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Sorry for saying an unkind thing that wasn't worded well to begin with. For what it's worth I think I've played pretty horribly this game, so it was never meant to be judgemental or insulting, just how I interpret how the game has flowed.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:00
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Pander posted:Sorry for saying an unkind thing that wasn't worded well to begin with. For what it's worth I think I've played pretty horribly this game, so it was never meant to be judgemental or insulting, just how I interpret how the game has flowed. Sorry for getting a bit hot, I've had a pretty lousy week tbh and it's hard for me to let (minor, largely perceived) slights lie as a result.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:08
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CCKeane posted:It's My Second ReReg. trajanmax posted:I would be interested if Keane can shed more light on this vote. Not questioning it in any way really, just saying it is worthy of discussion. trajanmax posted:Well I wasn’t insinuating Keane was scummy, more looking to spark conversation regarding the vote. trajanmax posted:I don’t think I’m overly interested in voting for Keane. I'm thinking if Trajan and Keane are both scum, these conversations don't play out like this.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:18
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CCKeane posted:Sorry for getting a bit hot, I've had a pretty lousy week tbh and it's hard for me to let (minor, largely perceived) slights lie as a result. It's fair I said it in a really lovely way. I wrote it pre-coffee and it came out wrong. My gist is "Whether fair or not, I had trouble remembering your posts this game besides jokes on D1 and a big bruhaha with MSRR D2, and that makes me a lil frustrated if you win as scum or lose the game as town." My issue is that I played like poo poo all game, was more interested in counter-strike 2 and BG3 most of the last week than reading posts, and still make demands of other people to meet my mysterious standards. I'm reading heavily now as a mea culpa. Whether I win or lose I wanna pick the scum before game's over.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:21
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Pander posted:Okay read the thread for real.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:21
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hm Well, mornin' (and merry christmas if that is your thing). I have a lot on both my metaphorical and literal plate today and probably won't be around to post much until tonight, but I want to take some time to think about everything anyway and ponder the "why was Hal killed" question on my own. I'm not sure my vote preference has changed but I'd really like it if I could manage to not screw this up and drop the ball this close to the finish line.
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Dec 25, 2023 20:22
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CCKeane posted:Yeah, outside of MSRR, I find Cube and Toad both plausible. CCKeane posted:Alright team what're we doing
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Dec 25, 2023 20:49
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My Second Re-Reg posted:You get that last-minute swings are usually Bad, right? That they typically either get started by or are supported by scum? When I posted that, trajan wasn't the only person starting to get voted; so was Hal, and the two of them combined getting an influx of votes is what got the hairs on the back of my neck up. I am still not convinced that someone wasn't attempting to manipulate the vote away from Pander for a bus. I mean, generally, why would the scum want a swing last second on D1? The logical reason to me would be "Pander is scum and the scum want to save him." But when MSRR tried to poo-poo the last minute swing, they didn't vote me or try to change it to anyone else. At that point, if MSRR voted me, it would have been 2 on me, 2 on Hal, and 2 on Trajan. So why just stay unvoted and only join when it was already known toadsmash would hammer? MSRR, who did you *want* to vote D1?
