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PupsOfWar posted:a fun thing w/ cersei's assassination method is that hypothetically she could have tried to kill Robert before, and this just happened to be the time it worked My theory is that they've been giving him strong wine for all manner of hunts and jousts and ladder climbs etc over the past years but this was the time they finally got him.
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Jun 1, 2019 04:39
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Katt posted:My theory is that they've been giving him strong wine for all manner of hunts and jousts and ladder climbs etc over the past years but this was the time they finally got him. This seems like a reasonable theory. There's also the theory that the attempts to help him kill himself have gotten serious since Jon Arryn was killed. And or since Arryn started looking into Robert's bastards. Or that whole thing is a coincidence.
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Jun 1, 2019 05:05
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It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you want a fat drunk that loves boar-hunting dead you get him extremely juiced and wait for the inevitable. It doesn't take a Varys or Qyburn to orchestrate. A Cersei or a Lancel could pull that one off.
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Jun 1, 2019 05:11
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Solice Kirsk posted:If the books finally come out, I say we all accept a specially crafted permaban with a picture of the Absolute Fucker cert and "What is dead may never die" as the tag. 
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Jun 1, 2019 05:43
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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kcroy posted:Wait what now? How do we know this? She explicitly tells Jaimes that's exactly what happened. Jaime's basically tells her she disgusts him and to never talk to him again Jaime's Feast chapters are actually really loving good
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Jun 1, 2019 05:48
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i mean drinking that much strongwine ought to cause liver failure at some point surely or... esophageal cancer??? does cancer exist in westeros
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Jun 1, 2019 05:56
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Food Boner posted:i mean drinking that much strongwine ought to cause liver failure at some point surely or... esophageal cancer??? Bobby B is only around 29 years old in the books. Most alcohol related cancer manifests much later. Also, he was a normal wine drunk. The "strong wine" is how they pushed him over the edge.
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Jun 1, 2019 05:59
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you want a fat drunk that loves boar-hunting dead you get him extremely juiced and wait for the inevitable. It’s true, but the timing was so, so perfect for Cersei and so, so bad for Ned. Literally any other time and she’d have been SOL.
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Jun 1, 2019 06:42
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Sometimes the sun shines on a dog's rear end. And, grand scheme of things, better for everyone that Cersei beat Ned. Imagine Ned being around when the mad queen shows up to kill everyone and the North is led by honorable Ned instead of a horny aunt-fucker.
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Jun 1, 2019 06:47
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imagine the civil war being stan and the north and tullys vs tywin vs maybe renly/highgarden vs the iron islands
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Jun 1, 2019 06:52
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If Ned won that round, Stannis or Renly go on the Throne, right? Can't imagine how well they'd react to Dany showing up. Meanwhile Ned looks at that shitshow and feels increasingly vindicated in keeping quiet about R+L=J.
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Jun 1, 2019 08:39
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:Bobby B is only around 29 years old in the books. 36
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Jun 1, 2019 09:32
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Food Boner posted:
Hoster Tully dies of it.
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Jun 1, 2019 11:34
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Food Boner posted:i mean drinking that much strongwine ought to cause liver failure at some point surely or... esophageal cancer??? "Crabs in my belly."
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Jun 1, 2019 12:16
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YaketySass posted:If Ned won that round, Stannis or Renly go on the Throne, right? Can't imagine how well they'd react to Dany showing up. Stannis would take the thrown without needing to go to war. And he would have snuffed out Dany within a month of being king. He wouldn't take the chance of leaving her alive over there. It would have been an endless stream of shadow assassins until one of them got her.
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Jun 1, 2019 12:23
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Ague Proof posted:"Crabs in my belly." That seems like an overly figurative interpretation of what killed Tully.
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Jun 1, 2019 12:25
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Solice Kirsk posted:Stannis would take the thrown without needing to go to war. And he would have snuffed out Dany within a month of being king. He wouldn't take the chance of leaving her alive over there. It would have been an endless stream of shadow assassins until one of them got her. How do you even defend yourself against just one of them?
