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I feel like from the text of the ARR Warrior quests, if the Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar "experiment" had succeeded MRD would have diverged into Dark Knight and they would have made it a DPS. The way Gorge refers to his Inner Beast at first almost feels like the Darkside.
Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 22:48
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I know it’s just a gameplay thing but it’s worth noting re: blm that when we play NPCs like y’shtola or g’raha or Nyelbert, their black magic explicitly does not work like our black magic, in that they do not have astral/umbral stances or the constant enochian upkeep.
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Jun 20, 2021 22:52
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Hogama posted:She's not as proficient as the Warrior of Light but Lalai is wearing BLM exclusive gear, too. For real one of the reasons I like BLM is that you just interact with a bunch of beast tribe people who are all just people who know about black magic like they're just people It was a nice undercurrent of friendship to that story
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Jun 20, 2021 23:00
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I know it’s just a gameplay thing but it’s worth noting re: blm that when we play NPCs like y’shtola or g’raha or Nyelbert, their black magic explicitly does not work like our black magic, in that they do not have astral/umbral stances or the constant enochian upkeep. I think part of that is a conceit of the Soul Crystals themselves. With the exception of MCH for obvious reasons, every Soul Crystal is etched with the memories and experience of the previous wielders, and then you build on that as you come into your own. Using MCH as an example, for gameplay purposes we may have the same animations and abilities, but when the time comes for our characters to pass them on to the next generation, the person who inherits my MCH crystal is going to learn a different style from the person who inherits yours.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:07
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I might be getting this wrong, but anyone can teach anyone to do any job, just our soul crystals are the ones from legendary figures (except for BLU and MCH). Like the DRG one being special about dragons is just for our soul crystal. But you could teach anyone to use their aether to do super-cool dragoon jumps, and they could imprint onto a soul crystal. Or something. MCH's quests shows you can just forge new soul crystals whenever you want.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:08
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Kinda feel sorry for whoever gets our soul crystal and feel compelled to do a backflip every time they fire a gun. I don't recall other MCHs doing that quite so much.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:09
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Zomborgon posted:Kinda feel sorry for whoever gets our soul crystal and feel compelled to do a backflip every time they fire a gun. The MCH NPCs use the old animations, which were a lot less extra.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:34
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Yeah, job crystals seem to be like skillsofts in cyberpunk except you actually do eventually learn that stuff. If you wanted to become a 'natural' Astrologian it would take you eight years of post graduate work.
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Jun 21, 2021 00:39
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So I had always inferred after 5.2 that the reason for the no-two-primals rule is because primal summoning, as taught by ascians, is just a for-half-souls version of proper creation magic, and as such is accessing whatever splintered parts of the concept matrices stored in whatever shard's version of anyder. so the time lahabrea invented ifrit, the convocation put that in a matrix, which is a physical object underwater that gets accessed every time the ascians teach someone with notions about a fire god how to summon
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Jun 21, 2021 01:18
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Mister Olympus posted:So I had always inferred after 5.2 that the reason for the no-two-primals rule is because primal summoning, as taught by ascians, is just a for-half-souls version of proper creation magic, and as such is accessing whatever splintered parts of the concept matrices stored in whatever shard's version of anyder. so the time lahabrea invented ifrit, the convocation put that in a matrix, which is a physical object underwater that gets accessed every time the ascians teach someone with notions about a fire god how to summon I don't think you can do that because Azem had to physically jack the Ifrita concept in order to summon her to save Grapesland.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:27
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think you can do that because Azem had to physically jack the Ifrita concept in order to summon her to save Grapesland. so: quote:Ifrita. A manifestation of concentrated fire aether. I could see what Azem was planning: transform the volcano's aether into Ifrita, draw her away, and then destroy her elsewhere. This would safely disperse the excess. Of course, the plan required someone to procure the concept of Ifrita for Azem. But if that someone was not Lahabrea himself, who else could it be? this wasn't a gundamjacking like zenos-shinryu or a counter-summoning, it was checking ifrit out of the library and doing one summoning to do the eden thing. totally holds up with that framework.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:37
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I think it’s kinda hosed up that aether is life force, derived from dead souls, and that everyone is just using dead souls to power everything in Eorzea. Maybe the Garleans are the only good people, considering their power comes largely from ceruleum (and it’s source isn’t revealed, but it was rendered inert by black rose). It’s better than turning the souls of their dead neighbors into fireballs or culinary skills or whatever? E: like a bunch of mecha-romans conquering a world full of very creative necromancers? jokes fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 01:42
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Mister Olympus posted:so: The point is that Ifrita is a physical object and even someone who has the right to access it has to physically carry that object to the place where he wants to use it. People can't be remotely accessing that object now, because that's not how it works.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:43
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I would quibble that the story isn't specific about whether the checking out really is physical or more of an authorization, especially given the concept matrices we see in-game are huge unwieldy things the size of aetherytes, but this probably won't be fully clarified in the future either
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Jun 21, 2021 01:49
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jokes posted:I think it’s kinda hosed up that aether is life force, derived from dead souls, and that everyone is just using dead souls to power everything in Eorzea. Maybe the Garleans are the only good people, considering their power comes largely from ceruleum (and it’s source isn’t revealed, but it was rendered inert by black rose). It’s better than turning the souls of their dead neighbors into fireballs or culinary skills or whatever?
