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Dick Burglar posted:Picture Sym's turrets being flung like Widow's mine. I prefer to picture them being flung like a college softball pitcher.
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May 30, 2018 18:29
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The only good Symmetra rework would be reworking her right out of the game.
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May 30, 2018 18:40
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The only good Baston rework would be reworking it right out of the game. Fixed
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May 30, 2018 18:58
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no one tilts like baston, no one throws like baston, nobody else is as far from the payload as baston
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May 30, 2018 19:03
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Minrad posted:no one tilts like baston, no one throws like baston, nobody else is as far from the payload as baston Is baston a sym main?
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May 30, 2018 19:04
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Minrad posted:no one tilts like baston, no one throws like baston, nobody else is as far from the payload as baston zwee zwee zwee boo boo doo de doo bwoo chirr chirr chirr chirr chirr BASTONNNNNNN
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May 30, 2018 19:59
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As someone with 50 hours on Sym in quickplay alone...Sym is the worst character in the game. Like, legitimately, she's super bad. The melee range and slowdown on placing her turrets makes that entire ability only usable on defense, and they can be (and constantly are) destroyed by accident with something like Sombra or Reaper spray from across the map. Her alt fire charges and moves so slowly that it's only usable as a zoning tool that punishes enemy mistakes rather than rewards any of your own aim. Her primary fire is the biggest problem about her because it makes her an oppressive threat on console and in low skill tiers where people can't click on her head, and absolutely worthless without a pocket healer in higher skill tiers where they can. I personally love shield gen but accept that it's just straight up a bad ability because it's countered by knowing the maps, so in anything plat and above a tracer will basically instantly destroy it. Her projected barrier is a good ability in a vacuum, but has almost no synergy with the rest of her kit, since it allows her to make an approach but she has zero mobility tools so she can't actually do anything to counter the dread strategy "walking in the other direction." Personally, I'm completely thrilled with the rework, pending anything going super wrong with it of course. It actually gives her an identity as a zone control focused DPS with team support aspects a la Mei or Sombra. She has longer range, her alt fire moves three times as fast so you can actually aim at and hit people with it, and she gains rather than loses ammo when using her primary fire on shields, retaining the anti-shield niche that used to be covered by her alt fire and allowing her to use them to ramp up her damage to then destroy everyone behind the shield. Launching turrets allows you to place them in much more unexpected spots, and the 30 HP on them means that while they're still easily killable and countered by the same people as before, they don't die to random D.va spray from 200m away. The teleporter has obvious support applications, but she can also use it for personal mobility, to get good angles for launching turrets or orbs into unexpected places from far away, etc. The wall can be used to wall off your entire team from heroes plinking at a distance like Widow or Junkrat for an entire fight, or placed ON the point to let your team juke in and around it like a vastly stronger Winston shield. Overall, it sounds real strong and vastly more cohesive than her old kit. I'm loving sick and tired of getting abuse thrown at me and constantly getting reported just for playing a hero that I love, and I'm really pleased to see them decide to actually rework her into a real, synergistic hero rather than just give her another minor buff and let her languish in unpickability for another year and a half. If there's one regret I have with new Sym, it's that she's definitely less accessible to people with disabilities now, which is a tough pill to swallow. Unfortunately, though, I don't think lock-on DPS really has a place in Overwatch. It's impossible to balance: if you make it stronger it dominates low skill tiers and console, if you make it weaker the character is unplayable at higher skill tiers, full stop. If you really liked old Sym, I'd say give new Sym a try, but also give Moira a shot. She's a much better-designed alternative for old Sym's niche of controlling a room and having a weapon that's simple to aim. I also think that people are overreacting with saying her new primary fire will be just like Zarya's, considering Moira's beam is ALSO just like Zarya's (it's a long, thick beam, the visual effect just makes it look like a lockon) and that weapon also feels good and satisfying to give people the succ with.
