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remember lord of verminion and how we're all still playing it today? I mean I'd give them an A for effort but
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Mar 1, 2017 21:22
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i still play it sometimes!
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Mar 1, 2017 21:29
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Which loot system are you even talking about? Also, unfairness is what the group decides what to do with the loot, not what the game gives you. There are still serious mechanical issues with it (namely that I still have to roll against everyone else) but getting tokens I can use to buy the gear I want instead of hoping the right item for the right job drops is better in just about every way. Uncapping the tokens drops was a mixed bag because while it means I could hypothetically gear up in 250 gear in a single day it also means that everyone is going to be need rolling on everything because they're in the same boat I am, so it's better but still bad. But a better specific example was the one I talked about already with Proto Ultima. You get the weekly quest, you go to raid and beat the boss, and you get your reward: a 270 accessory for any slot and any job. This is good. Even loving WoW moved to all loot being personal like 2 expansions ago. Velthice posted:like what though? patch cycles are already among the fastest for an mmo, expecting more content in a shorter time isn't realistic. the content they make now has to do it's best to last at least a patch cycle, more realistically two because of the way they currently divide the focus even and odd patches (though that's set to change possibly) I actually am pleased with the amount of content there is and I don't really feel like I need to ask for me, that wasn't my point. I didn't make it too clearly because I was making fun of a stupid post and not really elaborating. People do Dun Scaith weekly to get their 260 loot drop and now also their 270. Doing it more than once to get the one thing I'm going there for because I didn't get it the first time is an annoyance that quickly saps the fun out of what was actually a really fun 24 man with some cool fights. So the people who are suggesting that "actually, it's really good that this dungeon pisses in our mouths and we have to drink it" aren't willing to consider that there is more than one way to keep me going back to a dungeon besides holding my loot hostage. Anima weapons are silly nonsense that are completely unnecessary but people still like them because they're cool (or because equivalent item level weapons don't have the stats they want but that is a separate and unrelated problem). They're willing to do insane grinding and doing poo poo over and over because they want a cool looking weapon. They choose to do this. gently caress, I chose to do this. It is totally possible that people can do their weekly 24 man raid to get their loot pieces AND there be another long term reason to keep running a dungeon multiple times a week. You can add longevity to a game without sucking all the fun out of it first. THAT was my point.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:34
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Augus posted:Awesome. Can't wait to see what else they can do. For their next trick, they redesign the four existing cities as seamless single zones. 
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Mar 1, 2017 21:39
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I like the idea of token drops that you exchange for gear, but they should have a role requirement. Like, you clear a fight, and maybe you get a melee hand token and a tank head token. That way there's some randomness involved, but you won't get screwed by getting two ninja pieces when you don't have a ninja. Or they could just make melee use the same gear. That's really the source of the issue here.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:39
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check out my Youtube posted:Imagine if... stay with me here... imagine if they could put in interesting things to keep me playing *instead of* a horribly stupid and unfair loot system that they already have replaced in some parts of the game! Maybe.. now stay with me here.. you should kill the boss more then once and then you'll get your loot. With savage books there is no rng just time.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:40
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I have no problem with 24 mans implementing a token system, weekly quest, etc... I think that should have happened at the start of heavensward when they added tokens to everything else like extremes, and normal and savage alex. could have been sooner but so could everything else
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Mar 1, 2017 21:40
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I usually default to targeting the main tank on the theory that they're most likely to actually move out of an aoe... and half the time that fucker hasn't moved either. Who do you pick, if you don't have brainpower to look before mashing an f-key? Tanks can easily eat some AoEs so that's probably not a good idea even if the tank is good.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:42
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hobbesmaster posted:Tanks can easily eat some AoEs so that's probably not a good idea even if the tank is good. Plus you'll have to move so you don't get cleaved.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:43
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Fister Roboto posted:I like the idea of token drops that you exchange for gear, but they should have a role requirement. Like, you clear a fight, and maybe you get a melee hand token and a tank head token. That way there's some randomness involved, but you won't get screwed by getting two ninja pieces when you don't have a ninja. somewhere a xiv dev looks up and screams "BUT MY CLASS IDENTITY!!!" here's a thought to cool all you peeps off of the stormblood hype train: the new artifact gear is almost certainly going to be from tomestones and boy howdy is that going to suck some poo poo just like it always does
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Mar 1, 2017 21:45
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Holyshoot posted:Maybe.. now stay with me here.. you should kill the boss more then once and then you'll get your loot. With savage books there is no rng just time. I am fine with drops being time gated as long as gear acquisition is not random. My issue was never with guaranteed token drops it is with me having to do the same thing over and over within the same weekly drop period to get the piece of gear I could've and should've gotten the first time. Making luck a factor in getting gear never makes the process better. Orcs and Ostriches posted:The randomness has a plus side that it keeps people coming back throughout the lock out period, which helps people running it later. If everyone got their DS token in the first couple of days, those weekend players could have a rougher time just getting those queues filled. There's probably a balancing act in there somewhere. This is already the case though. Queues are much faster on Tuesday because many people will run it right away and get their drop their first run. As I said in my last post it is totally possible to add a grindy long term but cool goal that involves running the same content multiple times without depriving people of their basic loot if you really feel like you have to shuffle people back into the queue. check out my Youtube fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 21:45
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The randomness has a plus side that it keeps people coming back throughout the lock out period, which helps people running it later. If everyone got their DS token in the first couple of days, those weekend players could have a rougher time just getting those queues filled. There's probably a balancing act in there somewhere. The randomness can still suck; like I still haven't seen the bloody Void Ark tank chest that I want for a glamour. I'd probably be more annoyed if it was good gear and not a glamour piece for a secondary job.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:45
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The randomness has a plus side that it keeps people coming back throughout the lock out period, which helps people running it later. If everyone got their DS token in the first couple of days, those weekend players could have a rougher time just getting those queues filled. There's probably a balancing act in there somewhere. ...but it is kind of dumb when almost everything else has a guaranteed way of getting it. extreme totems, alex bolts, illuminati manifestos, etc...
