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Aha. So my problem is 1: the Lydian pattern's missing a note, and 2: my assumption that each mode should have a different fingering pattern is incorrect.fookolt posted:
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Jun 28, 2013 07:13
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Hydrolith posted:Aha. So my problem is 1: the Lydian pattern's missing a note, and 2: my assumption that each mode should have a different fingering pattern is incorrect. Well, it depends on your style of playing (and how much you can stretch your fretting fingers). Some folks really like legato (hammer-ons and pull-offs), so they'll probably try to do as few notes per string as possible so they don't have to worry about volume dying down with the added notes. The same goes for people with less stretchy fingers; you'll want to keep hopping strings in order to go up and down scales. For me, because I really love alternate picking and going a perfect fourth isn't an issue, my way to approach patterns on the fretboard is to maximize the efficiency of both the fretting hand and picking hand by picking lines that use 3 notes per string and trying to stay on the same string (or same two strings) as much as possible. So a really common warm up for me is something like this:  Here is my not very good rendition of that: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1k9rbMlBSgC
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Jun 28, 2013 07:46
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That's helpful. Thanks.
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Jun 28, 2013 08:05
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Hydrolith posted:Aha. So my problem is 1: the Lydian pattern's missing a note, and 2: my assumption that each mode should have a different fingering pattern is incorrect. No they do each have a unique fingering pattern, each mode is a unique sequence of intervals which is what makes a Lydian a Lydian and so on. I think what's confusing you is that the collection of modes you're looking at (C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian etc) all share the same notes in different sequences, so you're always looking at the same notes on the fretboard, and when you come to pick a useful 4- or 5-fret box it'll be useful for more than one mode because of all the notes it covers. The actual pattern you play is different, but it might only be by starting one note earlier in the available C major scale notes. That's why I don't think this is a super helpful approach, personally. This is all technically true, and it's handy to know as another way of looking at things, but ideally you want to know the pattern for F# mixolydian without having to back-translate to the relevant major key, find the relevant scale pattern, then mentally position yourself the correct number of steps into that sequence. It's way more useful to know the pattern on its own, and especially to know that mixolydian is a major scale with a minor 7th, so you just play the 7th a fret lower. And if this is something you only want to do for a brief moment in a song, it's way better to just knowingly shift a few notes instead of doing all those mental gymnastics. And I say this as someone who did the exact same 'whoa modes, and you can just play a major scale starting on another note!' thing. It kinda sucks in practice! Have a look at studybass.com, there are sections on intervals and how to find them on the fretboard. It's a really handy resource in general - it applies to guitar, except the cursed B string of course
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Jun 28, 2013 08:06
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Hydrolith posted:This would be incredibly useful for me, and is actually what I'm trying to learn here in a very roundabout way. I figured I could learn each shape, play up and down them as I need, and transition from one to the other when I need more room. Of course that means I need to know how to transition efficiently, which so far I don't... I agree with fookolt that practicing "modes" in the sense of scale diagrams or whatever kind of charts like that actually slows down your development of free fretboard movement. It strongly encourages you to memorize these massive six-string patterns that look a bit random but really aren't. If you aren't already familiar with the most basic theory stuff like how to build chords and scales, really take the modest amount of time to get that down, just the material you might expect from the first few weeks of Music Theory 101. It's easy to learn in a short time. Once you understand how the basic scales are constructed, work through many, many fingerings yourself. Play the whole scale on one string starting with your index finger, then starting with your middle finger, then ring, then pinky, then a two string pattern starting with each finger, then three strings. What if you skip to the next string after the second note, third, fourth? Don't just focus on what seems most efficient, just play slowly, keep track of where in the scale you are, watch out for patterns and how they move around the fretboard, and try as much stuff as possible. What I'm probably doing a bad job of getting at is that this is mental practice a lot more than physical technique practice. Once you have built up a good model of how to get around then you can worry about committing the most efficient positions and techniques for moving between them to muscle memory.