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Jun 1, 2019 12:56
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Solice Kirsk posted:Stannis would take the thrown without needing to go to war. And he would have snuffed out Dany within a month of being king. He wouldn't take the chance of leaving her alive over there. It would have been an endless stream of shadow assassins until one of them got her. He probably would've caused a religious civil war, though.
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Jun 1, 2019 13:15
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MikeJF posted:He probably would've caused a religious civil war, though. Over what? The church was almost entirely in the crowns pocket. If he was just subtle about how he. Okay no you're right he'd have caused a civil war because he'd probably have outlawed worship of the Seven straight up and started executing the church leadership without thought, because "it was right."
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Jun 1, 2019 13:35
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pseudanonymous posted:Over what? The church was almost entirely in the crowns pocket. If he was just subtle about how he. Okay no you're right he'd have caused a civil war because he'd probably have outlawed worship of the Seven straight up and started executing the church leadership without thought, because "it was right." Stannis is generally incredibly pragmatic about religious matters, he only gives a poo poo as far as it advances his goals. His public image as an uncompromizing terminator obfuscates the fact that he can be pretty canny when he has the opportunity to be so.
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Jun 1, 2019 13:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:Stannis would take the thrown without needing to go to war. Yea but would he have taken the throne after that?
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Jun 1, 2019 13:59
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RCarr posted:Yea but would he have taken the throne after that? presumably Stannis would expect Shireen to be his heir, as he does in canon but the lords of westeros have always gone to any lengths to avoid having a queen regnant, so probably they'd end up doing a Great Council situation and installing renly (if he survived in this hypothetical) or some distant cousin as heir
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Jun 1, 2019 14:42
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Surely Shireen would've been married in this scenario.
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Jun 1, 2019 14:45
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shireen was his heir after renly died. at the parlay he offered to name renly his designated heir until he had a son didnt he?
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Jun 1, 2019 14:47
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one thing i'm not clear on is when Renly graduated from generally scheming for influence (like anyone would do) to wanting himself to be king at the beginning of AGOT he just wants to replace cersei with margaery. He might've discovered the incest scandal and seen an opportunity to gain a bunch of influence for himself, or he might've been put up to it entirely by the tyrells, but so far as we know he was not scheming to be heir himself at that point then later he crowns himself had he decided he wanted to be king yet by the time he made the coup offer to Ned? I don't remember if this scenario happens before he's decided to be king, then sure, maybe a sufficiently strong consensus of lords could persuade him to accept some power sharing deal where he'd just be stannis's heir, maybe heir+hand (a combo the targs used often) or regent presumptive for any hypothetical sons of stannis MikeJF posted:Surely Shireen would've been married in this scenario. having a prince-consort lined up doesn't seem to help w/ westeros's general aversion to queens regnant the past female targaryen heirs that were passed over were often married
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Jun 1, 2019 15:03
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PupsOfWar posted:having a prince-consort lined up doesn't seem to help w/ westeros's general aversion to queens regnant I was thinking King by marriage, not prince-consort. Maybe he'd loop around, legitimise Edric as his heir, and marry him to Shireen. Keep it in house Baratheon. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 15:10
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renly is a really ambiguous figure when you think about it in general i dont like most book -> show changes (even the minor understandable/unavoidable ones), but i can approve of their attempts to make ol' renly more sympathetic in the books, there is iirc never any implication he is anything other than some rear end in a top hat who decided he could be king because he has a lot of friends
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Jun 1, 2019 15:11
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PupsOfWar posted:renly is a really ambiguous figure when you think about it That's what he is in the show too, the narration just decides that makes him sympathetic.
