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AlternateNu posted:Don't forget RW Burn. Boros Charm + Lightning Strike + Warleader's Helix + Eidolon of the Great Revel was such a fun deck. Required viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baa2HvEUFzI
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Mar 14, 2017 00:18
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A big flaming stink posted:Required viewing: This is one of my favorite clips
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Mar 14, 2017 00:18
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Defending Pack Rat as a design is hard to do, but I don't buy that it was so incredibly oppressive you could never beat it because unlike a lot of snowballing cards in current Standard, you could and often did just answer Pack Rat.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:20
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Jabor posted:Even then, there were answers that could you catch you back up if you drew them later, and even severely punish your opponent for going too all-in on the rats. Yeah, I always liked Bile Blighting their Rat after they made a token in their attacks. Also 4 mana wraths existed. mfcrocker posted:The only good Standard formats in recent memory were around Khans/Fate (DTK hosed stuff up some and Origins/BFZ were death) and INN-RTR. Standard is usually great for like a month after a set comes out. There was a pretty good stretch where the PTs were actually pretty good. The one Ivan Floch won had 8 different decks, IIRC, and they were all good enough decks in the format after the PT. EMN had a really good PT and then was pretty bad almost immediately after when everyone figured out that 6 mana 13/13 flample Mindslavers were good. The last 2 PTs haven't even been good during the PT.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:20
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Angry Grimace posted:It was a "3 deck Standard" ....kind of. The most dominant decks were around 4 decks, but Mono-Black wasn't actually so good as to legit push everything else out of the format. GW Aggro, Mono-Blue, RG Monsters, UW Control, Red Aggro and Mono-B were all decks that saw reasonable amounts of play during that period. There were also fringe strategies that saw play like Mono-Green Devotion. Games were actually quite good with most of those matches, as well. Mono B, Mono U and Sphinx's Rev Control were much better than the rest of the format.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:22
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A big flaming stink posted:Pack Rat was literally a limited bulk rare before Innistrad rotated. It slotted well in Mono black devotion, of course, but it's prominence was solely an artifact of Theros being the most drastic reduction of power level in the game to date. Actually I'm pretty sure it was the combination of self replicating creature that kills you quickly that requires extremely specific answers and Thoughtseize. I don't remember that well but other than Detention Sphere and wrath what dealt with it? It's also just a complete garbage card design, there's no reason for the ability on that card to be instant speed.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:22
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suicidesteve posted:EMN had a really good PT and then was pretty bad almost immediately after when everyone figured out that 6 mana 13/13 flample Mindslavers were good. I remember Bant Company continuing to be the clear best deck until DTK and Origins rotated out and KLD rotated in and that being when our friend the giant spaghetti monster became dominant
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Mar 14, 2017 00:23
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mcmagic posted:Mono B, Mono U and Sphinx's Rev Control were much better than the rest of the format. I don't really care if you believe that was true because lots there are plenty of tournament results to back up that lots of other decks did well in lots of different tournaments.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:26
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gwrtheyrn posted:This is one of my favorite clips Yesssssssss, Satyr Firedancer and Boros Reckoner. Why can't we have cards like them back?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:27
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't really care if you believe that was true because lots there are plenty of tournament results to back up that lots of other decks did well in lots of different tournaments. They were probably before the Dezani pro tour.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:28
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Marketing New Brain posted:Actually I'm pretty sure it was the combination of self replicating creature that kills you quickly that requires extremely specific answers and Thoughtseize. I don't remember that well but other than Detention Sphere and wrath what dealt with it? Angel of Serenity on Turn 5, BTE+BTE+Lightning Mauler, Thragtusks for days, etc. Pack Rat is a pretty reasonable card, its resilience to removal did not make up for the fact that it was slow as poo poo.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:30
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A big flaming stink posted:Angel of Serenity on Turn 5, BTE+BTE+Lightning Mauler, Thragtusks for days, etc. Pack Rat is a pretty reasonable card, its resilience to removal did not make up for the fact that it was slow as poo poo. PackRat was NOT a reasonable card. For limited or for standard.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:31