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Dec 25, 2023 21:02
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My Second Re-Reg posted:This is the second christmas game in a row where we've popped scum D1 and I'm not sorry for being amused by it. My Second Re-Reg posted:Otherwise I got distracted toward the end of the game day, came back to the thread to see that we were headed toward a no-kill, refreshed to see if anybody else was hammering while I typed my own post, and hit submit. But rather than ask for an explanation you've been working super-hard to craft this narrative against me since the opening of the game day, and I think you're trying to divert attention away from yourself since you were already close to getting voted out on D1. MSRR read the thread enough to see momentum swinging toward Trajan. MSRR then disappeared or something but came back somehow aware there was a potential no-kill. The only way to do that would be to catch up reading, and if they caught up reading they'd have seen this: Toadsmash posted:I'll hammer if we're still short at 55. Please don't let everybody have amnesia over Pander after D1 though It makes no sense. And then MSRR goes hostile on me, just like they went hostile on Keane, because making a ton of noise about the person casing you seems to be their survival strategy.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:12
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MSRR no-voting D1 kinda blended in at the time because Sandwolf also didn't and Keane was also effectively not voting. In hindsight, I don't think they could articulate a cogent reason for voting Hal or me over Trajan, and didn't have a better plan. And CS/me voted Trajan before they could get a good bus together, so the only hope at that point was a no-kill by vanishing ("oh I fell asleep"), but toadsmash ruined that.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:15
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Except that's exactly what Grandi/Voodoo did last year. Did it work out for them? No, but from what I gather this tends to be a less formal, more "for fun & lulz" annual event. People do weird poo poo in here. lol I checked this game, it involved a joke turbo and lasted 5 pages. Bold move to use that as meta.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:23
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Pander posted:lol I checked this game, it involved a joke turbo and lasted 5 pages. Bold move to use that as meta. Like, using that game earnestly as a meta case for why you think Trajan was bussed D1 when you KNOW this game had a reasonably serious D1 and that one absolutely did not is disingenuous.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:24
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Except that's exactly what Grandi/Voodoo did last year. Like, Keane called it a strategic decision. There is a massive difference between Grandicap joking "we should turbo voodoo" a few hours into a game and Hal making the call to swap over to trajan after the third RL day on D1.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:27
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So, my case against keane is thtat he didn't seem to cast any meaningful votes except for that CS vote D2 and some vibes. My case against MSRR involves all the poo poo I just pointed out: contradictions, getting very hostile towards anyone casing them, and D1 play that only seems to make sense for scum. I think the reason I have a hard time not just voting MSRR is because if Keane is scum I'm going to eat so much loving poo poo if he hammers MSRR. Otherwise I think I'm a goddamn idiot for being distracted D2 and D3 and not just screaming to vote MSRR with all my lungs.
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Dec 25, 2023 21:35
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Votecount for Day 4 Not Voting (3): CCKeane, My Second Re-Reg, PanderWith 3 alive, it's 2 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 27th, 2023 at noon PST -- that's in about 1 day, 4 hours.
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Dec 26, 2023 16:58
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Alright, yesterday was a bust and I'm still half-asleep, so let me get a smoke and some food in me and then I'll be back and write words
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Dec 26, 2023 18:27
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Here are my major points against both Keane and Pander: Keane: * Vote for me on D1, and subsequent use of me asking "ok why?" to proceed to drag me out into a slapfight, was not a good look. * Did not vote for trajan. * Spent D2 throwing shade on me, Toad, and Cube, but then at first didn't want to vote for Cube? And then just kinda slid onto the Cube vote after asking what everyone else wanted to do; this feels self-excusing. * Was on Hal and Pander both for D3 but never cast a vote in those directions and disappeared toward deadline - could have been a way to stay off the vote for someone they knew were for certain town. * Has overall been a bit aggro this game compared to usual; first toward me back on D2, now a bit here on D4 with Pander. irl poo poo happens, though, and has certainly influenced some of my own posting before, so it's not like I don't get it. Pander: * I, of all people, am not going to give someone poo poo for having Bad Posts™ on D1, but this was definitely not a good D1 for Pander; first a vote for Cube, then on Hal, all while throwing shade on Sandwolf and Voodoo and before soft-clearing trajan. Like.... whoo * After soft-clearing trajan, then hops on the D1 trajan vote in a swerve that made even Cube ask "did that happen too quickly?" * Starts riding me after D2 opens but instead ends up voting for (and pushing the thread toward) a Toad vote. Why? If you spent that much time casing *me*, why vote Toad? Unless you think that keeping me alive is beneficial. * Same thing D3, shade at Keane and Sand, and ultimately voting on Sand, but still with a side of calling me scum. Where's the conviction? You absolutely could have convinced the thread to vote for me, why not ride that out instead? * Now, today, Pander's taking a lot of time and effort to detail out points against me that are either pure tone reads, very poor-faith assumptions, or otherwise could just as easily be lobbied against Keane or Pander themselves - some examples: Pander posted:It's a truism that is absolutely unsupported by anything other than MSRR saying it, and it doesn't even make sense when you think about it for half a second. This statement isn't supported by anyone other than Pander saying it; my experiences