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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Jacks were such a constant problem when I was using circle I can barely conceptualize sending warpwolves into infantry anymore. I mean I get that, but I think High Reclaimer is arguably the best caster in the game right now and his infantry game is relevant.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:18
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S.J. posted:It ain't corner case against High Reclaimer, who you will be seeing. It doesn't solve the problem of him killing a few of his own Exemplars for feat later. Like, it's helpful to have against HR, but it doesn't solve the matchup as much as a lot of people seem to think.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:19
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S.J. posted:I mean I get that, but I think High Reclaimer is arguably the best caster in the game right now and his infantry game is relevant. Yeah I'm just saying why I have a huge blind spot on what may or may not be important because of that matchup. I've never even got to see him in action
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Jan 13, 2017 04:21
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CaptCommy posted:It doesn't solve the problem of him killing a few of his own Exemplars for feat later. Like, it's helpful to have against HR, but it doesn't solve the matchup as much as a lot of people seem to think. Well sure, of course. I'm not saying it turns into a slam dunk.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:57
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Blood Pack are still terrible, right? Theme force doesn't change that, so my Circle list stays in the closet until everything is cool and good from the errata process.
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Jan 13, 2017 07:14
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Going to try this tonight War Room Army Retribution of Scyrah - Rahn theme Theme: Forges of War 75 / 75 Army Effigy of Valor - Steamroller Objective Adeptis Rahn - WJ: +26 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Chimera - PC: 8 - Discordia - PC: 18 - Helios - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 26) - Chimera - PC: 8 House Shyeel Artificer - PC: 0 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 4 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 4 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 THEME: Forges of War --- GENERATED : 01/13/2017 07:26:07 BUILD ID : 2034.17-01-07
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Jan 13, 2017 08:26
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I love that winter guard cost less than kossites now btw Never should have got these kossites. I had some ideas about S&P and their elite cadre, but I've never once had them do anything.
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Jan 13, 2017 08:39
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gently caress. That rhulic theme is basically the worst type of thing they could have done. "You know how you currently only play Ossrum, one type of infantry and 'Jack spam? Yeah, ONLY EVER do that, if we ever release any new solos? Don't play them". Could they not have even said that one of the free things you can get is a unit attachment? The only one we have is for the high shields, and that still wouldn't have been good enough to warrant taking them, but would at least have meant you weren't deterred from taking them. gently caress.
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Jan 13, 2017 09:07
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!Klams posted:gently caress. That rhulic theme is basically the worst type of thing they could have done. "You know how you currently only play Ossrum, one type of infantry and 'Jack spam? Yeah, ONLY EVER do that, if we ever release any new solos? Don't play them". Yeah, they really did nothing to encourage anyone to take OAC, TAC, or highshields. The problem with rhulic infantry can't be solved by 2 inches of deploy. They got the exact same poo poo in mk2 with the pact bonus and that didn't result in anything but forge guard getting used (or sometimes 5-box TAC). Of the 3 mainline rhulic units only one of them is worth taking and for some reason all three have the same point cost so they can't even be differentiated that way.
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Jan 13, 2017 09:20
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I don't like these themes. Both Menoth themes we've seen so far are "take all the poo poo you usually do, but get 10 points of free solos and a extra ability". I had to make literally no adjustments to my standard Amon list to get the theme, but now I have 10 more points in my list. Ditto with my Thyra list. It feels like we're going down the same road as Mk2 themes - The themes that let you take the good poo poo you wanted to take anyway, but stack bonuses on top of that, will get taken, and will skew the difference between good and bad lists even more. The ones that encourage you to take weird, thematic poo poo will never be used. The restrictions that themes place on you should be much harsher, but the rewards should be bigger. I'm not even sure what the point of these is, from a game design perspective - Other than, "oh poo poo, Mk2 had themes, better knock out some themes". I understand giving each Merc subfaction themes, or doing things like the Cryx pirate theme. But themes like the Flameguard one, that let you take the core units of the faction, and only restrict a couple of units might as well not exist.
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Jan 13, 2017 11:30
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The only way i see it working is if every or nearly every army is supposed be a theme and its more about what bonuses you want. But they need more than a single theme out to have that dynamic and they're not going to come out fast enough
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Jan 13, 2017 12:44
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Geisladisk posted:I don't like these themes. 40k has formations, Warmachine needs themes!