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Jun 28, 2013 08:41
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Hm. This is really hard to explain, and I've had about ten goes at writing this post. I tend to think in terms of patterns, and where I am relative to the root note, rather than what the notes are actually called. I know the pentatonic shapes fairly well, and tend to think of where I am on the pattern. I rely on my ear very heavily, as well as muscle memory. Like... I know theoretically how a major scale is constructed, if I stop to think about what a piano keyboard looks like, but I don't think about where I am on the scale in terms of where I am on that keyboard, I think about it in terms of where I am on the fretboard, within a certain pattern. At least, that's what I've been doing with the major pattern I know, and with the pentatonic patterns. Like... I almost never think about what the notes are called, but I do think about where I am relative to where I started/just was/the root note/etc. It's hard to explain. I guess what I'm trying to do here is learn patterns up and down the string, then patterns across the strings to join them together efficiently. When you say to play up the scale on one string and keep track of where I am in the scale, do you mean keep track in relative terms or absolute terms? At the moment, I'm more likely to think "I'm on the 7th note of the octave I'm playing in" than "I'm playing an A". I hardly ever think of where I am in terms of what the note is called. Like, is the idea "I'm playing an A and I know the next one is a B and it's over here"? So far I've been mostly working with "I know the next one is over here" and leaving it at that. [edit]Eg, I'd be likely to drill those mode patterns till my hand falls off, then take that pattern fookolt posted, drill it till my hand falls off, and use it to transition between the mode patterns.[/edit]
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Jun 28, 2013 09:39
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Should I take a gamble on the fretwork of a XV-890 from GFS or pick up a mockingbird ST with a case for 445? It be for B standard tuning so fretwork on the shittier side of mediocre is fine. I got an offer on ebay for the bird so I'm personally debating on spending the money.
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Jun 28, 2013 19:28
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Francostein posted:Should I take a gamble on the fretwork of a XV-890 from GFS or pick up a mockingbird ST with a case for 445? It be for B standard tuning so fretwork on the shittier side of mediocre is fine. I got an offer on ebay for the bird so I'm personally debating on spending the money. Never seen an XV, but I hear middling reviews about them. My GC has several of those BC Rich's and they're really really nice and that's a killer price for one with case.
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Jun 28, 2013 19:43
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Egh gently caress it that deal's too good to pass up, I'm getting it. GAS is a loving killer, looks like I'm going to work some overtime in July. Edit; funny thing, I kept thinking the guitars pictures all had dents in them and then I realized that's actually from when I dropped a screwdriver onto my work laptop this morning while messing around with PLC relays. Spanish Manlove fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 19:57
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I don't know about that specific mockingbird but most of the midrange BC Riches I've played have been pretty cool.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:10
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I played an acrylic one loving years ago and it was really cool to my thirteen year old brain. Here's the link to it by the way; http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=200937862190 I also post on my phone at work and don't feel like emailing myself a link so hopefully that works.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:19
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Pretty cool guitar. Has the shitton of switches and knobs that I always like to see on BC Riches.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:21
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I can't wait to turn all those knobs and flip all those switches.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:34
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Hydrolith posted:stuff This is what I was talking about earlier http://www.studybass.com/lessons/intervals/basic-intervals/ It shows you where intervals are relative to the root note, so for instance the 5th is on the next higher string, two frets up, or two strings up and three frets back (B string caveats apply). If you know the intervals which make up the major scale, you can construct your own fretboard pattern from any starting point. You can also do this with modes, because you know that (say) for the Lydian mode, it's a major scale with the 4th raised a semitone (augmented 4th). So instead of playing the note directly above the root (the perfect 4th), you play the note one fret higher (the augmented 4th). It can be as simple as learning those small changes to the major scale. Another way to look at it (and it's good to understand things from as many angles as possible) is from note to note, instead of everything relative to your root starting point. The major scale goes W W S W W W S (whole tones and semitones), which means from each note in the scale you move either a whole tone (2 frets) or a semitone (1 fret) to get to the next note. Lydian goes W W W S W W S - instead of moving a semitone from the major 3rd to the perfect 4th, the 4th is raised so you have to do a whole tone hop. Now you're right next to the 5th, so it's a semitone jump instead of the usual whole tone one from the P4. That might sound complicated at first but it really isn't, it's just understanding the characteristic jumps that give each mode its special flavour. Try running your major scale up and down, then do it with the 4th raised to get the lydian instead. You should hear how that one note moved out of place changes the feel, especially if you're playing over a chord progression so you can hear how it sits on top of it. The pentatonic patterns are similar - they're major or minor scales with some notes removed completely. You can look at the natural minor scale (aeolian mode) as a major scale with the 3rd, 6th and 7th dropped a semitone. These are really helpful patterns to know. Knowing your box patterns for different modes might be useful for speed and general 'whatever I hit will fit' noodling, but I think it's more helpful to understand what notes they involve, at least as intervals relative to whatever root note you're on. Patterns are good for practice and muscle memory, but you'll probably have a way easier and more productive time of it understanding what you're doing before you start learning shortcuts. It's easy to get lost and that's when things get bad
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Jun 28, 2013 20:36
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Also in case anyone gives a poo poo I've been browsing eBay all week and found some killer deals, here's a bitching priced charvel with a case that's going to end in ten minutes. http://bit.ly/15Oe3sd Looks to me like an amazing deal if you can beat the snipers.