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mcmagic posted:They were probably before the Dezani pro tour. That was Pro Tour Theros. There are literally 0 Standard GPs in the format before that because that's how they structure Pro Tours. There are plenty of decks that did well that aren't one of those three: Let's see: GP Dallas (2013) 1 Orzhov Control 2 UW Control 3 RG Devotion 4 Weenie White 5 Boros Aggro/Burn 6 Devotion to Black 7 UW Control 8 UW Control GP Melbourne (2014) 1 Devotion to Black 2 UW Control 3 Esper Control 4 Jund Aggro 5 Devotion to Blue 6 Esper Control 7 RG Monsters 8 Orzhov Control GP Cincinnati (2014) 1 Esper Control 2 Esper Control 3 Devotion to Black 4 Mono Black Aggro 5 Devotion to Blue 6 Esper Control 7 Naya Aura 8 Orzhov Control GP Phoenix (2014) 1 Devotion to Black 2 Devotion to Blue 3 Devotion to Blue 4 Jund Aggro 5 Jund Aggro 6 Devotion to Black 7 Devotion to Black 8 UW Control The argument that it was a three deck format and nothing else was competitive doesn't really work. At least not the way it works with current Standard. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 00:33
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mcmagic posted:PackRat was NOT a reasonable card. For limited or for standard. no argument about limited (good old days of 39 swamps + pack rat) but the card was rightfully considered unplayable trash for half its standard lifetime. If you consider it unreasonable for standard, how do you feel about Thragtusk, Geist of St Traft, Huntmaster of the Fells, Olivia Voldaren?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:38
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A big flaming stink posted:no argument about limited (good old days of 39 swamps + pack rat) but the card was rightfully considered unplayable trash for half its standard lifetime. If you consider it unreasonable for standard, how do you feel about Thragtusk, Geist of St Traft, Huntmaster of the Fells, Olivia Voldaren? Could you cast Thragtusk, Geist or the others on T2 and win the game a few turns later without casting another spell if they didn't have exactly the answer for it the next turn?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:56
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mcmagic posted:Could you cast Thragtusk, Geist or the others on T2 and win the game a few turns later without casting another spell if they didn't have exactly the answer for it the next turn? No, but you know what could do that? Rabblemaster. And nobody ever cries about how oppressive it was. Edit: Also yes with Geist. And Geist needed even more specific answers. Edit 2: Also saying that Pack Rat killed without casting a spell, while literally true is pretty disingenuous. It's not like you weren't still committing cards to the board, you just weren't casting them. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 01:00
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suicidesteve posted:No, but you know what could do that? Rabblemaster. And nobody ever cries about how oppressive it was. rabblemaster is 2R 
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Mar 14, 2017 01:01
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gwrtheyrn posted:rabblemaster is 2R GR would go T1 Mystic into T2 Rabble.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:02
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gwrtheyrn posted:rabblemaster is 2R I agree.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:04
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This was a format with a real wrath. Is wrath of good too good for standard? Sickening fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 01:05
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I think Pack Rat gets more hate than other equally stupid cards because a) in RTR-THS Standard it was the best turn 2 play out of the most commonly played deck b) you usually had to find an answer for it after getting Thoughtseized at least once c) in RTR-THS there really weren't a lot of other answer-or-instantly-die threats for it to compare to, at least until Rabblemaster got printed at the tail end of the season. I think people remember that format as less diverse than it was mostly because it stayed roughly the same for most of the year. But there was a fair amount of play and diversity in that format even if there was a really clearly defined and static Tier 1.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:10
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Also a dead rabble master doesn't leave more rabble masters. Not to say it wasn't drat good.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:22
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Anyone wanna give me a diggity deal on MTGO tix? I can paypal you, looking for 100 edit: oops, wrong thread
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Mar 14, 2017 01:29
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A big flaming stink posted:Required viewing: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Mar 14, 2017 01:34
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Sickening posted:This was a format with a real wrath.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:36
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mcmagic posted:Could you cast Thragtusk, Geist or the others on T2 and win the game a few turns later without casting another spell if they didn't have exactly the answer for it the next turn? Geist + armadillo cloak was pretty brutal, yeah. You never want a Thragtusk to last more than a turn because it's gonna get resto'ed. You could always go for the comedy option of letting a Boros reckoner live and praying they don't have Blasphemous Act in their hand. e: And if you hate Sphinx's Revelation, let me tell you about Rev into Snap Rev. Good times. e2: Like, one of the defining features of that format was that removal was worthless because every creature had a brutal etb or was hard as poo poo to kill profitably. Pretty much most decks came down to trying to outvalue each other in a Thragtusk war. e3: And you could do anything you wanted because the mana was better than KTK-BFZ. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 01:44
