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Toxxupation posted:man Because hussie's big plan all along was these alpha kids taking over. Which was fine when homestuck was going to be a year. But to have a story suddenly lose all existing character development saps the life out of it. There's no characterization or plot he could have given these kids that would fix the pacing problems of that story structure. Luckily it slowly comes back together.
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Aug 4, 2015 18:40
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Burkion posted:Just wait Stop making coy words with your stupid Internet face
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Aug 4, 2015 18:51
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Oxxidation posted:Stop making coy words with your stupid Internet face Teenagers will be talking in Homestuck? Perish the thought! Though for real, when did he drop out of reading it again? He's said stuff about Aranea but I forget if he ever got to Game Over or not. I don't want to actually spoil certain things because holy poo poo his reaction would be priceless
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Aug 4, 2015 19:01
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Burkion posted:Teenagers will be talking in Homestuck? He tried to reread but dropped it again around Act 2 or so (he's easily distracted). Once he hit Hivebent on this go-round he was able to grit his teeth and go in for the long haul.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:02
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Oxxidation posted:He tried to reread but dropped it again around Act 2 or so (he's easily distracted). Once he hit Hivebent on this go-round he was able to grit his teeth and go in for the long haul. This will be fun. Also no wonder he has such awful opinions of Act 6 as a whole.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:04
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I'm assuming that the implied rule is that we don't spoiler-tag in general, but we also don't spend time taunting Toxx with hints about what lies ahead? Good. I just noticed this from the whole lilypad sequence: quote:VRISKA: 8UT, as I mentioned, in the event Jade wakes up for some reason, she should 8e reserved exclusively for this fight. [dog-tier Jack] Still waiting to see if the red note is from Dave, Karkat, or Terezi (it being her favorite color).
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Aug 4, 2015 19:11
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So I just read the pony pals section it was hilarious, but it's so disappointing that's one of dirk's only real moments of competence and now all that's left is him bein a creepy awful weirdo
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Aug 4, 2015 19:47
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Toxxupation posted:So I just read the pony pals section Okay so I don't know where it is but BUT Some one actually made that a real thing. This is a thing that exists on the internet and I hope some one saved the link to it and can repost it. Some one perfectly recreated Pony Pals as Hussie as Dirk with all of the fuckery and amazing quality involved. For the ENTIRE BOOK. It is one of the best things crafted by this fandom. And I wouldn't doubt if Hussie himself was behind it
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Aug 4, 2015 19:49
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The thing is, Dirk gets better. He realizes what a jerk he's been and he tries to make amends. If you reread the post-trickster pre-God-Tier section, Dirk apologizes to Jane, talks about what he admires about Roxy (and asks Jane to convey it), and regrets what he did to Jake. Jake doesn't own up to any of his own mistakes. DIrk is a manipulative jerk who tries to get better. Jake is a passive, self-centered (see poor Jane's birthday) victim who collapses into depression. One can see good qualities in Dirk that need to be encouraged. I can't say the same for Jake. I think Jakes biggest problem is that on top of just not being a very bright dude to begin with, he's also likely got severe brain trauma and is probably hampered mentally because of it. Which means that, in the long run, he's not linking "my friends need time away from me because they had lovely possessive habits over me" -> "this is healthy and good", and instead is linking "My friend need time away from me" -> "I am a useless obnoxious tool who can do no right". It might not be so much that he's just a mopey sadsack, but moreso that for whatever reason, he's not able to realize or comprehend that his friends aren't avoiding him, they're giving him space. And all he's known is absolute isolation surrounded by monsters (like right now), and a cloying, almost possessive sense of community that he is "Their" Jake.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:50
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Burkion posted:Okay so I don't know where it is but wait for it Mazerunner posted:Yeah I thought that could be kind of interesting. Like come through and woah what the gently caress happened to Prospit, what do you mean the Batterwitch is HIC is in charge of Derse, whose this hawty in jail, where are this dude's pants, Dave your bro did WHAT? LET'S RIDE MOTHERFUCKERS
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Aug 4, 2015 19:56
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Classtoise posted:I think Jakes biggest problem is that on top of just not being a very bright dude to begin with, he's also likely got severe brain trauma and is probably hampered mentally because of it. Which means that, in the long run, he's not linking "my friends need time away from me because they had lovely possessive habits over me" -> "this is healthy and good", and instead is linking "My friend need time away from me" -> "I am a useless obnoxious tool who can do no right". Jake's biggest problem: he's too hot for his own good.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:48
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I have two questions, one important and one very important. Important question: why is everyone so sure that Jake's problem is brain trauma and not standard issue stupidity? Very important question: has anyone here actually read a Pony Pals book in their tender years?
