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Kislev roster seems... fine? No surprises really. It's a bit sparse on first glance, but a) they are exceptionally flexible on a per-unit basis overall, which means they don't really have many holes even with fewer unit types, and b) their units also don't have too much overlap; even though several of them have similar roles in those cases the units are explicitly tiered. There aren't situations where, say, the Greenskins have three different mid-tier infantry choices (without even including variants, or other units that can tech to effectively become mid-tier). The biggest gaps are for low-tier non-hybrid melee grunts, hag casters, melee heroes, flyers (which they may never get, it might just be a primary weakness), and mid-tier artillery (which again, is quite possibly intended - HE, DE, and WoC all only get a single artillery option). There's definitely space here that they're obviously planning to use for a DLC or two, but that's not unique (Silverin Guard, anyone?). Other fun options would be a higher-tier horse archer, vanguard infantry, doggos, and a mid-tier monster to slot between the big boi bear and swifty squishy kitty. The one complaint that I think I genuinely share with reddit is that Katarin really should have her unique sled/chariot mount. Otherwise I don't think this is bad at all. It looks extremely playable and entertaining. Savy Saracen salad posted:So what's the Patriarch unit preference. Each LL has thematic units that enhance their playstyle. Katarina has the Ice guard and witches. The Patriarch has????? You cannot tell me its the bear units as everyone gets those (including as mounts). Who says he needs dedicated units? My bet is that he has replenishment and perhaps a general -x% recruitment discount to the lower-tier stuff. Kaza42 posted:It's entirely possible that Kostaltyn has a unique cultist unit not included in the broader Kislev reveal. Like how Aranessa has a few living units unique to her, which weren't included in the Vampire Coast Roster Reveal post they made True.
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Jun 15, 2021 23:20
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I'm not sure I even understand this discussion. *rides away on a bear followed by 19 giant elemental bears Twigand Berries fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 23:53
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Amuses me how I thought the new races were so good on WHII launch when they had a fraction of the units they do now. Probably wouldn’t recognise launch Skaven. Still had a blast with them at the time, yes-yes. They didn’t even have the under empire hahaha. VV Real Cool Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 00:05
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Yeah, Kislev roster seems pretty straightforward. If it feels relatively limited, it's because they're obviously leaving room for DLC-based roster expansion. I mean, at the least, it seems functional. Don't forget about Skaven at WH2's release who lacked pretty much all the fun toys that they have now (including undercities). I mean I'm not saying Kislev looks to be in anywhere near as obviously gimped a state as were the Skaven at WH2 release, rather that the more colorful/niche stuff is undoubtedly going to come later. I'm happy that the current roster looks fun and functional. The Skaven roster worked at release but it was massively loving improved with DLCs (most especially P&W), so hopefully they're avoiding that issue with Kislev.
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Jun 16, 2021 00:05
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Did the WHII races start with RoR at all?
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Jun 16, 2021 00:11
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Did the WHII races start with RoR at all? No, they got them gradually with the lord packs that came out, same as the WH1 races.
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Jun 16, 2021 00:19
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Real Cool Catfish posted:Amuses me how I thought the new races were so good on WHII launch when they had a fraction of the units they do now. Probably wouldn’t recognise launch Skaven. Still had a blast with them at the time, yes-yes. 
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Jun 16, 2021 02:53
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My biggest complaint is entirely the mount situation. I guess they are changing the lore so bears aren't as rare anymore, but I still feel that warbear mounts should've been given out more sparingly. Also with Kostaltyn I thought he'd not get a mount or get some kind of war altar to distinguish him.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:01
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Shumagorath posted:I have the worst taste in races to play straight out of launch. My first WH1 game was 200 turns of utter slogging as Chaos and for WH2 I picked Queek Jesus, I'm surprised you had a second game.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:02
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Eimi posted:My biggest complaint is entirely the mount situation. I guess they are changing the lore so bears aren't as rare anymore, but I still feel that warbear mounts should've been given out more sparingly. Also with Kostaltyn I thought he'd not get a mount or get some kind of war altar to distinguish him. I'd actually rather if Konstaltyn was a no-mount lord. I think it fits better, and it would distinguish him more from Volkmar.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:09
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orangelex44 posted:I'd actually rather if Konstaltyn was a no-mount lord. I think it fits better, and it would distinguish him more from Volkmar. It'd certainly fit his Rasputin vibe if he just walked.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:14
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Jesus, I'm surprised you had a second game. Vamps weren't bad either, but even my two favourite races were boring as poo poo compared to where DLC has brought them. About the only thing the Lizardmen need now is a new geomantic web.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:18
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Eimi posted:My biggest complaint is entirely the mount situation. I guess they are changing the lore so bears aren't as rare anymore, but I still feel that warbear mounts should've been given out more sparingly. Also with Kostaltyn I thought he'd not get a mount or get some kind of war altar to distinguish him. Same. For all my bitching I'm actually really excited to play this roster. It looks extremely like my jam. I can't remember, do the Ice Guard arrows do AP? I know they cause frostbite. If not, ranged combined arms with Streltsi for AP and Ice Guard for arrow support and general damage with high-charge fast cavalry sounds like so much fun. I suppose someone will come along with mods quick to fix mounts though. I'm still really hoping for a localized blizzard "mount" though. Vvvvv hell yea death to arcing AP fire Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 03:37
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Ravenfood posted:Same. For all my bitching I'm actually really excited to play this roster. It looks extremely like my jam. I can't remember, do the Ice Guard arrows do AP? I know they cause frostbite. If not, ranged combined arms with Streltsi for AP and Ice Guard for arrow support and general damage with high-charge fast cavalry sounds like so much fun. No. They have magical melee and ranged, frostbite melee and ranged, and (for the glaive variant) AP melee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTNMR3T8xkc&t=425s
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Jun 16, 2021 04:22
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Yeah all the heroes and lords having the same mounts is my only real complaint I think. I like the idea of the Rasputin guy being on foot or having a war alter mount and Ice Witches having panther mounts, personally
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Jun 16, 2021 05:37
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As the Dwarfs, it appears that holding alliances with humans and dwarfs who occupy holds that I need for campaign objectives counts in my favor, but not Lizardmen. Am I missing something?
