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I think the key element to a lot of what this thread talks about when we talk about urban fantasy is the specific addition of noir/crime novel elements. (Like, people call, say, Charles De Lint's and Neil Gaiman's work urban fantasy too, but it's really a different beast altogether.) But really the reason I'm posting is to bring up my favorite 'take every classic horror character and throw them into a blender' novel ever, A Night In The Lonesome October by Roger Zelazny, which you are all directed to go out and read at once.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:11
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docbeard posted:But really the reason I'm posting is to bring up my favorite 'take every classic horror character and throw them into a blender' novel ever, A Night In The Lonesome October by Roger Zelazny, which you are all directed to go out and read at once. Also I finally managed to get my hands on Expiration Date and Earthquake Weather which should be the last two Tim Powers books I haven't read yet. Hooray.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:28
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anilEhilated posted:I was about to verbosely disagree with the first paragraph but this one rings so true it's all forgotten. To be clear, I don't think urban fantasy has to be Raymond Chandler + Vampires (or Stan Lee + Vampires, for that matter), just that a lot of the usual Similar To The Dresden Files suspects that are discussed in this thread are. quote:Also I finally managed to get my hands on Expiration Date and Earthquake Weather which should be the last two Tim Powers books I haven't read yet. Hooray. I haven't read Earthquake Weather but I remember enjoying Expiration Date a fair bit. I think it was the first Powers I read, actually.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:57
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Skippy McPants posted:.... All that said, I agree we could do with a bit less of Dresden getting beaten to a pulp, but it's also not a trope I expect to go away any time soon. It's kind of a staple in the noir genre, I really don't get the complaints on this.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:09
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docbeard posted:But really the reason I'm posting is to bring up my favorite 'take every classic horror character and throw them into a blender' novel ever, A Night In The Lonesome October by Roger Zelazny, which you are all directed to go out and read at once. In all honesty, a shitload of the Not-Chronicles-of-Amber stuff Zelazny wrote would be right up everyone's alley if they enjoy Dresden and some of the other books we talk about lately. A Night In The Lonesome October does set a fairly high bar though. EDIT: Hell, even the Chronicles of Amber stuff might still work.
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Aug 26, 2016 20:41
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Wade Wilson posted:In all honesty, a shitload of the Not-Chronicles-of-Amber stuff Zelazny wrote would be right up everyone's alley if they enjoy Dresden and some of the other books we talk about lately. I honestly need to read way more of Zelazny's stuff than I have.
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Aug 26, 2016 20:53
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docbeard posted:I honestly need to read way more of Zelazny's stuff than I have. EDIT: Hang on, that Goodreads list isn't actually just Zelazny. Here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Zelazny_bibliography Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 20:57
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Spun Dog posted:It's kind of a staple in the noir genre, I really don't get the complaints on this. I suppose the difference is that Marlowe doesn't have super powers or gain a new level of Super Saiyan every other book. It creates very different expectations to straight noir.
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Aug 27, 2016 10:19
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The weird thing about Dresden is that I know exactly how super powered he is, how capable he is, and how dangerous he is, but I never think of him as being 'overpowered'. I don't know if it has something to do with his voice, or the slow build up from the beginning or what, but he still feels less powerful than Superlative Shifter #445 or a Green Beret SEAL Sniper Demolitions Expert that so commonly end up playing the hero in pulpy books.
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Aug 27, 2016 17:50
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The weird thing about Dresden is that I know exactly how super powered he is, how capable he is, and how dangerous he is, but I never think of him as being 'overpowered'. It's because butcher writes the ending of action scenes well enough that you get past "wait he just broke fundamental physics over his knee" and instead spend your time wondering "well that didn't go as planned, what's next". It's probably butcher's greatest gift as a writer, he pulls you through action sequences and keeps pulling once they end.
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Aug 27, 2016 17:58
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I just literally did a double-take since I'm reading NerdyMcNerdNerd's posts in the retail thread, see that the Dresden Files thread has a new post, then think I'm still reading the retail hell one. I'm still 40 pages behind in the other one, but I hope you got the hell out of that job, NerdyMcNerdNerd. And yeah, Harry's got a bit of power creep going, but it's kind of a side effect of the series shifting from a down on his luck PI who happens to be a wizard and into something that's a lot closer to epic fantasy, but in Chicago.