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Jun 28, 2013 20:50
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That price it went for is insane. I might've bid on it if I hadn't just bought a guitar.
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Jun 28, 2013 21:57
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muike posted:That price it went for is insane. I might've bid on it if I hadn't just bought a guitar. Me too ahahaha. But in case any lurkers or regulars have mockingbird envy there's another bird I was looking at, same model but red (also with case) for four hundred. http://bit.ly/12rPR0X Ends in two days but my bet is that it's not going up very much from that price. Also that MIJ Jackson Kelly back from a while ago got relocated at the same price and there's a few decently priced PRS Santana's that I saw today but I think they might have a few people already looking at them.
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Jun 28, 2013 22:23
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Aw man that one's got the chicken head rotary too. My favorite thing to shop around for is B stocks right now. I got this Jazzmastery thing at 200 dollars off for a finish flaw I can't even see or will care about? Sure, sign me up.
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Jun 28, 2013 22:38
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That's awesome dude, those guitars play really nicely. B-stock is great for stuff like amps where it's going to get dinged and nicked anyway from apathetically shoving into the trunk of your 96 tercel.
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Jun 28, 2013 23:06
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That rule follows for my guitars too. Ever since I got my Ibanez off of ebay all those years ago, smelling of a decade of concentrated cigarette smoke and diabetic sweat, i have been following a road of destruction.
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Jun 28, 2013 23:12
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muike posted:That rule follows for my guitars too. Ever since I got my Ibanez off of ebay all those years ago, smelling of a decade of concentrated cigarette smoke and diabetic sweat, i have been following a road of destruction. I bought my Epiphone from a guy who rolled his own cigarettes. I know that smell all too well. 
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Jun 28, 2013 23:52
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I usually buy new but my first guitar was an 80s SG baked in weed, hate, and bar smoke thanks to my crazy uncle. It's beat to hell, smells weird, and plays great. Everyone should own a properly used and abused guitar.
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Jun 29, 2013 00:48
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Progress. Mmm baby, that's shiny. Still have some fine polishing to do, though.
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Jun 29, 2013 00:57
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Memorizing scale diagrams cold is very challenging, it requires a lot of written work and practice, and just a lot of time and thought. I will echo what a poster above said about learning your intervals, this is much easier and more intuitive. Figure out how to use intervals to build the major and natural minor scale, and then which scale degrees are changed in the major scale to get each mode. This process should take about 2 minths to fully integrate. Start with the interval ear trainer at musictheory.net, then figure out how to build the major and minor scale BY EAR at various locations around the guitar neck. This method is powerful because then you are not restricted at all by fretboard patterns, you can soley use your ears to determine first which note next you want to hit (in your head) and then know all of the available options on the fretboard, based on the previous note you played, where that next note lies. Because if you can hear (in your head) the interval between the current note and your target note, it's quite simple to memorize the interval relationships between notes on the guitar neck. For example, the common power chord shape is a perfect fifth. If you can hear, in your head, that the next note you want to hit is a perfect fifth away from the one your finger is currently on, then you should know exactly where to hit it. I t is quite nice to not have to worry about any theory or memorization of fretboard patterns, and simply play over any progression or modulation all by ear. It is totally liberating and allows free movement around the fretboard, and your improv will sound less scalar and more creative (after a long time practicing, of course). Another unintended benefit is the ability to write music solely from your head, without any reference to an instrument. Because these same concepts of using intervals also apply to other instruments. coolbian57 fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jun 29, 2013 |
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Jun 29, 2013 01:23
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To be honest once you memorize five shapes you know all the modes if you can super-impose them anywhere onto the neck.
