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Flyerant posted:Hey, I'm having to focus on prose. Got several personal rejections from querying which all point to the same thing, query is great, concept is interseting, but the prose if my first pages isn't good enough. Also get a few comments from Thunderdome round the same thing. If you're working on it then there's nothing else you need to do. Don't listen to advice. And definitely don't listen to people telling you what to do (yes, I see the contradiction in this. That's the point.) Talk about what you're doing with with your writing, talk to people about what they're doing with their writing. Talk about what people have written. Advice is useless, though. You've just got to read what you've written, talk to and listen to people talking about anything at all, especially how people connect to and relate to each other and the world. People are the essence of the writing. Take everything in in whatever way it comes, let it stew, then write what and how you want. Do it enough times and you'll be happy, for a while, with what you produce. You might even be excited about it and enjoy it. Which is a terrifyingly wonderful way to be. You're on your own. In the end it's your writing, no-one else's. It's up to you to be happy with it. And honest enough to know when you're fooling yourself. Wungus posted:I try and do this with everything honestly. In my current book I'm trying to do more scene setting, as my instinct is to have narrators who don't pay a lot of attention to their surroundings, which would be fine if I was doing it on purpose, but I feel like I'm being lazy more often than not and I want to fix that. A character can not pay attention, but as a writer I want to be conscious about that and use their lack of attention for a point. Not just have them enter a <blank> room and then later, leave. Yeah, 100%. I start everything I write with severity knowing there's something in my own writing, not necessarily in the subject of the story but in my capabilities, that I especially want to address. Usually once I'm a bit into the writing that I've found enough of a rhythm it fades away and I have to remind myself of what the "developmental" purpose was. I'm not too sure about the "surroundings." Maybe it is a flaw in my writing, but it might not be one I see now. In what I'm currently writing a lot of it is filling in details of the society, and exploring the society. I'd like to think my lack of describing the immediate space in too much detail, where the characters are extremely fleshed and the society being revealed is the thrust, demands a gap in the physical reality, beyond the nearby and necessary, that gives the reader their part to play in filling in the particulars, whether actively or naturally out of a purposeful void. This is explicitly a story where the main character is "awakened" to the depths of what the situation is, and a certain amount of emptiness is necessary. Hard to balance without leaving it impoverished. As for "hornier" in a "psychosexual kind of way" I just write characters having fun with other. Not even sexual fun, not purposefully. I'm finding that adult "playfulness," even in a purely innocent way, naturally leads to that kind of sexuality. Which does have a further purpose in that this innocent play is a method of building trust, which is the precursor to intimacy. And once you're at the point of intimacy and trust who knows where you end up?
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May 17, 2024 16:15
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I know for my 2nd draft I'll have to add in more world building and extra details to better move the plot. I haven't explained much on why my kingdom hates Druids, and why they have to be secretive about their practice. My world's economy uses gold and precious items, but the most common gold "coins" people use aren't even metal. All of my magic items and powerful spells have tradeoffs, so nothing's as easy as finding a maguffin to solve every problem - Rose needed the help of some Dryads to cast a magic protective wall, and staring at the bright surge of magic has damaged her eyes for a while. Marsha has a hoodie that lets her see forest spirits, but they don't do anything more than sit around the place. She also has a magic gourd filled with an almost infinite supply of water, but it's swamp slush and it only works 3 times a day. She uses it to put out forgotten campfires and prank people with. Black Fox's hand was cursed to ignite anything he points at, so he wears a special warded glove to keep it (mostly) in check. Mrenda posted:I'm not too sure about the "surroundings." Maybe it is a flaw in my writing, but it might not be one I see now. In what I'm currently writing a lot of it is filling in details of the society, and exploring the society. I'd like to think my lack of describing the immediate space in too much detail, where the characters are extremely fleshed and the society being revealed is the thrust, demands a gap in the physical reality, beyond the nearby and necessary, that gives the reader their part to play in filling in the particulars, whether actively or naturally out of a purposeful void. This is explicitly a story where the main character is "awakened" to the depths of what the situation is, and a certain amount of emptiness is necessary. Hard to balance without leaving it impoverished. Whenever my characters enter a new area, I try to include as much of the other senses that I can. What my characters hear and smell, maybe even taste a sample from some exotic fruit seller. The push and clatter of a crowded street market, all that stuff. Patter/innuendo can be tricky to write. I like to think of how mobsters speak, carrying an ambiguous conversation that has much more serious implications. "I took care of that thing for you," can mean a lot of things depending on who's talking.
