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Yeah I don't think there's anyone here who has a problem with the idea of Tony having a redemption arc, the problem is the execution. Tom forgot to include the, uh, redemption.
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Jun 4, 2022 09:27
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He also forgot to include the Tony. When was the last time he was in the strip for any noticeable event?
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Jun 4, 2022 09:30
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Yeah I don't feel there were any plans of having Tony as an antagonist at any point or that he would've fallen into that role had he continued to appear in a more prominent sense. For a while he was portrayed as an antagonist, but this was ultimately subverted by dumb poo poo like the chapter where Annie asks for Renard and he just gives him back and the chapter ends, or all the profuse manpain seeping out of his pores and the adults around Annie attempting to desperately explain how he's a good person actually and it's just her specifically who will never be able to connect with him ever. In a different story by a different author, maybe, but here? It's pretty clear he was always meant to be a tragic and sympathetic figure whose problems are treated as an impossible-to-overcome biological hurdle, a hurdle that will forever be causing his daughter emotional damage by his fundamental inability to see her as her own singular human being. Foreverially anxious and miserable, seeing his daughter in the shadow of his dead wife and hating it, yet unable to ever take responsibility for it.J.A.B.C. posted:He also forgot to include the Tony. When was the last time he was in the strip for any noticeable event? Tiny Myers fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 09:37
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Tiny Myers posted:dumb poo poo like the chapter where Annie asks for Renard and he just gives him back and the chapter ends That one was pretty funny tho
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Jun 4, 2022 10:37
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Count Uvula posted:That one was pretty funny tho
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Jun 4, 2022 11:18
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I don't know if I agree with calling ethics and morals a "technology", but I get it that Renard put it that way to drive home a point to Kat. Anyhow, that isn't the point I want to make, so I'd rather not debate semantics. People saying the panels on the latest page 2632 don't flow, I can see it. However my interpretation is Renard just poked a huge hole in Kat's weird take on things in the last few pages, and after seeing the expressions on both Kat and Annie's faces while Annie holds on to Renard, Annie's misinterpretation is just her trying to do some damage control on the fly while perhaps accidentally trying to give an idea of her own. I've definitely done the "reword the argument between two friends in order to lighten the mood" more then a few times before. Annie's just missing the point quite a bit and inserting some of her own opinions which probably isn't helping as much as she thinks it is. But maybe it will work because who knows lately, or it's just crazy jumping around to make story point stuff and I'm giving too much credit.
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Jun 4, 2022 12:52
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Jun 5, 2022 22:14
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They used to be the two smartest people in the comic.
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Jun 6, 2022 09:52
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I guess this okay???
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Jun 6, 2022 10:16
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This seems so manic and confusing.
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Jun 6, 2022 12:58
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I am glad Annie cares as little about Jerrek's various affections as I do.
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Jun 6, 2022 13:02
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Apparently this art AI comes from the Zimmyverse: https://twitter.com/ai_curio_bot/status/1533642627576471554
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Jun 6, 2022 13:35
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GunnerJ posted:I am glad Annie cares as little about Jerrek's various affections as I do. And the final nail is hammered into the coffin of 'she was lying to Jerrek to trick Loup' - looking back, this makes the bit where Annie explains Omega just, incredibly bad. Loup was bad but Jerrek has been significantly worse, between that scene and the whole alley sexual peril thing. Can we go back to Loup? I promise I'll stop complaining about Loup. Also, justice for Lana, she was a lot of fun for a little while there.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:24
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I'm mostly just baffled as to how trickster spirit Reynardine, best known for tricking Ysengrin into hurting himself and second-best known for being tricked into killing a friend of his and being imprisoned for the better part of two decades where he remains to this day, isn't even remotely suspicious of any of this.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:53
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the chapter title is still called "Snare," i'm clinging to the belief that it's going to be relevant beyond that quarter-assed attempt to annoy loup earlier
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Jun 6, 2022 18:56
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Joe Slowboat posted:And the final nail is hammered into the coffin of 'she was lying to Jerrek to trick Loup' - looking back, this makes the bit where Annie explains Omega just, incredibly bad. maswastaken posted:
Niavmai posted:
Darth TNT posted:
Tenebrais posted:
Donkringel posted:Yea. Why the hell would a court robot know about the aether? Jerrek is frankly too well learned for a robot. Once you add in his "amnesia" it's clear he isn't who he says he is. Niavmai posted:
YaketySass posted:if this isn't the ol' Surma trick this comic has gone even more off the deep end than I thought Lt. Lizard posted:At this point, I simply can't see this chapter as anything else than Annie knowing Yerek is Loup and baiting/manipulating him. If it the whole thing turns out to be something else, than I guess it will be my turn to lose all faith in the writing. Oxxidation posted:even with all my earlier griping I feel like homer chasing the pig right now Skippy McPants posted:Seriously. If this isn't some kind of bait and Annie's interaction here is 100% sincere then I think that's my cue to exit. And of course, Tiny Myers posted:That said, I think she's definitely baiting him. Note how she's reacted to any of this - which is to say, not at all. Annie isn't immune to blushing or being embarrassed, but she's all smiles and calmness even at her hands being forcibly grabbed by a boy who visibly has a crush on her. Her expression is way too consistently serene. 