are circumstantial, I know, but they aren't any less tangible or real for it. For most games I've played in where sudden swings come out of nowhere, they are orchestrated by scum - it's an excellent way to keep town both frustrated and on the back foot by inducing more suspicion among more targets, and it always raises the hair on the back of my neck when I see it happen. Pander posted:So this starts off with the unearned "we've popped scum D1" to try to insinuate MSRR played some part in it I'm town so drat right "I" am part of "we". This is kinda silly. Pander posted:and then flat out lies: bruh It is not a possibility to you that I, as I said, got distracted and forgot about the deadline? I knew there was a potential no-kill because I looked at fukkin Votefinder and saw there was ~5m on the clock and nobody was posting - you're assuming I got back to the thread with enough time to thoroughly read every single post; I either did not read or did not comprehend Toad's post, and even if I had so what? Should I just sit back and trust Toad is going to do what they said they would with that little time left on the clock? Maybe Toad's internet goes down, maybe Toad eats a burrito, maybe Toad is scum - either way, I posted to avoid a no-kill, and that being one of he main cruxes of your argument against me... feels a little scummy in and of itself.. As to why I hit the "preview post" button to refresh before hammering it's because: Pander posted:Like, cmon. You didn't check to see if me and Toad posted at the same time, it was just instantly "Re-Reg posted after hammer, must be scum". It's not ridiculous to say "I wanted to avoid posting after hammer in case someone beat me to it" because that's just following the rules of the game, and inevitably somebody will give you poo poo about it. Also *kinda* weird to give someone crap about posting at the same time as somebody else when you were posting after the Cube hammer. Additionally, you keep riding my junk for referencing last year's game, which I was also a part of, and for no reason other than just saying "this is weird". Why? Why is it weird to remember a game I was a part of? The last game in this series, even? You see my avatar over there? Each image on the TV screen is a Mafia game I have partaken in - I happen to enjoy these and remember each of them fondly, while also using them as reference points and learning tools. If one of the 'best' things you can call me out on is "learning from the past" then idk how to help you. Also: Pander posted:when you KNOW this game had a reasonably serious D1 and that one absolutely did not is disingenuous. This D1 felt just as silly and arbitrary to me as pretty much any other D1 I've been a part of so far - just because last year's D1 didn't go on for 3 days (a christmas miracle compared to all of this) doesn't mean this year's wasn't any less stupid at the time, even if we killed scum again. We can have a different opinion here, but it doesn't make your statement a fact to hang me on. Pander posted:MSRR, who did you *want* to vote D1? Anybody. Legit anybody, whatever the thread decided (so long as it wasn't me :P) - I find people who think they can channel the spirit of Sherlock Holmes on D1 and logically root out scum to be, frankly, loving tiresome. D1's primary benefit is in retrospect, so while it's great to have all the random bullshit and "joke votes" to look at this late in the game, anybody who thinks they're psychic/big-brained enough to put together a capital-C "Case" on somebody before N1 is likely just an annoying, overbearing, self-centered twit. There are exceptions to this rule, and there may be times where I'd rather not vote for somebody over any other player, but I generally don't give a drat who dies D1. ASK ME FOR MORE OF MY OPINIONS ON D1
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Dec 27, 2023 00:04
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All that said, this is such a short game I think everybody involved has had a difficult time putting together a solid case for anybody else. And now, in putting together my final thoughts, I find I'm lacking some conviction of my own. On the one hand, it would be easy for me to just vote Pander - they're the one putting in the most effort against me at the moment. But what if that's why Hal was killed? The hope that me and Pander would keep at each other's throats all day today and make it easy for scum to just pick one of us off if/when we inevitably vote for each other? I feel like Keane has been really quiet and in the background for a lot of this game, and putting so much heat onto me early on but fading off it late-game just kinda strikes me as odd. Kinda like somebody thinking me and Pander bickering will make the final day easy for them. On the OTHER hand it isn't like Pander hasn't been riding my jock p hardcore, and the level of reach being put into some of the arguments against me, along with not building out much of a case against Keane at all, could be a last-minute attempt at getting Keane on their side. Same thing there, re: Hal - Hal's death means that no matter which one of the two of you is scum you're going into endgame with the other player who has cased me the hardest, and that feels deliberate with the logic that it shouldn't be too difficult to turn the other town player's vote onto me. So.... idk. There's a voice in the back of my head that's telling me I'm getting pocketed by Keane atm, but I feel like my overall case against Pander is stronger. Either way it's hard to feel confident that I'm making the right choice, so if anybody has any more thoughts to share I'd be quite happy to hear them. :P
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Dec 27, 2023 00:28
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I really don't like your casework there. Some stuff, like citing me voting Hal D1, I think a reasonable town player can understand as a D1 misread on my part. Making a mistake isn't in and of itself scummy, town players gently caress up constantly. And I didn't give up on you D2 until player availability and positions made it clear it was impossible. If sandwolf and Keane had both voted for you or me instead of CS it'd have been gone that way, no matter how much you or I would have protested then. I think we're not going to see eye to eye this game. If you're scum, that makes sense, you just make reasonable sounding noise and hope to hang on. If you're not, we might just approach things very differently, because what you're suggesting is a forthright response to my casework feels somewhere between disingenuously cherry-picked and completely anathema to how I believe you catch scum using cases instead of vibes.