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May 17, 2024 17:32
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Wungus posted:I'm also trying to write hornier. Not like, with a bunch of sex scenes, but in a more subtly psychosexual kind of way. It's an area I'm weak in, which is partially why I made this main character a sex worker--to force myself to engage with horniness. I've recommended this book to a few people who've struggled with similar issues, and all of them have said it was just what they needed to get into a more, um, libidinous mindset. It's very lucidly written, and almost a masterclass of using all the senses to put the reader 'there'. https://www.amazon.com/Indecent-Make-Fake-Girl-Hire/dp/1580051693/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
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May 17, 2024 23:54
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Flyerant posted:Hey, I'm having to focus on prose. Got several personal rejections from querying which all point to the same thing, query is great, concept is interseting, but the prose if my first pages isn't good enough. Also get a few comments from Thunderdome round the same thing. The thing that helped me out with my prose a lot was trying to critique other people's writing. I think that's kind of the secret sauce of Thunderdome, because once I'd learned to do that, I could read books with that same critical eye and find bits I particularly liked or bits I didn't. I could even do it to my own writing, and that's when I discovered how important editing is. At least for me. My unedited prose is a mess. The other big thing that helped with that was just reading more, which is like the most generic advice possible, but it's true. You're filling your brain with word-possibilities. They don't even have to be good books, and you don't have to write like they do (although that can be a fun exercise)—you're learning about your own preferences, and that builds confidence in your voice as a writer. Which I think sometimes comes off as an intimidating idea; you're still learning, how are you supposed to know what your voice is? But "finding" it is really just cultivating the things you like and avoiding the pitfalls that come with it.
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May 18, 2024 00:24
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read good lit, if anyone thinks my writing sucks now it was in a much worse state before i starting seriously hitting literature. a good writer is a good reader. how can you take a director seriously if they don't watch plays or movies, let alone quality ones?
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May 18, 2024 00:36
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Mrenda posted:Anyone here working on/paying close attention to/developing something they feel is lacking in their author's arsenal? Isn't that something all authors should be doing all the time? Everyone was weak points, blind spots, and writing flaws which they should consciously try to avoid and fix when they spot them. Mrenda posted:I'm writing a serial now that has no grand purpose other than to tell the story of the main character experiencing a world (The premise is it's the real world, but nice.) It can go on forever in a soap opera way. Is that like a weekly thing on a blog or are you just writing that for your own personal satisfaction? Mrenda posted:However, the other work, a sci-fi, is "about" a lot of different things, and is serving a purpose. And it's really difficult to convince myself that the main character, who's in an extremely unique situation, doesn't feel like everything that happens to them is significant. And it most likely is. I have absolutely no concerns about word-count issues or anything like that, or 'pacing' issues. For now I know what the endpoint is. And the broad strokes of how I get there. But I'm geeing myself up to tell myself such things as, "Nothing happens on the Wednesday or Thursday, skip 'em." It may very well be the case that your main-character is so self-absorbed that everything which happens to them feels significant, but if you want the reader to continue reading and not get bored and wander off, it's advisable to only show things which actually are significant.
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May 18, 2024 16:41
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Mrenda posted:Anyone here working on/paying close attention to/developing something they feel is lacking in their author's arsenal? It might be worth thinking of your character’s story as a journal rather than diary. What I mean (and this distinction might be one I made up) is a journal tends to be a more sporadic account, where a person tends to only write significant observations or events and can often skip days or more at a time, whereas a diary tends to be a day to day record of (usually boring) minutiae. Of course a real life person writing a journal might end up thinking something that happened to them is interesting, when in fact they’d just bore anyone who read it, but the author’s job is to pick and choose through all those hypothetical happenings and cobble a story out of them by picking only the significant/interesting ones. I have on the backburner a similar kinda serial, of my character exploring a new world in a future and keeping a journal about it, and its meandering nature means it doesn’t follow a strict plot. It’s plot structure is like Huckleberry Finn floating down a river and meeting strange new groups of people, and the story arc a metaphorical taking leave on one’s self only to return with what they’ve learned. In this kinda format, it’s helpful to think episodically. If an episode doesn’t have its own little plot, it has to at least have a point. In the kinda epistolary narrative I use, I nail that point by asking myself, “Why is my character telling this story?” And that question has managed to