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I guess this sort of leads in to probably one of my more unpopular opinions. Most games, especially RPGs, need like 99% less combat. Exploration and problem solving are much more interesting and killing endless waves of enemies just gets in the way of the good stuff. Sick of playing a loving murderous psychopath in every single game.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:21
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Give a man a great story and he'll play a game once for 10-30 hours and forget about it Give a man good combat and he'll actually still be playing the game next week Man League of Legends rules
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Dec 9, 2021 15:23
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Give a man a great story and he'll play a game once for 10-30 hours and forget about it Cool w that, cuz there's always another to play after. And after that. And after that
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Dec 9, 2021 15:31
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chglcu posted:I guess this sort of leads in to probably one of my more unpopular opinions. Most games, especially RPGs, need like 99% less combat. Exploration and problem solving are much more interesting and killing endless waves of enemies just gets in the way of the good stuff. Sick of playing a loving murderous psychopath in every single game. The older I get the more put off I am by playing "murder simulators". The game in my library with the most hours at this point is Flight Simulator 2020. Then again to be fair at least 100 of those hours were probably spent in their godawful updater. Maybe Death Stranding is worth a try.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:32
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Hey Noct, you know that generic old man without the slightest shred of a personality you met exactly once in the generic hotel about 12 realtime hours ago? Well he died in the most generic non-specific way possible by some bad people that may or may not have done something bad, or possibly good, to him at some point in the recent past, far offscreen where everything in this game happens. Noctis: mmm... tch! Gladio: I could taste test for you
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Dec 9, 2021 15:37
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chglcu posted:I guess this sort of leads in to probably one of my more unpopular opinions. Most games, especially RPGs, need like 99% less combat. Exploration and problem solving are much more interesting and killing endless waves of enemies just gets in the way of the good stuff. Sick of playing a loving murderous psychopath in every single game. RPGs (aside from Disco Elysium) basically revolve around going from strength to strength. They're not designed to let you fail forward because at almost every point in the game failure means death or something worse than death possibly for the entire world\universe.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:43
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Disco Elysium isnt an RPG its a Kings Quest
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Dec 9, 2021 15:47
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chglcu posted:I guess this sort of leads in to probably one of my more unpopular opinions. Most games, especially RPGs, need like 99% less combat. Exploration and problem solving are much more interesting and killing endless waves of enemies just gets in the way of the good stuff. Sick of playing a loving murderous psychopath in every single game. The problem is when the combat isn't fun. It not horrible game design to have combats intended to wear down player resources and bottle their progress, but a lot of RPGs don't even go that far and effortless, mindless combat is just there to fill space. The problem is that RPG combat, especially turn based but it applies everywhere, is basically a very simple strategy minigame and the player has effectively solved it by the time they're two or three encounters in. There have been games that improve on the model of RPG combat, giving players some real choices beyond attack, magic, or item. None of them have stuck, though.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:51
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Give a man a great story and he'll play a game once for 10-30 hours and forget about it Ahahaha, dude. Welcome to the fold. Who you playing / what role do you play? I disagree about the combat thing. I mean, sort of. Like some games, (like LoL, actually) the combat is the bit where you have to think about things, and where the innovation of the game comes from. The expression of skill. But I do think that for a lot of games, that's not the case. You can see if you play through the Uncharted series, they start off thinking they're a third person cover shooter, and as they go on, realise that these are actually the dull parts. The thing is, you can re-use assets for gunplay, and you can have a large part of the game where you don't really have to design anything new except for terrain. I get why there's so much shooting. It's sort of weird, in a way, that combat is still, in I guess a holdover from arcade machines, being presented as like a threat to your progress. Like, if you don't solve a puzzle, you don't move forward. But if you don't succeed at combat the game 'ends'. Only, it doesn't, because there's always saves or continues or respawns or something that mean that actually, failure is just a time delay. But that time delay is 'still' presented as like: "You failed entirely, would you like to try again?" Prey (the og one) had an interesting take, where if you died, you went to the spirit world and had to fight your way out. So, the penalty for failing combat was a minigame. Instead of breaking the flow of the game, it just gave you some more game. It's kinda strange that this hasn't been embraced more, no? Like, how is it the norm that in an RPG if you can't pass a 'puzzle', you just keep trying, but if you cant pass a 'combat' you have to press F6? I suppose load times play into it too, it's technically difficult to reset a scene with enemies in, so just abandoning it entirely is a kind of get out of jail free card from a programming perspective. !Klams fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 15:52