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Jan 13, 2017 13:59
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*throws garbage can full of cryx models into a larger garbage can * +1 to a d3 to bring back lovely models I don't want on the table anyways. Free awful weapon crews for bringing these models! +1 to the starting roll so I can choose to go first and throw this awful match quicker because I made a list out of some of the worst models in my faction.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:03
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Yeah pretty much. And khador jackspam got a buff basically. Gonna agree with that other poster, thse themes overall feel pretty poorly thought out. It would be different if there was a min pts req for the sac pawn so you need to take a full boat + Joe in a karchev list, but overall it's pretty easy to abuse. The other themes are similar - either easy to abuse or doesn't deviate from the norm really, or is so outlandish and "design space" that it's almost insulting (looking at that dumb cryx theme specifically) wearing a lampshade fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 14:11
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My friend isn't sure losing Kell is worth 4" I think a rifle core with shield guard is good enough.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:16
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You can still take a marksman so it's not a total wash, but without the widowmakers too you're losing out on scalpelling cortexes early
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Jan 13, 2017 14:34
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Geisladisk posted:I don't like these themes. I lost a Hierophant from my Thyra list, but I'm still pretty sure it's straight better with the theme because it let me add a free Pyrrhus. Basically I agree with you that it seems like when PP is done rolling out everyone's themes there's going to be at least one that you'd be kind of a dummy not to take. Seems like a bad move to me.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:55
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I think ubiquitous themes could be interesting. It shaping your army as much as your caster. But that only works if they is enough themes and they are relatively worth the same. So it's probably going to suck.
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Jan 13, 2017 15:03
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Wasn't that roughly how it worked in mk2? Those weren't exactly great either - though tbf that was mostly a balance issue. Tier 4 strakhov was something like two trenches near your deployment or something iirc, which totally makes sense with a caster who wants to be as far up the board as possible. I'm fine with "generalist" tiers, but these seem to be all over the place in terms of restrictions vs rewards. wearing a lampshade fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 15:07
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Geisladisk posted:I don't like these themes. I sort of get this, but I've been re-educated about the Storm Division list. You apparently lose a lot of Cygnar support stuff, and also lock yourself into a scenario where it becomes very hard to hurt stuff in the mirror match, so it's not as slam dunk as I thought initially. And the Flameguard theme loses a decent amount of stuff people like taking in Menoth (kicky monk, vengers, Indrians, Zealots at least) so it's not a literal no brainer. I mean, I like both the Ret and Skorne themes, but you don't just take them automatically. Same with any of them out of this batch. Either you are altering your list to take advantage, or your list wasn't hyper-optimized to being with.
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Jan 13, 2017 16:12
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Thyra I think, and probably Amon, benefits the most from that theme as far as 'stuff I was going to take anyways'. We've got a really competitive Thyra player in the area who'd have to change his list up a bit for that theme but he's pretty okay with that.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:11
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I think ubiquitous themes could be interesting. It shaping your army as much as your caster. But that only works if they is enough themes and they are relatively worth the same. Also, some of the complaints about the Rhulic theme are weird to me. Yeah, most of their stuff is terrible, but does anybody actually want poo poo like High Shields to be fixed by themes instead of errata?
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Jan 13, 2017 17:41
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Well I'm going to try this in a friendly game soon Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points Theme: Winds of Death !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. (Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27] - Cyclops Raider [9] - Cyclops Raider [9] - Titan Cannoneer [17] Siege Animantarax [18] Venator Reivers (max) [15] - Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4] Venator Slingers (min) [8] Venator Flayer Cannon Crew [0] Venator Flayer Cannon Crew [5] Venator Catapult Crew [0] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4] Venator Dakar [4] Venator Dakar [4] Drown them in needleguns!  It may be less hoksune than swords but should be good for a laugh!
