|
Cacafuego posted:This is pretty much how I’ve done it the last couple times. Then wait for inevitable “why?” or “what can we do to keep you?” calls. Note that “treat me better” or “pay me much more” do not result in you being treated or paid better. I turned in my resignation on Monday and the only response I got was "I'm sorry to hear that"  Then my boss went and cried to HR that the 3rd week of my 3 week notice was me just burning all my vacation time because the handbook was vague on whether or not I'd get that cashed out.
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 16:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 16:26 |
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:I know there's no good time to resign* but it feels like I've picked a real killer of one as it's end of FY and there's an org shakeup, my manager is about to go on holiday and they're sorting out year end compensation and reviews. That's specifically if you will be getting a fat chunk of change all at once and not a piddly raise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:But still, awkward given the big list of positive feedback in the review. "Powerful Two Hander has a massive knowledge of the area of the business and is a proven valuable resource for any business or technical queries. Unfortunately not valuable enough for us to hire help or increase their pay, so half-assed compliments will have to suffice" FTFY
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 16:50
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:I am leaving to pursue my dream of not working here it's this, why mess with the GOAT
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
Coco13 posted:The formal and succinct letters are good, but I'd wait until any year-end bonus hits your bank account before resigning. You might still get it if you resign, but balance that risk against having to haggle for your old company to give you money. We call this "bonus and bounce" where we work. You have to be employed on the date bonus is paid, or no bonus. There are a lot of resignations that come in the Friday after we get paid our bonus.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
All useful, and yes the letter part will be short. What I suspect will happen (and I already told the recruiting HR will probably happen) is that my manager will ask why etc. and will keep a poker face pretty well, but will immediately push to his manager who will be more active in trying to convince me and to "think it over". Then it will start pinging round the business areas and I might start getting called by all sorts of people. If the date's set it's set but I wouldn't be surprised if HR hide the actual confirmation of the "letter" in their process to delay by a day or two. The emotional blackmail will probably start the next day. The other side's HR said "call us and let us know, we do this all the time, from both sides". skipdogg posted:We call this "bonus and bounce" where we work. You have to be employed on the date bonus is paid, or no bonus. There are a lot of resignations that come in the Friday after we get paid our bonus. That would be the end of May which is why they're paying a sign-on bonus equivalent to my last year's bonus.....which would be the absolute maximum I could expect because our compensation situation this year is loving dire. BOOTY-ADE posted:FTFY Yeah today I got told there needed to be a plan on how to address a very specific problem in the next 3 weeks or we'd potentially get fined into oblivion or banned from operating in a major country. That would be $billions, and yet hire people? Keep pace with market rates? Absolutely not. Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:00
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:If the date's set it's set but I wouldn't be surprised if HR hide the actual confirmation of the "letter" in their process to delay by a day or two. I assume you're in an "at will" employment country, so the date HR "accepts" the resignation doesn't matter. You can send them a resignation that says "I'm leaving EOD today, peace out fuckers" with a clear conscience because they can (and would) certainly do the same exact thing to you. If you're not "at will" or you have a contractual reason to stay for a certain number of days after resignation notice being confirmed, then I feel for your plight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:14
|
|
|
Good-Natured Filth posted:I assume you're in an "at will" employment country, so the date HR "accepts" the resignation doesn't matter. You can send them a resignation that says "I'm leaving EOD today, peace out fuckers" with a clear conscience because they can (and would) certainly do the same exact thing to you. Nope, it's a 3 month notice period per my contract. I forgot what that actually explicitly says about resignation, I should probably look that up if I can even find it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:17
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:Nope, it's a 3 month notice period per my contract. I forgot what that actually explicitly says about resignation, I should probably look that up if I can even find it. uhh yeah
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:uhh yeah It's actually in the standard policy docs not the contract so it sort of doesn't matter ("such conditions as may be updated from time to time" etc.), but anyway I knew it was 3 months but interestingly it only references providing written notice, nothing about their process to accept it. I literally signed that contract 15 years ago, god knows what in it has been superseded by now. E: ha my original contract just says "see the current version of the employee standards book which we may amend at any time". Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:31
|
|
|
My slightly problematic dotted-line employee just resigned which nicely solves a problem I was trying to deal with. She is super smart and I wish her well, just not as part of my team. I applied for a new position at this company last week which if I get it will come with a 6-month notice period. Insane.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 18:55
