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fisting by many posted:What does the cable look like coming in overhead? Code dictates there should be a "drip loop" of a certain length (I think 750mm?) outside your mast so that rain runs to the bottom of the loop and falls off. If there is little or no slack, the rain will run along the cable and down inside your service entrance. Thanks! I took a look at the mast, and it's got a decent drip loop hang, though there's no conduit and it's just the bare cable with a head attached. I wound up buying a brick of electricians putty and sealing up all the corners, around the meter head, the top connection, etc. There were a few places that looked particularly culpable, so I'm hoping this will do the trick for now, until I can replace the box itself. A bit concerned because I can see traces of rust in the breakers themselves, in the on/off window. At least the AFCI/GFCI breaker should let me know if it floods again. If the putty keeps things dry in the breaker panel, I should know whether meter box needs replaced for sure. Can anyone recommend a good wire tracer? I need to map out all the wiring in this house and properly identify all the breakers. I'd also like to use a tracer to see if I can figure out where and how the wiring is run upstairs from the basement, so I can run an additional line for a bathroom heater. Plus, it'd help me sort through the rats nest of vestigial wiring that's accumulated over the last hundred years and rip out the unnecessary stuff. I was initially looking at th Triplett Fox and Hound 3388, but it looks like Home Depot doesn't carry it anymore. Should I just go ahead and order it off amazon, or is there anything else I should be looking at in that price range? Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 13:17
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kid sinister posted:Yep, that silvery woven NM looks to be from the right era for solder and rubber tape. FYI, if you ever do have to undo those, solder is very soft. You can just untwist them with pliers. However, I'm not sure that plastic box is up to code, regarding cable clamps, box fill and knockout covers... Yeah, I want to have an electrician come in and rewire the whole house. If that was the obvious stuff, who knows what's hidden. ausgezeichnet posted:You in Michigan? That looks exactly like some of the bubba-fied electric I had in the attic of a rental building in SW Michigan. Same mix of plastic, metal, old-NM and Romex... and solder and wire nuts. I'm in Hawaii, so it was very hot up in that old attic. I must have sweated out at least a gallon of water. Went through three shirts soaking wet.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:11
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OSU_Matthew posted:Can anyone recommend a good wire tracer? I need to map out all the wiring in this house and properly identify all the breakers. I'd also like to use a tracer to see if I can figure out where and how the wiring is run upstairs from the basement, so I can run an additional line for a bathroom heater. Plus, it'd help me sort through the rats nest of vestigial wiring that's accumulated over the last hundred years and rip out the unnecessary stuff. Circuit tracers are for determining which breaker a particular box or device is on. They aren't useful for making maps. Think about it: if you used a circuit tracer, you would keep having to walk from the panel to each box to move the tone generator. That is a zillion trips. It would be easier to turn off a breaker, grab a notepad, walk around the house and writing down what breaker number "X" turns off. So do you want to run a new circuit for this bathroom heater? There's no need to place it near existing lines. You have to remember, existing lines were almost certainly ran when the studs were exposed. I'd recommend using an interior wall that is completely in line from the basement to the floor that bathroom is on. Try to use a wall with a closet on the first floor, just in case you need to open the wall to help run the cable up to the next story. Be careful ripping out old wires. They might still be live. You probably don't want to do that unless you are absolutely sure that you know where both ends of that cable are and that the cable is also disconnected at both ends. Nobody likes unexpected shocks and/or fires. The Gardenator posted:Yeah, I want to have an electrician come in and rewire the whole house. If that was the obvious stuff, who knows what's hidden. Hold on a sec before replacing everything. That box honestly doesn't look that bad. All of the wires are stapled nice and professional going into that box. It's very possible that in the old days, punching holes in a plastic box was all you needed codewise with cables stapled that nearby. I don't know what the deal is for that extension ring on top that is the wrong size, but that could all be easily corrected. I'd replace the box with a steel one, some plastic NM knockout clamps, wire nuts and maybe an extension ring. Make sure you label where all the wires go before you ripping out the old box. In fact, NM from the 1950s with a silver, woven outer sheath like that was the first NM I know of to potentially include a ground wire. You might even be able to upgrade to 3 prong outlets of you don't already have them. Been there with hot attics. Buy everything you need the day before and do your work at 4 AM. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 20:15
