|
Snake Maze posted:The whole extended bit focusing on Shell's romantic interests and being comically flustered really does feel like a weirdly sharp deescalation in tension, though.
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
GunnerJ posted:Annie is being nice to Shell because she's a nice person who tries to be decent to others, even if she doesn't like them, this is pretty basic imo. Like if she can care about loving Tony, she can care about Shell.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Snake Maze posted:The whole extended bit focusing on Shell's romantic interests and being comically flustered really does feel like a weirdly sharp deescalation in tension, though. Weirdly sharp deescalation of tension, in my Gunnerkrigg Court?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 15:33
|
|
|
Dr Subterfuge posted:Weirdly sharp deescalation of tension, in my Gunnerkrigg Court? It's more likely than you think!
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 15:35
|
|
|
basil leans his head over the wall and gives a thumbs up
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
Yeah the de-escalation feels really weird and disappointing. The confrontation with Jeane was super tense and exciting! The wisp hive was a weird and fun mystery with a good amount of tension! Why is this falling so flat? We just were told a few chapters ago that after merging, Annie has a super strong laser. Why isn't she trying to help dig out with it? Instead we have Annie once again taking no agency, just sitting around waiting for the plot to happen to her. It could have been interesting to have Annie meet up with Aata and Shell and no one else, and then the three of them have to figure out how to escape. Have them find some familiar locations that are now buried, and use them as landmarks to try to find an exit while also showing the damage that's been caused. Have this info we've learned about from Aata/Shell be delivered while they try to find an exit, and maybe encounter some aggressive forest creatures to build tension. Leave what actually happened to the court and all the characters we love a mystery to help raise the stakes. Have them encounter badly injured court and forest citizens alike and have them try to help to show how bad this attack was. Maybe get some drama out of Annie being hostile towards Aata + She'll cus of it idk. Something a bit more than "okay, guess we'll just wait here to get saved" If later we need an excuse as to why Smitty didn't Blip in to save them, could just say that he got knocked out in the attack but is ultimately fine or something. This is getting fanficcy at this point, but have it escalate to the situation seeming hopeless, maybe they get overwhelmed by aggressive forest creatures or some debris collapses and traps them, only for a big reveal that the rescue team is here, and whoa it's being led by Tony! I'm not sure where the actual comic is going with this but it seems like the perfect time to have him overcome some of his anxiety due to the urgency of the situation, or at least have him momentarily show affection for Annie because he's so relieved to see her safe, then we also get some real progress with their relationship beyond one character telling Annie "yeah he's doing great  "
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 16:38
|
|
|
In retrospect, I think it was a mistake to pause the comic to explain how "some people" were reacting to one of the characters wrong.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 18:55
|
|
|
Man, now I'm thinking more about how this could be so much more tense. A dozen pages into the chapter we already knew every major character was safe and unharmed - some of them didn't even seem to know that this happened! Loup's big rage-fueled attack on the court was apparently not enough to even be noticed by a guy working on his computer. Like I get that maybe the court is so huge that an attack on one end could go unnoticed by the other, but that's also kind of boring storytelling that undercuts what should be a big dramatic moment.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
Do we even like this comic anymore or is it a sunk cost kind of situation?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
I gotta be honest I'm not even sure what's actually happening right now, and I'm sure the characters must be equally clueless since they keep being reminded that they aren't sure what's going on, but its weird that no one seems especially concerned or curious about it. but I guess despite Loup going into a homicidal rage and attacking these folks in particular and the court in general with a literal earth-wave, it seems like he only actually hurt Shell and then took a nap or whatever and its just... I don't think I know what anyone's motivations are or what the stakes are anymore. Those things used to be pretty darn clear it felt like, and now I just don't know.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:18
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:I gotta be honest I'm not even sure what's actually happening right now, and I'm sure the characters must be equally clueless since they keep being reminded that they aren't sure what's going on, but its weird that no one seems especially concerned or curious about it. but I guess despite Loup going into a homicidal rage and attacking these folks in particular and the court in general with a literal earth-wave, it seems like he only actually hurt Shell and then took a nap or whatever and its just...