|
|
|
Yeah pretty sure a contract that says “refer to non controlled cocktail napkin” isn’t going to hold up in any legal sense. Though you’re trying to technically do it by the book I suppose so professional of you, so you can feel good about yourself. PS your current place does not care how you feel about yourself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:E: ha my original contract just says "see the current version of the employee standards book which we may amend at any time". That's not legally binding. Feel free to entirely ignore that. You are at-will.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
Motronic posted:That's not legally binding. Feel free to entirely ignore that. You are at-will. Nope, UK. And anyway I'm pretty sure when I got my last proper promotion in 2015 (I think? gently caress that's a long time ago) I had to sign an update that formally set the notice period to 3 months. I don't mind too much about that. I have two weeks holiday unused that I can take and I fully intend to take that as a break. gently caress that "leave Friday start Monday" stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:Nope, UK. Ohhhhhh....yeah, that's a whole other thing. Sorry, I assumed US. You actually get something of consideration out of that - a modicum of job stability/can't get fired for any or no reason on the spot. Not the case in the US.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
The advice I give people looking to switch jobs is to be absolutely selfish about it when it comes to interviews, resignations, etc. Look out for #1 (yourself). Usually we are conditioned to think about what's best for the team, company, whatever and it's natural to think about whatever projects or products you're working on and what teams you're working with and how things are going to go after you leave, but that is just continuing to put other people ahead of yourself. Especially if you're trying to get out of a bad environment. It's not a bad thing to think about 'the team' if you're in a good job, but when it's time to switch, you have to put yourself first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 22:42
|
|
|
#1 don't do something that may impact what people think about you. Resigning with no notice? No problem. Resigning while calling everyone assholes, no go. I encountered someone who was a cousin of someone I worked with 5 years ago 1500 miles away. You never know who you'll meet and how many degrees of separation there are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
Resigning with no notice is kinda lovely without a real good reason. I'd burn someone from working for me/my company if they did that. Giving a two week is fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
In the UK having a contract that refers to the employee handbook is pretty standard, but it does mean that you have to check when they make changes... 3 month notice is standard, a lot of companies will put you on gardening leave immediately if you are going to a competitor or direct customer/supplier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2023 23:58
|
|
|
Motronic posted:That's not legally binding. Feel free to entirely ignore that. You are at-will. Powerful Two-Hander posted:Nope, UK. [...] I'm pretty sure [...] I [agreed to] formally set the notice period to 3 months. I feel like I'm the thread   on this topic but no one should take employment law advice from this thread. This thread is only moderately worse the r/legaladvice when it comes to employment law. Which, when it comes to early decision making advice, is basically the easiest kind of civil law. Yet still constantly wrong! It is amazing how consistently the advice given is one or more of:
If you're in the US the correct plaintiff side employment law advice is: just call 2 lawyers near you, it is free.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 00:13
|
|
|
Tnuctip posted:Yeah pretty sure a contract that says “refer to non controlled cocktail napkin” isn’t going to hold up in any legal sense. From experience, it most certainly does, and can, unless what's being referred to in the handbook isn't enforceable ('no married females over the age of 35' or whatever). For example, so that updates to the company's IT policy don't mean that everyone gets a new contract to review and sign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 00:16
|
|
so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
|
spincube posted:From experience, it most certainly does, and can, unless what's being referred to in the handbook isn't enforceable ('no married females over the age of 35' or whatever). For example, so that updates to the company's IT policy don't mean that everyone gets a new contract to review and sign. Different legal systems and all, but in the US things in a handbook that is referred to by your contract simply aren't enforceable as anything other than your continued employment. And only to the extent in which is is actually both legal and not exceeding relevant codes and regulations. In the context of this discussion, if you want to quit and it says you have to do a bunch of stuff that's just not a thing that is required and there is no recourse for the company. If it says a you have to do a bunch of stuff "or else you don't get this valuable thing" (like severance, etc) then that's fine. Don't do that thing don't get that thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 00:23
|
|
|