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kid sinister posted:Circuit tracers are for determining which breaker a particular box or device is on. They aren't useful for making maps. Think about it: if you used a circuit tracer, you would keep having to walk from the panel to each box to move the tone generator. That is a zillion trips. It would be easier to turn off a breaker, grab a notepad, walk around the house and writing down what breaker number "X" turns off. Well, the house was built thirty years before electricity came to the area, and the wiring has undergone several iterations since then, so I'm hoping I can do exactly that and figure out what everything is and where it goes. Slightly less than half the breakers I can positively identify, and I'm completely clueless as to what the other ones could even belong to. My plan for the new wiring was to see if I could follow the route from an existing line and use that as a guide for where I can run new line from the basement to the attic, which would let me drop it down exactly where I need it to go to add a heater, overhead lighting and ceiling fans, and disconnect/move receptacles off the floor and onto the wall in several bedrooms. I'm not looking for a breaker finder, but a toner so I can trace where the existing wiring runs and get it all labelled, mapped, and sorted. Like this, I think it goes to the doorbell, though several of the leads are just clipped and bare:  But it's also connected to what I presume is a shutoff for an old furnace:  Which I don't even know what it does, but it runs through this:  Which is the accumulated clusterfuck of several Direct TV and Time Warner cable installations. If there's one thing this house is not lacking, it's coax. Glorious, obsolete coax every-loving-where. Most of it is disconnected, but the connection for my cable modem literally runs into the basement, back out the other side of the house, up along the roof to a defunct satellite dish, back down and into the basement, back out the side of the house, and back in twenty feet away 
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Nov 3, 2015 04:26
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That is certainly a doorbell transformer, though I have no idea about anything else.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:33
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OSU_Matthew posted:Well, the house was built thirty years before electricity came to the area, and the wiring has undergone several iterations since then, so I'm hoping I can do exactly that and figure out what everything is and where it goes. Slightly less than half the breakers I can positively identify, and I'm completely clueless as to what the other ones could even belong to. It's possible that you may have breakers not attached to anything. Have you ever taken the panel cover off? It's legal to leave breakers in the panel that aren't attached to anything, just to fill up the hole in the panel. Those are usually marked "spare". The other option is to use a plastic bezel that snaps in to fill the hole. Seconding doorbell transformer. As for that disconnect, that might be for an air conditioner. Are the coils nearby outside?
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Nov 3, 2015 18:35
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gently caress me I just removed a wired smoke detector and the pins on the back of the detector shocked me while it was disconnected from mains power. I can't tell if it was a charged capacitor inside the detector or a stepped up voltage from the internal battery but gently caress it hurt. That's horrible design.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:56
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Shaocaholica posted:gently caress me I just removed a wired smoke detector and the pins on the back of the detector shocked me while it was disconnected from mains power. I can't tell if it was a charged capacitor inside the detector or a stepped up voltage from the internal battery but gently caress it hurt. That's horrible design. That'd be a capacitor. It's doubtful any kind of internal battery would have enough voltage to shock you.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:44
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Safety Dance posted:That'd be a capacitor. It's doubtful any kind of internal battery would have enough voltage to shock you. Yeah, that's probably it but even a AA can shock if the voltage is stepped up. Ever touch one of those insect swatters? Anyway what a poo poo design with protruding pins and a big cap on the input.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:21
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Well not sure if this is the thread or not but one of my 8 Nest Protect Gen2s decided it no longer speaks. Took Nest 2 hours over the phone to figure out the unit needed replacing. So instead of taking 15min to exchange it a home depot I'm doing them a favor by sending in the defective unit so they can debug their code. I should have asked for 2 Protects. I don't think the unit was physically defective, probably bad code somewhere but can't be reset either.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:26
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Shaocaholica posted:Well not sure if this is the thread or not but one of my 8 Nest Protect Gen2s decided it no longer speaks. Took Nest 2 hours over the phone to figure out the unit needed replacing. So instead of taking 15min to exchange it a home depot I'm doing them a favor by sending in the defective unit so they can debug their code. I should have asked for 2 Protects. I don't think the unit was physically defective, probably bad code somewhere but can't be reset either. I've heard of nothing but problems with the Nest Protects. Are the 2nd generation ones any better?
