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Mederlock posted:So I've been on a big Romantic/Beethoven spurt for a while now, and I've decided I'd like to take a few steps back. I would really like to get into some Mozart; what's a good list of his best works? Don Giovanni is the most important thing he did.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:47
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Its difficult to choose mozart but i would start wth symphonies 39, 40 and 41 and his 'Haydn quartets'. Also his piano concertos - all of them. I like Mitsuko Uchida's, personally. As for operas, I would go for Figaro.
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Jul 24, 2015 11:50
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opus111 posted:Its difficult to choose mozart but i would start wth symphonies 39, 40 and 41 and his 'Haydn quartets'. Also his piano concertos - all of them. I like Mitsuko Uchida's, personally. As for operas, I would go for Figaro.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:33
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James The 1st posted:You forgot the Requiem! But otherwise, this a good recommendation. The piano concertos are awesome. I also really like the wind concertos. And of course the Requiem. Figaro is so loving bad to go for, Mozart is the filler king. If you want a more influential and listenable classical era opera just listen to Iphinegie en Tauride it was much more influential than anything Mozart composed
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Jul 24, 2015 21:01
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James The 1st posted:You forgot the Requiem! But otherwise, this a good recommendation. The piano concertos are awesome. I also really like the wind concertos. And of course the Requiem. I like it but i always feel that its not really his...
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Jul 24, 2015 22:24
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Wyw posted:Figaro is so loving bad to go for, Mozart is the filler king. If you want a more influential and listenable classical era opera just listen to Iphinegie en Tauride it was much more influential than anything Mozart composed I dunno. I dont really care about what was influential. I just think that songs like susana are some the greateat ever. Now, the magic flute... Id say that that one is overrated.
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Jul 24, 2015 22:27
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The Magic Flute is not overrated, it's just hopelessly overplayed.
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Jul 24, 2015 23:22
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I think the problem I have with Mozart is that a lot of his stuff is overplayed, you could go to your local orchestra or music school and there will always be Mozart playing. I only have three Mozart recordings and they are all his operas. (since there is no decent opera hosue near me and classical singing is deteriorating) You could go anywhere if you wanted to hear Mozart. There are so many composers that fell out of style, and for no good reason. The reason magic flute is played is because its very showy and flashy. People will hear someone sing the queen of the nights aria and go wild. I think cherishing lesser known composers now is more important than ever.
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Jul 25, 2015 00:07
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Wyw posted:I think the problem I have with Mozart is that a lot of his stuff is overplayed, you could go to your local orchestra or music school and there will always be Mozart playing. I only have three Mozart recordings and they are all his operas. (since there is no decent opera hosue near me and classical singing is deteriorating) You could go anywhere if you wanted to hear Mozart. There are so many composers that fell out of style, and for no good reason. The reason magic flute is played is because its very showy and flashy. People will hear someone sing the queen of the nights aria and go wild. I think cherishing lesser known composers now is more important than ever. But I don't really see how being overplayed makes a composer not as good and not worth listening for someone that's not familiar with their work.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:38
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James The 1st posted:I differently agree that there are a lot of good to great composers that get neglected because the orchestras and big labels don't really go outside the big names. Lucky some of the indie labels like Naxos and CPO are willing to do so. Yeah if unfamiliar you're right, I never did say Mozart was a bad composer. But big name labels, especially DG can be loving disgusting.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:30
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Wyw posted:Yeah if unfamiliar you're right, I never did say Mozart was a bad composer. But big name labels, especially DG can be loving disgusting.
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Jul 25, 2015 16:36
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Why would it have anything to do with quality? If the 100th recording of a Beethoven symphony sells 10 times as much as a Reinecke symphony, it's not a tough decision. Universal is a corporation, not a non-profit for the promotion of classical music. At least DG isn't putting out cheap crap, that alone puts them near the top of classical labels.