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May 30, 2018 20:24
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Hello, fellow Symmetra Mains. Personally, I will be sad to see the lock-on go as it was a very fun weapon to dance in combat with, but it's easily the most enraging aspect of her kit and if something had to give it only makes sense that would be it. I play Symmetra because she scratches my TF2 Engie itch with some of the Pyro's mindgames and "You're always the underdog in a 1v1" playstyle to her, so having less buildings to mess around with is going to suck, but I'm glad she's going to be a much better character. A thicker Zarya beam with high dps, ramp-up and the ability to refill ammo from busting down barriers is probably a much better weapon in nearly every meaningful way other than tilting bad dps mains. Her M2 likewise isn't good at much else other than making barrier comps, Bastions and Torbs panic and misposition themselves, so making it able to actually hit things that know how to move out of the way of incoming fire is going to be a significant improvement. Yes, it is going to be a lot less unique as a weapon, but the barrier drain is at least unique to her. The turrets are going to be a lot better this way. The placement slowdown and activation delay made them near-useless in any active engagement and they took so long to refresh that a dedicated Winston or Dva wrecking them made bothering to place them a waste of time as it kept you out of the fight for way too long. With 6 1 HP turrets you have to place them in spots that are hard to spot or distracting to destroy, otherwise you'll be at 2x sentries placed an awkward lot of the time because it takes a whole minute to refresh all 6 cooldowns. Having only three more resilient, stronger turrets and being able to set them in creative spots from long range is going to help a lot. And if it sort of works like a Moira orb and you can shoot turrets upwards to zone out/shoot down weakened Pharas then that's even better. Both of her ults being static buildings was unique and fun, but it just didn't suit Overwatch, a game full of sneaky flanker classes that can destroy them in seconds. The Shieldgen is countered by a billion things (Graviton, EMP, Tracer existing) and the Teleporter depends entirely on your team using its limited charges correctly plus everyone having movement abilities devalues it and makes it a conditional ult (it's basically useless on last point defense). I would have preferred to have the current teleporter as a single charge E ability (sort of like a worse rez) but I'm tickled with the idea of teleporting dva bombs or riptires and am looking forward to pulling off some shenanigans with it. It's easily the part of the rework that I'm most interested in and definitely makes her unique in comparison to everyone else. Then there's her ult. I don't know you, but "Hey what if we make a barrier that spans the entire goddamn map" has a wow factor for me that a 75 hp Shieldgen lacks, even if it is less unique. Moreover, it is basically a support ult that is going to block at least one ult and give your friends precious few seconds to shoot at the red team with impunity. Support ults are almost universally the best in the game, and I expect hers to be annoyingly effective at keeping people alive. I'm with Panic! in that I think it is a shame she will be less accessible, but it is definitely going to make her a much better character. Orcs and Ostriches posted:The only good Symmetra rework would be reworking her right out of the game. Such a lack of imagination. How unsightly.
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May 31, 2018 00:49
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What.. interesting ways your mind works. I've taken your opinion under advisement.
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May 31, 2018 00:53
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Kindly adjust.
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May 31, 2018 01:07
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I'll withhold judgement, but I remain unconvinced that the changes they listed will make her remotely competitive. She's a DPS (and has always been), and you bring DPS to kill stuff. I can't imagine Blizzard giving Symm a damage output that's actually, you know, good, so she'll basically be in the same boat Mei is, where she gets some sort of nebulous trickster utility instead of being able to actually kill anything effectively.
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May 31, 2018 01:13
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megane posted:I'll withhold judgement, but I remain unconvinced that the changes they listed will make her remotely competitive. She's a DPS (and has always been), and you bring DPS to kill stuff. I can't imagine Blizzard giving Symm a damage output that's actually, you know, good, so she'll basically be in the same boat Mei is, where she gets some sort of nebulous trickster utility instead of being able to actually kill anything effectively.
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May 31, 2018 01:16
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My concern isn't that Symmetra will be less useful, my concern is that she'll be less fun, that I'll have lost the reason I was interested in the game in the first place (yes, I did straight-up buy the game for a single hero). The real centerpiece of what doesn't work here is that her gunplay has just turned into Zarya. That means I say goodbye to the only hero I felt genuinely good at, in favor of a copy of my second-least-favorite hero in the game (again, I only hate Doomfist more, but am not sure Doomfist isn't a prank). I've never even accidentally scored a kill with Zarya, and yet I'm expected to enjoy the fact we're getting another one of her instead of keeping the only hero I can reliably score multiple kills with. The retool, from what I can see, makes her a combination of Zarya, Orisa and Mei, with a unique teleporter. And I don't like any of those heroes, or the notion of that teleporter. Someone suggested I play Moira. I have played her, she's one of my standard stables, and skills from Sym probably carried over because I remember getting plays of the game early on with her. But... I don't know why, she never clicked. I feel like I'm doing nothing with her, rather than Sym where I feel like I'm just murdering people left and right. Might be that lack of damage rampup and weaker lockon, combined with the ulti that's another of those Zarya-style lasers where I can't tell what I'm hitting, if anything. Or maybe it's the fact that she's an actual healer-support; I feel like I have to sit close to everyone else and prioritize healing when I play as Moira, rather than Sym where I can dive in pretty hard because once I've got turrets up and my ulti down nobody's asking anything of me. I actually don't play Moira often, because she's not enough of a fighter or a healer to make me feel comfortable playing as either. If I want to play someone going on the offensive, I have so many other choices; if I need to play a healer (I never want to play a healer, but I will if nobody else is biting that bullet) I'm just going to play as Lucio. Moira's identity is too split for me to play as her for either of her sides.