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Nov 10, 2015 20:31
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kid sinister posted:I've heard of nothing but problems with the Nest Protects. Are the 2nd generation ones any better? I wouldn't know, this is the first I've had them. From the teardown, it seems like their guts is overkill for what they do but 8 of them cheap with a 15% coupon from HD. The motion sensor night light is nice although I wish the light were warming in color. And the 3 included energizer ultimate lithiums rated for 10yrs is nice. I'll be an old man before I have to change the batteries on these. Supposedly Nest can push firmware updates to them if they are connected to the internet without any user notification. Not sure if I like that.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:35
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Shaocaholica posted:Well not sure if this is the thread or not but one of my 8 Nest Protect Gen2s decided it no longer speaks. Took Nest 2 hours over the phone to figure out the unit needed replacing. So instead of taking 15min to exchange it a home depot I'm doing them a favor by sending in the defective unit so they can debug their code. I should have asked for 2 Protects. I don't think the unit was physically defective, probably bad code somewhere but can't be reset either. Nest products appear to not do their core function as well as the corresponding 'dumb' device, which makes them a questionable replacement at the moment.
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Nov 11, 2015 01:23
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Qwijib0 posted:Nest products appear to not do their core function as well as the corresponding 'dumb' device, which makes them a questionable replacement at the moment. The one thing I didn't like about a basic detector was that my place was hooked up with intercommunication across 8 detectors so if one of them catches a wiff of smoke or co, the whole house gets to hear 8 detectors going off and they're not all that spread out either. I think the Nest is better in this particular case but its a specific scenario. Plus I get 8 nifty motion sensor night lights.
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Nov 11, 2015 01:33
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Shaocaholica posted:Yeah, that's probably it but even a AA can shock if the voltage is stepped up. Ever touch one of those insect swatters? Anyway what a poo poo design with protruding pins and a big cap on the input.
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Nov 12, 2015 03:51
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Am I safe from fires if I make my fireplace out of plaster?
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Nov 12, 2015 16:42
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Trogdor_666 posted:Am I safe from fires if I make my fireplace out of plaster? Like the WHOLE fireplace box n all, or just the front? Also this is the wiring thread that's averse to any types of fire.. not the Don't burn down your house with fire
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Nov 12, 2015 16:49
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I ordered a Belkin Wemo Wall Switch to go along with the Amazon Echos I got. I'd like to put it in the bedroom. However, it's not designed for 3-way circuits, which if I'm correct, means that a light (or light + outlet in this case) that's controlled by two switches is a no-go. I'd be willing to remove the functionality of the lesser-used switch (especially since the whole thing will be controlled by voice with the echo) if that's possible and not a huge amount of work. Is this a thing that can happen? Any good guide on it? If not, I'll use that switch elsewhere, but I'd prefer it to be there.
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Nov 15, 2015 21:38
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shortspecialbus posted:I ordered a Belkin Wemo Wall Switch to go along with the Amazon Echos I got. I'd like to put it in the bedroom. However, it's not designed for 3-way circuits, which if I'm correct, means that a light (or light + outlet in this case) that's controlled by two switches is a no-go. I'd be willing to remove the functionality of the lesser-used switch (especially since the whole thing will be controlled by voice with the echo) if that's possible and not a huge amount of work. Is this a thing that can happen? Any good guide on it? Yeah, that's possible, depending on how your 3 ways are wired up. Your main problem is that those fancy switches require a neutral wire. Some but not all older 3 way wiring methods will have a neutral wire at each switch box. Code requires all switch boxes to have a neutral now, but not in the past.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:17
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kid sinister posted:Yeah, that's possible, depending on how your 3 ways are wired up. Your main problem is that those fancy switches require a neutral wire. Some but not all older 3 way wiring methods will have a neutral wire at each switch box. Code requires all switch boxes to have a neutral now, but not in the past. House was built in 93-94 so maybe? I've dug around in them before to do other stuff (close some of them up for hue lights in the basement, replace messed up switches, etc) and I recall there being a neutral. Edit: When I get this on Tuesday or Wednesday I'll post a picture of the wiring. ssb fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 00:23
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Maybe not. That code requirement for neutrals came in 2006 I'm almost certain.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:19
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Very unlikely for a 3way switch, since basically everybody was just coloring the neutral to act as a traveller anyway.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:46
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I'll pull it open whenever it shows up and post a few pictures. If it won't work there, then it won't work there and I'll put it somewhere else. I have a few other places where it'd be handy to yell at Alexa about the lights, the bedroom would just be obviously the most convenient.