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chglcu posted:I guess this sort of leads in to probably one of my more unpopular opinions. Most games, especially RPGs, need like 99% less combat. Exploration and problem solving are much more interesting and killing endless waves of enemies just gets in the way of the good stuff. Sick of playing a loving murderous psychopath in every single game. I agree with this and I think it's a big reason why I'm into logistical problems in games. Ironically this causes me to like playing the Hitman games, where you are literally playing a murderous psychopath, but his kill count still pales in comparison to almost every other videogame protagonist. Videogames should be murder simulators, not killing spree stimulators.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:53
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Random Stranger posted:The problem is when the combat isn't fun. It not horrible game design to have combats intended to wear down player resources and bottle their progress, but a lot of RPGs don't even go that far and effortless, mindless combat is just there to fill space. The problem is that RPG combat, especially turn based but it applies everywhere, is basically a very simple strategy minigame and the player has effectively solved it by the time they're two or three encounters in. Unfun combat is part of the problem, but I would still prefer other types of obstacles, with combat being a rarity and usually as a last resort. I don’t think it should be used as casually as it is in most games.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:59
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X JAKK posted:Hey Noct, you know that generic old man without the slightest shred of a personality you met exactly once in the generic hotel about 12 realtime hours ago? Well he died in the most generic non-specific way possible by some bad people that may or may not have done something bad, or possibly good, to him at some point in the recent past, far offscreen where everything in this game happens. I have to imagine that FFXV was a lie the developers were telling the company so they could vacation at fancy hotels and restaurants for nine years, and then Square put their foot down and made them develop the game in about a year. Easily three quarters of the game feels like playing an unfinished outline of what the game was supposed to be.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:59
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i should be able to commit different crimes in my video games not just murder. there are not enough games about embezzlement or violating sumptuary laws. what about a game about trespassing or shoplifting? copyright infringement? many options
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Dec 9, 2021 16:03
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I love murdering in video games, especially with headshots and sword slashes
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Dec 9, 2021 16:06
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JollyBoyJohn posted:10-30 hours Yeah, a 10-year-old-man.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:06
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!Klams posted:I disagree about the combat thing. I mean, sort of. Like some games, (like LoL, actually) the combat is the bit where you have to think about things, and where the innovation of the game comes from. The expression of skill. But I do think that for a lot of games, that's not the case. You can see if you play through the Uncharted series, they start off thinking they're a third person cover shooter, and as they go on, realise that these are actually the dull parts. The thing is, you can re-use assets for gunplay, and you can have a large part of the game where you don't really have to design anything new except for terrain. I get why there's so much shooting. The problem with Uncharted games is that people think he's Indiana Jones and they play the game on Normal or Hard when really you are meant to play on Very Easy and play like he's Superman
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Dec 9, 2021 16:09
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Indiana Jones only needed to kill like 30 people over three adventures, and most of those were nazis. Not sure what point I’m making there, but new Tomb Raider and Uncharted both suck because of too much combat, like pretty much everything else that would otherwise be fun.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:18
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JollyBoyJohn posted:The problem with Uncharted games is that people think he's Indiana Jones and they play the game on Normal or Hard when really you are meant to play on Very Easy and play like he's Superman IM loving HURRICANE KICKING THESE SADBOYS DOWN 6 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS HAHAHA IM THE MONKEY KING gently caress YOU
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Dec 9, 2021 16:31
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No human in any video game should survive more than 3 gunshots. Energy shields and sci-fi poo poo notwithstanding, if you ever unload a full clip of a pistol into a human being that human being is dead or so incapacitated they’re basically in a coma. gently caress looter shooter games
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Dec 9, 2021 16:41
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If you think it's not acceptable to bail part way through an online match to deal with real life stuff because it will ruin your streak or match or whatever then you are the sort of person who needs to take breaks from games more.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:43
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Can you fight Rasputin in any game?
