CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Postess with the Mostest posted:

Niki Ashton was like two more pages down.

From this I surmise that 7% of Canadians don't know Sikh men wear turbans.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:22

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 00:28

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

That's a cynical view of voters. It's just as accurate to say that the populist 'change' candidate keeps winning, especially when they're squaring off against living embodiments of political careerism.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:29

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Hahaha, like 85% of Canadians would actually be willing to vote for an Indigenous person if confronted with the possibility.

It is to laugh.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:31

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

PT6A posted:

Hahaha, like 85% of Canadians would actually be willing to vote for an Indigenous person if confronted with the possibility.

You'd just have to pick a candidate with the right kind of narrative. You certainly wouldn't want to go with the scrappy tough guy from an indigenous community.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:36

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

flakeloaf posted:

You'd just have to pick a candidate with the right kind of narrative. You certainly wouldn't want to go with the scrappy tough guy from an indigenous community.

That is some Grade A canpoling.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:40

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

I'm going to vote for the Indigenous dude in Manitoba who may or may not have beaten his ex girlfriend

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:45

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

bunnyofdoom posted:

I didn't realize Beyak wrote children's textbooks

Yeah holy loving poo poo this is horrible

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:47

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

bunnyofdoom posted:

I didn't realize Beyak wrote children's textbooks

lmao this rules

# ? Oct 3, 2017 17:53

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

the gently caress

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:16

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

CLAM DOWN posted:

the gently caress

Holy poo poo.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:26

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

James Baud fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 26, 2018

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:30

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

James Baud posted:

It looks like a geography/history book for 7 year old kids. I'm really not seeing a problem with sparing them a 400 page "at gunpoint" derail.

Give me a loving break. Are you saying it's okay to indoctrinate children with an alternate whitewashed version of history? gently caress off.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:31

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

When Chad arrived, he needed his classmates to fear him. Sheldon agreed to punch himself.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:34

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Look, we can lie about it for the sake of expediency. I mean it's just early geography, do we really need to explain three hundred years of genocide?

Sure, there's a reason why these settlements are where they are, but it's probably just easier to say the indigenous folks were really nice and totally weren't using all that land and so happily shared it with the newcomers.

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 3, 2017

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:34

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

canpol greatest hits

a 400 page 'at gunpoint' derail
that 'believe the victim' bullshit

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:35

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

James Baud fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 26, 2018

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:39

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

I'm fine with simplifying history for children but portraying it as being a friendly relationship is wrong.

Think of the indigenous children!

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:40

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

infernal machines posted:

Look, we can lie about it for the sake of expediency. I mean it's just early geography, do we really need to explain three hundred years of genocide?

Sure, there's a reason why these settlements are where they are, but it's probably just easier to say the indigenous folks we're really nice and totally weren't using all that land and so happily shared it with the newcomers.

When the settlers arrived they needed land. They made the indigenous peoples move away and took their land. DONE IN GRADE FIVE WORDS, TWO SENTENCES, AND ISN'T loving COLONIALIST BULLSHIT

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:40

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

James Baud posted:

Well seriously, people in charge of any given human society got that way by not being nice people. News at 11. Let's tell the kids that they're nobodies and always will be while we're at it.

So maybe stop sugarcoating history and history will stop repeating itself.

Besides, all they had to do was phrase it as "were moved" and not "agreed to move" and this would have flown under the radar. It's not hard to be more accurate even at that grade level.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:41

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

just another posted:

So maybe stop sugarcoating history and history will stop repeating itself.

Besides, all they had to do was phrase it as "were moved" and not "agreed to move" and this would have flown under the radar. It's not hard to be more accurate even at that grade level.

Yeah, no one's asking for graphic descriptions. But it really loving hurts reconciliation when we teach our white children that there was no problem all along. That's not how we fix this country.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:42

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Arivia posted:

When the settlers arrived they needed land. They made the indigenous peoples move away and took their land. DONE IN GRADE FIVE WORDS, TWO SENTENCES, AND ISN'T loving COLONIALIST BULLSHIT

This is good. I hope you realize I was being facetious though.