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Jun 21, 2021 01:52
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jokes posted:I think it’s kinda hosed up that aether is life force, derived from dead souls, and that everyone is just using dead souls to power everything in Eorzea. Maybe the Garleans are the only good people, considering their power comes largely from ceruleum (and it’s source isn’t revealed, but it was rendered inert by black rose). It’s better than turning the souls of their dead neighbors into fireballs or culinary skills or whatever? Ceruleum is just aether oil. Here’s a good summary of all the in game lore entries in ARR. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comm...ossmf&context=3
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Jun 21, 2021 01:53
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jokes posted:I think it’s kinda hosed up that aether is life force, derived from dead souls, and that everyone is just using dead souls to power everything in Eorzea. Maybe the Garleans are the only good people, considering their power comes largely from ceruleum (and it’s source isn’t revealed, but it was rendered inert by black rose). It’s better than turning the souls of their dead neighbors into fireballs or culinary skills or whatever? Everything is aether, though. Life force is aether, yes, but so is everything else. It's like how basically everything in the real world is powered by some kind of energy. Ceruleum is also aether. Garlemald isn't any less reliant on 'life force' than anyone else, they just get it from magic oil rather than other sources.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:55
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Primals are explained in one the Shadowbringers short stories: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/tales_from_the_shadows/sidestory_04/ Primals are engendered creatures that end up with a soul, so recreating them after they end up in the lifestream requires that same soul.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:55
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jokes posted:I think it’s kinda hosed up that aether is life force, derived from dead souls, and that everyone is just using dead souls to power everything in Eorzea. Maybe the Garleans are the only good people, considering their power comes largely from ceruleum (and it’s source isn’t revealed, but it was rendered inert by black rose). It’s better than turning the souls of their dead neighbors into fireballs or culinary skills or whatever? Aether is literally everything. Observing that we use aether to power everything is no more significant than shouting "everyone is stardust!" in the real world. I mean kinda yeah but also not in a way that matters.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:58
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I think re aether as a resource, besides the obvious food cycle stuff, one has to assume that the economy of Zodiark's lifestream as a planet is more like Spira than The Planet, where you can and should take from it freely to keep things from getting backed up. Since the term "lifestream" is used though I can see where it'd raise a red flag because the entire thing with 7 was "do not under any circumstances use the lifestream for personal convenience," but that doesn't cross-apply to every FF planet
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Jun 21, 2021 01:59
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e: ^^^^^ vvvvvvv yeah that actually makes a lot more sense, I’d much rather prefer that perspective on it all and won’t be arguing aether food cycle is hosed up I don’t think ceruleum has been strictly identified as aether though? The existence of aether and its identified origin is kinda hosed up in a lot of ways, and eating any food in FF14 is kinda like eating meol. jokes fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 02:03
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you should also in most cases read "aether" as "atoms." like yeah we got the same hydrogen molecules in us as in that thing you eat. sure is both hydrogen. if the soul ends up as part of human biology it probably has some of that in it too y'shtola can distinguish the paintings on the wall because the atomic composition of paint is different from that of rock, she sees substances but not details within the substance
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Jun 21, 2021 02:04
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jokes posted:e: ^^^^^ yeah that actually makes a lot more sense, I’d much rather prefer that perspective on it all and won’t be arguing aether food cycle is hosed up NThanalan sightseeing log: “To power their legions of war machina, the Garleans require a steady supply of the aether-based fuel known as ceruleum.”
