|
i encountered this on twitter and this is a fantastic loving idea. most tail light problems are with the bulb, and getting to them is relatively easy if you know how to do it (but that's like 90% of it right there). makes me angry at myself that i didn't think of it.
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:14 |
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:His work with CWA and how that relates to CLEAT was clarified by him, after the fact. A fake linkedin account isn't substantiation even if it contained true information. The outrage train sure as hell didn't slow down to wait for the facts to come out. So now that the facts have come out, what "process" must still unfold before you'll find people's calls for him to resign satisfactory? Or are you just going to keep acting like the guy gets a free pass because some people on twitter were idiots last week?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:16
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:His work with CWA and how that relates to CLEAT was clarified by him, after the fact. A fake linkedin account isn't substantiation even if it contained true information. The outrage train sure as hell didn't slow down to wait for the facts to come out. In a way that makes it clear he was working with CLEAT. It's not unsubstantiated and his own statement should honestly have been grounds to ask him to step down right then and there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:18
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:sorry I know everyone is tired of me posting this but please read if you're trying to talk in good faith and not just score internet owns: #5 is the crux of it. The fact that this even became a public conversation indicates a hugely dysfunctional organization.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:18
|
|
|
Ronald McReagan posted:So now that the facts have come out, what "process" must still unfold before you'll find people's calls for him to resign satisfactory? Or are you just going to keep acting like the guy gets a free pass because some people on twitter were idiots last week? optimistically for me it would be statements released by chapters that show they actually understand the nature and scope of his work and then a membership wide vote to recall
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:19
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:20
|
|
|
I mean at this point I don't really think Danny should be on the NPc because he is so,goddamned bad at messaging, but I'm not sure I think it's standing or good precedent to boot him for any of the events that led up to his election
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:21
|
|
|
oh yeah forgot to add to my list his reference to state workers refers to the Texas state employees union which he helped found, which does not represent cops
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:because politics is about winning and if some random cop is standing between you and a mass of potential recruits and a wider outreach to African Americans then really who gives a poo poo about abandoning one cop? leadership means you get the approval and trust of your followers, if they dont trust you as a result of one of your members being shady, then kick him off to the curb so that the larger goal succeeds. I don't really give a poo poo about this guy in particular. I just don't like the immediate cannibalization over internet rumors. He's not a cop. So it's not cool to kick him out for being a cop. I'm fine with kicking him out if it is what's best for the DSA and he's actually a problem for recruitment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:23
|
|
|
speaking of unions, what kind of outreach (if any) is being made to major us unions and / or their memberships?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:27
|
|
|
MrWilderheap posted:I don't really give a poo poo about this guy in particular. I just don't like the immediate cannibalization over internet rumors. He's not a cop. So it's not cool to kick him out for being a cop. I'm fine with kicking him out if it is what's best for the DSA and he's actually a problem for recruitment. Purging people with actual organizing experience because the real world is complicated might help recruitment in the short term but the organization is just going to bleed those people when it lacks direction and effectiveness due to a lack of institutional knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:27
|
|
|
like if the dsa sf justice committee or whoever wrote that statement actually spoke to Danny and walked away with that narrative from it, that's Danny's fault and he's proven that he's unable to manage this messaging crisis at all. I'm still not sure that there's any legit cause to call his election invalid or anything. I think leaders should be subject to immediate recall so I'd like a 20/8% (or whatever we voted on)motion to force a vote on his recall and then proceed with the npc 2/3 or whatever vote. that feels way more like process to me than google docs and random working group statements/petitions
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
Annual Prophet posted:speaking of unions, what kind of outreach (if any) is being made to major us unions and / or their memberships? we're trying to kick out any organizers that worked for them
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Purging people with actual organizing experience because the real world is complicated might help recruitment in the short term but the organization is just going to bleed those people when it lacks direction and effectiveness due to a lack of institutional knowledge. I also think it makes us look naive and unserious
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:I also think it makes us look naive and unserious That too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Purging people with actual organizing experience because the real world is complicated might help recruitment in the short term but the organization is just going to bleed those people when it lacks direction and effectiveness due to a lack of institutional knowledge. Oh please. DSA chapters are full of people who understand organizing and understand unions. Over half of the people who ran for NPC had backgrounds in labor either as union activists or attorney/researcher types.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:I also think it makes us look naive and unserious I asked my chapter's Meme Chairman and they said they completely agree. Long live Larry Website.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:35
|
|
|
I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and wait for the process do its thing, but at this point I agree with the sentiment that the dude just needs to step down. He can run again next election cycle. It's the difference between being stubborn and thinking of himself, and being graceful and thinking of the org at large. Denver DSA voted unanimously to wait until the weekend of the 26th and if the issue isn't resolved, to call for his resignation. We didn't want to dog-pile on and wanted to give Danny and the NPC a chance to resolve the issue, but it's pretty clear at this point he's not going to be the bigger person and step down for the org.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
Ronald McReagan posted:Oh please. DSA chapters are full of people who understand organizing and understand unions. Over half of the people who ran for NPC had backgrounds in labor either as union activists or attorney/researcher types. my guess is that they weren't the ones pouring gas on the internet fires defining the narrative from the few hours after the convention onward
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:39
|
|
|