Like, there's a whole lot of very important context about why early European settlements are where they are and that directly involves relations with the indigenous peoples, so if you're teaching geography, even to 12 year-olds, you need to include that to actually be teaching the subject.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:43

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

James Baud posted:

Well seriously, people in charge of any given human society got that way by not being nice people. News at 11. Let's tell the kids that they're nobodies and always will be while we're at it.

gently caress off. You can simplify history for children without whitewashing it. How are you okay with this.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:43

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Europeans took the Natives land by tricking them.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:44

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

I think telling kids that they are nobodies at a young age is a good idea

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:45

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

infernal machines posted:

This is good. I hope you realize I was being facetious though.

I didn't. My apologies, so many bullshit responses in the thread all of a sudden. (Actually it looks like it was just James Baud as usual.) I was surprised you made a post like that and I should have known.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:46

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

littleorv posted:

I think telling kids that they are nobodies at a young age is a good idea

You are not a princess and your only hope for survival is to start working with these idiots around you.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:46

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

CLAM DOWN posted:

Give me a loving break. Are you saying it's okay to indoctrinate children with an alternate whitewashed version of history? gently caress off.

I say go the other direction. They should make it an interactive exercise for grade ones. Place 6 kids all in one hoola hoop and 3 other kids in two hoola hoops each and they have to hang out there for a bit. Give the gang of 6 a bag of marshmallows. Secretly, tell the 6 that the marshmallows are to trade for the 3 kids' hoola hoop space and tell them that you'll give them two full bags and two chocolate bars for each hoola hoop they can trade for. Afterwards, discuss why there is evil inside us all. Repeat with weapons and alcohol as needed. Next lesson, why you'd probably be an auschwitz guard and always question authority figures.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:48

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Postess with the Mostest posted:

I say go the other direction. They should make it an interactive exercise for grade ones. Place 6 kids all in one hoola hoop and 3 other kids in two hoola hoops each and they have to hang out there for a bit. Give the gang of 6 a bag of marshmallows. Secretly, tell the 6 that the marshmallows are to trade for the 3 kids' hoola hoop space and tell them that you'll give them two full bags and two chocolate bars for each hoola hoop they can trade for. Afterwards, discuss why there is evil inside us all. Repeat with weapons and alcohol as needed. Next lesson, why you'd probably be an auschwitz guard and always question authority figures.

In your facetiousness you've created a good lesson plan.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 18:53

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

"When Hitler became Chancellor, he needed to make room in the workforce for good German voters. The jews agreed to take a nice train ride to make room for them. Later, they did some baking."

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:09

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

quote:

A 20-page document obtained by VICE shows the Ontario government's framework to sell legal weed contradicts what its own Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services is saying about enforcement and the black market.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qvjnqx/leaked-document-shows-ontario-government-is-ignoring-its-own-advice-on-weed

quote:

Last month, Ontario revealed that come next year, it will be selling recreational weed through an LCBO-controlled monopoly, with 40 retail stores to start, followed by 80 in 2019 and 150 by 2020. During the announcement, Attorney General Yasir Naqvi said illegal pot dispensaries should consider themselves "on notice" and will be shut down through a proactive enforcement strategy. Ontario also opted to ban all public consumption of cannabis except at private residences and to push the legal age for purchasing and consuming weed up to 19, even though the federal government has set the legal age at 18.

However, VICE has obtained an internal briefing titled "Impacts of Cannabis Legalization on Police" that was presented by the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services (MCSCS) to the Future of Policing Advisory Committee on August 2, 2017. The MCSCS has confirmed the report's authenticity. Many of its points contradict both the policies laid out by Ontario and the federal government.

Dispensaries/organized crime

For all the tough talk from the province, the MCSCS report quite bluntly states "the illegal market will not disappear once cannabis is legalized (e.g. Illegal dispensaries will continue to operate)." In Toronto, the province has said there are 60-80 currently in operation. Many have pointed out that a mere 40 government stores to service a population of 13.6 million is unlikely to make a dent in the black market. It seems the government agrees.

Criminal justice system

One of the federal government's key promises has been to ease the burden of prohibition on the justice system. The federal Liberals' website states that "arresting and prosecuting these offenses is expensive for our criminal justice system" and that prohibition "traps too many Canadians in the criminal justice system for minor, non-violent offenses." However, the MCSCS document clearly says, there's an "anticipated increase in enforcement capacity pressures due to cannabis legalization." This is hardly a surprise, considering the federal government has already promised $274 million for policing and border enforcement related to cannabis legalization, but nonetheless it shows the province is fully aware that legalization won't clear up the backlog in criminal justice system.