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Jan 13, 2017 17:49
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Just a reminder that I am selling my Menoth army, now with a price drop down to 50% of retail https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3805249
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Jan 13, 2017 18:45
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Not nearly as much fun now that everyone else has theme lists but here's a list I'm dojoing using one of the troll themes. Hoping to get it on the table Monday. Basic idea is that bouncer's animus lets the impaler's do real work and Calandra lets them fish for crits all day long. I'm not sure about the Shaman but I don't really have a better option there. Feedback appreciated. Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points Theme: The Power of Dhunia (Calandra 1) Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood [+27] - Trollkin Runebearer [0] - Troll Impaler [11] - Troll Impaler [11] - Troll Impaler [11] - Troll Impaler [11] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] Troll Whelps [0] Troll Whelps [0] Northkin Shaman [0]
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Jan 13, 2017 19:24
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Wizard Styles posted:I don't really like how PP is doing themes but at least they've already shown they're willing to errata them, so at least there's that. Well, since the first errata didn't touch the worst unit in mercs, I don't expect future ones to either.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:32
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chutche2 posted:Well, since the first errata didn't touch the worst unit in mercs, I don't expect future ones to either.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:02
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Spigs posted:Not nearly as much fun now that everyone else has theme lists but here's a list I'm dojoing using one of the troll themes. Hoping to get it on the table Monday. Basic idea is that bouncer's animus lets the impaler's do real work and Calandra lets them fish for crits all day long. I'm not sure about the Shaman but I don't really have a better option there. Feedback appreciated. I'm guessing you meant the Mauler's animus. Impaler spam is a cute idea that comes up regularly, but I don't see it ever being effective. If you want to have any decent range on those spears, you're giving up the hitting power Rage gives. So you're looking at Range 12 Pow13s. Not super scary, especially in a battlegroup heavy world. Range 8 Pow16 isn't awful, but you're now in threat range of basically anything. Set defense will not save them from retaliation, especially with no stone in the list.The crit effect is nice but even with Calandra you can't depend on it. The impaler just seems irrelevant in Mk3, outside of maybe smaller point games or MAYBE a caster that wants Far Strike for themself and you're squeezed for points. But that hypothetical list should probably have a Bomber, anyway. I do like double Mauler in the list. I think double Mauler is under utilized. They're so good for their price! Edit here's what I ran last week for Calandra POD: Conflict Chamber link Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points Theme: The Power of Dhunia (Calandra 1) Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood [+27]
Trollkin Runeshapers [9] Troll Whelps 0 Northkin Shaman [4] That's my first stab at it. I might play with taking Janissa instead of the Shaman next time. Fyrbrand fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 20:45
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Wizard Styles posted:They just overhauled an entire faction. They probably could have given High Shields and the OAC several buffs and it would have been fine even without any playtesting considering how bad they are, but they can't fix all the balance issues in the game in one go. They said they were looking at top 5% and bottom 5% of each faction. The only model in mercs to get an actual change was the ogrun bokur which didn't change its stats, only its availability. It didn't do anything for a merc list. So effectively mercenaries werre ignored by the errata. There's a difference between me expecting them to overhaul a faction, and me expecting them to change one loving model. Edit: I forgot, there were some changes to minions mercenaries, some of those got more expensive. Don't think anything got buffed. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 20:51
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chutche2 posted:They said they were looking at top 5% and bottom 5% of each faction. The only model in mercs to get an actual change was the ogrun bokur which didn't change its stats, only its availability. It didn't do anything for a merc list. So effectively mercenaries werre ignored by the errata. There's a difference between me expecting them to overhaul a faction, and me expecting them to change one loving model. It sucks that mercs were mostly ignored, but so where a couple other factions. And, I mean, I'd be pissed, too, but the problem to me is that Mk3 started out so unbalanced they needed to spend most of the first errata cycle on one faction. It's hard to judge what future errata documents will look like based on this first one.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:01
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And in 6 months there's going to be another excuse about why models that are unplayable were ignored again. But hey, CMA in a ranged unit is what everyone really asked for.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:04
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Siege crawler got a nice and mostly relevant buff too, but that doesn't fit your narrative
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Jan 13, 2017 21:11
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chutche2 posted:And in 6 months there's going to be another excuse about why models that are unplayable were ignored again. But, as far as I'm concerned, their willingness to admit they hosed up with Skorne and go back to the drawing board earned them a lot of goodwill, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:11
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CaptCommy posted:Siege crawler got a nice and mostly relevant buff too, but that doesn't fit your narrative Yes, they fixed a broken rule on a few models because they forgot to have structures, and that spilled over to mercs. The siege crawler was not bottom 5%, which is what they promised to look at.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:23
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The honeymoon of seeing the better numbers and rules on all the weak models (few exceptions) for me is over. My problems with my faction turned out to be even worse and now I'm just dreading that the whole game is equally a mess.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:46
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Looking at models not the same as actually changing them, fwiw.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:01
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chutche2 posted:Yes, they fixed a broken rule on a few models because they forgot to have structures, and that spilled over to mercs. Look at, not necessarily change. Big loving surprise a bunch of bad stuff in other factions didn't get buffed too.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:02
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Time for some positivity. My Hydra just got delivered to my FLGS. I am so pumped. Too bad i am not gonna do him justice whenever i paint him but i am gonna try drat it.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:19
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waah posted:Time for some positivity. I've been reading on the forum that the head and neck sculpts have blurry detail
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Jan 13, 2017 22:22
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S.J. posted:Look at, not necessarily change. Big loving surprise a bunch of bad stuff in other factions didn't get buffed too. The salt comes from the fact in mk2, no one took high shields because they were arguably the worst unit in the game. In mk3, they got nerfed. Then they issued errata that said they would look at top and bottom, but they still didn't do anything. So it seemed for all the world like there was a theme coming. But instead, no, more of the same. It's not like the sky is falling, it's just like, "why". Why bother doing that? What were they thinking when they made it? "This will sell more of the models were already selling! This will continue the play experience they are used to!" Like, what's the aim? It's just really baffling.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:46
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