Internet Explorer posted:I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and wait for the process do its thing, but at this point I agree with the sentiment that the dude just needs to step down. He can run again next election cycle. It's the difference between being stubborn and thinking of himself, and being graceful and thinking of the org at large. Denver DSA voted unanimously to wait until the weekend of the 26th and if the issue isn't resolved, to call for his resignation. We didn't want to dog-pile on and wanted to give Danny and the NPC a chance to resolve the issue, but it's pretty clear at this point he's not going to be the bigger person and step down for the org. this is a good take but what about the mediator lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:like if the dsa sf justice committee or whoever wrote that statement actually spoke to Danny and walked away with that narrative from it, that's Danny's fault and he's proven that he's unable to manage this messaging crisis at all. In what way is saying that there are good police unions and bad police unions and that police should have the ability to organize like other workers a failure of messaging? Maybe it's just that the guy believes some lovely things that are at odds with how he presented himself in the run up to and at the convention, and with what a lot of people want out of a leader? Maybe we should just take him at face value rather than twist into knots trying to excuse the things he says and does?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:this is a good take but what about the mediator lol I don't see how it matters at this point if the vast majority of chapters are calling for him to step down. I don't really care what the rules and bylaws are, if 90% of the org wants him to step down, he's going to be outed or the org is going to fracture. And for the record we also agreed to have verbiage that it was his not being upfront that was the problem and to also condemn the ONLINE PEOPLES reaction and to ask for the org to enforce its anti-harassment bylaws and start kicking people out for being idiots.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:43
|
|
|
Organizing police unions is really loving easy when you're supported and militarized and given funding by the government and when you're the enforcer of the interests of the powers that be, like I dont get how that type of union activity is impressive or wanted since they wouldnt have faced any sort of challenge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
Ronald McReagan posted:In what way is saying that there are good police unions and bad police unions and that police should have the ability to organize like other workers a failure of messaging? Maybe it's just that the guy believes some lovely things that are at odds with how he presented himself in the run up to and at the convention, and with what a lot of people want out of a leader? Maybe we should just take him at face value rather than twist into knots trying to excuse the things he says and does? no his messaging sucks as do many of his politics (imo). viewing cops as state workers is classic old school bad dsa viewpoint but we aren't dem centralist and that's not so at odds with our core values that he can be purged for it. he voted for police abolition. i mean you could make the argument that danny thinking cops are state workers is a counter viewpoint within the org that he was elected to rep. that's the kind of org we are. we don't have well defined limits on what acceptable politics are, which is why we have these problems.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:46
|
|
|
Yeahhh if the dudes reaction to comrades getting hospitalized is "there's good cops and bad cops", dudes gonna cause way more harm than good
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Organizing police unions is really loving easy when you're supported and militarized and given funding by the government and when you're the enforcer of the interests of the powers that be, like I dont get how that type of union activity is impressive or wanted since they wouldnt have faced any sort of challenge. it's his wealth of other union work that he was elected for. you can read my old posts in this thread about that. he mostly organized telephone workers through his career. employed by the communication workers of america
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:48
|
|
|
the npc is taking a long time with this because they're forming a troika
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:50
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:no his messaging sucks as do many of his politics (imo). viewing cops as state workers is classic old school bad dsa viewpoint but we aren't dem centralist and that's not so at odds with our core values that he can be purged for it. he voted for police abolition. We have these problems because he -- intentionally or unintentionally, but certainly conveniently either way -- failed to disclose his past history working with police unions (which he later revealed to be more extensive than he was even accused of (by adults) at first). If he had given even the faintest whiff anywhere in his NPC candidate statement or anywhere else that his past organizing had involved police unions, and had been elected despite that, I would be disappointed but would accept it and move on. But that's not what happened here. You hide your radical views so you can take control of reactionary organizations, not the other way around.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:the npc is taking a long time with this because they're forming a troika i was wrong about everything cadre is the way to go and i don't know how i got in this deep with this group
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
what do the teens think
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:it's his wealth of other union work that he was elected for. you can read my old posts in this thread about that. he mostly organized telephone workers through his career. employed by the communication workers of america What happened to Danny is bad but he should know how the wind is blowing on this one That letter from SF is a pretty big strike 3 when we have comrades getting arrested in NC while the nazis that assaulted us in Cville go free
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Pretty much agree with this letter. Dude hosed up and could have probably bought back some good will by admitting he made a gently caress up while stepping down, but lol I guess being an obstinate dumbass feels better. And as far as I know they aren't trying to completely kick him out of the DSA, so he can still do good work for Austin. Ronald McReagan posted:We have these problems because he -- intentionally or unintentionally, but certainly conveniently either way -- failed to disclose his past history working with police unions (which he later revealed to be more extensive than he was even accused of (by adults) at first). If he had given even the faintest whiff anywhere in his NPC candidate statement or anywhere else that his past organizing had involved police unions, and had been elected despite that, I would be disappointed but would accept it and move on. But that's not what happened here. This right here. BadOptics has issued a correction as of 04:58 on Aug 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:54
|
|
|
bump_fn posted:what do the teens think they say "barbecue fat boy fetonte" if u bothered to read the statement he wrote
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
I will say, I do think we need to make a Goon DSA Caucus. [Edit: Call it Goonfleet, GoonSwarm, whatever works for me.]
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:they say "barbecue fat boy fetonte" if u bothered to read the statement he wrote what regional BBQ style THIS IS IMPORTANT
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
Today I went to my first working group and got very pumped about solidarity economy it was pretty cool
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
deep web creep posted:Today I went to my first working group and got very pumped about solidarity economy Good on you!
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
most interesting thing to me has been the huge generational divide I've seen between old dsa and young dsa in whether Danny did a bad thing. really it's just proof to me that entryism can work and the young radicals have managed to infiltrate and reform the dsa from its old socdem ways
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
bump_fn posted:what regional BBQ style THIS IS IMPORTANT while he's from tx it's gotta be pulled pork in this case
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:14 |
|
|
jarofpiss posted:while he's from tx it's gotta be pulled pork in this case Show me a Texan who claims to BBQ and I'll show you a liar. Eastern NC pulled pork 4 lyfe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2017 05:07
|
|