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Jun 16, 2021 07:25
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Dr Christmas posted:As the Dwarfs, it appears that holding alliances with humans and dwarfs who occupy holds that I need for campaign objectives counts in my favor, but not Lizardmen. Am I missing something? Do you have a military alliance or a defensive alliance with them? Only military alliance counts for victory conditions.
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Jun 16, 2021 11:50
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I got the roster crammed in
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Jun 16, 2021 12:45
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amazing how everyone thinks just because you have a big animal means you can ride it like it's a cat no cat is going to allow that poo poo
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Jun 16, 2021 17:43
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Tiler Kiwi posted:factions having holes in their roster isn't bad. i tend to find hybrid units, tho very strong in campaign where you can just stack them and cover them all with one red line buff, are troublesome in MP since you often end up with a unit that is a bit overvalued; like shades, for instance, yeah they can do two jobs kind of okay, but that means they trade rather badly versus a unit that does one job okay for a lot less cost. they'll be interesting. Their MP is probably going to be so drat micro-intensive.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:46
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Twigand Berries posted:amazing how everyone thinks just because you have a big animal means you can ride it like it's a cat no cat is going to allow that poo poo cringe and cringer erasure.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:47
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KillerQueen posted:Their MP is probably going to be so drat micro-intensive. It's probably going to be somewhat similar to a mix between wood elves, bretonnia and empire. All of which are pretty micro-intensive if they are to be played well, so yeah, that tracks.
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Jun 16, 2021 17:50
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Randarkman posted:It's probably going to be somewhat similar to a mix between wood elves, bretonnia and empire. All of which are pretty micro-intensive if they are to be played well, so yeah, that tracks. It’s early to say yet. They have the leadership of dawi, but not the survivability. They have the shock of Brets, but a much more expensive infantry core. They have the shooty-ness of WElves, but not the general mobility. If I had to guess I’d put them at Empire level, where some builds need micro and others don’t. Unless their units are poorly balanced I think Kislev’s flexibility means they’ll have tons of tactical options to suit multiple playstyles, even with a smallish roster on paper.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:05
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Twigand Berries posted:amazing how everyone thinks just because you have a big animal means you can ride it like it's a cat no cat is going to allow that poo poo buy the tomb king dlc. report back after you get settra to level 18. checkmate lib.
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Jun 16, 2021 18:43
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boo boo bear posted:cringe and cringer erasure. "Put a loving saddle on it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGgoJQrJNDU
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Jun 16, 2021 18:54
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Up Circle posted:buy the tomb king dlc. report back after you get settra to level 18. checkmate lib. We've already got demigryphs and griffons. If people can ride catbirds of various types I think magical snowcat is within the realm of sanity. Make them glowing and call them magical constructs made of ice that just look like the snowcats if you want. Wouldn't be my first choice but I also understand the amount of work more mounts would be and reducing the asset burden makes sense. Ie, I don't think Teclis gets an Arcane Phoenix mount if they hadn't already done the work for it elsewhere. E: forgot about the Bretonnian horsebirdcats. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 19:02
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I really wish there was a graphical indicator of charging status so I can pull them out when the bonus wears off.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:19
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I need to just stop trying with Cult of Sotek, skink empire is a lovely dream but the start is just too drat hectic for my dumb rear end to handle.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:28
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jokes posted:I really wish there was a graphical indicator of charging status so I can pull them out when the bonus wears off. True! I wouldn't mind if there was a distinction between charge impact damage and charge bonus attack/damage too. Ideally I could something like (eg) monstrous infantry get relatively large bonus attack damage while a lancer charge would do much higher impact damage while not getting a subsequent big bonus. It could make charges more impactful and make light lancer cavalry do good damage on the charge without getting quite so mulched up by their low defense stats, but you could keep them vulnerable to prolonged combat.