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Aug 27, 2016 18:00
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Anias posted:It's because butcher writes the ending of action scenes well enough that you get past "wait he just broke fundamental physics over his knee" and instead spend your time wondering "well that didn't go as planned, what's next". It's probably butcher's greatest gift as a writer, he pulls you through action sequences and keeps pulling once they end. Definitely part of it. Most of the books have the urgency of a ticking time bomb in a pressure cooker, and Butcher does a good job with finales. I'm in the last few chapters of Turn Coat at the moment and man, it is one of my favorite build ups. I think the other part of it is the characters that Harry surrounds himself with. Murphy, Mouse, Michael, Butters, Bob, etc. They aren't just tools for Harry, they're characters with their own goals and motivations that can potentially die or get hurt. It raises the stakes when they step out with him, because they often aren't as pyrotechnic. It seems like an obvious thing to say, but man, it sure does suck when you're reading a book and you realize everyone helping the protagonist exists only to help him or die in service of the plot. WarLocke posted:I'm still 40 pages behind in the other one, but I hope you got the hell out of that job, NerdyMcNerdNerd. I won't spoil it. Keep reading. It'll give you something to do while we wait for Peace Talks. 
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Aug 28, 2016 04:13
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The weird thing about Dresden is that I know exactly how super powered he is, how capable he is, and how dangerous he is, but I never think of him as being 'overpowered'. Dresden also fights enemies who are way above his level. He's crazy powerful, but his enemies are gods and crazier powerfuler wizards and vampire lords and fallen angels and poo poo. So even though he's way more powerful than Supershifter #257, , the shifter is probably closer in power to his enemies than Dresden is to Cowl/Red King/Shagnasty/etc
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Aug 28, 2016 05:03
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Wheat Loaf posted:I feel like Dracula must almost be a prototype for UF in some way. Alongside the likes of The Picture of Dorian Grey, Frankenstein, The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde etc. Dracula's weird, because it's almost a Victorian CSI procedural. It's hard to notice these days but Dracula is full of then-cutting edge technology being employed by the protagonists to take down old world threats: wax cylinders, blood transfusions, Americans, and psychology were loving cyberpunk by the standards of the day. Even Van Helsing is a modernized figure as compared to the priest that normally would have stood in for an anti-evil authority.
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Aug 31, 2016 15:11
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:... Dracula is full of then-cutting edge technology ... Americans, ... I almost performed a spit-take at my desk. 
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Aug 31, 2016 17:01
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Because Schaefer's gonna Schaefer, The White Gold Score (the Faust novella he wrote because he felt bad people were gonna have to wait a whole year between books, then gave out as a freebie before putting it on sale) is free again for the next couple of days on Amazon. It's set between the first two books, but IMO it pretty much reads fine as a stand-alone. Magic, guns, violence, cocaine, fun.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:50
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StonecutterJoe posted:Because Schaefer's gonna Schaefer, The White Gold Score (the Faust novella he wrote because he felt bad people were gonna have to wait a whole year between books, then gave out as a freebie before putting it on sale) is free again for the next couple of days on Amazon. It's set between the first two books, but IMO it pretty much reads fine as a stand-alone. Magic, guns, violence, cocaine, fun. Hey, thanks. This might actually get me to download a Kindle reader app.
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Sep 1, 2016 15:25
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I've been setting up this book club at my office and I've lent out my copies of The Rook and Midnight Riot to my coworkers-they love them so far. Anyone else lend their UF books to non-UF readers? What was their response?
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Sep 1, 2016 21:27
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Sorry, I just give out copies of Small Gods. I'm not getting them back, but I'm distributing fantasy books like a Mormon.
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Sep 2, 2016 03:08
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I've got a Bridge of Birds that's basically been touring the country ever since I managed to bring it from more civilized parts of the world.
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Sep 2, 2016 08:42
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Enjoying the heck out of John Charming, thanks thread!  thrakkorzog posted:Sorry, I just give out copies of Small Gods. I'm not getting them back, but I'm distributing fantasy books like a Mormon. You're doing the Lord's work.
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Sep 2, 2016 15:41
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mistaya posted:... The Lord of the Rings work.