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Nov 16, 2015 05:04
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shortspecialbus posted:I'll pull it open whenever it shows up and post a few pictures. If it won't work there, then it won't work there and I'll put it somewhere else. I have a few other places where it'd be handy to yell at Alexa about the lights, the bedroom would just be obviously the most convenient. Now that I think about it, if you're going to disable 3 way switching and put in a regular switch, then you will probably be able to put in your Wemo. Here are all the 3 way wiring diagrams. As long as you don't have option 5 with that /2 cable going from the light to the first switch box, then you should be able to swap your existing wires around and make it work. Depending on your existing wiring, you may have to do a switch leg. Here's a diagram for how to do a code-legal switch leg now:  Oh, and you might need to cap off a red at both ends. Don't forget to buy a blank faceplate. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 17:38
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kid sinister posted:Now that I think about it, if you're going to disable 3 way switching and put in a regular switch, then you will probably be able to put in your Wemo. Here are all the 3 way wiring diagrams. As long as you don't have option 5 with that /2 cable going from the light to the first switch box, then you should be able to swap your existing wires around and make it work. Depending on your existing wiring, you may have to do a switch leg. Here's a diagram for how to do a code-legal switch leg now: So I think what's going to happen here is I'm going to disassemble it and take pictures when it's light enough to do so with the power cut. Right now there's 2 switches that together control the ceiling light as well as an outlet. I'm happy to disable one of those switches as it's barely ever used in order to get light/outlet control onto the WeMo. I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow before it gets dark.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:31
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shortspecialbus posted:So I think what's going to happen here is I'm going to disassemble it and take pictures when it's light enough to do so with the power cut. Right now there's 2 switches that together control the ceiling light as well as an outlet. I'm happy to disable one of those switches as it's barely ever used in order to get light/outlet control onto the WeMo. I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow before it gets dark. Uhhh... It might not be legal to disable that outlet. There actually is code regarding max outlet spacing along walls. You would ultimately also need to figure out a way to power that outlet, switched or not. Also, do you have any equipment for testing to see which wires are energized, like a circuit tester or a multimeter? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 05:32
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kid sinister posted:Uhhh... It might not be legal to disable that outlet. There actually is code regarding max outlet spacing along walls. You would ultimately also need to figure out a way to power that outlet, switched or not. I have a multimeter somewhere I think. The situation in this room is it's a bedroom with a switch to control the ceiling fan light + a single outlet by the room entrance, and about 15 feet away there's another switch by the bathroom door and patio door which controls the same. I'd be willing to disable the switch by the bathroom/patio doors as it's rarely ever used. If it'd be violating code, then it's absolutely a no-go. I'm not going to do anything that does that. I'm not considering disabling outlets, just switches. Maybe that's what you meant. Photos, kinda lousy - let me know if you want better angles: Secondary switch that I'd consider disabling. The other switch you can see in there is for the patio light:     Edit: This particular switch has no other connections in the junction box, just the single romex or whatever coming and all 3 wires from the switch go into that romex. There's only a ground coming out of the romex that doesn't go into that switch. Main switch that I'd like to replace with the Belkin WeMo switch if possible. The other switch you can see is a rotator thingy for the ceiling fan:     Edit: This is the switch that seems to go other places, there's a few other romex's wire nutted on as you can kinda see. I can try to pull wires in the box out a bit if anyone wants. Edit 2: Here's a slightly better picture of the wiring in the switch I'd like to replace: 
ssb fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 23:03
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Edit: The question I put here was dumb. Instead have a picture of spaghetti. Again, the switch I'd like to replace. Dangly guy on the right is the fan speed selector: This is probably a dumb idea and I should either hire someone who knows what the gently caress they're doing or I should just put the loving switch somewhere else. Edit 2: For what it's worth, this is a single family dwelling out in the country about 1.5 miles from the nearest village about 20 miles outside of Madison, WI. ssb fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 23:18
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You're in luck! You'll be able to do what you want. The last picture was good, but it cut off the stuff on the left. Spread out the wire nuts like you were and take a picture of the entire box, wires, nuts and switches. Make sure you get that cable in the back bottom left that's barely sticking into the box. Also, how do you want that outlet powered after this: switched or always on? You know, you might even be able to use that other switch to control the outlet from now on, if you'd like. Also, get yourself like 3 feet of single 14 gauge wire, either green or bare. You'll need to ground those switch frames, including the other ones in those boxes. That's another code requirement that changed since your place was built. Get some wire nuts too, small ones since they'll only be covering a single 14 gauge wire. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 00:43
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kid sinister posted:You're in luck! You'll be able to do what you want. The last picture was good, but it cut off the stuff on the left. Spread out the wire nuts like you were and take a picture of the entire box, wires, nuts and switches. Seriously? That's awesome, if you're correct and there's not a problem hidden away in there! As for the outlet, switched on the WeMo would be best. We have a lamp on it because the ceiling fan light is pretty dim. For the ground, there's a ton of bare copper in each box wound up. You can kinda see it. Do I need more than that, even? I have a whole fuckton of wirenuts. I can't take a picture at the moment because my wife came home, made me close everything up, and is taking a nap in there right now. Edit: I guess in these boxes there actually isn't as much free ground. I'll pick up some 14AWG bare or green on the way home tomorrow 'cause it's cheap as gently caress.