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Dec 27, 2023 02:36
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My Second Re-Reg posted:This D1 felt just as silly and arbitrary to me as pretty much any other D1 I've been a part of so far - just because last year's D1 didn't go on for 3 days (a christmas miracle compared to all of this) doesn't mean this year's wasn't any less stupid at the time, even if we killed scum again. We can have a different opinion here, but it doesn't make your statement a fact to hang me on.
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Dec 27, 2023 02:38
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My Second Re-Reg posted:
But his D2 casework on you is really reasonable, despite your protestations to the contrary. It's good, building on your overreaction to his vote D1, and seems proportional to what you were posting. That you treat him pushing you, a legit way to get people to react and post, like tunneled badgering always seemed like an exaggerated reaction. My Second Re-Reg posted:Same thing there, re: Hal - Hal's death means that no matter which one of the two of you is scum you're going into endgame with the other player who has cased me the hardest, and that feels deliberate with the logic that it shouldn't be too difficult to turn the other town player's vote onto me.
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Dec 27, 2023 03:19
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Pander posted:But his D2 casework on you is really reasonable, despite your protestations to the contrary. It's good, building on your overreaction to his vote D1, and seems proportional to what you were posting. That you treat him pushing you, a legit way to get people to react and post, like tunneled badgering always seemed like an exaggerated reaction. I never called it tunneled badgering, Keane said that themselves. I said it was disingenuous to call someone sus after two posts asking why someone voted on them, and I said it was hypocritical to then go about making a whole series of posts after you just got done complaining about someone making *two*. And, again, my 'overreaction' was: "yeah but why though" and "hey Keane you ever gonna respond to this?" - yeah, totes overblown. Pander posted:Are you just ignoring the post yesterday where Keane said, after sandwolf's prompting, that he found me scummier than you? It feels like you're trying to ignore that in favor of this narrative. No, but how does that invalidate what I said? Did anyone else in the game put the effort into casing me that the two of you have? Yes, I do feel like Keane easing up on their suspicion of me could have been setting the stage to get us to this point. I have no reason to trust either of you at this moment, and that means I'm going to examine every hinky thing I can come up with. Speaking of: Pander posted:I really don't like your casework there. Some stuff, like citing me voting Hal D1, I think a reasonable town player can understand as a D1 misread on my part. Making a mistake isn't in and of itself scummy, town players gently caress up constantly. And I didn't give up on you D2 until player availability and positions made it clear it was impossible. If sandwolf and Keane had both voted for you or me instead of CS it'd have been gone that way, no matter how much you or I would have protested then. Importantly, I am not trying to say my case on you rests heavily on those points; pointing out 'hey, here are the questionable things this person has done' is not the same as saying "see this? this makes them scum". And I think that's one of the differences here: You are set on the narrative that I am scum, while I am pointing out things that have made my eyebrows raise through-out the game and weighing which is most likely scum between you and Keane. Pander posted:I think we're not going to see eye to eye this game. If you're scum, that makes sense, you just make reasonable sounding noise and hope to hang on. If you're not, we might just approach things very differently, because what you're suggesting is a forthright response to my casework feels somewhere between disingenuously cherry-picked and completely anathema to how I believe you catch scum using cases instead of vibes. I'm not going to try to pretend I've got a smoking gun this game, because... I don't. All I've got are a list of things I can gesture at and say "yeah that was weird" (but tbf I feel like that's what most Mafia "cases" come down to - it's rare you get a genuine scum slip or some kind of solid evidence). The fact that my list is somewhat bare is credit to either you or Keane playing a drat good scum game - particularly at the moment, if it's you, because I certainly cannot put "lack of conviction at endgame" onto my list of points against you. Pander posted:You honestly believe this D1 is equivalent to a D1 where someone said "let's turbo X" and everyone turboed X? Outside of a beefier D1 giving us more to discuss down the line, yeah, I kinda do. A swerve is just a turbo with a time delay, change my mind. :P
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Dec 27, 2023 05:06
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Outside of a beefier D1 giving us more to discuss down the line, yeah, I kinda do. A swerve is just a turbo with a time delay, change my mind. :P For what it's worth I don't necessarily think bringing it up this game is directly linked to alignment anymore after this conversation, it's more of a frustrating treatise on what mafia is that, again, I can't imagine we see eye to eye on if you think the two games are alike.