keep everything I write interesting (at least to my beta readers) even if the story veers off to seemingly plotless events like visiting an art exhibition. E. So how I define an “episode” is if I can title a scene card or outline with “The time I…” Like, “The time I went to the art gallery” or “that time I went to the beach.” The same way you might start into a story you’re telling a friend. EE. I should probably show how specific those meta-titles are, cause the specificity is what hints that there’s a story to be mined there. So it’s more like, “That time my boyfriend dragged me to his friend’s art show and all the art was literal trash.” Or “The first time my physiotherapist took me to the beach and it was a wasteland of rocks I couldn’t cross in my wheelchair.” So the question to always ask is “why is this event significant?” If you can’t find that answer, then maybe it is something to skip over. quote:Anyone here working on/paying close attention to/developing something they feel is lacking in their author's arsenal? My next challenge is gonna be trying to improve my first draft process because I have a whole sequel to write for the last novel I finished, and just sitting down and pantsing it like usual, I know I’ll end up stalling out at usual and I wanna waste less time this time around. Now that I’ve managed a daily writing habit for a few months, I feel like I need to do something to keep the momentum, and being better organized might help with that. So, I’m gonna try the outlining method in this book and see how it does me: https://www.amazon.com/Story-Genius-Science-Outlining-Riveting-ebook/dp/B0180T2YZQ It’s got alotta crap in it, but its core idea about finding the why for every scene to keep the story on track has worked so well for later drafts, that maybe figuring that out beforehand will make my first draft process go smoother. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 18, 2024 |
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May 18, 2024 18:29
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Isn't that something all authors should be doing all the time? Everyone was weak points, blind spots, and writing flaws which they should consciously try to avoid and fix when they spot them. Yes. 100%. It's why I asked. It's why I shared what I'm focusing on myself. And it's why people have responded sharing what they're working on. It doesn't even have to be a "flaw" it can just be something you're paying specific attention to in what you're working on. quote:Is that like a weekly thing on a blog or are you just writing that for your own personal satisfaction? Every episode is being published as soon as I'm happy with it. It's quite enjoyable. A very nice way of writing. quote:It may very well be the case that your main-character is so self-absorbed that everything which happens to them feels significant, but if you want the reader to continue reading and not get bored and wander off, it's advisable to only show things which actually are significant. What's "significant?" I don't want you to tell me what I should focus on, please. I'm more questioning the idea of what, as authors, we include in our work. To serve the work. The purpose of the story (there are many.) That's what the author's role is. Stuporstar posted:It might be worth thinking of your character’s story as a journal rather than diary. What I mean (and this distinction might be one I made up) is a journal tends to be a more sporadic account, where a person tends to only write significant observations or events and can often skip days or more at a time, whereas a diary tends to be a day to day record of (usually boring) minutiae. Of course a real life person writing a journal might end up thinking something that happened to them is interesting, when in fact they’d just bore anyone who read it, but the author’s job is to pick and choose through all those hypothetical happenings and cobble a story out of them by picking only the significant/interesting ones. I see where some of the confusion is. The serial is basically a soap opera, there is no need to skip anything. The fluff and minutiae and relationships and conversations are why people are reading it. It's light, and easy. Not quite a popcorn flick, more ice-cream. I think it's good, for what it is. If people stop reading it they stop reading it. I don't mind. I've had a few people respond with delight when I told them it's not following any definite schedule with regards to writing it or publishing new parts to balance out that my intentions at the moment are to continue it forever, basically. The sci-fi is a different work, a novel, following the rough "structure" of a novel (not that there's a definitive structure to a novel.) It's being published episode by episode but it is a defined story that has a purpose and endpoint. It has only included the significant, and is a traditional novel in every way outside of how it's being published, for now. I'm just preparing myself from the transition in the first few days in-story, where the entire experience is new to the character, and almost every moment reveals something and is integral to both the world and what's happening to main character. My post wasn't me asking "How do I do this?" It was saying, "I'm soon going to be doing this and am readying myself for a new way of writing, and the challenges associated with a change in approach. And it's a little bit daunting." It's definitely going to be fun. Life's nothing without a challenge, and that's true for writing, too. Edit: Stuporstar posted:My next challenge is gonna be trying to improve my first draft process because I have a whole sequel to write for the last novel I finished, and just sitting down and pantsing it like usual, I know I’ll end up stalling out at usual and I wanna waste less time this time around. That's actually what's quite fun with how I'm currently publishing. I'm not placing myself under any pressure, or saying I have to do anything according to any schedule. I've been writing long enough to know I'm gonna write for the rest of my life. When I put up any new episode I get readers, but I'm not about maximising readership. This is for me, first and foremost. Readers do matter, and of course I'm concerned with what they think, but my concerns are more important. It is an extremely pleasant way to "work," for me. Mrenda fucked around with this message at 10:05 on May 19, 2024 |