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Dec 9, 2021 16:46
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jokes posted:No human in any video game should survive more than 3 gunshots. Energy shields and sci-fi poo poo notwithstanding, if you ever unload a full clip of a pistol into a human being that human being is dead or so incapacitated they’re basically in a coma. and honestly it kind of kills the power fantasy. Are we shooting each other with airsoft guns here? I liked that the original Deus Ex had a difficulty setting of 'realistic' that wasn't necessarily hard, it just made everything die faster.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:46
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I think the computer video games that "got" guns right are Doom, F.E.A.R., and Metal Gear Solid V. Could be I'm misremembering though. And there are probably others, but I haven't played every computer video game out there (  )
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Dec 9, 2021 16:48
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syntaxfunction posted:If you think it's not acceptable to bail part way through an online match to deal with real life stuff because it will ruin your streak or match or whatever then you are the sort of person who needs to take breaks from games more. you are absolutely correct but also recognise that you probably won't keep doing that repeatedly without coming to the realisation that maybe that game and its dynamics arn't worth it for you and where you are in life and you'll move on to a videogame that better suits your lifestyle and personal dynamics or be like my mate who puts his 2 kids to bed and watches an hour of Gotham with his wife so he can finally get through to 1am and squeeze in a game of dota before he passes out lmao
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Dec 9, 2021 16:49
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Random Stranger posted:The problem is when the combat isn't fun. It not horrible game design to have combats intended to wear down player resources and bottle their progress, but a lot of RPGs don't even go that far and effortless, mindless combat is just there to fill space. Something that's bothered me about every remake of the original final fantasy is how it gets the entire appeal of the system completely wrong. In the original the gameplay system is entirely oriented around having very limited resources and needing to be as efficient as possible in order to stretch your party to the end of a dungeon. You need to pick your targets very deliberately to avoid wasted turns, your magic charges are limited and can't be restored inside of a dungeon, potions don't do much in combat, and resurrecting someone in the field isn't something you can just keep doing. If you blow through all your resources too quickly you'll probably not be able to finish a dungeon. Every fight requires you to stay engaged and play to your party's strengths if you want to win without resorting to overleveling your characters. In every remake/port, the gameplay systems do away with most of that. Melee fighters hit way harder and automatically retarget enemies, enemies are generally less dangerous, resurrecting party members is easier, and more powerful potions are available. End result, the entire game is a pointless slog where you hold down the attack button and the game practically plays itself unless you're running some weird gimmick party like all white and black mages. I'm not saying FF1 NES has mindblowingly indepth combat: it's slow, buggy, overly punishing, and the forced level grinding is abysmal, but it does show that even a really simple system can have actual gameplay to engage with
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Dec 9, 2021 16:52
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JollyBoyJohn posted:The problem with Uncharted games is that people think he's Indiana Jones and they play the game on Normal or Hard when really you are meant to play on Very Easy and play like he's Superman Uncharted 4 was actually a really good game because they finally turned it into a Metal Gear Solid knockoff with stealth opportunities to get through most of the action sections (still some forced action sequences, but there are a few of those in MGS too), rather than a Gears of War knockoff. Also the jumping in these just basically holding down forward, when it would be so much more fun and engaging to just take the grabbing mechanics from classic Tomb Raider. the whole series was one big missed opportunity
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Dec 9, 2021 16:53
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pretty soft girl posted:Something that's bothered me about every remake of the original final fantasy is how it gets the entire appeal of the system completely wrong. In the original the gameplay system is entirely oriented around having very limited resources and needing to be as efficient as possible in order to stretch your party to the end of a dungeon. You need to pick your targets very deliberately to avoid wasted turns, your magic charges are limited and can't be restored inside of a dungeon, potions don't do much in combat, and resurrecting someone in the field isn't something you can just keep doing. If you blow through all your resources too quickly you'll probably not be able to finish a dungeon. Every fight requires you to stay engaged and play to your party's strengths if you want to win without resorting to overleveling your characters. this is all true but lmao who cares, no one is playing the NES Final Fantasy in 2021