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Sep 2, 2016 15:56
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mistaya posted:Enjoying the heck out of John Charming, thanks thread! Same here. On "In Shining Armor" right now.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:42
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Benny the Snake posted:I've been setting up this book club at my office and I've lent out my copies of The Rook and Midnight Riot to my coworkers-they love them so far. Anyone else lend their UF books to non-UF readers? What was their response? Closest I've been to this is sharing Neverwhere and American Gods with coworkers.
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Sep 3, 2016 04:43
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Hi All, Thanks to everyone who asked for an ARC - I hope everyone (about 50 people) received them and enjoyed. I've now published on Amazon (and createspace), so if anyone is looking for a read over the Labour Day weekend (especially with the dry spell at the moment in terms of UF reads) then my book is available (still waiting on Amazon to merge the different formats). Kindle - https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Job-Dr...eam+job+gregory Paper copies - https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Job-Dreamwalker-Chronicles-1/dp/1536875422/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472928366&sr=8-1&keywords=dream+job+gregory gerg_861 posted:Hi All - longtime goon and occasional visitor to this thread. I've read pretty much everything on the recommendation list (except for the Iron Druid), and then I ran into a bad run of garbage UF that made me say "I can write better than that." So to put my money where my mouth is, I've written a book. I'm looking to send out some digital advance review copies, and am happy to send one to any goon that messages me (please include an e-mail address that I can send the file to).
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Sep 3, 2016 19:47
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I went to Butcher's solo panel today (at DragonCon). The only new bits of info that I don't recall seeing reported elsewhere are that Lucifer won't show up until the BAT and that Jim plans a spinoff series set in the same world once he's done with Harry's story. In next-book news, don't hold your breath. Jim is effectively homeless right now (crashing with his fiance) because construction on his house is over six months behind schedule. So between not having a dedicated writing space and losing his dog last year (apparently the pup was with him for all, or nearly all, of his other books), he can't make any headway.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:34
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Anyone read the Kate Daniels books? I'd avoided them for years based on the titles and covers, but that was a huge mistake. Though they look like paranormal romance, they're basically the Dresden Files meets Mindspace Investigations. Tearing through them now.
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Sep 4, 2016 16:08
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They start out pretty well and the series as a whole isn't terrible, but the romance aspect gets more and more prominent with every book unfortunately. It depends on your tolerance of the word "alpha" and bullshit shapeshifter politics & romance. It's been a while since I read them, but I seem to recall the novellas (especiall the ones with alternate POVs) are good, so read them if you can get them.
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Sep 4, 2016 17:03
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Apoffys posted:They start out pretty well and the series as a whole isn't terrible, but the romance aspect gets more and more prominent with every book unfortunately. It depends on your tolerance of the word "alpha" and bullshit shapeshifter politics & romance. I just finished Book 4 so it might change down the way, but so far, even with the romance, it doesn't have any of the problems with the genre - there's an outside plot that's still the driving force, it isn't 90% descriptions of sex, it's not a terrible love triangle, and Kate is a full character with motivations and goals of her own. So far, I wouldn't put the romance aspects any worse than Dresden, really.
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Sep 4, 2016 17:39
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There weren't all that many sex scenes, so maybe I'm wrong to blame the romance aspect for why I started to dislike the series. I just felt that the books ended up being way too heavily focused on the shapeshifter pack, being more about them coming to rescue the helpless heroine rather than the heroine kicking rear end on her own. It's been a while since I read them though, so my memories of the plot are a bit fuzzy.
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Sep 4, 2016 19:25
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I the later books she gets pretty drat powerful on her own merits (she starts mastering her undead-vampire-blood powers, making blood armor and junk, and at one point magically pulls all the blood out of someone to remove a lycanthropy infection, then puts all the blood back). While I agree that the whole pack and romance thing got a little grating, Daniels always give a good accounting of herself (and while she usually can't handle things solo, that's because she's usually fighting things way the gently caress over her level, even worse than the stuff Dresden faces for the most part).
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Sep 4, 2016 19:30
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WarLocke posted:I the later books she gets pretty drat powerful on her own merits (she starts mastering her undead-vampire-blood powers, making blood armor and junk, and at one point magically pulls all the blood out of someone to remove a lycanthropy infection, then puts all the blood back). Like her dad. Dude is a legit god by every definition.