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Jun 29, 2013 02:03
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muike posted:Aw man that one's got the chicken head rotary too. My favorite thing to shop around for is B stocks right now. I got this Jazzmastery thing at 200 dollars off for a finish flaw I can't even see or will care about? Sure, sign me up. Well now I'm 400 dollars in the hole because I decided I needed a Jazzmastery thing with mini humbuckers I imagine when I die my family will light all of my guitars on fire like a funeral pyre
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Jun 29, 2013 04:39
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Hahaha cool. I'll let you know how I like it when I get mine. edit: The good news is if I want to gently caress around with the pickups, GFS has a slew of minibuckers.
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Jun 29, 2013 04:43
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I keep my acoustic guitar tuned 1.5 steps down from standard (C# F# B E G# C#), and I have had it set up to play in this tuning. I recently changed the strings, and the G# string is buzzing when it is depressed on several different frets (1-3). The G# string is a 0.43 MM gauge, and I am not sure if this is lighter than the gauge I changed it from (I don't remember). Would accidentally reducing string gauge cause it to buzz? If so, what gauge of string should I use? I am considering buying a new pack of strings and just replacing the G# with a heavier gauge.
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Jun 29, 2013 07:08
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For the past week or two, how's the weather been where you live?
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Jun 29, 2013 13:50
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Cpt. Spring Types posted:Progress. Purty! Francostein posted:To be honest once you memorize five shapes you know all the modes if you can super-impose them anywhere onto the neck. When I was 17 and first learning guitar, that's how I learned it. And it works, although it locks you into a particular position to get the key/mode you want, and it doesn't give you any sense of note progressions. Now that I'm picking the guitar up again, I'm liking coolbian's approach more. Also, I've been finding that Music Discipline site pretty useful -- the exercises approach scales from a lot of different angles, and are big on learning the whole fretboard.
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Jun 30, 2013 07:46
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So I was playing a friend's baritone acoustic today and I really dug it, but the cheapest one I could find was around $350. I was wondering if it might be cheaper to just modify an acoustic I already have laying around, to set it up for B standard? If so, besides widening the nut, what mods would I have to make?
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Jun 30, 2013 19:14
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Pretty much that's it. Just heavier strings and a setup with that one mod and you're good to go.
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Jun 30, 2013 19:17
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Speaking of nuts, do y'all have any favorite kinds or even care at all? I remember really really really liking Earvana nuts when I had guitars with them.
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Jun 30, 2013 19:22
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muike posted:Speaking of nuts, do y'all have any favorite kinds or even care at all? I remember really really really liking Earvana nuts when I had guitars with them. Graphtec for me
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Jun 30, 2013 22:32
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Well, poo poo. I was just changed my electroacoustic strings, and I noticed a hairline crack between the pegholes. It kinda looks like this, but on mine the crack is barely noticeable:  How worried should I be?
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Jul 1, 2013 02:41
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muike posted:Speaking of nuts, do y'all have any favorite kinds or even care at all? I remember really really really liking Earvana nuts when I had guitars with them. I make bone nuts for the ones I build. I buy the bone at petsmart and cut it into blanks, then shape from there. I do all the cutting outside on a bandsaw and wear a mask the whole time, bone is smelly.
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Jul 1, 2013 03:13
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Ivory is pretty much the best material, but good luck finding it. You won't. Bone or synthetic bone is probably the best place to start.
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Jul 1, 2013 03:35
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jwh posted:Ivory is pretty much the best material, but good luck finding it. You won't. You're actually not allowed to have it in your possession if I'm remembering right (unless it's in an instrument already). Bone sounds the best to me but TUSQ, Graphtec, and Earvana are all great as well. Anything but cheap plastic.
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Jul 1, 2013 08:34
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jwh posted:Ivory is pretty much the best material, but good luck finding it. You won't. That being said, I just found this  http://www.guitarpartsandmore.com/?nav=products&cat=1&sub=4
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Jul 1, 2013 14:56
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Edmond Dantes posted:Well, poo poo. I was just changed my electroacoustic strings, and I noticed a hairline crack between the pegholes. Might wanna take it to someone to get it reinforced. 
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Jul 1, 2013 15:20
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