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May 19, 2024 10:02
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Mrenda posted:The sci-fi is a different work, a novel, following the rough "structure" of a novel (not that there's a definitive structure to a novel.) It's being published episode by episode but it is a defined story that has a purpose and endpoint. It has only included the significant, and is a traditional novel in every way outside of how it's being published, for now. I'm just preparing myself from the transition in the first few days in-story, where the entire experience is new to the character, and almost every moment reveals something and is integral to both the world and what's happening to main character. My post wasn't me asking "How do I do this?" It was saying, "I'm soon going to be doing this and am readying myself for a new way of writing, and the challenges associated with a change in approach. And it's a little bit daunting." It's definitely going to be fun. Life's nothing without a challenge, and that's true for writing, too. Ah I get exactly what you mean now. I’m in much the same boat with my serial scifi. I don’t have any time restrictions or any need to make money off it and pretty much know I’m gonna write this series forever and not worry about audience much. Who ever is into it is into it, I’m gonna do what I wanna do with it regardless. But if I’m gonna publish it as a serial, I’m gonna have to learn how to write my story in order, rather than what I’ve been doing for years, which is bouncing around five novels worth of story in random order and not even coming close to having anything in a publishable format. Hence why I’ve been looking through that book to figure out a better method of drafting for myself
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May 19, 2024 14:57
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Stuporstar posted:Ah I get exactly what you mean now. It wasn't really until I started writing this sci-fi I really understood people who jump around in their story. In the personal process way if not publishing. I understood on a rational level, that people simply work in different ways, but it'd never come up as a way of writing for me. I always went from start to end, writing what needed to be written at the time, even if the chronology wasn't a basic A -> B -> C. Since starting this, when I'm not taking a break from writing, my mind is constantly thinking about where the story could go, events that'll happen later in the book, I think I even have quite a strong premise for a sequel. I'm guessing it's partly down to the fact that it's less "real world" than the majority of what I've written. The people and situations are all very human, but the constraints on me aren't as strict. It's allowing me to just put in some bullshit story device that works. Or change part of the society/culture, assuming it fits into the general "rules" I have for it. It's pretty much how I'm generating new scenes at this point. It's gotten to the point where it can take me an age, when I get in a particular mood, to write something, because when I'm editing and revising (which I do as I write, it's how I've always worked. I don't really have "drafts") I'll read a single paragraph, or even sentence, and loads of things will occur to me. Possibilities, story points tangents to go on, scenes for the future, etc. Some people recommend writing them down as they occur to get them out of your mind but I don't think that'll work for me. First off, I'd start to focus on writing the idea clearly, secondly, there's just too many of them. It's more busywork and "organisation" to distract from writing and creating. It's a kind of checking in with your boss at the end of the day, and when asked what work you got done saying, "Absolutely none, but I've revolutionised our filing system!" I also think if I actually committed to writing my thoughts down as ideas I'd develop into what you're doing, which to me sounds like actually writing them, at least an initial draft. I'm not certain but I think that would limit what's happening now, which is having a lot of freedom. If I write something that I want to happen in the future it's committing to it, to a degree. Secondly, your warnings are heeded. You end up with a jumble of scenes, possibly even books, that turning into something that moves in a simple publishable flow (I have no doubt this is invisible to the end reader in the final work) is a considerable level of work. For now I'm happy (well, happy enough, it can be annoying to spend eight hours writing two-thousands words and five of those hours were just imagining what could happen) letting thoughts percolate, and if they're useful in the future they simply are. Some have become dominant enough I am 99% certain they will be written. If I lose some good ideas that I hadn't fully developed, losing them because they weren't written down, I'm happy with that. It's better for my process and there's no shortage of ideas, anyway. As for taking readers as the come, self-publishing (especial as a sort-of-serial,) not being concerned with getting a book deal, etc. It is phenomenally freeing. Some people will always want the "prestige" of book deals, or even just seeing their self-pubbed novel with a cover on Amazon (and they'll want money, naturally.) But just writing for the sake of writing a story and knowing you're getting a few interested readers. gently caress me! It's amazing!