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mcmagic posted:Could you cast Thragtusk, Geist or the others on T2 and win the game a few turns later without casting another spell if they didn't have exactly the answer for it the next turn? You could say the same thing for a T1 blind flip Delver  Also learning how to play Pack Rat was a skill. I therefore declare it the Black Gush.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU8ipv6hKpg God I miss that standard.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:15
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suicidesteve posted:No, but you know what could do that? Rabblemaster. And nobody ever cries about how oppressive it was. Bad opinion. Rabblemaster was gas but it was also 3 mana and could be answered on T4 or T5 NTM it could be blocked effectively by pretty much every other creature in standard.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:16
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mfcrocker posted:The only good Standard formats in recent memory were around Khans/Fate (DTK hosed stuff up some and Origins/BFZ were death) and INN-RTR. DTK standard was more than fine if you ignore Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector turning Abzan into grind hell, and origins standard was actually pretty rad It had mill win a GP against abzan enchantments, for gently caress's sake, that owned BFZ standard was 4c hell and it's never quite recovered since
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Mar 14, 2017 02:18
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GeneX posted:DTK standard was more than fine if you ignore Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector turning Abzan into grind hell, and origins standard was actually pretty rad Abzan Megamorphs was the best and most fun.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:21
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Pack Rat isn't amazing because of raw power, it's amazing because it turns any hand with 2B and pack rat into a good-to-great hand. It makes mulliganing nearly painless. The only draws it doesn't help are games you would have lost anyways with literally any other deck. It was a late-game mana sink, a powerful aggressive card, card 'filtering', and a devotion enabler, all in one. It wasn't the best at any of these things but at 1B it didn't have to be. A deck with 2R, rabblemaster, and nothing else is in a poo poo position. The deck in that position with pack rat has a good shot at the prize. That's the problem with pack rat. Eela6 fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 02:30
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A big flaming stink posted:Theros being the most drastic reduction of power level in the game to date. Urza -> Masques Mirrodin -> Kamigawa. RTR -> Theros was NOWHERE CLOSE to as huge a drop.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:56
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A big flaming stink posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU8ipv6hKpg Yeah that standard was slick... Anyone remember this gem? 5:35 is where the fun begins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28EW7MAfxnI
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Mar 14, 2017 02:57
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Some Numbers posted:Urza -> Masques well, that'll teach me to speak without qualifiers. Out of curiosity, how long did it take to reverse those drops in power level?
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Mar 14, 2017 03:07
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A big flaming stink posted:well, that'll teach me to speak without qualifiers. After Masques there was nothing on the power level of Urza until...Mirrodin? After Kamigawa, I think it took until maybe Alara or Zendikar. If not either of those then definitely New Phyrexia. Mirrodin aside though I dont think there's been a set anywhere near as broken as the Urza blocks. WOTC learns slow but they do learn eventually.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:29
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A big flaming stink posted:well, that'll teach me to speak without qualifiers. Ravnica was pretty low powered all things considered, maybe average at best for the time. Time Spiral was a definite big uptick in power, although a weird set all around, one of the best limited formats before Future Sight ruined it with loving Sprout Swarm. Lorwyn and then Shards both saw big levels of power creep.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:30
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Marketing New Brain posted:Ravnica was pretty low powered all things considered, maybe average at best for the time. Time Spiral was a definite big uptick in power, although a weird set all around, one of the best limited formats before Future Sight ruined it with loving Sprout Swarm. Lorwyn and then Shards both saw big levels of power creep. Ravnica was considered a big boost in power level at the time if only because it was the first time Duals other the original Dual lands made an appearance. It also introduced Dredge to the game. Also power level of a set was often viewed by how big an impact it made on Extended.
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Mar 14, 2017 03:44
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TheMaestroso posted:I see she found it necessary to watermark this totally original comic with photoshopped magic cards on it. Nice catch. I put these two things together=new thing do not steal.
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Mar 14, 2017 04:06
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| # ? May 31, 2024 11:29 |
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Dredge as a deck wasn't really a thing until Planar Chaos had Dread Return, and Future Sight introduced Narcomoeba and Bridge from Below. God was the standard version of that deck fun though.
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Mar 14, 2017 04:09
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