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tek79 posted:Conservatopia would be a shitstorm of failure and eventual economic and social collapse. Or as I prefer to think of it: Arizona 
angrytech fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 20:46
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babies havin rabies posted:There needs to be some kind of medal or alarm in D&D whenever a poster arrives at a Marxist critique of capital independently. Das etwas schreckliches.
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Jul 18, 2011 21:36
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Subject: Unexplainable, Inexcusable I challenge you to read this and NOT have the will to pass it on to your 20… No one has been able to explain to me why young men and women serve in the U.S. Military for 20 years, risking their lives protecting freedom, and only get 50% of their pay. While Politicians hold their political positions in the safe confines of the capital, protected by these same men and women, and receive full pay retirement after serving one term. It just does not make any sense. Monday on Fox news they learned that the staffers of Congress family members are exempt from having to pay back student loans. This will get national attention if other news networks will broadcast it. When you add this to the below, just where will all of it stop? 35 States file lawsuit against the Federal Government Governors of 35 states have filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon them. It only takes 38 (of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional Convention. This will take less than thirty seconds to read. If you agree, please pass it on. This is an idea that we should address. For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that members of Congress could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform... in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don't care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. If each person that receives this will forward it on to 20 people, in three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message.. This is one proposal that really should be passed around. Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States ." You are one of my 20+
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Jul 19, 2011 07:45
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The gently caress? Did I just read that as complaining that sexual harassment laws even exist?
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Jul 19, 2011 08:25
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jojoinnit posted:The gently caress? Did I just read that as complaining that sexual harassment laws even exist? edit: Ah, there's a page on factcheck rebutting this specific forward. Could be good to pass it along, Vector, if you think there's a chance the sender would read it. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 09:28
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Does anyone know anything about this business? A superjew I knew from college posted it on his wall http://www.learnandlive.org.il/jewish_girls_e.php quote:Jewish teenage girls from dysfunctional homes are seduced and lured into Arab villages regularly beaten and raped, often locked up with no way to escape. Muhammed calls himself Moshe, and what started out as a search for love become a nightmare.
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Jul 19, 2011 14:22
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Vector 7 posted:Crazy E-mail poo poo Yeah that is so full of bullshit. The Factcheck.org response covers most stuff very well, though the section on the Healthcare Bill is out of date. It's still false, and if you'd like you quote them the direct relevant section of the law: pre:Sec. 1312(d)(3)(D) -
MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.—
(i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective
date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make
available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their
service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that
are—
(I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or
(II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an
amendment made by this Act).
(ii) DEFINITIONS.—In this section:
(I) MEMBER OF CONGRESS.—The term ‘‘Member of Congress’’ means any member
of the House of Representatives or the Senate.
(II) CONGRESSIONAL STAFF.—The term ‘‘congressional staff’’ means all full-
time and parttime employees employed by the official office of a Member of
Congress, whether in Washington, DC or outside of Washington, DC.
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Jul 19, 2011 14:50
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Vector 7 posted:No one has been able to explain to me why young men and women serve in the U.S. Military for 20 years, risking their lives protecting freedom, and only get 50% of their pay. Such an injustice, being able to retire as young as 38 with 50% pay...
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Jul 19, 2011 16:56
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Defenestration posted:Does anyone know anything about this business? A superjew I knew from college posted it on his wall I'm sure there's a huge problem with Israeli girls crossing over the militarized wall and barbed wire to live in the paradise that is Palestine, only to find everything is not so rosy as they'd imagined.
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Jul 19, 2011 17:03
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XyloJW posted:I'm sure there's a huge problem with Israeli girls crossing over the militarized wall and barbed wire to live in the paradise that is Palestine, only to find everything is not so rosy as they'd imagined. Yeah, if you read the site, they help "at risk teens". Basically teens who live on the streets, are drug addicts, etc. And they claim that without their help, the girls would end up running away to Palestine to be beaten and raped by Arabs. Maybe they really do help these teens, but I strongly suspect that the bit about the girls has more to do with raising money than being an actual problem. Sure, it could happen, and maybe it even has happened before. But is it a major problem? Somehow I sincerely doubt it.
