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Hikaki posted:Manufacturers must be aware that manual buyers want the biggest engine and the least features. I don’t, and I would conjecture most others don’t either, both now and historically. I bought the top trim version of a manual car. It’s more that “manual base model sedan” buyers are a myth mostly, just extremely vocal online.
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Jul 30, 2020 00:22
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Frond posted:I bought the top trim version of a manual car. This is what I want, and it sucks to me that most of the recent new manual options have only been with the smaller engine option, FWD, and/or unavailable in the top trims.
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Jul 30, 2020 00:50
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Neo_Crimson posted:The Chevy SS failed because GM didn't advertise it and it was like $45K out the door, that's it. I’d throw in that by the time it was landed in the US, it was going to be expensive anyway, so why bother with a stripper model when they might as well sell it fully loaded and at least try and be a bit more competitive at the already high price point. That said, it’s not as if it was loaded with extraneous bullshit anyway.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:20
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Frond posted:It’s more that “manual base model sedan” buyers are a myth mostly, just extremely vocal online. No point here; but a 6th generation Accord LX (98-02) parked next to me at work the other day. It was a beige 4 door with a tan cloth interior and a 5-speed and I was absolutely enamored by it. Someone is going to drive that thing until the end of time.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:34
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Guinness posted:This is what I want, and it sucks to me that most of the recent new manual options have only been with the smaller engine option, FWD, and/or unavailable in the top trims. I blame the boomer-age product managers at the VP/exec level of product management who are the ones signing off on this poo poo. If you think of somebody old enough to be mentally stuck in the 70s/80s/90s, the poverty-spec perception of manual trans buyers makes perfect sense. Bob Lutz really was an exception to the rule, sadly, which is part of why they never made him the CEO of GM. EnergizerFellow fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 03:11
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In Europe, manual buyers are actually doing it because it's cheaper. In the US, manual buyers are doing it because we're broke brained. BMW has the right idea with their "purist" RWD manual M4 vs their all-out AWD automatic M4. I imagine the manual will hold resale value better, but I'll be buying the automatic because faster lap times. And that's the trade-off. Either way, they're both luxury options.
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Jul 30, 2020 03:28
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KillHour posted:In Europe, manual buyers are actually doing it because it's cheaper. In the US, manual buyers are doing it because we're broke brained. BMW has the right idea with their "purist" RWD manual M4 vs their all-out AWD automatic M4. I imagine the manual will hold resale value better, but I'll be buying the automatic because faster lap times. And that's the trade-off. Either way, they're both luxury options. But it's still a M4. The problem we're talking about would be if the only way to get a manual on a 3/4-series would be on a 320i with cloth seats and one of 4 paint colors with anything else was auto-only, M included. Oh, and dealers refuse to stock even that. This is, sadly, a common situation in the US these days. EnergizerFellow fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 03:52
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Inner Light posted:I want whatever this guy's having. I believe most, if not all major European cities will require vehicles to run on electric power to enter the city centre by 2030. It is more feasible to imagine EVs dominating Europe, as having a car is not a de facto requirement to participate in civil society as it is in the United States. There is also far more political consensus on the issue of phasing out fossil-fuel vehicles in the EU than in the US. Even ADAC, the powerful German motorists organization, has backed down on their hardline stance for an unlimited Autobahn. I recall China being similarly aggressive in their EV targets, but I do not have the specific knowledge about public transit and political will in China. The United States will be far trickier. Given California's power over the American auto market with CARB and the states that follow CARB regulations, and Gavin Newsom's political ambitions, California may try to push the ball forward on banning fossil-fuel vehicles. But I just cannot imagine Gavin Newsom willing to take the punch to his pretty jaw by proposing the ban of gasoline cars in Los Angeles, a city where you live in your car. But Gavin Newsom could make it very tricky to own and operate a car manufactured before the year 2000 to show that he's serious about climate change (never mind fighting the colossal waste and pollution of Big Ag or the pollution from all the boats docked in the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.) Electrification via mild and full hybrids becoming the standard is far more likely in the U.S. I will welcome this with open arms. Today, the Toyota hybrids are better in every way than their gas-only counterparts including acceleration and refinement, and the upcharge is modest. The U.S. may get a special treatment because of how large our market is, and the U.S. government will always be more lenient than the rest of the world because of the TRUCKS that the Big 3 would be broke without. KillHour posted:In Europe, manual buyers are actually doing it because it's cheaper. In the US, manual buyers are doing it because we're broke brained. BMW has the right idea with their "purist" RWD manual M4 vs their all-out AWD automatic M4. I imagine the manual will hold resale value better, but I'll be buying the automatic because faster lap times. And that's the trade-off. Either way, they're both luxury options. You would be right to note that driving a manual is a luxury