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Sep 4, 2016 20:11
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The latest book in the Night Watch series came out and I have to say I'm just sort of burned out on the franchise at this point.. The last three or four books were "this is the ending, for real, for real this times" and they got excessively large in scale but it mostly worked out because it was ending. So the latest book ending with "and you fought DOUBLE GOD and everything who died came back to life" is a weak ending even before the lackluster "Anton lost his powers forever. The End" ending. I assume another book is coming down the line but this particular book just ends in a ridiculously rushed and unsatisfying way. if it's really the final book (which seems unlikely) then it's an incredibly lovely ending.
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Sep 4, 2016 20:13
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Wait why the gently caress didn't that series end with the fourth one where they literally dismantled the hell they had accidentally made and produced the literal second coming of Christ?
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Sep 4, 2016 20:31
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Magres posted:Wait why the gently caress didn't that series end with the fourth one where they literally dismantled the hell they had accidentally made and produced the literal second coming of Christ? Nope! You'd think so but it kept going. The book after that is kind of a smaller and more personal book so it doesn't feel quite as bad as the sixth book which ratchets up the giant world threat and the ridiculous reveals.
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Sep 4, 2016 20:35
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ImpAtom posted:The latest book in the Night Watch series came out and I have to say I'm just sort of burned out on the franchise at this point.. Oh he subcontracted actually writing them to others now, there's like a dozen of non-Lukyanenko Watch books out in Russia.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:16
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Megazver posted:Oh he subcontracted actually writing them to others now, there's like a dozen of non-Lukyanenko Watch books out in Russia. Huh, how about that! That explains a lot.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:23
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Only read the first Kate Daniels so far. Would recommend at least that one. Juuuuuust finished polishing off Ghost Story. It was more enjoyable than I remembered it, but it is easy to see why people might not like it. The book goes through an awful lot of trouble to set up a lot of stuff that won't pay off for years to come. This time around, I caught a few things I didn't catch before. About Mort: We learn that he's quite a potent little wizard. He's said to be in Harry's ballpark- but he lives in a modern house. He drives a very modern car. He 'replaces his cellphone every so often'. That draws comparison to the way Harry's aura plays merry hell with technology, but it also points to Mort being a significant character in the next few books. Lea talks about how if Harry hadn't killed Bianca, Lea herself would have taken her pound of flesh from the vampire. Stuff for Mirror Mirror, maybe? With He-Who-Walks-Behind, it points out how Harry hadn't actually defeated him. Their encounter was merely a nudge that sent Harry on the path down to fighting fire with fire, maybe for He-Who's motivations, something Lea comments on somewhat specifically. It could be something that Lea herself ( or someone else ) might have had a hand in. There's some other stuff, too, like establishing that beings of sufficient strength can shut a wizard's sight. The book also talks about how most wizards don't tend to take illusions very seriously because of their sight, so... maybe something.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:46
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Apoffys posted:There weren't all that many sex scenes, so maybe I'm wrong to blame the romance aspect for why I started to dislike the series. I just felt that the books ended up being way too heavily focused on the shapeshifter pack, being more about them coming to rescue the helpless heroine rather than the heroine kicking rear end on her own. It's been a while since I read them though, so my memories of the plot are a bit fuzzy. I felt like once the romance got into gear the protagonist, despite all her considerable power, kept getting put in pseudo-damsel roles where she had to wait for her overmuscled billionaire alpha werelion packlord boyfriend to come rescue her so she could sigh about how perfect he is and how he will always be there for her. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:About Mort: We learn that he's quite a potent little wizard. He's said to be in Harry's ballpark- but he lives in a modern house. He drives a very modern car. He 'replaces his cellphone every so often'. That draws comparison to the way Harry's aura plays merry hell with technology, but it also points to Mort being a significant character in the next few books. Mort isn't a wizard. Mort is an ectomancer. He does ghost and only ghosts. This is why he has to borrow Ghost Harry to shield himself instead of doing it himself.
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Sep 5, 2016 00:11
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Khizan posted:
To build on that, Mort is like Binder. He's probably better and way more powerful at his one trick than Harry could ever be, but he's only got the one trick. Harry is still way beyond his league because he could theoretically do just about anything, including the one trick Mort and Binder have.
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Sep 5, 2016 02:24
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