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Jul 19, 2011 17:12
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My reply email:quote:This email isn't accurate. This website explains why: http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/lawmaker-loopholes/
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Jul 19, 2011 19:51
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Sock on a Fish posted:Such an injustice, being able to retire as young as 38 with 50% pay... This isn't the way you want to go on that issue. You won't win anyone this way.
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Jul 19, 2011 20:14
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Her reply: Thanks 4 the update! :-) I bet she didn't read a loving word of it.
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Jul 19, 2011 21:58
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Vector 7 posted:...Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States ." If only there was some concept dating back to antiquity that the law should apply equally to all persons in a society...
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Jul 19, 2011 22:55
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Sarion posted:Yeah, if you read the site, they help "at risk teens". Basically teens who live on the streets, are drug addicts, etc. And they claim that without their help, the girls would end up running away to Palestine to be beaten and raped by Arabs. Maybe they really do help these teens, but I strongly suspect that the bit about the girls has more to do with raising money than being an actual problem. Sure, it could happen, and maybe it even has happened before. But is it a major problem? Somehow I sincerely doubt it. Israel is actively attempting to prevent miscengation because of the 'demographic bomb'. I suspect that this is just another front on it.
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Jul 19, 2011 23:04
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Zwiftef posted:Israel is actively attempting to prevent miscengation because of the 'demographic bomb'. I suspect that this is just another front on it. Is this true? I've never heard of Israeli miscegenation laws.
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Jul 20, 2011 00:38
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a foolish pianist posted:Is this true? I've never heard of Israeli miscegenation laws. There aren't any, because people are talking bollocks. Religious groups in Israel (like every where else in the world) discourage marrying outside the group, because that weakens the childs connection to the faith. Judaism and Islam are a very potent mix when it comes to religoin warring over the child because Judaism is matrelinial and Islam is parochial, therefore a child of such a marriage tends to be claimed by both groups. If the mother is Muslim and the father Jewish, Jewish groups won't really recognise the child as Jewish and won't try to make sure they're raised in the faith. As for these groups we're talking about; there have been messy incidents where Israeli girls have rebelled against their parents and married Palestinians. There tends to be a culture shock, as once they get married their new husbands expect complete obedience from their wives as in accordance to their culture. There are groups in Israel who claim these women are being abused and try to rescue/kidnap them and return them to their families. I have no real knowledge of the legal outcome of these cases, nor can I say if the charges of abuse were real or not. It's a really messy thing that I don't care to get into. I just wanted to point out this isn't a "miscegenation laws" official thing, but community groups involved in culture clash. When there are kids involved it gets really sad. As for: XyloJW posted:I'm sure there's a huge problem with Israeli girls crossing over the militarized wall and barbed wire to live in the paradise that is Palestine, only to find everything is not so rosy as they'd imagined.