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Dec 27, 2023 06:48
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My Second Re-Reg posted:No, but how does that invalidate what I said? Did anyone else in the game put the effort into casing me that the two of you have? Yes, I do feel like Keane easing up on their suspicion of me could have been setting the stage to get us to this point. I have no reason to trust either of you at this moment, and that means I'm going to examine every hinky thing I can come up with. Speaking of: If keane's scum he just had to rely on my finding you scummier than him to win, or rely on you sticking to your read on me to win. Hal disrupts that. If you're scum, Hal being alive means we get one hour into today before executing you instead of where we're at now after 48 hours. In no universe do I kill Hal last night as scum. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't have gone after voodoo night one either, cause my god if anyone merited a doc protection it was him.
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Dec 27, 2023 07:00
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Keane do you have anything to say? Didn't know if you needed time to add something or if we should just start casting votes.
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Dec 27, 2023 07:03
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My Second Re-Reg posted:And yes I do, genuinely, 100% hate D1. I think 'joke phase' is nebulous BS, and the crowd throwing 'joke votes' at the start of a game typically end up being scum. There was a game I was in back in 2011 or 2012, Mass Effect mini-mafia, with 13 players I think. A sub was needed, so Soru, who'd played a fair bit of mafia in those days, joined. One of the first things he did was insist that people always replace out when they're vanilla town, and therefore we could trust he was town. He just stated that as a fact, and stuck by it even after I challenged him. It just felt *weird*, him going out of his way to assert that X neutral behavior is *actually* a scum or town-tell. That night, I essentially got a vig, killed him, and he flipped scum. That's the energy I've gotten from you basically all game. You make somewhat authoritative statements about things that either seem untrue or null to me, like with the assertion that people who joke are typically scum, or that using a game with a early D1 turbo to help with a meta read this game. Your points in your long form case posts seem to have shaky footings. They seem awkward over-extensions to justify your existence and actions.
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Dec 27, 2023 07:12
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ok now wait a minute ;P I agree we may be reaching the point where Keane is needed to weigh in, but: (A) Outside of my very first post, where I showed up to the thread and already had two votes on me, the rest were responses to other people who brought up my hatred of D1 - you and trajan are the only ones in this game who have never played with me before, and the rest are pretty well familiar with the "Re-Reg hates D1" running gag. I have stated my beliefs in many a game prior, with my hatred of D1 only growing as time goes on; someone commenting on it isn't that out of place, and I don't feel like me responding to it is either. (B) More importantly, I take a lot of pride/care in trying to straddle the line between "lovable curmudgeon" and "complete wet blanket". I preface a lot of my statements with words like "I think/feel", or "in my experience/opinion". I don't like taking causal experience and trying to pass it off as immutable fact; I also, despite my own personal opinions, expressly do not like telling other people how to play. I may hate D1 but if you love it, go do your thing. In fact, please, joke vote and shitpost all you want to, it just gives me more things to case you with later in the game. Just also don't expect me not to give my unfiltered opinion if prompted. (C) Aren't you kinda... doing exactly that? Taking your own colloquial experience and stating it as a factual basis for your case? I promise I don't wanna get into it, I really don't, just maybe you don't perceive it that way because it's coming from your own perspective? (D) for the love of god my 'bitching about D1 on D1' was a grand total of three posts - four if you count the one where I told trajan I'm usually a D1 vote leader, which wasn't a complaint but a raw statement of fact lol I'm not going to try to change your mind on how you feel about your case against me at this point, but I do want to say that while I may be a dick sometimes, I like to think I'm a dick within some fairly strict limits. I can be a bombastic, sarcastic, dogged cockbite, but I don't like the thought of telling someone else how to play, or being overbearing with my opinions, and I feel like I try to take time to make sure I don't do that. If I'm not being successful, sincerely, please call me out on it so I can be better in the future.