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Aug 4, 2015 20:59
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Blackheart posted:Jake's biggest problem: he's too hot for his own good. He was asking for it by stuffing those Grade A hams into those man-panties. paradoxGentleman posted:I have two questions, one important and one very important. It's been referenced quite often in the narrative and by other characters that Jake has suffered repeated blows to the head when otherwise it would seem superfluous to mention. Although it could very likely just be an "adventuring is dangerous and Lara Croft probably has brain damage after all of it" joke, some people think it's legitimate. You could call it a...Jake-Head Canon  Literally no part of me is sorry for that.
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Aug 4, 2015 21:34
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It's also part of the general thing where everyone discounts Jake's intelligence and ability because he is The Chick.
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Aug 4, 2015 21:57
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Rand Brittain posted:It's also part of the general thing where everyone discounts Jake's intelligence and ability because he is The Chick. People discount Jake's intelligence and ability because he is the Useless Time-Wasting Dipshit Who Never Does Anything Right, I Mean Anything At All, Holy poo poo, Kid, You've Fallen Far Since We First Saw You And We First Saw You Fondling Neytiri Posters. It's not completely his fault, but the fact that a lot of the meandering bullshit in early Act 6 was centered entirely around him means that a lot of that hate gets passed down to him as well. Dirk was also taking a lot of heat, but then he had actual character development and people backed off. Jake never moved anywhere but down. He's Tavros with half the self-awareness and ten times the focus.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:11
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Burkion posted:Some one perfectly recreated Pony Pals as Hussie as Dirk with all of the fuckery and amazing quality involved. For the ENTIRE BOOK. It is one of the best things crafted by this fandom. And I wouldn't doubt if Hussie himself was behind it A Correct Post.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:33
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paradoxGentleman posted:Important question: why is everyone so sure that Jake's problem is brain trauma and not standard issue stupidity? Well, Arania directly implied that there were physical problems with his brain that were impeding his development. I guess you could argue that stupidity could be a physical defect of the brain, but it seemed more likely that it was brain damage. I suppose the main difference between 'Jake is stupid because he has brain damage' and 'Jake is stupid because he doesn't try to improve' is that, well, one can be fixed by Jake himself.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:37
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Classtoise posted:It's been referenced quite often in the narrative and by other characters that Jake has suffered repeated blows to the head when otherwise it would seem superfluous to mention. Although it could very likely just be an "adventuring is dangerous and Lara Croft probably has brain damage after all of it" joke, some people think it's legitimate. Remember the long period when Bro beating up Dave was "just a joke"? IJS.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:14
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Remember the long period when Bro beating up Dave was "just a joke"? IJS. Yeah, this got me thinking of Jakes head trauma, too. "Hohoho, Bro is such an abusive older brother!" became "No, seriously, Bro was abusive as gently caress".
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Aug 5, 2015 00:03
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Jake also mentions taking too many hits in the head lately and that he's just not the same anymore as a result. At least I'm pretty sure he does bring this up in a conversation.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:11
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Blackheart posted:Jake also mentions taking too many hits in the head lately and that he's just not the same anymore as a result. As it happens, I just reread those bits seconds ago. http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006914 quote:Ow, your head. The old noggin has been getting a workout lately, and you don't mean the kind you get from puzzles. Good thing your trusty SKULLTOP took some of the brunt. Also, good thing your trusty SKULL took the rest of it. The sturdy bone really makes for a splendid backup helmet, you think. http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006918 quote:These aren't the kind of things that usually occur to you though, especially after several blows to the head. You continue staring vacantly at the dancing fruit, while that kind of thing keeps not occurring to you.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:25
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Jake being self centred sort of makes sense to me since literally everyone he's ever known is constantly talking about how much of a hot manstuf he is and how much ppeople want his dick and oh Jake Jake Jake Jake. I'm interested to hear Toxx's opinions on Act 6 because any time I've heard people talk about reading it a second time it's about how much better it is, whereas I actually enjoyed it less because the first time I read it I still had the hot glow of thinking Homestuck was amazing and perfect, whereas now I've been worn down by pauses and nearly everything pre-game over to having a more realistic appreciation for this good comic I still enjoy to realise that part 6 mostly kinda blows.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:35
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quote:This is seriously some Alice in Wonderland poo poo going on here.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:36
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Jake's entire life has been teaching him to think that he's the main character in his own movie. Even when he's being genuinely sympathetic toward others it's in such a way that it reflects back on him. He's a prop to others, and he treats others as props to him. Since his introduction, he has realized both of these facts, but has yet to grapple with them in a way that doesn't just make them more true. It's a tricky paradox to unpack in the short time that remains to him. Anyway. If you think about it, doesn't the very act of seeing make one a seer of light? What else is one going to see other than light? And why wouldn't anybody alive not be made of life? Also everybody breathes the air of breath.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:24
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There are wavelengths of light that we can't see. But not a Seer of Light. They see all of the light. All of it.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:22