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Jun 16, 2021 19:45
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Jay Rust posted:Which factions let you build tall? I think I read in here that the tomb kings do but also that they got hosed over by some recent changes to growth rate, so I don’t know if I want to try them in particular right now I found a mod made by Gejnor of this thread that fixes just the recent growth changes and it makes TK so much fun. I kept bouncing off them but finally got a solid empire snowballing and getting the cool TK tier 5 units. Also once I realized that the battle mechanic is based on how many of your units have died that I started to get my skeletons killed en masse. stackofflapjacks fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 19:50
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stackofflapjacks posted:I found a mod made by Gejnor of this thread that fixes just the recent growth changes and it makes TK so much fun. I kept bouncing off them but finally got a solid empire snowballing and getting the cool TK tier 5 units. I had to stop playing because the growth changes made everything feel painfully slow. I think it took over 60 turns for Dwarfs to go from T4 to T5 with maximum possible growth bonuses. Gejnor's mod makes the game playable again and for that I'm thankful.
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Jun 16, 2021 20:11
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Yeah, when I stopped playing last night, it was turn ~140 and Archaon had arrived. Karaz-a-Karak was my only T5 city.
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Jun 16, 2021 20:50
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I just finished a long campaign as Drycha. I was revisiting her because I had a blast my first go around after she released. I played really aggressively that time (I think I had outposts all the way into the badlands and owned half the empire) but this go around I was super isolationist, letting trees take a bit longer to grow if it avoided wars. I saved the donut for last and finished the campaign in the midst of a hell war with Tyrion. It ended on turn 175 and it had to be my most enjoyable campaign yet because the AI did something I have never seen before. Not a single faction steamrolled. Almost every faction was a roller coaster of expansion and then contraction only to expand again. I thought the orcs might finally take off around turn 100 when out of nowhere Mors shows up and beats Grimgor down to like eighth place. Turn 175 and there were still elector counts. The dwarves existed as a faction but in not africa. Maz owned Naggarond and Malekith became a pirate? (he had no territory but had a single stack with just him and a couple of black arks that just moved around with him). I had of course steam rolled and it was like having these little buffer zones of my small forests and stacks of treemen in the midst of their empires must have worried the AI enough that they never just blitzed outward like they usually do. I guess VC finally died, but not until turn 120 or so.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:06
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KillerQueen posted:I need to just stop trying with Cult of Sotek, skink empire is a lovely dream but the start is just too drat hectic for my dumb rear end to handle. It’s all about managing the rites and getting the red line buffs on Tehenhuain early. Don’t start with Route Marcher until you have all three levels of skink buffs. Then it’s just about using your special rite at the right moment. Kill everyone between you and Teclis (and then him too, for good measure), keep your sacrifices going, always get more sacrificial offerings after battles. Keep the basic buffs to replenishment going, and the snake bomb. Then use most of your sacrifices on unlocking Followers. You want the Obstinite Miner, who reduces all building costs by 15%, on every Lord you recruit. It will quickly make your expensive Lizardman buildings very cheap to build.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:22
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Ark of Sotek can kill basically infinite number of Skavens, as long as you sent him in the middle of anti-armour and anti-large infantry, or in front of Skaven ratling guns. There were battles in the beginning where it got like 800+ kills.
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Jun 16, 2021 22:17
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The rite which buffs skinks and the jungle swarm sacrifice carry hard for dealing with the rats up to Teclis. (And Khalida, sorry but I need that territory). Seriously jungle swarm just dissolves a lump of rats into a manageable pile of goo. This was on N/H, mileage probably varies on higher campaign difficulties. ^^Ark of Sotek has a built in jungle swarm and also melts the rats.
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Jun 16, 2021 22:19
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Just fought Settra as a rando vampire coast admiral. Was down to my lord and a necrofex and just won before they crumbled away. That was ridiculous. Also gently caress Tyrion
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Jun 16, 2021 22:22
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I just completed my first vortex campaign playing TK on easy just to plow through it. I don’t recommend unless you’re curious- I’m amazed at how much I still think fondly of TK and this game despite some boring rear end poo poo. I enjoy renaming cities/generals and painting the map with overwhelming skeletons so auto resolved most battles only fighting interesting matchups - nice chill way to play imo. No idea if this was odd but I was allied with Repanse and Clan Mors for most of the game. Finished at turn 173 and in final battle Arkhan’s armies were motionless as I just pelted them with arrows/arty from afar. Wasn’t until last 30 turns that I had proper access to T4/T5 fun stuff due to limited units. I still enjoy TK but drat that poo poo was boring. Maybe they should get a growth bonus for turning in canopic jars?
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Jun 16, 2021 22:25
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TK got hit hard by the growth changes, was really undeserved.
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Jun 16, 2021 22:27
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Don’t think I’ve played them since the growth changes. They were glacial at it even before.
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Jun 16, 2021 23:02
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