Yeah to be clear the three month bit is completely clear/known/standard for the level (same at the new place), what is not explicitly clear is whether the date is "the date you submit your resignation" i.e. send an email saying "I resign" three times to the HR department, or the date they "process" it. It's kind of not important as it's a day or two tops, but will be interesting to find out. Even the recruiter was like "yeah they might do that". CancerCakes posted:In the UK having a contract that refers to the employee handbook is pretty standard, but it does mean that you have to check when they make changes... I think I got myself removed from the "has sensitive info and must be sent on gardening leave" list unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Different legal systems and all, but You just cant stop spewing incorrect employment law advice even when specifically called out on it. Amazing. I numbered the elements of your post for easy reference. The situation you purport is a huge "it depends". IMO these broad brush strokes are very likely to lead to people making bad decisions if they listened to you. Here's a fairly common situation where every inference you make is either incorrect or has been interpreted by a fed judge to be incorrect in a similar circumstance. IANAL but I have seen this situation or something very close occur multiple times. I'm interpreting [2.1] to state that you believe employee handbooks are only enforceable as a basis for continued employment. Once someone gives notice, they cannot be construed as a contract that limits actions post the termination of employment. This is (e: "probably") not correct in the below example. A Florida "operations manager" joins a medical practice in the state of Florida in Jan 2009. [✓ 1.0] Their employment onboarding documents entitles them to $65k/yr salary, a performance bonus paid in Mar of each year and lists them as at-will. It subjects them to terms of the employment handbook as a condition of continued employment. [✓ 2.0] The operations manager signs a document acknowledging receipt of the handbook. The handbook enumerates several sections which are clearly marked by paragraph headings, plain language, and drafted in accordance with relevant local and federal laws and regulations. [✓ 2.2] The handbook appropriately clarifies that it is superseded by the onboarding documents. At the time of employment and continuing through the duration the handbook contains an arbitration clause which states that if the operations manager quits or is terminated for cause, they're subject arbitration for any claims arising from their employment. [✓ 3.0/3.1] The handbook states the the bonus is discretionary and lists excessive absences as a basis for a reduction or withholding of your bonus. [✓ 5.1/5.2] The operations manager is having a lot of anxiety related to their job requiring them to work a lot of overtime and informs their manager over lunch of this Nov 2010. Their boss seems empathetic but doesn't do anything to remedy the situation. The operation manager takes some time off around this time for the holidays and to try to relieve their anxiety triggered by the overtime of the job. In Feb 2011 the operations manager sues the medical practice in the Middle District of Florida, claiming they were misclassified as exempt, working overtime, and are thus entitled to unpaid overtime and liquidated damages under the FLSA and lists discrimination and retaliation claims as well. Around the time the Mar 2011 bonus is due, the operations manager is informed that for  performance reasons related to their late 2010 absences, their bonus is reduced by 50%. [✓ 5.1] In Apr 2011, the operations manager quits. In Jun 2011 the defendant moves to stay the case seeking to enforce the arbitration clause of the handbook. For [2.1, 4.0, 4.1] to be true, a judge would have to deny the motion to stay, however I have seen judges grant a motion and force arbitration in this circumstance. Here I'm arguing that arbitration is recourse in and of itself. I could find analogous situations where the recourse is what you were likely thinking of i.e. monetary (pay us $X) or injunctive (can't work within Y miles or for competitors) but I'm making the point that you cant concept of the permutations of employment situations so you shouldn't state your bad opinions as gospel. For [5.0-5.2] to be true the arbitrator, judge or jury would have to find that the withholding of the bonus wasn't retaliation. IME it's fairly likely they will find that it WAS retaliation. Likely enough IMO that any defense attorney worth their salt is going to advise their client to put the bonus amount on the table for settlement negotiations. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you are a US worker needing employment law advice in the USA, most US plaintiff-side employment attorneys will meet with you for free and represent you on a contingency basis. EDIT: This piqued my interest so I looked at some cases and some other situations where the employee handbook's terms or clauses become relevant and potentially enforceable outside the employment timeframe included: misappropriations of IP/trade secrets, revealing the true employer (who to sue?), providing relevant (and thus "enforceable") definitions to the case such as what "full time" means, as supporting evidence of complying (or not) with government regulations for federal employees related to security clearances, the list goes on. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Mar 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 02:02
|
|
|
CarForumPoster posted:
This. Funny enough my mom is looking to leave her job and is going over the specifics of her NDA/non compete / garden leave (us) and has in fact retained a law firm specifically geared towards that. This is the way
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
Iron Crowned posted:I turned in my resignation on Monday and the only response I got was "I'm sorry to hear that" My current boss spent an hour or so shooting the poo poo with me talking about this. They had spent fifteen years in government service and retired on the exact day they got fifteen years, when the next whatever double bonus sweet pension level kicked in. Except they really retired at fourteen years and fifty weeks, because they didn't read their employee handbook, gave four weeks notice, and took the last two of those weeks off. hosed themselves over something fierce. Apparently lawyers are involved but it's been a few years since and they don't have a resolution.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