Minimum age

Ontario has chosen 19 as the minimum age for purchasing and consuming weed and is also prohibiting people under the age of 19 from possessing any weed, even though the federal weed framework says youth could possess up to five grams without being charged with any crime. According to the MCSCS report there are several issues with Ontario's chosen route. It could force youth under 19 to continue to rely on the black market, and it could result in "border hopping" if the minimum ages differ between provinces. To that end, Quebec last week announced that it will go with 18 as the legal age for buying and consuming weed. The report also said creating a separate provincial offence for youth caught with weed will result in "increasing the complexity in enforcing for police officers." In other words, it will create a further burden on the criminal justice system.

Difficulties in enforcement

The MCSCS briefing outlined a number of aspects of legalization that will be tough for cops to enforce including:

Enforcing both the medical cannabis and recreational cannabis regimes. (No specifics were given, however, one can guess there will be challenges in differentiating between the two when it comes to things like possession, growing, and public consumption.)

Issues with "trying to accurately measure 30 grams of dried cannabis or equivalent in public." Thirty grams of possession in public is the legal limit set out by the feds.

"Deciphering when social sharing of cannabis does not constitute the facilitation of a drug transaction." So, how are cops going to distinguish between people sharing drugs versus selling them to each other?

Enforcing the ban on public consumption and impairment "given the different mediums of cannabis that can be consumed (e.g. edibles)." It's pretty easy to eat a gummy bear without attracting the cops' attention.

Public consumption

While the Ontario government has said public consumption will be banned everywhere but at private residences�weed lounges will also be barred�the MCSCS briefing suggests that's not a good idea. "Banning cannabis consumption in public could increase the risk of users turning to other mediums (e.g. edibles) which could lead to stronger impairment/effects," it says.

Growing

Under the federal plan, Canadians outside the medical regime will be allowed to grow four plants at home. Possession of more than than four harvesting plants could result in 14 years of jail. The MCSCS report said these plants could be "an additional source for organized crime." It also said it will be difficult to enforce the home grow ops because most police services "lack capacity for the anticipated magnitude of increased enforcement" and because you can't go into people's homes without search warrants. Another issue, the report says, is people could be criminalized for small amounts of overproduction.

Driving impairment

The report says drug screeners only test for presence of the drug, not impairment.

VICE reached out to Ontario's Ministry of the Attorney General for an interview, citing contradictions between this report and Ontario's legalization rollout plan. In response, Emilie Smith, a spokeswoman for the MAG sent a statement saying the ministry established a "dedicated secretariat" to coordinate the province's weed rollout that draws from the skills of 16 ministries, including the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

"The Ministry of the Attorney General developed, in close collaboration with partner ministries, a safe and sensible approach that focuses on the promotion of public health and safety, including road safety, the protection of young people, prevention and harm reduction," the statement said.

The MAG declined to take specific questions on this document.

Canada is slated to legalize weed by next July.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:12

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

just another posted:

In your facetiousness you've created a good lesson plan.

It was only half facetious. Find me 8 more local toddlers and we can give it a shot.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:20

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Dude, I am not helping you round up toddlers. Stop asking.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:22

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

All I've read about is Ontario's legalization plans. What are the other provinces planning?

Particularly BC.

... No reason.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:35

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

They're doing consultations right now but it sounds like they want to legalize the dispensaries that are already there, as long as municipal authorities are cool with them

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:38

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

The Manitoba PCs plan on building 1 weed store in Churchill or something

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:46

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

Do you guys remember the part in history where we have a productive economic trade with indigenous people and split the massive tracts of land we co-inhabit fairly and equally?

# ? Oct 3, 2017 19:50

just another: Oct 16, 2009; these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

One sad thing about the history of Canadian colonization is that there actually were periods where we did have mutually-productive trading relations with a number of First Nations. We just bulldozed over those relationships as soon as it became more profitable to do that rather than to trade.

It's oversimplifying things but I think in a lot of cases, the real issues began with the arrival of settlers and not the preceding traders.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:04

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Risky Bisquick posted:

Europeans took the Natives land by tricking them.

This is a weird narrative because it basically says that Europeans are smarter or more cunning. Evil perhaps, but definitely smarter.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:30

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Jordan7hm posted:

This is a weird narrative because it basically says that Europeans are smarter or more cunning. Evil perhaps, but definitely smarter.

Yet here we are

# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:32

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 00:28

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

James Baud has bad opinions and is dumb, news at 11.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 20:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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