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Jun 6, 2022 19:22
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sighs and throws hat on the ground
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Jun 6, 2022 19:27
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I’m glad we are finally leaving the bargaining phase.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:48
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I'm not, it's way more fun than the other phases!
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Jun 6, 2022 19:52
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M-maybe Annie does know Jerrek is Loup and she is playing her cards so close to her chest that she's not telling anyone, not even Kat and Reynardine? For once taking advantage narratively of the fact that we are no longer privy to her thoughts? Please?
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Jun 6, 2022 21:31
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Let me sink in my copium
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Jun 6, 2022 23:15
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Sometimes I wonder what ChibiSoma would think of this plotline.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:56
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Oxxidation posted:the chapter title is still called "Snare," i'm clinging to the belief that it's going to be relevant beyond that quarter-assed attempt to annoy loup earlier Maybe it's a reference to the chapter of the same name from Worm, and there will be a loving homage!
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Jun 7, 2022 04:54
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isasphere posted:M-maybe Annie does know Jerrek is Loup and she is playing her cards so close to her chest that she's not telling anyone, not even Kat and Reynardine? That would still fall flat at this point. If you're going to do a turnaround like that, you need to mislead the audience so they're pleasantly surprised when the whole thing turns out to have been a trick. The thread has already had time to notice something was off, say, "I know what's really going on!" and then realize that no, actually, nothing is going on.
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Jun 7, 2022 06:04
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worm girl posted:That would still fall flat at this point. If you're going to do a turnaround like that, you need to mislead the audience so they're pleasantly surprised when the whole thing turns out to have been a trick. The thread has already had time to notice something was off, say, "I know what's really going on!" and then realize that no, actually, nothing is going on. Once the thread fully embraces that there is no trick, THEN the trick will land even harder!!!!
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Jun 7, 2022 06:26
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The double-double-double cross, where you make your audience think something's up, then they think your comic is bad, then they think something's up again, then they think it's bad again, and THEN you hit them with it  Can't wait for it to zoom out and Tony to be sitting by a monitor. He addresses the audience, "...And that's why an enclosed simulation of everything would be bad. Because life would become very tepid and boring and one dimensional." And it pans out to show the audience is a deeply horrified Kat who has been watching this whole thing simulated on Tony's iMac.
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Jun 7, 2022 07:12
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Tiny Myers posted:The double-double-double cross, where you make your audience think something's up, then they think your comic is bad, then they think something's up again, then they think it's bad again, and THEN you hit them with it Tony starts being erased and we zoom out to Tea sitting at an artist's desk. She grins and says, "Ain't I a stinker?" and then the Looney Tunes end theme plays.
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Jun 7, 2022 07:48
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Tiny Myers posted:The double-double-double cross, where you make your audience think something's up, then they think your comic is bad, then they think something's up again, then they think it's bad again, and THEN you hit them with it
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Jun 7, 2022 11:47
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DontMockMySmock posted:Sometimes I wonder what ChibiSoma would think of this plotline.
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Jun 7, 2022 14:22
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Fecha posted:I would think that any threat to an "Annie/Kat end" wouldn't play well. But is Loup/Jerrek a more or less interesting male than what's-his-face from Sailor Moon? These are the questions that keep me up at night.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:48
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how loving dare you
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Jun 8, 2022 01:57
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Thinking about it, one of the worst possible (and still plausible) developments I can imagine would be an unironic and genuine romance between Annie and Loup/Jerek so I certainly hope that the comic is not hinting at it.
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Jun 9, 2022 11:36
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Here's Kat's invitation to anti Hogwarts. I can't imagine anything could actually compel her to leave Paz, Annie, and the New People behind, but I worry the conversation over the last few pages was a last minute effort to make it feel less contrived when she does.