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Jul 25, 2015 16:55
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cebrail posted:Why would it have anything to do with quality? If the 100th recording of a Beethoven symphony sells 10 times as much as a Reinecke symphony, it's not a tough decision. Universal is a corporation, not a non-profit for the promotion of classical music. At least DG isn't putting out cheap crap, that alone puts them near the top of classical labels. And that's probably because of the psychological phenomenon that most of the times people tend to enjoy music more when they know it already. The market share of classical music is tiny and most people buy it extremely rarely, so they are more likely to stick to things they already are somehow familiar with.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:08
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I feel like that is the opposite with classical music , people get very defensive of their favourite interpretation of a piece (it probably still applies but I find interpretation arguments funny).
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Jul 25, 2015 18:57
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cebrail posted:Why would it have anything to do with quality? If the 100th recording of a Beethoven symphony sells 10 times as much as a Reinecke symphony, it's not a tough decision. Universal is a corporation, not a non-profit for the promotion of classical music. At least DG isn't putting out cheap crap, that alone puts them near the top of classical labels. Personally, while I find that enjoyment of a piece music does go up the more I know it from repeated listening; I also greatly enjoy finding new music.
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Jul 25, 2015 19:36
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cebrail posted:Why would it have anything to do with quality? If the 100th recording of a Beethoven symphony sells 10 times as much as a Reinecke symphony, it's not a tough decision. Universal is a corporation, not a non-profit for the promotion of classical music. At least DG isn't putting out cheap crap, that alone puts them near the top of classical labels. DG as of late really has been putting out cheap crap though. They need to stop milking old conductors truly.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:00
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Holy crap I just listened to Shostakovich's 5th symphony and it is so amazing. I don't think I've heard music I've loved this much on first listen before. Everyone stop what you are doing and watch this concert right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FF4HyB77hQ Thank you 80k for recommending it to me so long ago. Still working my way through all the music you guys gave me, it takes so long when some of it is so good I have to listen to it a hundred times to get over it!
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Jul 26, 2015 11:45
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never not listen to shostakovich https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0iZGMXpquQ
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Jul 26, 2015 15:27
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krampster2 posted:Holy crap I just listened to Shostakovich's 5th symphony and it is so amazing. I don't think I've heard music I've loved this much on first listen before. Everyone stop what you are doing and watch this concert right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FF4HyB77hQ That's awesome! If you enjoyed that performance (Bernstein 1979), check out Bernstein's 1959 recording that he did 20 years earlier... a very different interpretation. Be sure to check out his 10th, 8th, and 4th as well his string quartets.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:13
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Honj Steak posted:A few years ago my guitar duo partner played a solo concert with orchestra in Azerbaijan. The conductor (who worked and lived in Europe) was apparently extremely nervous as it was his debut concert in his native country. A few minutes before the concert started he would burst into the backstage room where my friend prepared and yell at her that she better had to play perfect because else it would be a desaster of incredible proportions. Best thing to do with a young musician. What's your duo?! I'm one of these fellows: https://www.mobiustrio.com and I'm so happy to find more classical guitar goons. More on topic: I recently listened to the Regino Sainz de la Maza recording of the Concierto de Aranjuez for the first time... It's interesting, because I didn't quite know what to expect, because it was such a different era, and the piece was written for him. I have to give it more listens, but one thing I can say for certain is this - standards for technicality and cleanliness of playing, especially scales, have changed quiiite a bit since the '40s.
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Jul 26, 2015 22:59
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krampster2 posted:Holy crap I just listened to Shostakovich's 5th symphony and it is so amazing. I don't think I've heard music I've loved this much on first listen before. Everyone stop what you are doing and watch this concert right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FF4HyB77hQ I listened to the 1973(according to Spotify) recording which from the first few bars sounds identical to the YouTube one on the spotify pc app, and this piece is loving amazing. I love Bernstein on the Modern Composers, but me and my coworker listened to his interpretation of Dvorák's New World symphony, and I did not really enjoy it at all. The 2nd and 4th movement were pretty solid, but the 1st and 3rd were just retarded. Ridiculously over tempo, in a way that just felt like Bernstein had done too much cocaine with his cadre of young male playmates before the concert
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Jul 27, 2015 01:58
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Mederlock posted:I listened to the 1973(according to Spotify) recording which from the first few bars sounds identical to the YouTube one on the spotify pc app, and this piece is loving amazing. Bernstein's 1959 recording of Shostakovich's 5th was first released by Sony in 1973. Spotify (as well as any database that identifies CD's) have the publishing date and not the recording date. If you really compare the end of the last movement, you should hear a substantial difference. Compare the 1959 recording finale, which should be the same as the "1973 release" on Spotify. Compared to the 1979 that krampster posted, notice how much more affirming it sounds in 1959... yet in 1979, after Testimony was published (Shostakovich's memoirs, where he admitted the end of the 5th was a kind of forced rejoicing), Bernstein's interpretation was much darker... there is a paranoia throughout the entire symphony, and the end is just brutal, imo.