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Bongo Bill posted:Anyway. If you think about it, doesn't the very act of seeing make one a seer of light? What else is one going to see other than light? And why wouldn't anybody alive not be made of life? Also everybody breathes the air of breath.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:40
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quote:Oxxidation: man you are diving back into the homestuck pool with both feet This is still fun.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:15
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Oxxidation posted:This is still fun. i hope you get sent to jail
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Aug 5, 2015 03:17
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Oxxidation posted:This is still fun. didn't one of you two do some content for homestuck in some way? i know I'm setting myself up to some big oh poo poo moment here.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:21
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pandaK posted:didn't one of you two do some content for homestuck in some way? i know I'm setting myself up to some big oh poo poo moment here. Not really. I wrote some of the lyrics for a song that later made it on one of the fan-albums but I don't lay any claim to it.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:22
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Aug 5, 2015 03:22
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Arsenic Lupin posted:We've established that "light" and "heart" and "blood" , for three, don't mean what you think they mean. Vriska is the Thief of Light, but what she steals is luck, not literal light. Dirk's "Prince of Heart" is actually "Destroyer of Souls". And whatever "blood" means, it's not literal blood; recent updates suggest that it has to do with relationships, bonds, that sort of thing. Or the game is dynamically generating extremely dramatic ways to call them all the Dave of Guy.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:31
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trudging through the slog of act 6 i realize that calliope is actually this super depressing character full of pathos and regret, really she nails the "Feel" that huss tried to go for with the alpha session of a bunch of doomed players trudging against the inevitable all Sisyphus style, but none of it works because calliope is just this boring exposition machine like 99% of the time she's onscreen i mean think about it, she shares a body with her pseudo-brother, who hates her and plots her death every moment he's alive so he can become lord english and destroy the universe, so she's literally chained to her bed for her entire waking life (literally speaking), she then spends every day of her miserable life pretending to be a troll, up to and including wearing fake troll horns so she can pretend for even one second that her situation isn't as self-evidently horrible as it is she then affects forced cheer whenever talking to anyone else and writes fanfiction about the fuckin' alpha kids because her day to day is so alternately boring and horrifying but you get NONE of that pathos and depression because calliope is, instead, the boring as gently caress grey text lady who overexplains everything to everyone she talks to
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Aug 5, 2015 03:47
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Yeah that's about the gist of her. We'll see if anything comes of it
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Aug 5, 2015 03:53
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Toxxupation posted:trudging through the slog of act 6 i realize that calliope is actually this super depressing character full of pathos and regret, really she nails the "Feel" that huss tried to go for with the alpha session of a bunch of doomed players trudging against the inevitable all Sisyphus style tbh i thought this was perfectly clear but i guess for some people it's subtext?
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Aug 5, 2015 04:00
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Tollymain posted:tbh i thought this was perfectly clear but i guess for some people it's subtext? Because 99% of the text text is boring exposition, like Toxx said.
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Aug 5, 2015 04:20
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Toxxupation posted:trudging through the slog of act 6 i realize that calliope is actually this super depressing character full of pathos and regret, really she nails the "Feel" that huss tried to go for with the alpha session of a bunch of doomed players trudging against the inevitable all Sisyphus style, but none of it works because calliope is just this boring exposition machine like 99% of the time she's onscreen But that's the thing: Caliborn is trapped in the exact same situation as Calliope. He's chained to a wall and stuck in the same body as someone who hates him and, if given enough time, will eat his soul. Calliope wants to kill Caliborn, she just has enough social graces to realize she shouldn't be talking to the humans about it.
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Aug 5, 2015 04:25
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It certainly feels like if Hussie had infinite time and maybe a few editor chums to redraft Homestuck, the value of things like the Alpha kids letting the Beta kids work out their issues with their guardians or the whole Calliope/Caliborn thing could be captured better and more succinctly. Fewer trolls might've also helped. The big picture ideas are usually pretty sound and update-to-update the comic's great, it's just the pacing and story structure that's all lopsided.
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Aug 5, 2015 04:28
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Dolash posted:It certainly feels like if Hussie had infinite time and maybe a few editor chums to redraft Homestuck, the value of things like the Alpha kids letting the Beta kids work out their issues with their guardians or the whole Calliope/Caliborn thing could be captured better and more succinctly. Fewer trolls might've also helped. The big picture ideas are usually pretty sound and update-to-update the comic's great, it's just the pacing and story structure that's all lopsided. Hussie once made a remark as to Homestuck being an experiment, his real Magnum Opus being still to come. I wonder if that'll be true though.
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Aug 5, 2015 09:52
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NewMars posted:Hussie once made a remark as to Homestuck being an experiment, his real Magnum Opus being still to come. He seems pretty committed to his game studio now, what with 8 announced releases already on the horizon, and having outsourced his presumably quite lucrative merchandising enterprise to focus attention on game development.
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Aug 5, 2015 10:47
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