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Dec 27, 2023 08:28
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Pander posted:Keane do you have anything to say? Didn't know if you needed time to add something or if we should just start casting votes. Sorry, busy day, no nothing really to say. It's a bit of a coin flip for me.
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Dec 27, 2023 13:22
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My Second Re-Reg posted:ok now wait a minute ;P I agree we may be reaching the point where Keane is needed to weigh in, but: I really don't think you were successful no, in particular after I disengaged, you pushed past that. I feel like you said you really wanted a conversation about why I thought you were getting personal, and then when I gave examples you immediately disengaged while saying you were just trying to have a conversation while I was being mad, that's kind of not on especially when I did pretty much what you asked, and after I withdrew initially. Honestly, one of the reasons my opinion has shifted is because that would be some pretty dirty pool if you were scum. Maybe you are still scum! And then I'll think "Wow MSRR is kind of a jerk for that" until the end of time.
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Dec 27, 2023 13:26
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CCKeane posted:I really don't think you were successful no, in particular after I disengaged, you pushed past that. I feel like you said you really wanted a conversation about why I thought you were getting personal, and then when I gave examples you immediately disengaged while saying you were just trying to have a conversation while I was being mad, that's kind of not on especially when I did pretty much what you asked, and after I withdrew initially. I think we each have a very different perspective on how that conversation went, and all I can do is assure you I'm not going to ask someone to have a genuine conversation and discuss a potentially sensitive topic as a way to "get one over" on, frankly, anybody. And, when I said I needed to take a step back because it felt like you were just getting more and more angry and I didn't feel continuing the conversation was either productive or healthy for me, I meant it. And if YOU are scum and have me fooled and are making me go through all of this effort like I'm your trained chimpanzee I will be very salty at you! But at this point I think it may be too late for either of us to walk away from this game without a slightly changed opinion of the other, no matter what happens.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:05
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Alright I'll buy it ##vote: Pander
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Dec 27, 2023 17:07
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##vote Pander
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Dec 27, 2023 17:08
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Oh God, oh no, not again! Pander, Town Aligned Elf was cast out D4 Scum win! Scum win!
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Dec 27, 2023 17:16
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It was msrr
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Dec 27, 2023 17:16
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it me 
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Dec 27, 2023 17:19
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My Second Re-Reg posted:it me I will have learned my lesson to never respect your request to disengage in the future.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:20
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CCKeane posted:Alright I'll buy it For the record, back on D2 when I said I wanted to have a genuine dialog and double check that I wasn't saying anything particularly untoward, I meant it. I also meant it a few minutes ago when I said I would not use a discussion of personal feelings as a scum tactic; I really did want to try to figure out what I had said/done that had made you angry, and I really did feel the need to disengage when it seemed like nothing I could say or do was helping to de-escalate the situation. All of that was out-of-game real. Otherwise you and Pander had me dead to rights the whole game - there's a reason why I only commented on the two parts of your case that I found hypocritical/disingenuous, it's because the rest was absolutely right. :P
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Dec 27, 2023 17:23
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Oh, also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzMCjFQIefg
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Dec 27, 2023 17:25
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My Second Re-Reg posted:For the record, back on D2 when I said I wanted to have a genuine dialog and double check that I wasn't saying anything particularly untoward, I meant it. I also meant it a few minutes ago when I said I would not use a discussion of personal feelings as a scum tactic; I really did want to try to figure out what I had said/done that had made you angry, and I really did feel the need to disengage when it seemed like nothing I could say or do was helping to de-escalate the situation. All of that was out-of-game real. If you are being sincere there, I would urge you to read my posts, I do not think they are as you said and I do not think your characterization of my posts being unproductive is fair, and I do not think I can reasonably assume you would ask for disengagement in good faith going forward. You can, of course, feel as you want, but I do not think that is how it went. I really disliked that particularly because I felt you asked for engagement after I wanted to stop, and then when I provided it decided that it was your turn to get upset and disengage. I don't think that's fair at all, especially since I was not disrespectful or personal.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:27
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 05:46 |
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I think we see the reason for why I wanted to disengage as being different, and I'm not sure I can explain where I'm coming from any better - I apologize and I wish I could.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:38
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