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:Do we even like this comic anymore or is it a sunk cost kind of situation? For me at least, it's not so much sunk cost as it is hoping this is a slump? Like the comic went for over a decade with very solid writing and storytelling. I find it hard to believe that Tom just forgot how to tell an interesting story after all that time, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that maybe this is just a low point and the series will recover.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
I mean, maybe? It felt like the stakes were sort of muddy even going into that whole scenario though. Then we briefly had what seemed like clear stakes again during the coyote conversation and it felt like the old days for a bit, but now its just back to stuff happening for reasons I don't quite grasp to people acting with motivations I don't quite grasp with the consequences of their decisions being things I can't really foresee.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:28
|
|
|
Inglonias posted:Or it could just be a fancy magitech calculator.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 19:59
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:For me at least, it's not so much sunk cost as it is hoping this is a slump? Like the comic went for over a decade with very solid writing and storytelling. I find it hard to believe that Tom just forgot how to tell an interesting story after all that time, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that maybe this is just a low point and the series will recover. Pretty much this for me too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 20:22
|
|
|
Annie’s gonna use the tooth to split herself back into 2 any day now
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 20:28
|
|
|
I have no problem with what’s currently happening. I also have no problems with Anni not immediately using a super strong laser in a newly formed cave made by an insane god. Seems like a recipe for a cave in if you ask me. Anni is also inherently a good person so she will talk to others in trouble. The whole mystery with Coyote trying to die is enough for me. I’m also interested in Aata. But I’m no fan of Cvet and prolonged exposure to Shell “I don’t like him!” blush is keeping me from what’s interesting. I could’ve done with 2 comics less possibly, but maybe this will be important in hindsight.  The thing that may also deflate the tension for some people here, is that ostensibly the mystery is what happened to the court. Except we don’t care about the court since it mostly seems like an abandoned warehouse district where Kaiju should be fighting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:Do we even like this comic anymore or is it a sunk cost kind of situation? Sometimes there are pretty pictures.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 22:27
|
|
|
I agree that the comic has had a lot of solid writing and storytelling, but it's also been loving wild going back through the archives and seeing how much agency Annie had compared to how much she does now. It feels like the comic moved from a sort of cartoonish hijinks with occasional seriousness to seriousness with occasional hijinks and Tom hasn't been really sure how to handle that adjustment. Like, I was rereading this chapter: https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=596 Annie and her classmates are forced to camp out in the forest, turns out the adults orchestrated a silly ghost mystery where they kidnap students to make the trip more interesting, blah blah. Annie figures out what they're doing immediately, figures out that this woman is a dryad, orchestrates a plan with an ability she just learned a few pages ago (the ability to write messages with her stone) and an ability she just learned a few chapters ago (using her blinker stone), knows exactly how to stop the dryad from going into the house, is able to create an illusion of a fake forest fire when we only previously saw her using it to create a fake campfire, et cetera. All while she is significantly younger than she is now. Like, obviously "silly prank by your teachers while you're surrounded by laser cows" is a FAR cry from "etheric god blows up forest" and I'm sure her lack of agency is meant to emphasize how out of her depth she is now, but it's just been nonstop of the plot just sort of... happening to her, when she used to be way more competent and capable of creative problem-solving in most chapters. Sure, it's REALISTIC for her to be out of her depth, but this has always been a YA novel kind of thing where the adults are useless and the kids are unrealistically competent. The switch feels jarring and like the writer isn't sure how to gracefully handle the escalation of consequences. It's why the "Dealing with HER" chapter was such a breath of fresh air. We got to see Annie figure something out and solve a problem, and do so in a way that was interesting and compelling and required her using the knowledge she'd earned while also learning a lesson (making peace with her weird shifted cloneself). It felt much more in line with the tone of earlier chapters. I'm not saying I want Annie to rambo her way in and kill Loup right now, or start lasering her way through an unstable cave ceiling, but I feel like there's some balance to be struck between "unrealistically in control" and "helpless" and Tom hasn't figured it out and it's been growing increasingly unsatisfying ever since around the Jeanne chapter. I dunno, maybe the moral of Gunnerkrigg Court is that the older you get, the more useless you become? I keep reading because I used to like this comic a lot and it has a lot of interesting ideas bubbling under the surface that I'd LOVE to see come to fruition (Kat breaking through to the ether like whatever happened with her inventing that green device to brute force it that I don't remember them explaining if they did?, a new society of human robots and the social repercussions of that, whatever Coyote is planning, Omega), but every slew of baffling pages with baffling choices strains my patience and makes me wonder if I should just come back in a few years to see if it's gone anywhere.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 23:16
|
|
|
Cvet is a like, mythical dragon monster that also really likes gossip, that poo poo is funny
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 23:45
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:Do we even like this comic anymore or is it a sunk cost kind of situation? i for one like it but it's okay if other people don't and want to post about it
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2021 23:51
|
|
|
Tiny Myers posted:Like, obviously "silly prank by your teachers while you're surrounded by laser cows" is a FAR cry from "etheric god blows up forest" and I'm sure her lack of agency is meant to emphasize how out of her depth she is now, but it's just been nonstop of the plot just sort of... happening to her, when she used to be way more competent and capable of creative problem-solving in most chapters. Sure, it's REALISTIC for her to be out of her depth, but this has always been a YA novel kind of thing where the adults are useless and the kids are unrealistically competent. The switch feels jarring and like the writer isn't sure how to gracefully handle the escalation of consequences. Dunno if this is exactly what Tom's going for, but I could see it working if the comic was tweaked a bit. So far there's not really been any hint that Annie being out of her depth is really where the comic is going? There was some hinting at it with Jeanne - Annie was out of her depth but things managed to work out. Makes sense to have the following arc be about Annie being out of her depth and having things NOT work out. But I feel like if that were the case, we probably should have had more scenes of Annie TRYING to have agency but failing. Tie the theme into her character development by having her struggle with her lack of agency, etc. The comic has done almost nothing to examine her being out of her depth since the aftermath of Jeanne, so I'm guessing unintentional.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 00:11