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Jun 21, 2021 02:10
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Goddammit e: Gotta say, I fuckin' love that they have an explanation of like everything somewhere and that in a lot of ways it's a failure of the player in exploring the world to not be aware of it, not because it's not discussed. Obviously sometimes that's not the case but gently caress FF14 is fleshed out. jokes fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 02:11
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jokes posted:e: ^^^^^ vvvvvvv yeah that actually makes a lot more sense, I’d much rather prefer that perspective on it all and won’t be arguing aether food cycle is hosed up
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Jun 21, 2021 03:13
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The game's also drawn a difference recently between a soul and life force, and is treating the soul as far less violate than your life essence. Yes it's confusing, don't think too hard about it because the game doesn't seem you to want you to because that kind of granularity is secondary to the stories involving these ideas.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:27
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i find the story is infinitely more enjoyable if you replace every instance of "aether" with "anime" - i am waiting for a plug-in that does this automatically
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Jun 21, 2021 03:39
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Jetrauben posted:I'd assume our Fray Problem is largely because we're unconsciously using Creation magic to make an Esteem from our own issues? All Dark Knight skills run off emotion, if you constantly give in to your darkest impulses they'll eventually take over and kill you and everyone around you. We mastered it before that can happen but we're also "self-taught" in a way so no NPC Dark Knight uses the darkside abilities like we do. It's why if you ask Syd about Fray/Myste he's just like "I have 0 clue what that was all about but I'm here if you want to talk" because everyone who had an actual mentor was told not to do any of that. I just think it's a neat detail.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:50
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Ironslave posted:The game's also drawn a difference recently between a soul and life force, and is treating the soul as far less violate than your life essence. Souls are made out of aether, but they're structures that need aether to manifest in Hydaelyn, just like anything else. Souls are basically an intangible organ that acts as the vessel for somebody's mind, presumably.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:10
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I imagine Sharlayan etc. can't detect the ineffable Soul bit but can detect microminfilias of aether very easily, so they understand the latter but not the former. I think these concepts tend to get blurred together when you're talking about mysterious energy fields, but we have definite evidence they're not the same thing, given our entire hustle to get the Scions out of the First.
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Jun 21, 2021 06:12
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Jetrauben posted:Souls are made out of aether, but they're structures that need aether to manifest in Hydaelyn, just like anything else. Souls are basically an intangible organ that acts as the vessel for somebody's mind, presumably. See, that's how it seemed all the way through the game until Shadowbringers started getting into the idea of reincarnation, the Ardor, and the Pixies. Shadowbringers has since positioned souls as separate from someone's personal aether (sort of). But it also uses aether synonymously with soul, sometimes, which makes it kind of confusing. Shadowbringers fiction has pretty much codified Primals as having souls that manifest within aether attuned to people's thoughts hence their variation but also their uniqueness, the Pixies draw a distinction in that their schtick is being souls that had aether coalesce around them to the point that some new soul inherits Titania's aether and memories but not their soul, and the entire point of the Ardor is to reunite fractured souls by just smashing worlds back together which seems to be doing more than just turning all of existence into an aether slurry and injecting it back into the Source given that the WoL could fuse with Ardbert specifically because Ardbert was part of the same being. It's complex and a little clearer than the difference between the rift and literal space (and whether there's one at all), but it's still very much more about the idea of there being an intrinsic element of who a person is which is carried on regardless of what form it comes to reside in rather than it just being a life energy you have. Despite there being an actual stream of life energy beneath the planet which is also what souls flow through.
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Jun 21, 2021 07:12
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I wonder if this is a case where it's clearer in the Japanese, because I suspect there are subtly different terms for "your general magic juice" and "your like, Christian-style soul." Just look out if they start also separating out the Heart.
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Jun 21, 2021 07:38
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It’s worth mentioning that in Tales from the Shadows that even in Amaurot, souls were viewed as essentially miraculous formations of aether that could not be deliberately produced. They Just Happen and defy classification, even to Amaurot in all its glory.