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May 31, 2018 01:25
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:They gave explicit numbers for her beam. At full ramp-up (which she can achieve at longer range than before, and against shields without losing ammo) it is as powerful as max charge Zarya beam. plus she has pharah rockets for her alt fire it's a powerful, flexible kit
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May 31, 2018 01:31
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Did they do something to Ana? Unscoped shots are not hitting teammates.
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May 31, 2018 02:15
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We Know Catheters posted:Did they do something to Ana? Unscoped shots are not hitting teammates. Are they at full health?
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May 31, 2018 02:16
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hobbesmaster posted:Are they at full health? No they weren't and it wasn't registering for some reason.
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May 31, 2018 02:26
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We Know Catheters posted:No they weren't and it wasn't registering for some reason. the change to darts passing through full health teammates wasnt enough. add a buzzer sound if you spam heal a full health rein safe inside his shield while your team dies around you imo
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May 31, 2018 02:37
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Minrad posted:no one tilts like baston, no one throws like baston, nobody else is as far from the payload as baston bastion's last name is not "Shimada"
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May 31, 2018 02:42
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Symmetra being this beacon of fun is really weird to me. She's got no movement abilities, her ult is entirely passive, her turrets recharge super slowly and her shield is pretty poo poo. Compare that to like, Winston who can jump around the map, slamming people everywhere.
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May 31, 2018 09:21
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Cleretic posted:My concern isn't that Symmetra will be less useful, my concern is that she'll be less fun, that I'll have lost the reason I was interested in the game in the first place (yes, I did straight-up buy the game for a single hero). Play her when she's on the PTR and report back with your opinion then.
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May 31, 2018 14:02
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dogstile posted:Symmetra being this beacon of fun is really weird to me. She's got no movement abilities, her ult is entirely passive, her turrets recharge super slowly and her shield is pretty poo poo. yea symmetra's really unfun to me because she basically doesn't do anything. torb's kinda the same but at least he can aim
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May 31, 2018 14:03
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Probably because she is the closest thing to a Wolf Spider in Overwatch- you set-up your trap, and then jump people with turrets and your auto-lockon electric chainsaw of doom. Some people dig that. Mei's gameplay isn't that different either.
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May 31, 2018 14:22
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Teaming up with a roadhog as symmetra is hella fun, especially if the other team is a disorganized mess that refuses to peel
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May 31, 2018 15:37
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dogstile posted:Symmetra being this beacon of fun is really weird to me. She's got no movement abilities, her ult is entirely passive, her turrets recharge super slowly and her shield is pretty poo poo. I like tricking people into getting killed by the 200 hp lady with no movement abilities/1 HP stationary objects. It's the same reason I played Pyro for fun in tf2 but switched to basically any other class when I wanted to win. I'm also the kind of nerd that liked running around the map in Killing Floor welding doors shut in the middle of combat, so managing sentries/stationary ults works for me. I'm willing to let some of those things go in order to make her good though. It's frustrating to see people ragequit the moment I pick Symm in comp, even on defense.
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May 31, 2018 16:21
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Played with a Symm guy the other night on Rialto attack. Everyone was, fairly politely, "what the hell?" at his pick (I've noticed an uptick in people hilariously picking symm or torb or whatever other situationally-inappropriate hero in order to create stress in setup before switching to an appropriate hero, which, lest I've not already mentioned it, is just an absolute scream and not something that people should be beaten to death for - but in any case, that makes such conversations more complicated). He assured us that he understood our concerns but that he was really good with Symm. And he was. Knew exactly where to be all the time to maximise his own effectiveness. Opposing team flanks just failed over and over, we had teleporters and shields and it was all rather good. For some reason he didn't play symm on defense. That guy had his own game going on, I don't even know.