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Jul 20, 2011 01:59
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jojoinnit posted:There aren't any, because people are talking bollocks. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Tel Aviv municipal program to prevent arab / jewish dating: quote:The municipal finance committee decided three weeks ago to give NIS 250,000 [~$66,000] to what it refers to as “‘an aid program for immigrant girls at risk”. The program will be launched this month in the Shapira, Kiryat Shalom and Nevs Ofer neighborhoods. The committee said some of the project’s aims are ‘locating immigrant girls at risk… case-specific family and community intervention to locate the girls… and locating the appropriate figures in the community to treat the girls.’ An arab that had sex with a woman while claiming to be Jewish was jailed for 'rape by deception'. quote:On Monday, Sabbar Kashur, a young Palestinian man from East Jerusalem, was sentenced to 18 months in prison for something called "rape by deception." Apparently, Mr. Kashur had consensual sex with a Jewish Israeli woman after assuring her that he was also Jewish. When she found out that he had lied to her, she went to the police. More racism at the municipal level quote:Last year, the municipality of Kiryat Gat, a town of 50,000 Jews in southern Israel, launched a program in schools to warn Jewish girls of the dangers of dating local Bedouin men. The girls were shown a video titled Sleeping with the Enemy, which describes mixed couples as an "unnatural phenomenon." If you prefer, at this point we can discuss the fact that Israel doesn't allow civil marriages and, as such, it is impossible for a jewish and islamic couple to get married in the state of Israel.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:01
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Zwiftef posted:I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Most I can say is that the actual recorded cases there do indeed seem to be vigilante groups. My argument is that this isn't exactly something like segregation, where it's sanctioned at the government level. At most you have the first link where it reports that a group received government money, and if the Israeli government is anything like every other government, all sorts of grants go to all sorts of things that don't necessarily reflect official policy. That rape one though, that's all sorts of messed up. All I'm saying is, municipal level politics reflect local attitudes and not the country at large. I think it's a stretch to equate local attitudes and politics with Israel at large having actual laws against sexual relationships with certain people.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:30
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jojoinnit posted:I read through the links and their sources, and I'm not really going to argue this issue. While the sites you posted are quite biased in their treatment of the issue, one of the stories does link to The Times who I generally trust. That's fine, although I can provide you with many, many more sources. Now, I would like you to discuss why you believe: jojoinnit posted:As for these groups we're talking about; there have been messy incidents where Israeli girls have rebelled against their parents and married Palestinians. There tends to be a culture shock, as once they get married their new husbands expect complete obedience from their wives as in accordance to their culture. Could you provide me some evidence that the culture of Palestinians or Israeli Arabs involves 'complete obedience from their wives'? It seems to me that you're attempting to conflate Palestinians with some of the more anti-feminist strains of Islam and, last time I checked, Palestinians tend to be more western!
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Jul 20, 2011 03:41
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Only dirty arabs would make their wives completely submissive and obedient like Marcus and Michele Bachmann.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:44
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Zwiftef posted:That's fine, although I can provide you with many, many more sources. Now, I would like you to discuss why you believe: While I certainly wouldn't conflate it with subjugation, there are definitely gender roles that women are expected to fill. It's not common to work out of the home full time, because you are expected to cook dinner for him when he gets home. When you have kids you will definitely need to either quit or work from home, because his mother would be askance at the thought of her grandchildren spending their pre-grade school days with a sitter. Outside of specific duties, Jewish women will have a difficult time in that society. They will be treated with a certain amount of suspicion, certainly from the older generation and there will certainly be tension at the idea of her going with her husband to visit her parents. This is where the real interesting bits begin. The reason I initially referred to these types of situation as involving girls "rebelling" is because that tends to be the case, at least with the ones that get publicised. Marrying a Palestinian can be seen as a lash against her family and culture. Thing is, people tend to grow up and at the point she wants to reconnect with her family and introduce her kids to their grandparents, her husband will be the one stopping her, because changing the precarious balance of his family situation can upset the whole marriage. He forbids her from going back to see her parents. Her parents call a vigilante group who then announce that they've found a Jewish girl being held in a forced marriage by a Palestinian and run to rescue her. Honestly, the whole thing is hosed up. One of my friends ended up in a sad marriage, she was a Jewish girl from Toronto, he was a first generation Moroccan, and after their marriage he moved the family to Morocco, where life became miserable for her as she was basically forbidden from talking so noone would know he married a Jew. I'm sorry, but that part of the world tends to be a Patrelinial culture first and foremost, and western girls have trouble with that once the romance of the other has worn off. Edit: She forced a divorce somehow after a couple years. She wrote about her experiences, but I dont know if she got them published. It was too dicey a story for most lifestyle outlets to print, you're opening up a massive can of worms with that one. Although it's been around four years since she tried and times are changing. Esquire (UK) published a story last month that got pretty drat near to claiming Britain was about to have racial violence as a result of immigration, using Sweden as an example. That would never have been published even two years ago. jojoinnit fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jul 20, 2011 |
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Jul 20, 2011 03:58
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tek79 posted:We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values, AND our unstoppable desire to kill all who disagree with us! This is something about the religious ultra-right jingoists that has always mystified me. And it's not just unbridled aggression, either. Even relatively (by our cultural standards) mild violent inclinations seem contrary to Christian belief. Where in the Bible does Jesus even give permission to defend oneself? I'm pretty sure he explicitly denies his followers even that right. How can people reconcile their violent attitudes with their faith?