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May 20, 2024 04:11
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Not all writers work in the same way. There's a spectrum between plotters and pantsers. Plotters make an outline of the novel from start to finish before starting to write. Pantsers write by "the seat of their pants" going forward without ever knowing where the story will end up. There's a spectrum of varying degrees between those two ends. You are very clearly much more towards the "pantsers" side. Neither side is precisely right or wrong and both have their advantages and disadvantages. When I write - which unfortunately is very rare these days - my approach is more in the middle. I have a vague idea of where I want the story to go, and I usually get ideas for several key scenes, which I try to write down in as much detail as I have at the time. For me, it doesn't matter that they're out of order or are imperfect. I can rewrite them later, but at least I have the original ideas there to reference. When writing forward, I of course get all kinds of other ideas, some of which change the direction of the story... but more often they usually just end up refining the idea more clearly. Unfortunately, one of my flaws is starting the story too far into it and realizing I need to go back and start the story earlier than I did, and sometimes I have to do that multiple times.
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May 20, 2024 12:58
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I think I'm a bit of both plotter and pantser. I have a skeleton of a plot, but it's muddy in the middle and I'm not sure about the ending yet. I have cool scene ideas for later in the story, it's just figuring out how to get my characters there. Rose and company find a secret travel network used by criminals that cuts through monster territory. Black Fox's cursed hand sparks and triggers the security gates, separating him from Rose and Rathus. A new carriage arrives, and while the manifest says 4 people, BF detects 6.
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May 20, 2024 14:29
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Waffle! posted:I think I'm a bit of both plotter and pantser. I have a skeleton of a plot, but it's muddy in the middle and I'm not sure about the ending yet. I have cool scene ideas for later in the story, it's just figuring out how to get my characters there. Writing out a bad draft is a great way to figure out how to salvage a mushy middle. I'm having the same issue in my first draft that I just finished, but I realized strengthening character relationships and intertwining side character motivations + their individual stories is a great way to get over that. The way I picture it is that you have roots at the start of the story and end of the story stretching towards each other, and a bad middle section will leave them hanging
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May 20, 2024 14:35
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Mrenda posted:It wasn't really until I started writing this sci-fi I really understood people who jump around in their story. In the personal process way if not publishing. I understood on a rational level, that people simply work in different ways, but it'd never come up as a way of writing for me. I always went from start to end, writing what needed to be written at the time, even if the chronology wasn't a basic A -> B -> C. Since starting this, when I'm not taking a break from writing, my mind is constantly thinking about where the story could go, events that'll happen later in the book, I think I even have quite a strong premise for a sequel. I'm guessing it's partly down to the fact that it's less "real world" than the majority of what I've written. The people and situations are all very human, but the constraints on me aren't as strict. It's allowing me to just put in some bullshit story device that works. Or change part of the society/culture, assuming it fits into the general "rules" I have for it. It's pretty much how I'm generating new scenes at this point. I do a lot of the same thing, where I just let ideas sit in the back of my mind, where they float up to the surface and I’ll think of different possibilities. The middles of my novels tend to exist in that state for a long time, while the beginning and ending is kinda pinned down for me. And then I’d write those random scenes when they become so vivid in my mind that I feel compelled to write them. A lot of those scenes don’t make it into the finished draft though. I don’t personally feel committed to anything until I’ve reached my final draft. I used to work in bursts with long fallow periods. I’d be thinking about my stories all the time, but the writing was sporadic. And just sitting still for a while and imagining the story is how my whole series was born. I still do it, like that’s what I meditate on whenever I get time to just chill. I’m really getting into a flow of daily habits though lately, like keeping good habits in eating, sleeping, exercising, etc. And working a daily writing habit into my mornings has helped me finally finish the first prequel novel in my series. Since it’s worked so well, I’m going to try working up the first draft of its sequel this way, seeing what happens if I try writing it from start to finish in order this time. This is a book that inserted itself into the series late because I realized there was a huge character development gap between the first book and next, so it’s a total blank slate. It’s gonna be interesting trying a new method of drafting, just to see if I can write A -> B -> C with only the vaguest idea of where it needs to end (because the next book is a time jump of a century or two, so it doesn’t have to lead directly to the next one). I’m finding with this daily writing habit, I’ve been writing in a similar way to what you described. I start with what I’d written the day before and see what other possibilities my mind came up with over the last 24 hours. Usually I’ve been thinking it over throughout the day and my subconscious has been working on it through the night, so the morning begins with seeing if there’s a better alternative to what I’ve already written. So I do a bit of revising and let that spiral off into the next 500 words. I then stop as soon as the momentum bleeds off and spend the rest of the day doing other things while the story floats around in my brain continuing to develop. The 500 words a day is just an approximate aim though, not a stricture. If I write more, or less, or nothing, that’s ok. It’s just important I spent some time thinking about the story every day to keep the wheels turning. That’s the goal anyway. I’m hoping I can keep it up like I’ve managed to do with my workouts for the past couple years like I’ve never been able to sustain before. This newfound regularity feels kinda amazing (it’s probably my new meds that are actually working lol)
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May 20, 2024 15:25
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Unfortunately, one of my flaws is starting the story too far into it and realizing I need to go back and start the story earlier than I did, and sometimes I have to do that multiple times. Yeah. Trusting the reader is hard. Especially if you want more readers.