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Jun 1, 2019 15:13
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he decides he should be king because the most powerful lord in the kingdom says "ill make you king" and he would have won if stan didnt gank him
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Jun 1, 2019 15:15
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YaketySass posted:That's what he is in the show too, the narration just decides that makes him sympathetic. show renly seems to have some sorta vague populist values & a belief that aggressive martinets like robert (and most westerosi lords) are Bad for the realm that's not much, but it's a lot more than book renly has PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 15:17
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PupsOfWar posted:show renly seems to have some sorta vague populist values & a belief that aggressive martinets like robert (and most westerosi lords) are Bad for the realm Book Renly talks about how Stannis would make a horrible king, be totally merciless etc.. whereas he is beloved and some other stuff iirc. I don't know that Renly ever really "decides" he wants to be king. But I think the medieval noble mindset was basically every lord wants to be a high lord and every high lord wants to be king. I mean just think about today. Someone like Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffet. They have enough money for basically anything. There's virtually nothing they can't buy now that they couldn't buy with more money. But do they quit working and live their lives? No they still put in like 60 hour weeks. I think being born noble would similarly break your brain. Never having to work and literally goofing off all the time doing whatever your please? Nah better plot dangerously and put your life at risk so you can sit on a slightly higher pointier chair. *edit missed the word sit. pseudanonymous fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 15:30
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Countless examples of the same thing happening throughout history. Alexander the Great's body was barely cold when his top lieutenants all started trying to murder each other and become his sole successor. The number of people who have risen to be second-in-command without turning into Starscream are vanishingly rare - Agrippa was one of them, and he's likely responsible for most of Octavian's success as Emperor.
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Jun 1, 2019 15:43
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Kylaer posted:Countless examples of the same thing happening throughout history. Alexander the Great's body was barely cold when his top lieutenants all started trying to murder each other and become his sole successor. The number of people who have risen to be second-in-command without turning into Starscream are vanishingly rare - Agrippa was one of them, and he's likely responsible for most of Octavian's success as Emperor. I loved Starscream. I still love him. I love Starscream.
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Jun 1, 2019 15:46
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pseudanonymous posted:But do they quit working and live their lives? No they still put in like 60 hour weeks. yes, about that  it's bullshit
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Jun 1, 2019 15:51
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1994 Toyota Celica posted:yes, about that That's a 10-year-old survey by an organization that, as far as I can tell, exists to suck off CEO's. They get the data from their assistants. Guess what. CEO's are liars. If their assistants want to keep their jobs they are liars too. Do i think CEO's work all the time they are "at work" no of course not. What I'm getting at is they are hollowed out shells of human beings. Maybe they take 2 hour executive lunches or gently caress their massage therapist "on the clock" but they don't have any real identity or purpose outside being that business guy.
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Jun 1, 2019 16:27
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PupsOfWar posted:one thing i'm not clear on is when Renly graduated from generally scheming for influence (like anyone would do) to wanting himself to be king I imagine he was heavily influenced by the Tyrells and it wouldn't take much nudging from Loras/Marge to make him realize how big an army he could easily rally to his cause.
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Jun 1, 2019 17:15
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Renly went on and on on how Stannis was too dour and dry and uncompromising but in reality the Mannis was all chuckles and wit and being willing to work with anyone and change his point of view
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Jun 1, 2019 18:13
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1994 Toyota Celica posted:yes, about that subtract that 20 hours of "gym and stuff" time and they put in a 35 hour work week when the rest of the world doesn't get paid lunches and does all their "gym and stuff" on their own time.
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Jun 1, 2019 18:15
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is it ever said when robert made renly lord of storms end? like he was 8 or some poo poo at the end of the rebellion wasnt he?
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Jun 1, 2019 18:21
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violent sex idiot posted:is it ever said when robert made renly lord of storms end? like he was 8 or some poo poo at the end of the rebellion wasnt he? renly was 6 at the end of the rebellion, a lil babby I don't think Robert's rationale for that move is ever referenced in the books always figured it was that the Narrow Sea lords were the oldest and most determined targaryen loyalists, so Bob wanted a reliable, harsh commander in place to keep an eye on em one of the show tie-in lore summaries however implies that it was a punishment - Robert was so mad that Stannis failed to capture Viserys and Dany that he stripped him of Storm's End. One of several cases where those tie-ins embelleished or elaborated on backstory from the books. Always wondered who wrote those.
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Jun 1, 2019 19:01
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