Scrum posted:TO: <10,000 employee DL> Please remove me from this distro, thank you in advance. Kind regards
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
Happy Monday! 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 12:53
|
|
|
My team’s Monday morning reporting requires waking up early to beat the glut of scheduled jobs that slows our system to a crawl. Our emails often go out before people sign on and turn off their OOO from the prior week, so there are a number of people I only “know” through their frequent OOOs. At least I know which team to shoot for if I want to take more time off.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Manager in another department has been on a very loud call about some stupid mistake that happened over the weekend and like, wow. This is the least important poo poo ever. I mean yeah sure it's sorta important for his role in the company but in the grand scheme of things, holy poo poo it's all so inconsequential. It's just making me depressed listening to the passion and the sheer amount of attention into something that matters so little. There's probably a German word for that or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 13:57
|
|
|
Renegret posted:It's just making me depressed listening to the passion and the sheer amount of attention into something that matters so little. Caring about your tiny little fiefdom is less German and more Liechtensteiner, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
Fitting because I made an inconsequential mistake (which I fixed immediately) on Friday and I’m expecting my manager will take up an hour of my time today to explain to me that “all of us make mistakes it’s totally understandable but also don’t make mistakes we cannot tolerate mistakes”.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
dpkg chopra posted:Fitting because I made an inconsequential mistake (which I fixed immediately) on Friday and I’m expecting my manager will take up an hour of my time today to explain to me that “all of us make mistakes it’s totally understandable but also don’t make mistakes we cannot tolerate mistakes”. Sounds like our IT management team. "We need to be faster and more effective and deploy more changes more quickly, but also we are adding another five layers of paperwork to the process and if you gently caress up at any point we will fire you. Anyway get going!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
Renegret posted:Happy Monday! Thank
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
Renegret posted:There's probably a German word for that or something. Bike Shedding? Or, sorry. Bikkenshedden?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:42
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:Bike Shedding? Or, sorry. Bikkenshedden? I wouldn't say it's bike shedding, what he's talking about is actually his job. It's just, his job isn't important, and if him and his entire department fell off the face of the planet, the world wouldn't even notice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 14:48
|
|
|
Renegret posted:It's just, his job isn't important, and if him and his entire department fell off the face of the planet, the world wouldn't even notice. folks say this about risk management all the time it's great
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 15:39
|
|
|
hannibal posted:The advice I give people looking to switch jobs is to be absolutely selfish about it when it comes to interviews, resignations, etc. Look out for #1 (yourself). Usually we are conditioned to think about what's best for the team, company, whatever and it's natural to think about whatever projects or products you're working on and what teams you're working with and how things are going to go after you leave, but that is just continuing to put other people ahead of yourself. Especially if you're trying to get out of a bad environment. It's not a bad thing to think about 'the team' if you're in a good job, but when it's time to switch, you have to put yourself first. Biggest thing here to remember with the bolded is that unless you're in a position to oversee/manage a lot of people, you're just another cog in the machine. When it comes to "at will" employment, 2 weeks is a courtesy when they can fire/lay off without even having to give notice or reasoning. When it comes down to it, "thinking of the team" should only happen when you plan to keep in contact with former colleagues when you leave - gently caress bad management & gently caress bootlickers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
Powerful Two-Hander posted:Sounds like our IT management team. "We need to be faster and more effective and deploy more changes more quickly, but also we are adding another five layers of paperwork to the process and if you gently caress up at any point we will fire you. Anyway get going!" This made my eye start twitching. Same thing where I work. We need to move faster, don't be afraid to fail, we have a blameless culture. Here's mountains of paperwork to slow you down, and boy howdy if you gently caress up we're going to make it so painful for you with weeks of post mortems and reviews that you'll wish we fired you. You won't get fired here, but you almost wish you were if it's bad enough. I"ve got to get back to my change control paperwork now and brace myself for up to 3 different change board meetings and hope these get approved so I can maybe do 15 minutes of work this week
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 16:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 16:26 |
|
|
One nice thing I like to do when one of my calls ends early is to say "OK, everybody gets 3 minutes back!" Judging by their chuckles, the attendees appreciate it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 16:32
|
|
