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Santa's toy factory takes a lot of electricity, especially when the night is 23 hours long
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Oct 3, 2018 02:52
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Zero VGS posted:The Department of Energy certainly isn't helping, I just noticed this blurb on their website: Your link provides helpful spectrum graphs that supports what the DOE page says For the record, all of my bulbs are LED, but there's nothing wrong with that DOE link
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Oct 3, 2018 03:00
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Zero VGS posted:However, this took something like a year and a half of calls and letters to get everything carried out.If the DoE moved at more than a snails pace and advertised this better, I'm sure many more people would spring for it. Putting weatherization people to work and saving people a ton of money that they can put into the economy elsewhere seems like it should get bipartisan initiative, but what do I know. If it's at all subsidised then I think you found your answer. Remember the DoE are probably more like the official energy industry lobby than an actual department so their interest will be in making energy sales not freeing up money for others.
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Oct 3, 2018 03:01
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Zero VGS posted:
This is an absurd complaint. For one thing, just having had a CRT in 2014 didn't mean it was the primary set watched, by 2015 81% of households had at least one HDTV set and households with any HDTVs usually used them for the primary set. You had people with stuff like those little 9 inch sets sitting in a kitchen counter or something to watch the morning news while making breakfast, even when you had a nice 40 inch set up in the living room. Secondly, no, a $50 Walmart LCD TV, which wasn't even really a thing you could get back in 2014, and it would take much more than 8 months to "pay for itself" in a lot of places. It's rare for an average 80s/90s/2000s CRT TV to use more than 140 watts while on, and if you're watching 5 hours of tv on it everyday you're still barely touching $30 a year for power used with average electricity rates, while your LCD replacement likely uses ~$10 a year in power on its own. "$50" TV set aint't paying for itself until like 2.5 years after purchase with favorable conditions. I really have to wonder what size of CRT/local power cost/time watching combination you had in mind for paying off in 8 months. And incidentally, when consulting the 2014 Wal-Mart black friday catalogs, I see the cheapest TV they advertised was a $99 32 inch set, temporarily $75 off... And even today, the cheapest TV they sell is a $64 7 inch portable TV set which is hardly a reasonable request to replace any common CRT. You've gotta shell out $70 to get a 19 inch set almost big enough for seeing across a living room.
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Oct 3, 2018 04:00
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fishmech posted:I really have to wonder what size of CRT/local power cost/time watching combination you had in mind for paying off in 8 months. And incidentally, when consulting the 2014 Wal-Mart black friday catalogs, I see the cheapest TV they advertised was a $99 32 inch set, temporarily $75 off... And even today, the cheapest TV they sell is a $64 7 inch portable TV set which is hardly a reasonable request to replace any common CRT. You've gotta shell out $70 to get a 19 inch set almost big enough for seeing across a living room. I know plenty of people (mostly old folks) with +40 inch CRTs, rear projection CRT, or hand-me-down plasma, any of which can hit 200 watts. 200 watts at 8 hours a day at national average (in 2014 was nearly $0.13/kwh) hits $49.92 in 8 months. I did forget to factor that the LCD TV still uses power, but I went to public school, so chill.
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Oct 3, 2018 05:57
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When you get into 40 inch CRT sets or early plasma or the huge rear projectors, that was all stuff that was super expensive and really quite new. And on top of that they're really not going to find the cheapest little TV sets on sale a suitable replacement. Suitable replacements mean scenarios of replacing a 200-300 watt set with something that still wants 75-100 watts. And though sure you can get $160 basic 42 inch 1080p hdtvs now that's going to take quite a while to save electric bills to pay for itself versus someone's 40 odd inch full CRT or projector or plasma of the mid 2000s. Plus moving them huge CRT sets is often its own issue, they start topping 300 pounds around 37 inches.
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Oct 3, 2018 06:27
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Zero VGS posted:I know plenty of people (mostly old folks) with +40 inch CRTs, rear projection CRT, or hand-me-down plasma, any of which can hit 200 watts. 200 watts at 8 hours a day at national average (in 2014 was nearly $0.13/kwh) hits $49.92 in 8 months. I did forget to factor that the LCD TV still uses power, but I went to public school, so chill. wasn't the anecdote that it was people living in trailers who would see so much benefit from upgrading? Probably not a lot of trailers with 40 inch CRTs in them, like that wouldn't even fit in most mobile homes lol
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Oct 3, 2018 06:53
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Nebakenezzer posted:I mean, if America has literally lost its ability to construct nuclear power plants, seems like a good time to work on new designs
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Oct 3, 2018 06:58
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Zero VGS posted:Putting weatherization people to work and saving people a ton of money that they can put into the economy elsewhere seems like it should get bipartisan initiative, but what do I know.