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Jul 27, 2015 05:06
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Mederlock posted:I listened to the 1973(according to Spotify) recording which from the first few bars sounds identical to the YouTube one on the spotify pc app, and this piece is loving amazing. Bernstein recordings are very inconsistent, his Bruckners aren't very good compared to many others and he was feeling himself too much in his later recordings. For some reason Bernstein is highly rated with American critics, yet everywhere else in the world critics hardly mention him. I think it's the same problem with America trying to find that one classic opera, let alone composer. (Britain has Britten, Italy has Verdi, Germany has Wagner, France has Bizet, Russia has Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsykov, America has ???????????????????) The answer is not John Adams or Philip Glass for obvious reasons. This might be as close as we get, but i suppose it's too Neoromantic for people at this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s7xCH-ZldI Wyw fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 13:36
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Figaro was the opera they teased in Amadeus as being so long the emperor fell asleep. Magic Flute is a really nice singspiel though, there's an English version on Spotify that's pretty accessible.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:36
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Couple of hours from now (8pm argentina time), Martha Argerich and David Barenboim are being streamed at http://teatrocolon.org.ar/es/en-vivo , playing Beethoven's 2nd piano concerto and Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony. Check it out if you have time!
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Jul 30, 2015 22:26
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I can't say much about Bernstein as a conductor (although I did enjoy that 1959 recording of Shostakovitch 5th) however I will say that he is a fantastic lecturer. He has a way with words like no one else, he's very well spoken. I've been listened to this series of lectures he gave at Harvard and I'd highly recommend them, here's the first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntmTQ8J7m5Y
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Jul 31, 2015 12:03
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Silver Alicorn posted:Figaro was the opera they teased in Amadeus as being so long the emperor fell asleep. Magic Flute is a really nice singspiel though, there's an English version on Spotify that's pretty accessible. Please don't listen to operas in languages the opera was not written for, we got rid of that poo poo in the early 1900s and there should never be a reason to go back. As far as accessibility I really hope people never listen to Mozart operas as a first opera, they drag on and on. Wyw fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Aug 2, 2015 |
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Aug 2, 2015 05:45
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Wyw posted:Please don't listen to operas in languages the opera was not written for, we got rid of that poo poo in the early 1900s and there should never be a reason to go back. The only problem is finding full subtitles for them, but I totally agree.
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Aug 2, 2015 08:04
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MET on demand has a free 7 day trial , just saying (i just signed up it seems awesome minus the actual cost).
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Aug 2, 2015 13:43
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Mederlock posted:The only problem is finding full subtitles for them, but I totally agree. You can always look into following along with a copy of the libretto? EDIT: I mean, opera singers also tend to ham it up, so even going in totally clueless you can still usually figure out enough to get an impression of what's going on.
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Aug 2, 2015 19:59
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Quantumfate posted:You can always look into following along with a copy of the libretto? Or you could just hear the music, opera plots loving blow mostly. Doesn't change how great it is. Wikipedia synopsis' are all you need really if you care.
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Aug 2, 2015 22:57
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Lumius posted:MET on demand has a free 7 day trial , just saying (i just signed up it seems awesome minus the actual cost). MET has really been loving up lately, as are more recent productions. (There are no good singers anymore) People don't care about line, squillo, appoggio, and are in general less critical. Sticking to older productions is a much nicer idea, but if you must there is a wonderful free streaming site http://www.theoperaplatform.eu/en In general people need to care a lot less about acting and more about voice, opera is not a visual art despite what recent productions try to do.