|
|
|
Macaluso posted:Cvet is a like, mythical dragon monster that also really likes gossip, that poo poo is funny i wasn't even aware she was part of the group and it made me picture a giant cvet-shaped hole in the wall just off-panel because she'd heard some juicy drama from half a kilometer away but yes this comic has been clown shoes for years and i mostly keep up with it out of inertia
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
For me I keep hanging on because every now and then we get glimpses of the peak points of the comic, and I feel "Oh, we're getting back into it--!" Like Coyote reappearing, Aata suddenly showing off his magic when it looks like a character is about to die, Loup flipping out and bursting through the Court, maybe even killing a whole bunch of robots in the process, oh poo poo things are happening what's Annie going to do?! And then Annie doesn't do anything but stand there, again, having dragged out interactions with a character we have no investment in while the comic quickly reassures us no one was hurt and in fact the major threat has suddenly disappeared after his attack so plenty of time to chat about this lady's crush. This comic legitimately has some of my favourite, most beautiful panels - the Coyote story sequence - and some amazing mysteries that slowly unravelled with a whole bunch of "oh poo poo they're out of their depths is someone going to die" - jeanne - and some heartwrenching moments - Mort's second death... and all of them are frontloaded from years ago.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 03:54
|
|
|
I find it ironic that the big twist of this chapter is that Coyote expected Annie to do something but then she didn't. Clearly he hasn't kept up since he died!
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 04:28
|
|
|
I think it's kind of annoying to spend several pages on dialogue between two characters that can likely eventually be summarized as "one character asks questions that the other does not answer."
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 04:29
|
|
|
Spitball: Shell is called Shell because she's a homunculus or otherwise Talos-like and not truly human. The point of her existence was to be an ether lightning rod but Aata was like nah It is irrelevant that her name is Michelle
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 07:05
|
|
|
Bleck posted:I think it's kind of annoying to spend several pages on dialogue between two characters that can likely eventually be summarized as "one character asks questions that the other does not answer." I think you can easily make it interesting by focusing on how someone does not answer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 09:10
|
|
|
"Aata" and "Shell" anagrams as "Halal Eats" rly makes u think
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 10:03
|
|
|
Spitball: Shell is allergic to mussel
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
Scholtz posted:"Aata" and "Shell" anagrams as "Halal Eats" Really makes me think that I could go for a kafta kebab.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
Kafka kebab more like it
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2021 19:36
|
|
|
Everyone in this comic has drat strong nails.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
Despite all his rage he is still just a dad in a cave
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 11:38
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:Despite all his rage he is still just a dad in a cave gently caress
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 12:22
|
|
|
Tiny Myers posted:I agree that the comic has had a lot of solid writing and storytelling, but it's also been loving wild going back through the archives and seeing how much agency Annie had compared to how much she does now. It feels like the comic moved from a sort of cartoonish hijinks with occasional seriousness to seriousness with occasional hijinks and Tom hasn't been really sure how to handle that adjustment. I don’t think her lack of agency is meant to demonstrate anything. The author just doesn’t seem super interested in her as a character. For a very long time now Annie has been a character who kind of bumbles around until the plot happens to or around her. Coyote or Loup or the Norns or whoever shows up and reads the script at her while we explore the pathos of characters that the author actually cares about. I’m saying that Annie is basically Snout from Legacy of Dominic Deegan, only slightly more competent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 13:23
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:Despite all his rage he is still just a dad in a cave Tony dug that tunnel with his bare hands. And no shoes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I don’t think her lack of agency is meant to demonstrate anything. The author just doesn’t seem super interested in her as a character. Your framing makes it seem like he's just bored of the story after so many years and just wanders off to explore more personally interesting characters occasionally.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Honestly, I really liked this page, and it gives me some hope. Gunnerkrigg's greatest strength has always seemed like its ability to find the humanity in subjects which are anything but, whether they be forest gods in increasingly frail bodies or a skywatching robot and the angel. Tony's shows of affection toward Annie have always been... understated and subtle, to put it mildly, but with this, we have a drat huge and overt display of affection from him. He didn't just coordinate the rescue attempt. He charged straight into danger, forgoing his shoes and ordinarily unfussed demeanor entirely, to hack away at the ground with his bare hands to save his daughter. Maybe, like the Court's barrier being torn down by the tantrums of a godly being, so too will his barrier between he and his daughter be torn down, with the situation bringing out his best and helping him find the courage to be a good man and face whatever's coming by his daughter's side. I could also be looking too far into things, but Gunnerkrigg's been my favorite webcomic for a while. And if there's any author who can pull this story out of the slow tailspin it's been in and make a great point, it'd be Tom. Here's hoping, I'm excited to see what happens next!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 15:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
There Bias Two posted:Your framing makes it seem like he's just bored of the story after so many years and just wanders off to explore more personally interesting characters occasionally. I mean that is basically what they are saying
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2021 17:19
|
|