feature in the US today. It means you have the luxury of avoiding a lovely commute where a manual, and driving in general just isn't fun. Or having a separate car for said commute. See half of all US buyers of the 911 GT3 opting for 3 pedals, because this is their special fun car. Buying a manual today is like buying a mechanical watch: you're purposely ignoring its technical deficiencies for the experience. The few manuals left are concentrated in enthusiast-focused trims that end up being near the top of the model's food chain. Demand has also concentrated among brands with history among enthusiasts: Honda, Mazda, Ford, Volkswagen, Porsche. It's a shame that BMW isn't with these brands given their history, but BMW has decided to focus on tasteless SUVs and nothing else. If the M4 will be your daily, I don't blame you for going auto. But the auto's advantages are primarily down to two factors. A computer is more reliable compared to the problem in between the seat and the steering wheel, and you can have shorter gears in an automatic for fuel economy and magazine test numbers compared to a manual which will need longer gears for both tasks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfhFxqoxwaU
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Jul 30, 2020 04:04
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EnergizerFellow posted:But it's still a M4. The problem we're talking about would be if the only way to get a manual on a 3/4-series would be on a 320i with cloth seats and one of 4 paint colors with anything else was auto-only, M included. Oh, and dealers refuse to stock even that. This is, sadly, a common situation in the US these days. I'm saying BMW does it right and avoids that problem. Godzilla07 posted:If the M4 will be your daily, I don't blame you for going auto. But the auto's advantages are primarily down to two factors. A computer is more reliable compared to the problem in between the seat and the steering wheel, and you can have shorter gears in an automatic for fuel economy and magazine test numbers compared to a manual which will need longer gears for both tasks. I work from home so if it was my daily, I'd be getting a Porsche GT4. It's going to be my other half's daily and besides the automatic requirement, she wants the AWD - because while you can drive a 500 HP RWD car through the snow, it's not something she wants to deal with. Edit: It's also why I'm not considering the C63s, Giulia Quadrifoglio or [insert high-power RWD sports car here] KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 04:54
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Godzilla07 posted:
I don't think auto v manual makes a lick of difference to a lovely commute - it isn't like you're going to notice yourself changing gears anyway. What does make a difference is an EV because of lack of noise and vibration.
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Jul 30, 2020 06:57
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It's all rather superfluous at this point. I haven't been behind the wheel since Friday.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:06
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dissss posted:I don't think auto v manual makes a lick of difference to a lovely commute - it isn't like you're going to notice yourself changing gears anyway. Someone has clearly never commuted in the SF bay area. Trust me, after 30 minutes of stop-and-go you notice every gear change. And your left leg looks like your dominant wanking arm over time. bull3964 posted:It's all rather superfluous at this point. I haven't been behind the wheel since Friday. Also true
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Jul 30, 2020 13:58
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Goober Peas posted:Someone has clearly never commuted in the SF bay area. Trust me, after 30 minutes of stop-and-go you notice every gear change. And your left leg looks like your dominant wanking arm over time. Same in the Tampa Bay area. I thought I really wanted a manual daily until I looked deeper into my soul and realized it's just a fleeting feeling and do i really want to drive every day urban sprawl, light to light straight flat roads in heavy traffic with a manual transmission....Not really.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:10
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After only driving manuals for 12 years of driving (only had maybe a total of 2-3 hours in autos during this time), getting my first auto car really make life nicer and for the 99% of normal driving it's very nice. But then again, the manual transmission in my dads V70 is so effortless that it's almost like driving an auto. Other cars I've had though have been annoying as hell to drive as soon as it comes to driving in stop start traffic.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:24
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I had a manual Mustang GT ('88) back in the day, and took it to Daytona for the 500. The traffic trying to leave was brutal and my left leg fell asleep after the first two hours and it didn't stop for another two hours going all the way through Orlando. Never took a manual car to any events after that 
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Jul 30, 2020 14:36
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I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for fifteen years and I have never once sat in stop-and-go traffic thinking "boy this is terrible, I really wish I could inch forward in an automatic right now." Maybe it's because it doesn't happen very often for me since I don't live in a big city, but I've been stuck in traffic sometimes for hours and it's more annoying cause I'm not going fast than having to deal with the clutch.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:41
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It depends on the car sometimes, in that situation in a Miata I probably would have been fine but the mustang had a pretty stiff clutch. And for the record I was wishing it was an automatic But it really depends more on where you live. If I were in an area with more open roads it wouldn't be an issue at all, but those roads don't exist here. [edit] also I will say it helps to have a car with a good automatic, I'd rather have a manual than a lovely automatic that cant decide what gear to be in. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 14:47