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Oct 3, 2018 08:16
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QuarkJets posted:wasn't the anecdote that it was people living in trailers who would see so much benefit from upgrading? Probably not a lot of trailers with 40 inch CRTs in them, like that wouldn't even fit in most mobile homes lol Eh my main gist is people in trailers have less energy efficient stuff, if the TV thing doesn't hold accurate then we can go to old shitbox PCs, shitbox cars (that they have to drive much farther to work), air conditioners, so on. Sorry if my particular anecdote falls apart. This writer says it better than me: https://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2018/02/16/energy-poverty-and-the-painful-truth-about-energy-efficiency-programs-impact-on-the-poor/ This other article brings up an excellent point that I'm all too familiar with; landlords like myself have no incentive to make our rentals more efficient, because we're not the ones paying the utility bills: http://www.reimaginerpe.org/node/965 The other thing that's true is that rebates on energy efficient things (solar panels, energy efficient appliances, electric cars) are good for spurring early adopters to try them out, but at the same time poor people can't afford any of that those things in the first place, yet pay taxes to subsidize the rebates that only the middle and upper class can take advantage of.
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Oct 3, 2018 09:26
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oh man if only there was a way to make middle and upper class people pay a larger percentage of their income
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Oct 3, 2018 10:42
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hmmm so you say poor people have poor quality housing and landlords don't care huh... I wonder if there are any historical solutions to this we can learn from
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Oct 3, 2018 13:58
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Tasmantor posted:If it's at all subsidised then I think you found your answer. Remember the DoE are probably more like the official energy industry lobby than an actual department so their interest will be in making energy sales not freeing up money for others. The DoE makes and maintains the nuclear arsenal. That is their primary function. Governor Good Hair is just faffing about with the secondary functions.
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Oct 3, 2018 14:18
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karthun posted:Here is an imgur link We use about 2800 kwh a year. 220kwh in Sept. When I replace the 40mpg 2000 Toy-Auto with an EV, I'm sure that will go up.
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Oct 3, 2018 17:26
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I wanted to post some charts, so here are some charts: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-numbers-are-in-and-evs-are-cleaner-than-ever quote:The emissions estimates presented above compare the use of an EV compared to using a gasoline vehicle. However, there are also emissions associated with the production of these cars, and in general making EVs produces more emissions than a comparable gasoline car. We studied this issue in our “Cleaner Cars From Cradle to Grave” report in 2015 and found that the extra emissions from making an 80-mile range EV (compared to a similar gasoline car) are about 15% higher. However, this extra emissions ‘debt’ is quickly recovered by the savings that accrue while using the electric vehicle.  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=10271 quote:For decades, space heating and cooling (space conditioning) accounted for more than half of all residential energy consumption. Estimates from the most recent Residential Energy Consumption Survey (RECS), collected in 2010 and 2011 and released in 2011 and 2012, show that 48% of energy consumption in U.S. homes in 2009 was for heating and cooling, down from 58% in 1993. Factors underpinning this trend are increased adoption of more efficient equipment, better insulation, more efficient windows, and population shifts to warmer climates. The shift in how energy is consumed in homes has occurred even as per-household energy consumption has steadily declined.  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36692 quote:Air-conditioning equipment is used in 87% of homes in the United States and, according to the latest EIA Residential Energy Consumption Survey (RECS), home air-conditioning costs averaged $265 in 2015, or 12% of total home energy expenditures. Air-conditioning costs ranged from an average of $525 in the hot-humid region in the Southeast to about $60 in the temperate marine region along the West Coast. The more moderate mixed-humid region, where home air-conditioning costs averaged $262, was closest to the national average.  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=36112 quote:Existing U.S. nuclear power generating plants operate under increasingly competitive market conditions brought on by relatively low natural gas prices, increasing electricity generation from renewable energy sources, and limited growth in electric power demand. Several sensitivity cases prepared for EIA’s Annual Energy Outlook 2018 (AEO2018) show the potential effects on the U.S. nuclear power fleet of different assumptions for natural gas prices, potential carbon policies, and nuclear power plant operating costs.