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Jun 21, 2021 07:54
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Rand Brittain posted:Hm, how common are the jobs? All of the classes are common (Lancer, Marauder, etc), but most jobs are rare. From least common to most common: Dark Knight: there are only two known Dark Knights in the whole world by the time the game begins: You and Sidurgu. White Mage: there are only 4 white mages in the whole world: the three Padjali siblings, and you the WoL. Scholar: there are less than half a dozen Nymian scholars (who summon fairies) in the whole world: the WoL, and the 3 or 4 Tonberry NPCs from the Scholar questline. Monk: the Monk order was near completely wiped out by King Theodric, which is what started the Ala Mhigan civil war. Red Mages: was extinct up until the Ala Mhigan civil war happened. 13 Resistance fighters discovered a hidden cache of Red Mage job crystals and used them, becoming known as the Crimson Duelists. However, by the time Stormblood happens, all of the Crimson Duelists except X'rhun Tia and Lambard have died. Lambard betrayed the Crimson Duelists, killed his former comrades, and taught Lovro red magic. Lovro then went to Bozja and taught a small handful of other Bozjan resistance members how to perform red magic. So, as of right now, there might be less than 5 Red Mages alive in the whole world (including you, the WoL). Dragoon: there are only 13 or 14 Dragoons at any given time. The WoL becoming a Dragoon is a highly unusual event that causes a stir in Ishgard. Estinien is pretty much the only other Dragoon we get to meet (Alberic is retired). You see a couple nameless dragoon NPCs early on in the Moogle questline and that's it. Ninja: very rare outside of Hingashi. The Ninjas we see in game are descended from a ninja clan that migrated from Hingashi to Doma. Said clan was betrayed and nearly wiped out when Garlemald invaded Doma, and during Lord Kaien's failed attempt to overthrow the Garleans (leading to Yugiri fleeing with refugees to Eorzea). Paladin: the Sultansworn are the bodyguards of the Sultana. Is a small organization. As for free Paladins who aren't affiliated with the Sultansworn, there are only two in the whole world: yourself and Solkzagyl. Gunbreaker: depends on your definition. Almost all of the Blades of Gunnhildr are dead: the official guards of the queen were killed off when Bozja was conquered by Garlemald and when the citadel was nuked. And then almost all of the Bozjan Resistance Blades of Gunnhildr are killed off during the Bozja storyline. There are still many people who use gunblades, but they don't possess the job crystal or weren't taught by Bozjans. The Gunblade is the weapon of choice for Garlean officers ranked Centurion and above. Summoner: was rediscovered recently and you teach the Immortal Flames the summoning job, and they found their own small little Summoner squad, so presumably more and more summoners are being trained. The Machinist job has created recently and is gaining popularity in Ishgard. The job trainer cuts new job crystals and hands them out and a gun to anyone who wants one. Warrior: seems to be common among the fringe areas of the world (Hellsguard Roegadyn villages up in the mountains, Xaela tribes on the Azim Steppe, etc). Blue Mage: The Wahlaquee tribe practices Blue Magic, so there are at least a few hundred Blue Mages in the New World. Martyn only sold a handful of Blue Mage job crystals. There are maybe a couple dozen Blue Mages running around in Eorzea. Samurai: common throughout Doma and Hingashi (and maybe Nagxia).
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Jun 21, 2021 08:11
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Nessus posted:I wonder if this is a case where it's clearer in the Japanese, because I suspect there are subtly different terms for "your general magic juice" and "your like, Christian-style soul." Just look out if they start also separating out the Heart. "So that's ba and ka accounted for- wait where's his sheut?"
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Jun 21, 2021 08:16
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Moofia Boss Val posted:All of the classes are common (Lancer, Marauder, etc), but most jobs are rare. bard erasure
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Jun 21, 2021 08:17
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FAUXTON posted:bard erasure I have Bard and Black Mage at level 70 yet but I haven't done their questlines past the first quest in which you get the job stone. Waiting until I cap them before I do the rest of the story.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:19
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Moofia Boss Val posted:Gunbreaker: depends on your definition. Almost all of the Blades of Gunnhildr are dead: the official guards of the queen were killed off when Bozja was conquered by Garlemald and when the citadel was nuked. And then almost all of the Bozjan Resistance Blades of Gunnhildr are killed off during the Bozja storyline. There are still many people who use gunblades, but they don't possess the job crystal or weren't taught by Bozjans. The Gunblade is the weapon of choice for Garlean officers ranked Centurion and above. You absolutely wouldn’t call the garleans gunbreakers by any definition because aside from the obvious National and ideological differences, garlean gun[weapons] are completely mechanically different than bozjan gunblades, being essentially mundane weapons with ceruleum-powered projectile weapons bolted on with varying levels of finesse, while bozjan gunblades use stored aether charges for various purposes and aren’t really projectile weapons at all.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:20
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:You absolutely wouldn’t call the garleans gunbreakers by any definition because aside from the obvious National and ideological differences, garlean gun[weapons] are completely mechanically different than bozjan gunblades, being essentially mundane weapons with ceruleum-powered projectile weapons bolted on with varying levels of finesse, while bozjan gunblades use stored aether charges for various purposes and aren’t really projectile weapons at all. Isn't ceruleum just highly condensed aether in liquid form? We see two different types of Garlean gunblades: the gunblade Gaius has (which is a sword with a gun bolted on), and then we see the two handed sword that Regulus, Messalla, and Varis use (Varis is so huge he wields it one handed), which is most certainly not like what Gaius uses. The main purpose of the ceruleum/powder component is to not shoot projectiles, but to instead cast abilities (like Bozjan gunblades).  Only difference is that this has a gas tank instead of a revolver. Moofia Boss Val fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 08:25
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Moofia Boss Val posted:I have Bard and Black Mage at level 70 yet but I haven't done their questlines past the first quest in which you get the job stone. Waiting until I cap them before I do the rest of the story. There's a lot of skills/spells unlocked with those quests, so I hope you haven't actually tried to play those in dungeons or stuff.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:27
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