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May 31, 2018 17:32
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highmodulus posted:Probably because she is the closest thing to a Wolf Spider in Overwatch- you set-up your trap, and then jump people with turrets and your auto-lockon electric chainsaw of doom. Some people dig that. Mei's gameplay isn't that different either. I disagree--the best part about playing Mei is doming people with icicles, which you can also do from range. Freezing them first is just icing on the cake.
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May 31, 2018 19:04
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Perfectly Safe posted:For some reason he didn't play symm on defense. That guy had his own game going on, I don't even know.
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May 31, 2018 20:35
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Petra is super fun imo
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May 31, 2018 20:57
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On lower skill levels people will absolutelly lose their poo poo dealing with a defence Symmetra, more so if they are one of the usual all DPS and no tanks or healers squads. People who have never repeatedly fried Genji while they try to reflect your death beam are missing out big time.
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May 31, 2018 22:07
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First point of Rialto on attack is fantastic for Pharah btw
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May 31, 2018 23:18
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The hardest part of getting top 500 in death match is getting to 50 games played
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Jun 1, 2018 02:43
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Perfectly Safe posted:Played with a Symm guy the other night on Rialto attack. Everyone was, fairly politely, "what the hell?" at his pick (I've noticed an uptick in people hilariously picking symm or torb or whatever other situationally-inappropriate hero in order to create stress in setup before switching to an appropriate hero, which, lest I've not already mentioned it, is just an absolute scream and not something that people should be beaten to death for - but in any case, that makes such conversations more complicated). He assured us that he understood our concerns but that he was really good with Symm. And he was. Knew exactly where to be all the time to maximise his own effectiveness. Opposing team flanks just failed over and over, we had teleporters and shields and it was all rather good. You can tell a good Attack Symmetra by the way that their enemy's back line and attempts to flank just disintegrate. She's good on defense, but when everything's set up she's frankly stunning in her ability to catch people unawares and melt them. Symmetra's pretty unique in general, but I would say that her best comparison is actually Sombra; they both want to flip small, localized areas of the map and are very good at picking stragglers off in the herd, but struggle a little more when the teamfight condenses.
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Jun 1, 2018 05:03
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Someone explain to me how I’m getting pure solo kills that pop up at 100 but somehow don’t register in my killcount in deathmatch? I loving loathe deathmatch modes in games that are clearly meant to be team-based.
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Jun 1, 2018 05:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Someone explain to me how I’m getting pure solo kills that pop up at 100 but somehow don’t register in my killcount in deathmatch? Uh, don't play it? If you suicide you lose a kill from your count. If it's a true solo kill with you as the last blow then you'll get it. More likely some tracer scum clipped the last bit off you.
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Jun 1, 2018 05:59
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afaik the 100 just means that you did damage equal to or exceeding their max health. so them healing during the fight can give you 100% kill assists
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Jun 1, 2018 06:05
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Cleretic posted:You can tell a good Attack Symmetra by the way that their enemy's back line and attempts to flank just disintegrate. She's good on defense, but when everything's set up she's frankly stunning in her ability to catch people unawares and melt them. Meh, she was basically either engaged in anti-flank or menacing the enemy front line from behind rein's shield. It helped a lot with getting that extra few metres on the payload because people were disinclined to get in Rein's face with a symm there. As far as I can tell, she wasn't flanking or going for the enemy back line overly much. Her value add was that the opposing team's Tracer and Reaper (if memory serves) didn't really know what to do. Had they flexed then I think we would have had a harder time - I can't see that setup being so effective against pharah or junk or doomfist - but inflexible opposing team + symm with gamesense and a plan = win.
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Jun 1, 2018 13:06
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 gonna miss this
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Jun 1, 2018 13:42
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Got some ideas for the next patch: make the Sym rework super OP, half all Support cooldowns, allow multiple chars again, double all of Moira's healing, triple all Offense char cooldowns, add some variants of Hanamura to the map pool, and make the matchmaking algorithms a lot more liberal. I have other games to play but damnit OW I can't quit you
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Jun 1, 2018 16:04
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Phobophilia posted:
good news friend-- you get this every 100 levels from here on out but with flashier and flashier borders
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Jun 1, 2018 16:08
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