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May 20, 2024 15:56
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Mrenda posted:Yeah. Trusting the reader is hard. Especially if you want more readers. From where are you getting the idea that I'm starting earlier because I don't trust the reader? I'm starting the story earlier because I've decided it's important to show the character's default condition and their problem, and establishing the setting, so the reader can better connect to them before leaping into an immediate action. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 21, 2024 |
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May 21, 2024 13:02
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:From where are you getting the idea that I'm starting earlier because I don't trust the reader? Talking more about me and my process than anyone else's. Just my way of writing. My starting point is where I establish the story, for both the reader and me. For me the start is the premise that establishes everything that comes next. I often have an idea of what I want to hit at some point later on, and an ending, sometimes quite firm ideas, but I'm willing to change it if I write something that leans me somewhere else (I've never changed the entire "theme" of a story, just how it's shown.) I have never done a major change on something already down, or added something completely new (sort of.) Most of my edits are to clarify language. Sometimes I might add text that could be considered more putting in extra detail or information, but that's still only to highlight something already there. In a sense I "trust" what I've written. Like I said, I don't really have drafts like other people do. I am constantly re-reading the previous few hundred words, sometimes up to the previous chapter and making language edits as I go, all while thinking what I wrote about. That helps inform what I want to do next as I think about it. Sometimes I'll get in a mind-frame where I'm re-reading something over and over as I can barely go a sentence without considering the implications of what the sentence are. It is both enjoyable and sometimes infuriating.
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May 22, 2024 05:18
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My pardon, I assumed that a post quoting a specific thing I said was in reference to what I said. I also sometimes get ideas for improvements or tweaks to scenes I've already written. It doesn't make sense to me to ignore those ideas and leave them for later, so I've begun keeping a revision journal to keep track of things I've added or removed (or just notes on what TO change) so I can adjust earlier scenes to add foreshadowing or remove now-useless elements. To keep track, I give all my scenes a chapter-scene number code for reference. That allows me to make changes or notes on changes before finishing a draft without needing to go back over the entire draft immediately.
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May 22, 2024 14:01
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I have decided I do not care if I mix my metaphors.
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May 27, 2024 17:20
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Thanks for this thread and all the resources in the post and throughout. I am posting this so I will feel dumb if there are zero follow-ups, thunderdome participation attempts, or discussion on my part. I've now finally decided to write something. I've delayed by taking all the David Farland classes, watching Sanderson's 300 series course lectures at BYU, read fiction for dummies and the snowflake method by Ingermanson, the multitude of arc and structure books by Weiland, and various tutorials on Scrivener. I then spent the following two months world building and outlining with the snowflake method. Time to hate my writing rather than my procrastination.
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May 29, 2024 21:51
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It's fun. Don't worry. People talk about hating their work but I'd hope it's mostly just acting a role. When you read something back you created you'll be in love with it for a while, you'll hate it at other points, and then you'll love and hate who you were when you wrote it. Then you'll accept it was just a part of you. Years later you might read it forgetting you wrote it and think, "Hey! That's pretty cool." It's all part of it. Ultimately it's something you did with honesty and intent and there's rarely anything wrong with that rather there's often many great things about it. Don't sweat it. Work at it and enjoy it.
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May 29, 2024 23:27
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Yeah writing is one of those things where your appreciation for aspects tends to outpace your skill at achieving the things you appreciate. Instead of getting mad at your poo poo for not being as good as you want it to be (which will basically always happen) just try and have fun doing the things you find most interesting to explore, and if you're feeling comfortable, try doing some poo poo you haven't done. You'll "gently caress up" but like... who cares? This isn't an art form with a thriving corporate economy behind it, nor is it an industry where writing quality correlates to success. It's art. If your poo poo doesn't work, it just means you've got an opportunity to get better as an artist and practice better for next time.
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May 30, 2024 14:36
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Ptolemaeus posted:Thanks for this thread and all the resources in the post and throughout. I am posting this so I will feel dumb if there are zero follow-ups, thunderdome participation attempts, or discussion on my part. what are your favorite books?