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Dec 9, 2021 16:55
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The fact that the shitshow Final Fantasy II did not cause the (commercial) death of the series just proves that JRPG players are loving weirdos.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:57
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Icochet posted:Can you fight Rasputin in any game? Shadow Hearts: Covenant
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Dec 9, 2021 17:01
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theres nothing weird about someone enjoying a final fantasy but when you hear people posting about some obscure jrpg thats coming out in 5 months that they are looking forward too its really difficult to think "this person really enjoys jrgps" and increasingly easier to think "wow, this person really must have a shite life if they are that obsessed with foreign media"
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Dec 9, 2021 17:01
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JollyBoyJohn posted:theres nothing weird about someone enjoying a final fantasy but when you hear people posting about some obscure jrpg thats coming out in 5 months that they are looking forward too its really difficult to think "this person really enjoys jrgps" and increasingly easier to think "wow, this person really must have a shite life if they are that obsessed with foreign media" Literally all computer video games except Liero, Slicks'n'Slide, and Max Payne are foreign media. e: Forgot about Stardust.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:02
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jokes posted:No human in any video game should survive more than 3 gunshots. Energy shields and sci-fi poo poo notwithstanding, if you ever unload a full clip of a pistol into a human being that human being is dead or so incapacitated they’re basically in a coma. I really dislike how many fpses in the last 20 years have enemies just straight up no-selling getting shot until they finally fall over dead when goldeneye and perfect dark of all games acknowledged that getting shot hurts a lot One of the leaks for COD 2022 said that enemies will react realistically to being shot and some content creators were losing their mind like this thing that a game from 1997 accomplished on its first try was some revolutionary tech
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Dec 9, 2021 17:03
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Metal Gear Solid V. *starts mission* *immediately loads round into chamber* *ejects 29/30 magazine, inserts full magazine* *repeats for every gun*
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Dec 9, 2021 17:05
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Harrow posted:Shadow Hearts: Covenant What damage resistances does he have?
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Dec 9, 2021 17:07
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Icochet posted:What damage resistances does he have? He has a magic shield that prevents almost all damage and also has to be killed multiple times before it actually sticks, appropriately
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Dec 9, 2021 17:10
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Icochet posted:Can you fight Rasputin in any game? Fight and fight as in World Heroes.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:12
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Icochet posted:What damage resistances does he have? I don't remember exactly but I think he raises a magical fortress from the river that cuts St Petersburg and turns into a demon when you kill him for the first time then when you kill him for the second time the fortress disintegrates over the city
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Dec 9, 2021 17:14
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Icochet posted:Can you fight Rasputin in any game? ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0xkbb0b7Zw
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Dec 9, 2021 17:18
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pretty soft girl posted:Something that's bothered me about every remake of the original final fantasy is how it gets the entire appeal of the system completely wrong. In the original the gameplay system is entirely oriented around having very limited resources and needing to be as efficient as possible in order to stretch your party to the end of a dungeon. You need to pick your targets very deliberately to avoid wasted turns, your magic charges are limited and can't be restored inside of a dungeon, potions don't do much in combat, and resurrecting someone in the field isn't something you can just keep doing. If you blow through all your resources too quickly you'll probably not be able to finish a dungeon. Every fight requires you to stay engaged and play to your party's strengths if you want to win without resorting to overleveling your characters. Edit: oh I read that wrong. yeah the remakes of FF1 are trash
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Dec 9, 2021 17:20
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Rutibex posted:every Final Fantasy is structured like this until FF8. you are playing them wrong, stop grinding ?? I don't think you read my post duder, I'm specifically pointing out that the ff1 remakes are stupidly and mind numbingly easy even if you don't grind Edit response: all good high five ff1 remakes are trash buddy
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Dec 9, 2021 17:21
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