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Aug 2, 2015 23:03
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Thanks I appreciate it, I only stumbled upon the MET on demand thing because i was looking for HQ opera streams so I'll definitely check it out. I can't comment on the technical abilities of recent productions but I don't completely agree about opera not being a visual art (at least not partially), it always seems to have been a spectacle of some sort. I may change my mind as I continue on in Taruskin's second volume!
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Aug 3, 2015 01:08
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Lumius posted:Thanks I appreciate it, I only stumbled upon the MET on demand thing because i was looking for HQ opera streams so I'll definitely check it out. I can't comment on the technical abilities of recent productions but I don't completely agree about opera not being a visual art (at least not partially), it always seems to have been a spectacle of some sort. I may change my mind as I continue on in Taruskin's second volume! It's an interesting thing, I think I might be a little bias but usually older productions would include flashy costumes and.... that's about it. People in opera's don't usually move around and there are not many videos of the golden age of opera recordings 40s - 60s, there are some but they look like rear end. Plus Italians would go to operas and just sit and talk to each other during the boring parts, only queuing their ears in during parts they enjoyed, this practice has ended in basically everywhere but some italian opera houses. Wyw fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 3, 2015 |
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Aug 3, 2015 02:02
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Lumius posted:Thanks I appreciate it, I only stumbled upon the MET on demand thing because i was looking for HQ opera streams so I'll definitely check it out. I can't comment on the technical abilities of recent productions but I don't completely agree about opera not being a visual art (at least not partially), it always seems to have been a spectacle of some sort. I may change my mind as I continue on in Taruskin's second volume! It really depends on what period of opera you are looking at. As others have mentioned the Italians (during most of the Classical and Romantic periods) would just talk and not listen/look when it got boring. I guess that they (composers) would have indented it to be visual and musical, however the audiences just weren't interested. It was more of a social thing for them. However in later Romantic (Wagner etc) and "modern" operas, the work really needs to be seen as a "total" art work, i.e. music, dance, and visual art (in the form of set design and costumes).
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Aug 4, 2015 23:28
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Yeah the above poster is right, however that modernism has affected a lot of romantic stuff and now it's about casting someone who looks like the character and not someone who sings like the character.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:47
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Does anyone else find classical music to be a little too quiet sometimes? Don't get me wrong I fully understand the importance of a diminuendo, if everything's a crescendo then nothing is and all that. Although I just don't get the reason for sections that can go on for minutes sometimes where the whole orchestra plays pianississimo or something; what's the point of music if I can't hear it? I listened to a Bernstein recording with Chicago Symphony of Shostakovich's 7th recently and large portions of it were completely inaudible. I had the volume set so that the crescendos were loud enough to damage my hearing but even still some parts of it I could not hear at all. Of course I don't to change the volume myself, I'd rather listen to a piece as the composer intended.
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Aug 8, 2015 02:34
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krampster2 posted:Does anyone else find classical music to be a little too quiet sometimes? Don't get me wrong I fully understand the importance of a diminuendo, if everything's a crescendo then nothing is and all that. Although I just don't get the reason for sections that can go on for minutes sometimes where the whole orchestra plays pianississimo or something; what's the point of music if I can't hear it?
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Aug 8, 2015 03:03
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krampster2 posted:Does anyone else find classical music to be a little too quiet sometimes? Don't get me wrong I fully understand the importance of a diminuendo, if everything's a crescendo then nothing is and all that. Although I just don't get the reason for sections that can go on for minutes sometimes where the whole orchestra plays pianississimo or something; what's the point of music if I can't hear it? Don't listen to Morton Feldman.
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Aug 8, 2015 03:05
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krampster2 posted:Does anyone else find classical music to be a little too quiet sometimes? Don't get me wrong I fully understand the importance of a diminuendo, if everything's a crescendo then nothing is and all that. Although I just don't get the reason for sections that can go on for minutes sometimes where the whole orchestra plays pianississimo or something; what's the point of music if I can't hear it? As others have said, this sounds like a problem with the recording. Have you tried looking for other recordings of the same work? (The music should never be THAT inaudible)
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Aug 8, 2015 06:35
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