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Nov 19, 2015 00:46
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shortspecialbus posted:Seriously? That's awesome, if you're correct and there's not a problem hidden away in there! As for the outlet, switched on the WeMo would be best. We have a lamp on it because the ceiling fan light is pretty dim. Yes, you'll need more. That isn't a "ton of bare copper in each box". You're forgetting that that isn't one long strand, but several shorter ones. You'll need about 8 inches for each device in that box. Trust me. If the wires are too short, you'll have a hell of a time trying to stuff all the devices back into the box at the same time. With long wires, you can do them one at a time. As for a dim ceiling fan, if it doesn't take specialty bulbs, get some CFLs for it if they'll fit under the glass. They're a great way to "cheat" regarding a fixture's max wattage. "60 watts max"? Let's stick a 200W equivalent CFL in there! kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 00:55
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kid sinister posted:Also, get yourself like 3 feet of single 14 gauge wire, either green or bare. You'll need to ground those switch frames, including the other ones in those boxes. That's another code requirement that changed since your place was built. Get some wire nuts too, small ones since they'll only be covering a single 14 gauge wire. You need to have grounding runs for switch frames attached to a (grounded) metal box?
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Nov 19, 2015 01:07
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Hubis posted:You need to have grounding runs for switch frames attached to a (grounded) metal box? If they're self grounded, no. Most switches aren't self grounding though. Also, those boxes are plastic.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:16
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kid sinister posted:Yes, you'll need more. That isn't a "ton of bare copper in each box". You're forgetting that that isn't one long strand, but several shorter ones. You'll need about 8 inches for each device in that box. Trust me. If the wires are too short, you'll have a hell of a time trying to stuff all the devices back into the box at the same time. With long wires, you can do them one at a time. I was referring to other boxes I've opened up in the house, which indeed did have about 1 or more feet of coiled ground wire in the back, hooked up to nothing. I assumed these did as well since I didn't look closely, but it's not the case at all. That was a bad assumption on my part. As far as the ceiling fan, it takes those stupid candelabra bulbs. I've already replaced them with LED bulbs. All the bulbs in the house that can be are LEDs of some form, with Hue lights in the entire basement. I could try to find brighter candelabra bulbs I guess.
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Nov 19, 2015 05:58
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60W equivalent or higher LED candelabras in a higher Kelvin rating should do the trick. Problem is the newer LED's that are compact do not have the same life expectancy as the larger LEDs with the heat sinks. I recently had this problem and put in 60W CFL candelabra bulbs. I think the bulbs were around 5000 Kelvin.
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Nov 19, 2015 09:36
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shortspecialbus posted:As far as the ceiling fan, it takes those stupid candelabra bulbs. I've already replaced them with LED bulbs. All the bulbs in the house that can be are LEDs of some form, with Hue lights in the entire basement. I could try to find brighter candelabra bulbs I guess. If you got the room under the glass, get some socket adapters for regular bulbs. I've done that before with ceiling fans that took weird size bulbs.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:09
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What's the likelihood I'm going to get nuisance trips if I put a disconnected-ground GFCI on the outlet for my gas stove and fridge? It's currently a two-prong outlet, and I'm doubtful that the old BX going to the box has a grounding strap (though it could, I haven't yet popped the outlet out to check).
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Nov 19, 2015 21:41
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minivanmegafun posted:What's the likelihood I'm going to get nuisance trips if I put a disconnected-ground GFCI on the outlet for my gas stove and fridge? How old is your fridge?
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Nov 19, 2015 21:43
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kid sinister posted:How old is your fridge? Beats the hell out of me, it came with the house. If I was to guess... ~10-15 years old?
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Nov 19, 2015 22:04
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minivanmegafun posted:Beats the hell out of me, it came with the house. If I was to guess... ~10-15 years old? 15 and oder is about when you may start having issues with nuisance trips. I'd suggest checking if the outlet box is grounded. It very well may be. If so, put in a standard outlet and ground it to the box.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:11
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