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May 30, 2024 14:37
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Mrenda posted:It's fun. Don't worry. People talk about hating their work but I'd hope it's mostly just acting a role. When you read something back you created you'll be in love with it for a while, you'll hate it at other points, and then you'll love and hate who you were when you wrote it. Then you'll accept it was just a part of you. Years later you might read it forgetting you wrote it and think, "Hey! That's pretty cool." It's all part of it. Ultimately it's something you did with honesty and intent and there's rarely anything wrong with that rather there's often many great things about it. This Wungus posted:Yeah writing is one of those things where your appreciation for aspects tends to outpace your skill at achieving the things you appreciate. Instead of getting mad at your poo poo for not being as good as you want it to be (which will basically always happen) just try and have fun doing the things you find most interesting to explore, and if you're feeling comfortable, try doing some poo poo you haven't done. You'll "gently caress up" but like... who cares? This isn't an art form with a thriving corporate economy behind it, nor is it an industry where writing quality correlates to success. It's art. If your poo poo doesn't work, it just means you've got an opportunity to get better as an artist and practice better for next time. And This I love every part of the process of writing. Love coming up with new ideas and plot-lines. Love writing a sloppy first draft on a total writing high, not caring how bad it is. Love looking at that poo poo later and coming up with better ideas. Love exploring alternate possibilities, rearranging plot, coming up with new characters. Love deciding whether the character is trying to be truthful about what happened or lying through their teeth. Love rewriting for voice, where I rub out traces of my “default” self and replace with method acting my character. Hell I even love all the tedious copy-editing and poo poo. If you learn to love the process itself, then writing is so rewarding. If you don’t, it’s hell. Ptolemaeus posted:Thanks for this thread and all the resources in the post and throughout. I am posting this so I will feel dumb if there are zero follow-ups, thunderdome participation attempts, or discussion on my part. Like this ^^ I’ve found the people who put themself through hell are the ones too worried about Success: writing a best-seller, becoming a literary great, having their story turned into a movie, etc. And let those end-goal pipe-dreams overshadow their writing with endless worry every step of the way. I see these people fall by the wayside, like people who hate hiking trying to climb up a mountain trail. Try not to psyche yourself out with all that crap and just tell a story. And after you’ve told it, fiddle with it as you learn how to tell it more effectively. If you don’t have a story you wanna tell, all the writing advice in the world isn’t gonna help you Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 15:59 on May 30, 2024 |
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May 30, 2024 15:56
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You can write because you have something to say, not necessarily just to tell a story
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May 30, 2024 16:04
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fridge corn posted:You can write because you have something to say, not necessarily just to tell a story Sure, but having something to say—you might as well write an essay instead if you don’t have a story to tell. Hell, storytelling is a more effective way to get your point across in non-fiction as well
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May 30, 2024 16:07
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Stuporstar posted:I’ve found the people who put themself through hell are the ones too worried about Success: writing a best-seller, becoming a literary great, having their story turned into a movie, etc "Trying to pay the rent because you have no other marketable skills," "dealing with a toxic professional community," "tumblr is sexually harassing you," "your friends resent your success," "your family feels your writing is morally unacceptable," etc There are plenty of reasons writing can suck other than personal ambition
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May 30, 2024 16:08
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General Battuta posted:"Trying to pay the rent because you have no other marketable skills," "dealing with a toxic professional community," "tumblr is sexually harassing you," etc "People run you off the internet because of a bad faith misinterpretation of your title without actually reading the story"
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May 30, 2024 16:08
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fridge corn posted:You can write because you have something to say, not necessarily just to tell a story I mean, I disagree in the sense that even a good essay or work of history is telling some kind of story, even if just personal. And vice versa, a good piece of fiction has something to say. Part of developing as a writer is finding the story in whatever you want to express and bringing it out.