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Oct 3, 2018 17:58
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VideoGameVet posted:We use about 2800 kwh a year. 220kwh in Sept. I got an EV in 2014 (used 2013 electric smart car convertible on eBay for $9000) and I don't think any other purchase has saved me so much money. There's a free charger a block from my house so in the almost 5 years I've had it I've paid for windshield wiper fluid and that's absolutely it. According to that chart I'm in one of the most eco-friendly areas to use it (local power is mostly natural-gas and renewables). But I don't drive it for self-validation as much as it enables me to be even more of a massive cheapskate. Every other car I've had has been an accursed money pit, and unlike the rest of them I can jump into this in the morning when it's -10 Fahrenheit out, hit the ignition and know the wheels are going to turn, I don't have to pray to God the engine will start. I can sit in stop and go traffic in complete silence and drop the top in the summer. I can't wait until Tesla Model 3's have been out for a few more years and the average Joe can start picking them up used. People can't realize how many intangible perks there are to EVs until they've spent some time with one, and I think the Model 3 will be turning point for word of mouth and affordability. That is if Moron Musk can stop committing Twittercide for 5 loving seconds.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:29
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Lotta EVs hitting the market over the next couple of years. Prices are bound to come down some. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:41
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Baronjutter posted:Well that's embarrassing being #1, but at least our top two form of energy are hydro and nuclear with coal and gas a distant 10% each. I actually think we used to be #1 by a fair margin so getting better AC in Canada varies. My personal experience is that it is universal in Southern Ontario, is something nice but not strictly necessary in Saskatchewan, and is necessary in the swamp of New Brunswick but often missing due to atavistic cheapness/poverty. In Newfoundland, it's a want rather than a need.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:49
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Zero VGS posted:Eh my main gist is people in trailers have less energy efficient stuff, if the TV thing doesn't hold accurate then we can go to old shitbox PCs, shitbox cars (that they have to drive much farther to work), air conditioners, so on. Sorry if my particular anecdote falls apart. Old "shitbox" PCs aren't likely to use much power generally that's the province of specialty enthusisast systems - and since the majority of computers sold since 2005 are laptops and that's also about as far back asystem can be and still get you on facebook, most poor people probably have a relatively low power laptop not a gamer rig. lovely fuel efficiency cars are more a habit of wealthier people in these days eg terrible luxury monster suvs and trucks. Some guy in an old trailer is more likely to run one or two small window ACs rather than a central AC unit that's old and super inefficient. Your whole style of anecdote just doesn't make sense for late 2010s trailer dwellers or other poor people. It's stuff that's like 10+ years out of date for how things shake out. Like hell, programs like cash for clunkers swept away a bunch of crappy mileage vehicles in the course of a few months, ya know?
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Oct 3, 2018 22:09
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the trick for focusing on what matters is: does it physically move something, or does it change the temperature of air or water waxing on about poor peoples tv's is basically on par with crying about welfare queens level of detached from reality nonsense
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Oct 3, 2018 22:30
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but think of all of the huge 40" CRTs in trailers, surely those are a big energy drain!!! *doesn't turn around to see the two old space heaters and window ACs and a 20 year-old fridge*
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Oct 3, 2018 22:39
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I wonder how quickly prices will fall for your average vertical farm project in 10 years. The one in Las Vegas (that supplies all resturants and hotels with sustainable greens) cost $30M for reference.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:40
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I definitely have not ever advised a person complaining about their high bill, on what kind of TV they should buy. I have found quite a few straight electric heat HVAC units on trailers though.  I have seen single-wide trailers hitting 200 kWH/day on days where temps stay below freezing.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:46
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Zero VGS posted:I got an EV in 2014 (used 2013 electric smart car convertible on eBay for $9000) and I don't think any other purchase has saved me so much money. There's a free charger a block from my house so in the almost 5 years I've had it I've paid for windshield wiper fluid and that's absolutely it. According to that chart I'm in one of the most eco-friendly areas to use it (local power is mostly natural-gas and renewables). But I don't drive it for self-validation as much as it enables me to be even more of a massive cheapskate. Every other car I've had has been an accursed money pit, and unlike the rest of them I can jump into this in the morning when it's -10 Fahrenheit out, hit the ignition and know the wheels are going to turn, I don't have to pray to God the engine will start. I can sit in stop and go traffic in complete silence and drop the top in the summer. There's a free-charger at the coffee shop near where I live as well as metered ones at the Amtrak station. I've got 257k miles on the Toy-Auto so eventually, it will need to be replaced. EV makes sense.
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Oct 3, 2018 23:49
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StabbinHobo posted:the trick for focusing on what matters is: does it physically move something, or does it change the temperature of air or water okay, sorry for waxing, let's move on from my goofy derail My job has over 50 65" TVs turned on in the office 24/7, which is probably why I have TV energy waste on the brain. There's no way to automate these fuckers on/off without basically strapping an IR blaster + Raspberry Pi combination to them.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:00
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Zero VGS posted:okay, sorry for waxing, let's move on from my goofy derail Some TVs have serial interfaces for automation if this still concerns you
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Oct 4, 2018 00:10
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Grouchio posted:I wonder how quickly prices will fall for your average vertical farm project in 10 years. The one in Las Vegas (that supplies all resturants and hotels with sustainable greens) cost $30M for reference. It's still going to be a stupid vanity thing rather than viably large portions for a very long time. There's loads of usable farmland out there, and it's all far more sustainable than a system that by its nature is full of artificial inputs.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:18
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angryrobots posted:I definitely have not ever advised a person complaining about their high bill, on what kind of TV they should buy. I live in an apartment in Minneapolis, heated with baseboard heat. My electric usage in Jan 2018 was 249 kWH on 1719 heating degree days.