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Jun 10, 2022 10:31
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Should have delivered it by tictoc and given her a nervous breakdown
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Jun 10, 2022 12:58
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"Kat is encouraged to go as a double agent to get intel on Omega but then starts drinking the koolaid" seems like it's not so much being hinted at as actively being screamed
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Jun 10, 2022 14:01
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CYBEReris posted:"Kat is encouraged to go as a double agent to get intel on Omega but then starts drinking the koolaid" seems like it's not so much being hinted at as actively being screamed Like, again with the missed potential, Kat's Tony Time has already shown her to be easily swayed from "ugh I hate that guy!!!!!!!" to "he's kinda funny and smart actually". If this hadn't been portrayed as Kat realising the truth about how awesome Tony really is then instead it plus how oblivious she is to how unstable Robot is would be a pretty good lead in to how her terrible judge of character/excessive willingness to forgive leads to her going full court native after being separated from her support group. But no Tony is just that cool and good.
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Jun 10, 2022 15:29
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Splicer posted:It works have worked better if they hadn't done the whole "hmm unfettered research you say" thing for a few pages. It's frustrating because I can see how this whole thing could be salvaged or reworked and fit in a way that feels better (to me at least.) Kat's expressed anger and anxiety about the aetheric forces being uncontrolled, unpredictable, and dangerous. And she's right. She's expressed disgust at how it seems like the Court can do what it pleases with no oversight or controls in place to avoid harming people. There's plenty of completely ungoverned aetheric entities with god powers and nobody around to stop them, too. Heck, one of them just took the neighboring forest and leveled a huge chunk of the place she's lived in her whole life. Some of the organized aetheric groups have rules governing them, but of the same kind of opaque red tape "dude trust me on this" variety as the Court's. As a basic starting premise, the Court's concerns with magic are valid. It's very hard to stop, predict, control, prevent and magic does endanger the lives of innocents. From their POV: Why should we believe that talking forest animals and characters from children's stories are trustworthy stewards of that kind of power? We [the Court] are governed by physical laws, by ethical and maybe legal standards of humans. We have limits and boundaries that magic constantly violates. It's a perfect wedge to drive between Kat and all of her friends and loved ones. There's even specific leverage available. Annie is destined to die if she ever has children. It's incurable with modern medicine. Tony tried. The aetheric nature of it could not be stopped. Why wouldn't the Court tell Tony that if they get Kat on their side, she could save Annie? And then Tony in turn could apply that pressure... Like nothing we've seen so far has demonstrated that the Court would do any better with that power, and most likely when they make a bid for it things are going to go very badly. However, that's all still feeding back into one of the main themes of the story, that magic/tech stuff is a false dichotomy.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:As a basic starting premise, the Court's concerns with magic are valid. It's very hard to stop, predict, control, prevent and magic does endanger the lives of innocents. From their POV: Why should we believe that talking forest animals and characters from children's stories are trustworthy stewards of that kind of power? We [the Court] are governed by physical laws, by ethical and maybe legal standards of humans. We have limits and boundaries that magic constantly violates. It's a perfect wedge to drive between Kat and all of her friends and loved ones. There's even specific leverage available. Annie is destined to die if she ever has children. It's incurable with modern medicine. Tony tried. The aetheric nature of it could not be stopped. Why wouldn't the Court tell Tony that if they get Kat on their side, she could save Annie? And then Tony in turn could apply that pressure... As it is now it's just... so limp. Kat wants to go to the court because there's no limits on experiments. What experiments? (emphatic shrug)
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Jun 10, 2022 21:27
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Tiny Myers posted:Yeah, this would make more sense. "Annie, I've been with you for years and all the etheric stuff you deal with just keeps trying to kill you and deceive you and straight up WILL kill you if you ever get pregnant. What if living in an area free of the ether would change that?" Yeah that's the frustrating part about this. There are a lot of valid reasons for Kat to go to the other court but the one we are given isn't one of them. It's just a complete 180 of everything we know about Kat. Though, I still think it's going to be a fake out to stir up drama before we figure out Kat's real reason for going much later. But if that's the case I wish he'd just play it straight cause I think this plot development would be interesting enough without needing to inject fake drama into it.
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Jun 10, 2022 23:19
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Tiny Myers posted:Yeah, this would make more sense. "Annie, I've been with you for years and all the etheric stuff you deal with just keeps trying to kill you and deceive you and straight up WILL kill you if you ever get pregnant. What if living in an area free of the ether would change that?"
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Jun 10, 2022 23:47
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