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CornHolio posted:I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for fifteen years and I have never once sat in stop-and-go traffic thinking "boy this is terrible, I really wish I could inch forward in an automatic right now." I think it really is because of where you live. If traffic is a daily occurrence, shifting will become a tedious monotony. Tedious monotony is also a half-decent band name.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:49
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Inner Light posted:I think it really is because of where you live. If traffic is a daily occurrence, shifting will become a tedious monotony. Tedious monotony is also a half-decent band name.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:54
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Inner Light posted:I think it really is because of where you live. If traffic is a daily occurrence, shifting will become a tedious monotony. Tedious monotony is also a half-decent band name. I used to do a daily 45 min each way in Greater Boston and it didn't bother me that much. I can see how it would bother people, but I never really noticed. I did leave really early in the morning to beat traffic, but that's because I hate traffic regardless of how the gears are getting shifted.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:56
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Goober Peas posted:Someone has clearly never commuted in the SF bay area. Trust me, after 30 minutes of stop-and-go you notice every gear change. And your left leg looks like your dominant wanking arm over time. I commuted for 5+ years one of the most congested highway systems in the entire world, in a cable shift car. The transmission wasn’t the issue. Not moving was. I sometimes had access to an Automatic car and it was just as tedious and bad.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:30
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After a year of working from home, I've become super intolerant to traffic and even fast moving congestion. You don't notice how much stress it adds to your life until it's been gone for awhile. I feel for the souls that don't make the transition permanently due to this crisis. They are in for a hard few months getting back into the swing of things.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:46
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bull3964 posted:After a year of working from home, I've become super intolerant to traffic and even fast moving congestion. You don't notice how much stress it adds to your life until it's been gone for awhile. This. That said, having dynamic cruise control with automatic start/stop down to zero makes a world of difference. Anything I plan on using daily needs to have it now that I've had a car with it. Same for cooled seats.
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Jul 30, 2020 17:13
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bull3964 posted:After a year of working from home, I've become super intolerant to traffic and even fast moving congestion. You don't notice how much stress it adds to your life until it's been gone for awhile. I noticed this even when I switched jobs a year and a half ago from a 45 minute mildly-congested highway driving commute to a 30 min walk+transit or 20 min bike commute. I love driving, am a total car nerd, etc., but having to drive and even driving in moderate traffic with other morons is the absolutely worst most terrible thing ever. I didn't even know how much stress and irritation it injected into my life until it just... disappeared. Not being leashed to a vehicle (even one you love) is so freaking liberating. There is very little enjoyable about daily grind driving, and it's also quite expensive to boot. And now having been fully remote the past 5 months with no end in sight, no commute at all has dropped that irritation and stress level even further. My car sits in the garage mostly, and I only take it out for pleasure and off-peak errands 1-2x/week. It's the best. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 18:05
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I live like 2 miles from work and cannot comprehend my coworkers with 45min+ commutes.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:26
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I don't like traffic and I don't like commuting more than like 20 minutes to work. I work at odd times which tends to help with traffic when I have a commute. I've had people suggest that I move to Denver to improve my quality of life and I basically tell them that I'd maybe make it a week before regularly commuting on I-25 would lead to a Falling Down type meltdown and footage of me firing at the news chopper from the middle of the highway made worldwide news.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:29
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I just wish I had a two car garage so I could have both vehicles on a trickle charger. That's my greatest vehicle concern right now, keeping the batteries charged.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:39
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bull3964 posted:I just wish I had a two car garage so I could have both vehicles on a trickle charger. That's my greatest vehicle concern right now, keeping the batteries charged. I'm in the process of bringing an AGM battery back to life with a combination of a standard battery, trickle charger, and jumper cables. Apparently I lost track of how many days it had been since I drove it and forgot to put the battery tender on it. I find myself missing my commute a bit. It was 15-20 minutes, 80mph most of the way, and about 1 mile of surface streets. And I went straight from commuting 5 days a week to WFH + having everything delivered. It was a very abrupt transition. Point A to Point A is all I do anymore and I have to consciously carve time out of my week to fit it in.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:47
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Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers