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Jul 20, 2011 04:16
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"Sell your cloaks and buy swords", Luke 22:36.
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Jul 20, 2011 04:39
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Juffo-Wup posted:This is something about the religious ultra-right jingoists that has always mystified me. And it's not just unbridled aggression, either. Even relatively (by our cultural standards) mild violent inclinations seem contrary to Christian belief. Where in the Bible does Jesus even give permission to defend oneself? I'm pretty sure he explicitly denies his followers even that right. How can people reconcile their violent attitudes with their faith? Well you see, they've been Christian their entire life, so they've clearly got the being Christian thing down pretty well. This means any feelings they have are to be justified by interpreting Christianity in such as way as to make these feelings ok. Striving to better yourself and be more like Jesus? Well... 
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Jul 20, 2011 04:49
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Enjoy posted:"Sell your cloaks and buy swords", Luke 22:36. That section is a bit weird, since when Peter draws his sword during Jesus' arrest shortly afterwards, Jesus scolds him for it (Matthew 26:52). Not to say that contradictions in the Bible are all too rare, but it's not a great example of Jesus being pro-violence either.
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Jul 20, 2011 04:52
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a foolish pianist posted:Is this true? I've never heard of Israeli miscegenation laws. There aren't miscegenation laws. Instead, the only form of marriage allowed on Israeli soil is one conducted by religious authorities of one of the few religious groups recognized by the Ottoman Empire. That does include Orthodox Judaism, Catholic and Orthodox Christianity, Sunni Islam, and maybe a few others. But they only recognize marriages conducted within those groups. Israel contracts much of its racism out through its theocratic legislation. (And yes, for the Muslim community, there is Sharia law in Israel. Stuff that in a Republican pipe and smoke it) Mind you, you can get married abroad and then they are forced to recognize such a marriage in Israel. But divorce is basically settled by the appropriate religious authorities. That is, if you're Reform Jew, and were married to another Reform Jew in the US, if you want to get a divorce after you both moved to Israel, it will be dealt with through the Orthodox Rabbinate. Sorry for the derail.
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Jul 20, 2011 05:39
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Juffo-Wup posted:This is something about the religious ultra-right jingoists that has always mystified me. And it's not just unbridled aggression, either. Even relatively (by our cultural standards) mild violent inclinations seem contrary to Christian belief. Where in the Bible does Jesus even give permission to defend oneself? I'm pretty sure he explicitly denies his followers even that right. How can people reconcile their violent attitudes with their faith? There are plenty of groups that twist the stuff Jesus says to mean the exact opposite. Take for example the proverb "It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for him to enter heaven." Pretty obviously stating that you shouldn't be obsessed with money and make acquiring it your only goal, right? Nope! Apparently they claim that the "eye of a needle" isn't a metaphor and is instead a real place and that it was a gate to a city so its pretty drat easy for a rich person to pass through it!
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Jul 20, 2011 12:43
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muscles like this? posted:There are plenty of groups that twist the stuff Jesus says to mean the exact opposite. Take for example the proverb "It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for him to enter heaven." Pretty obviously stating that you shouldn't be obsessed with money and make acquiring it your only goal, right? Nope! Apparently they claim that the "eye of a needle" isn't a metaphor and is instead a real place and that it was a gate to a city so its pretty drat easy for a rich person to pass through it! Actually from what I understand it might really have referred to a gate but it was a rather small one and the phrase is "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (ie. pretty hard), than for a rich man to enter heaven (much harder)" Edit: Wikipedia is even more helpful than my understanding: quote:"The eye of a needle" is part of a saying of Jesus recorded in the synoptic gospels:
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Jul 20, 2011 14:04
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Orange Devil posted:Actually from what I understand it might really have referred to a gate but it was a rather small one and the phrase is "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (ie. pretty hard), than for a rich man to enter heaven (much harder)" There was a good explanation of it on QI.