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Oct 4, 2018 00:25
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fishmech posted:It's still going to be a stupid vanity thing rather than viably large portions for a very long time. There's loads of usable farmland out there, and it's all far more sustainable than a system that by its nature is full of artificial inputs. Agreed but they look cool as heck
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Oct 4, 2018 01:29
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Zero VGS posted:okay, sorry for waxing, let's move on from my goofy derail do you drive to and from this job? if so, your car is worse than all those tv's running 24/7 combined. you're projecting.
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Oct 4, 2018 01:52
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StabbinHobo posted:do you drive to and from this job? if so, your car is worse than all those tv's running 24/7 combined. you're projecting. I actually bike 16 miles to and from work, or take the bus/train if it's raining... to drive my car and park it in Boston would be $40 a day. That's with the employee parking discount. But yeah, I've only put 15000 miles on it, I'm more of a weekend warrior. Technically I am projecting, because we also run two projectors 24/7 at work as well. I made them at least buy laser-lamp projectors since those are easier on the wattage and don't burn out like the bulbs do. Also, no my car is not worse than all the TVs combined even if I did drive. Each day the 50 TVs at 100 watts over 24 hours uses a total of 120kwh. My car battery is only 17kwh, and that gets me 80 miles in the summer, 60 in the winter.
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Oct 4, 2018 09:16
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StabbinHobo posted:the trick for focusing on what matters is: does it physically move something, or does it change the temperature of air or water One big problem is even modern, expensive homes have insanely poo poo insulation because code only requires you put specific materials in, not that they actually be installed effectively. It's better than it used to be by far, but so much worse than it could be with only minor more initial expense. That'd cost the builder a nickel so lol at that happening when you can't even get them to double-switch ceiling fans in the 2010s. I went from a 1970s ranch style to a 2012 generic suburban 2-story (it's poo poo but it's what I could afford) Despite being 35+ years newer and only slightly larger, it costs more to keep cool. No, the old place was not a model of efficiency, it had the cheap single-pane windows, actual gaps where the foundation settled, missing/dry rotted weatherstripping, original attic insulation, etc. At some point I'll have the money to do an IR survey of my place and plug the worst of it, but for a building built in 2010s I shouldn't have to. Multiply this by every lovely subdivision you see springing up in every field everywhere.
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Oct 4, 2018 09:27
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angryrobots posted:I have seen single-wide trailers hitting 200 kWH/day on days where temps stay below freezing. Thats insane. My peak winter day usage was 80kWH and I'm keeping a 90kL lap pool at 30c. I can only assume these trailers are smelting aluminium as a side income.
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Oct 4, 2018 10:38
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You don’t need an IR survey to see where you’re leaking heat, a cheap flir clone will get you most of the way there. And indeed building code matters immensely. In scandigoon land you just can’t build stuff that’s badly insulated anymore. We visited an apartment that was ground floor next to a railway line (like seriously 25 meters away at the most) and you couldn’t hear the freight trains above quiet conversation sound level. In -20c storms you can barely feel the heat from the radiators when you touch them.
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Oct 4, 2018 11:30
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Capt.Whorebags posted:Thats insane. My peak winter day usage was 80kWH and I'm keeping a 90kL lap pool at 30c. Bitcoins
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Oct 11, 2018 00:13
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This is a pretty cool interactive map of the cheapest source of new build electricity by county in the US: http://calculators.energy.utexas.edu/lcoe_map/#/county/tech quote:This map shows an estimate of the cheapest electricity generation technology in every county in the U.S. using the assumptions in Rhodes et al., “A geographically resolved method to estimate levelized power plant costs with environmental externalities.” Its pretty cool that you can turn a carbon tax on and off, etc.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:39
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That’s a neat tool, thanks for posting. Doesn’t take a very high carbon tax to make PV and wind the price winner in 90% of the country
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Oct 16, 2018 20:04
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Very cool. It'd be even cooler if they could incorporate a variable electricity price based on the time of day. Here in CA, the spot power price swings between $40/MWh and $150/MWh every day with some days seeing even larger variability.
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Oct 16, 2018 20:45
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I haven't really done any reading on vertical farms in a few years but everything I read about them made them out as solar-road level PR stunt wastefulness. Has anything changed or is it still a pipe dream that only seems reasonable to city folk who have no idea the scale of actual agriculture?
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Oct 16, 2018 20:55
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They're vanity projects that are super cool
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Oct 16, 2018 20:59
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