into dangerous situations, you're usually thrown there on short notice, with an eroded skillset you haven't had to practice in a while because it is only useful in rare emergencies. I heard one issue is for when cars get almost good enough and human intervention would actually be worse than having the car do it. (not that we are there yet) Kinda like the uncanny valley of autonomy.
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Nov 9, 2019 01:35
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Ruflux posted:Actually, I now realize any yield rules discussion with anyone living in North America falls apart real quick since you guys don't have automatic priority to the right yielding in place which is like the backbone of intersections here. It's a rule that's one of the most universal and basic things you learn about driving and one that is completely impossible to forget about since it's default behavior in the absence of any other signs or context clues. Uncontrolled intersections are almost unspeakably rare in the US, even one lane dirt fire roads have stop signs.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:05
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quote != edit
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Nov 9, 2019 02:06
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Phanatic posted:https://twitter.com/stephentyrone/status/1192053227061207040 I'm the AI designed to make about 7 attempts to categorize an object I'm approaching within 5 seconds, but never make the determination that I'm still approaching a potential obstacle and should make attempts to not interface with it.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:28
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shame on an IGA posted:Uncontrolled intersections are almost unspeakably rare in the US, even one lane dirt fire roads have stop signs. Uncontrolled intersections are everywhere even in the U.S.. It’s just that they only exist at the end of things called “driveways”.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:55
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cyberbug posted:
You could probably do it with a good bridge team but you'd need 2 to 3 trained guys at all times, so like 6 people in the car.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:49
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Budgie posted:
LifeSunDeath posted:OH HELL NAW Probably should have used a scaffold, but then again this tweeted image from the same event probably explains why they didn't... https://twitter.com/corstclimaction/status/1191454874501824512 
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Nov 9, 2019 05:45
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Platystemon posted:Congratulations; it’s a range safety officer. Did that kid say shut the gently caress up bitch? Lmao parents today!
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Nov 9, 2019 06:00
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madeintaipei posted:What does the approach look like?    First image is the original angle as the photo. One way northbound Second image is in the direction the truck is facing Third is a detail It looks like he went over the curb to the right of the reflector there. BgRdMchne fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 07:10
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Gonna crosspost this one here because maybe—maybe—someone will have to deal with this eventually.
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Nov 9, 2019 07:29
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