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Jul 20, 2011 14:18
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ts12 posted:That section is a bit weird, since when Peter draws his sword during Jesus' arrest shortly afterwards, Jesus scolds him for it (Matthew 26:52). Not to say that contradictions in the Bible are all too rare, but it's not a great example of Jesus being pro-violence either. Revelation 19:11-16 posted:I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: After this, Jesus proceeds to slaughter the armies of the mortal kings. As for gospel passages: Mathew 10:34 posted:Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. John 2:13-15 posted:The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. Those are the ones I can think of in which Jesus is directly involved in violence (and not at the receiving end). Though, I suspect if you asked those who favor the death penalty, torturing suspected terrorists, and war they would be more likely to point to the Old Testament.
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Jul 20, 2011 14:56
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For the money changer one at least, during my Catholic education they interpret that nowadays as showing Jesus is at least partially human and was capable of anger from time to time, not that that was something to be idealized. Not that the Catholic church speaks for all Christian sects, obviously. I got nothing on that sword one though, but I suppose that was your intent.
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Jul 20, 2011 16:13
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Do as I say, not as I do etc...
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Jul 20, 2011 16:14
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I dunno man I think we're all capable of hypocrisy from time to time. I'm sure even the people you look up to occasionally make misteps. It doesn't make it right it's just human. For the most part I think Jesus has some pretty good teachings in there, majority of the time he is shown as an advocate of non-violence and demonstrate it even, and I find that pretty respectable example whether or not it actually happened. It doesn't help that it was written 100 years after he was supposedly around and through the lens of a less enlightened time. Edit: and by 4 different authors. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jul 20, 2011 |
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Jul 20, 2011 16:20
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I am far from a biblical scholar, but taking one line on its own rarely seems instructive. If you just read 'I did not come to bring peace, but a sword' it's easy to say 'oh huh, I guess jesus was kind of a badass, with his sword and all'. I went and looked up Mathew 10, and this is the surrounding text: quote:32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. There is nothing about this that sounds like Jesus is doing violence, or even that he's advocating that people commit it. The whole section is about him sending out the disciples, and warning them of the problems they are going to face. It even inlcudes an admonition to run away if persecuted. In the context of 35-37, it seems pretty clear that 'but a sword' is part of his warning that this whole thing is going to be difficult and divisive, and that people have to be willing to break with their family and communities about their faith. Alternatively, Jesus is opposed to the heteronormative family unit, and wants to destroy the traditional alliances within families? That seems more likely than some sort of allowance to wage war. Edit: Also seems to be some sort of allusion to Micah in the OT, but I have no idea what those implications would be?
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Jul 20, 2011 16:50
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jojoinnit posted:As for these groups we're talking about; there have been messy incidents where Israeli girls have rebelled against their parents and married Palestinians.  Holy crap that's awful. Is the community receptive to the girls after they come to their senses, or are they shunned? Please tell me the guys in the community pay these creeps back somehow.  The fact that there is no legal recourse against these monsters in our so called "enlightened" liberal society is terrible. I'm no racist, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
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Jul 20, 2011 17:04
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Israeli's are ridiculously nationalistic and even racist. It's to be expected if you're literally surrounded by countries that want to destroy you. Louis Theroux made an interesting documentary about it a few months ago, called Ultra Zionists or something. I encourage everybody interested in this topic to watch it.
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Jul 20, 2011 17:07
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40 OZ posted:
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Jul 20, 2011 17:13
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Ashcans posted:Edit: Also seems to be some sort of allusion to Micah in the OT, but I have no idea what those implications would be? Micah was a minor prophet who preached social justice and the restoration of Jerusalem, not sure what the allusion would be?
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Jul 20, 2011 17:15
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spankmeister posted:Israeli's are ridiculously nationalistic and even racist. It's to be expected if you're literally surrounded by countries that want to destroy you. It's become a political issue. Whenever you hear about people pushing for a "building freeze" in the peace process, that's what they're talking about. Many building companies in israel refuse to work on settlements, not least of the resins is that many Palestinians work in the construction industry.
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Jul 20, 2011 17:18
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