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bull3964 posted:I just wish I had a two car garage so I could have both vehicles on a trickle charger. That's my greatest vehicle concern right now, keeping the batteries charged. I've already had one battery casualty as a result of this pandemic. Sure it was 6 or 7 years old, but sitting around for weeks at a time didn't do it any favors. I need to be more religious with my trickle charger. Definitely seen a lot of folks around the neighborhood need jump starts when trying to drive their car for the first time in 2 weeks.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:52
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Zero One posted:Probably 4dr Outer Banks with the Lux package (for the Adaptive Cruise). Wildtrak was appealing too but it's more than I probably need. Jumping back to Bronco chat, but in looking at the trims, the 4dr Outer Banks is exactly where I ended up as well, although without the Lux package. I wish I was at a point financially where reserving made sense, but I'm not quite there.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:17
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Goober Peas posted:Someone has clearly never commuted in the SF bay area. Trust me, after 30 minutes of stop-and-go you notice every gear change. And your left leg looks like your dominant wanking arm over time. I don't think you realise just how light the clutches are on modern commuter cars. I have a manual Mazda 3 and a Leaf and while I do do most of my commuting in the Leaf these days that's mainly for economic and environmental reasons. L Anyway I used drive an older Transit van for 9 hours a day in city traffic and never wished it had an automatic transmission - just that it had a lower roof so I wouldn't have to worry about overhanging things.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:18
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My Acura and my manual S4 had light clutches and traffic boredom threatened my sanity long before I had leg problems. My WRX was a different story, though. That thing had a very firm clutch and my one serious traffic experience (leaving Chicagoland at the wrong time of day) was definitely painful.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:51
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Goober Peas posted:Someone has clearly never commuted in the SF bay area. Trust me, after 30 minutes of stop-and-go you notice every gear change. And your left leg looks like your dominant wanking arm over time. Commuted Daly City to Santa Clara for years in my mkv GTI stick and loved it, deeply regret not holding out to find a stick for the mazda3 I got two years ago as my daily. So ya, lived and breathed the worst possible commute and wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:59
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Zorak of Michigan posted:My Acura and my manual S4 had light clutches and traffic boredom threatened my sanity long before I had leg problems. My WRX was a different story, though. That thing had a very firm clutch and my one serious traffic experience (leaving Chicagoland at the wrong time of day) was definitely painful. My last job had me going to downtown Chicago 3-4 times a month, driving a stick didn't bother me so much as having to get up extra early to make it on time and parking fees. My Speed3 is the only manual car I've driven for any length of time though, so I have no idea how the clutch stacks up to other cars.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:36
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CornHolio posted:I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for fifteen years and I have never once sat in stop-and-go traffic thinking "boy this is terrible, I really wish I could inch forward in an automatic right now." Same, but with one exception. I got stuck in a jam on a steep-ish uphill section of a highway with traffic crawling slower than I could in first gear. That was the worst. I could smell my clutch after that and I'm sure the people behind me were wondering why I kept doing the stop-and-go instead of just inching forward. Otherwise, I've had a 1 hour commute on a flatter highway turned into 2 hours and the manual didn't make it that much worse.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:57
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I thought the Miata had a reputation for a light clutch so maybe mine's broken but it's feels like a ton of effort compared to modern econoboxes
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Jul 30, 2020 21:01
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mobby_6kl posted:I thought the Miata had a reputation for a light clutch so maybe mine's broken but it's feels like a ton of effort compared to modern econoboxes I didn't mind commuting with a 6sp Miata, but the great gearbox & overall feel wasn't enough to keep me from selling it and taking a bus instead (+10min commute, -$500/mo average expense).
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Jul 30, 2020 21:15
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Zorak of Michigan posted:My Acura and my manual S4 had light clutches and traffic boredom threatened my sanity long before I had leg problems. My WRX was a different story, though. That thing had a very firm clutch and my one serious traffic experience (leaving Chicagoland at the wrong time of day) was definitely painful. i had an STI and now have a WRX, i drove my brothers c7 and was astonished how fuckin heavy those subaru clutches are. the c7 feels like a goddamn breeze but that being said, i commuted in heavy denver traffic for a year and it wasn’t bad. in winter it could get annoying with all the accidents, but that’s about it. the “how long can i coast in first gear without braking” game was always fun
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Jul 30, 2020 21:27
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I actually found the daily traffic jam on the way to work in the morning less boring because shifting and clutching gave me something more to do
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Jul 30, 2020 22:03
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I actually found the daily traffic jam on the way to work in the morning less boring because shifting and clutching gave me something more to do Absolutly. I tend to find driving an auto in traffic just gives me more excuse to get frustrated at traffic
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Jul 30, 2020 23:20
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