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May 30, 2024 16:09
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i think what fridge corn is getting at is that they shouldnt stress so much about the actual art of storytelling and take it easy, write to say something and let something spiral from there. cuz like Arist above me says many things tell stories innately
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May 30, 2024 16:14
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General Battuta posted:"Trying to pay the rent because you have no other marketable skills," "dealing with a toxic professional community," "tumblr is sexually harassing you," "your friends resent your success," "your family feels your writing is morally unacceptable," etc Ok fiiiine. I was directing my comments at the not-yet published writers who don’t yet have a career on the line
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May 30, 2024 16:14
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cumpantry posted:i think what fridge corn is getting at is that they shouldnt stress so much about the actual art of storytelling and take it easy, write to say something and let something spiral from there. cuz like Arist above me says many things tell stories innately I wasn’t stressing on the art of storytelling though. I was saying you gotta find one to tell if you’re trying to write fiction E. Also to be clear, yeah I was conflating writer with fiction writer. And I’m not conflating story with plot. Story is what the plot is about. You can have a plotless novel, but even that is still telling a story Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 16:23 on May 30, 2024 |
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May 30, 2024 16:17
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cumpantry posted:i think what fridge corn is getting at is that they shouldnt stress so much about the actual art of storytelling and take it easy, write to say something and let something spiral from there. cuz like Arist above me says many things tell stories innately Yeah, this is what I was getting at. You don't need to have a story in mind to start writing. Obviously a work of fiction will carry some sort of narrative, but it doesn't need to be the focal point or the starting point of the work
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May 30, 2024 16:24
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fridge corn posted:Yeah, this is what I was getting at. You don't need to have a story in mind to start writing. Obviously a work of fiction will carry some sort of narrative, but it doesn't need to be the focal point or the starting point of the work I am suggesting trying to find a story to tell is a good place to start if you have no idea where to begin though. And at some point you’ll have to find the one you wanna tell, even if it isn’t your starting point But maybe the issue is we’re kinda taking about the same thing from different angles? Like “having something to say” and “what your story is about” are so close
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May 30, 2024 16:31
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Stuporstar posted:I am suggesting trying to find a story to tell is a good place to start if you have no idea where to begin though. And at some point you’ll have to find the one you wanna tell, even if it isn’t your starting point This is something that's killing writing. This absolute focus on precise meaning, and the author's intent. And that there can be only one meaning. People wanting to write and interpret legal contracts and not some prose.
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May 30, 2024 16:39
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Stuporstar posted:I am suggesting trying to find a story to tell is a good place to start if you have no idea where to begin though. And at some point you’ll have to find the one you wanna tell, even if it isn’t your starting point Yeah we are talking about the same thing and both our angles are very close, but I think the distinction is significant enough to separate them, tho ultimately what I am saying is that both approaches will work
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May 30, 2024 16:40
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Mrenda posted:This is something that's killing writing. This absolute focus on precise meaning, and the author's intent. And that there can be only one meaning. People wanting to write and interpret legal contracts and not some prose. I always run into this when I stumble out of my discord group where we’re all kinda on the same page. For a writer, I sure struggle with clarity. Making alotta sloppy statements that people seem to take issue with because of different mental schema or whatever lol
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May 30, 2024 16:49
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fridge corn posted:Yeah we are talking about the same thing and both our angles are very close, but I think the distinction is significant enough to separate them, tho ultimately what I am saying is that both approaches will work Yeah, I do disagree on this though, cause just “having something to say” may be your starting point, but until you find a story that will illustrate that, how are you gonna write a piece of fiction?
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May 30, 2024 16:59
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Stuporstar posted:I always run into this when I stumble out of my discord group where we’re all kinda on the same page. For a writer, I sure struggle with clarity. Making alotta sloppy statements that people seem to take issue with because of different mental schema or whatever lol I still remember early on in my writing a comment I got. "I got this from it, but I couldn't tell if you intended it." Or that's as best as I remember (precision again.) And it struck me as the most ludicrous statement. You got something from what I wrote, and you got it in a way that wasn't even negative. It was a good thing about the writing. But they had an issue with it because they couldn't understand my specific mindset when I wrote it? As if the purpose of writing isn't to create something for a reader but to transmit your "real" mentality to a reader via words. As it happens I don't believe in "real" mentalities. I don't particularly agree it's possible to have something be so clear to the point it is and never will be a matter of debate. That is the essence of language and communication. There are some who'd argue it's the essence of humanity since we started associating our thoughts with a vast, encompassing language system. I often deliberately write things that are unclear. And I understand they may be taken many ways. That is my intent. The kids today like to call things "liminal." (No. It doesn't simply mean a foggy street or empty mall.) And I often come back and read things I thought were clear and realise after looking at them again they could be result in, with some work, an entire new character, or chapter, or theme in a novel. I've even come up with entire new books this way.
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May 30, 2024 17:17
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Stuporstar posted:Yeah, I do disagree on this though, cause just “having something to say” may be your starting point, but until you find a story that will illustrate that, how are you gonna write a piece of fiction? Maybe you want to talk about beauty, or how poo poo your childhood was, or how stupid society/inept the government is, or perhaps you want to make a particular point regarding gender inequality. You can just start writing things without any particular story or narrative in mind and just see where it goes, allowing something to generate and form itself out of your own writing. I already agreed that a piece of fiction will inevitably have some sort of story in it, but having a story in mind is not a prerequisite to begin writing a work of fiction
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May 30, 2024 17:29
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