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Mar 1, 2017 21:48
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vOv posted:Plus you'll have to move so you don't get cleaved. Healer is your best bet because if I'm healing and a BLM eats poo poo because they teleported to me I would only blame myself. (Also comm the BLM)
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Mar 1, 2017 21:51
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check out my Youtube posted:I am fine with drops being time gated as long as gear acquisition is not random. My issue was never with guaranteed token drops it is with me having to do the same thing over and over within the same weekly drop period to get the piece of gear I could've and should've gotten the first time. Making luck a factor in getting gear never makes the process better. My bad then. I guess we were talking past each other. I think a savage type loot system for the 24 mans would be good as well. As it stands now I agree the way loot is done in dun scaithe is dumb. Having to run the place 3-4 times in a week to get a piece of tank loot is awful.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:53
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I remember how WoW used to handle tokens (back like 8 years ago, no clue how they handle it now) - Every tier, the classes would be grouped off and tokens were assigned different class group. This tier, the tokens may break out where Paladin, Warlock, and Rogue are paired together. Next tier, they might pair Paladin, Shaman, and Mage. It changed thing up if nothing else. One difference was that you only get one chance on loot per boss a week instead of only being able to roll once a week. But I think the group tokens would be better. You could pair like this if you want it SUPER reductionist: DRK, WAR, PLD, AST, WHM, SCH (tank/healer token group) NIN, SAM, DRG, MNK (melee DPS group) SMN, RDM, BLM, BRD, MCH (range DPS group) Though I think it would be more fun to pair it off in a more random way. Maybe DRK, SAM, BLM, WHM, MNK WAR, AST, SMN, BRD, DRG PLD, SCH, RDM, NIN, MCH Or even break it down to 5 groups of 3. Then make it so that if no class on the token is in the group, the token isn't on the loot table. It still keeps things interesting and competitive and a little bit random.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:54
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Finally got up to ten each of the unidentified gubbins this morning for my relic. Now I just have to decide between Ninja and Monk to proceed with, since I'm not doing that part of the grind again. It's rather like choosing a favorite child though, I love playing both classes. 
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Mar 1, 2017 21:55
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Velthice posted:somewhere a xiv dev looks up and screams "BUT MY CLASS IDENTITY!!!" here's a thought to cool all you peeps off of the stormblood hype train: the new artifact gear is almost certainly going to be from tomestones and boy howdy is that going to suck some poo poo just like it always does The smart thing to do there would be to make the AF gear purchaseable with the tomestones that aren't weekly capped, so that people don't get screwed too badly if they need to switch classes within a role. Or make them rewards from class quests, like they used to be.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:56
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Velthice posted:no you don't, not if you're transposing the normal mode tokens over to savage like you suggest. take a9s for example, bolts and chains, I'll help your case and take pedals out of the equation for now. after 8 weeks everyone has one accessory and a belt. now you have a whole lotta chains that no one wants and everyone stuck waiting another 8 weeks for next full round of bolt drops as opposed to the current system where they just have to wait 4 to get whatever they want. Change the item drops to tokens that can be traded in for any item that could normally drop from that instance. Keep the pages.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:57
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Holyshoot posted:My bad then. I guess we were talking past each other. I think a savage type loot system for the 24 mans would be good as well. As it stands now I agree the way loot is done in dun scaithe is dumb. Having to run the place 3-4 times in a week to get a piece of tank loot is awful. Word. Beef: squashed.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:58
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How were the 2.0 AF (level 90) items done originally? When I started at least, tokens dropped from a few of the higher level dungeons that you just exchanged for them.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:59
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The new AF gear being weekly tomestone bound was the most bummer loving thing and I'm going to be disappointed again when it happens in 4.0.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:59
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hobbesmaster posted:Healer is your best bet because if I'm healing and a BLM eats poo poo because they teleported to me I would only blame myself. (Also comm the BLM)
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Mar 1, 2017 22:05
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:How were the 2.0 AF (level 90) items done originally? When I started at least, tokens dropped from a few of the higher level dungeons that you just exchanged for them. You got the i50 pieces from the level 45 class quests and the i55 chestpiece from the capstone quest, just like you do now. The i90 pieces were purchaseable with tomestones of mythology, which were the weekly capped stones at the time.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:13
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If tome gear is class specific I pretty much skip that cycle since it kills easily switching between sch and whm.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:18
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AF armour should just be a cosmetic award for your level 50/60/70 job quests.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:25
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Mymla posted:Change the item drops to tokens that can be traded in for any item that could normally drop from that instance. Keep the pages. that still seems way too fast to be healthy to me. i think the hinted change that all the drops will at least be "usable" by someone is easily sufficient along with pages. the only thing I'd be willing to concede is now with proto ultima there's no real reason that getting an accessory out of alex still takes 4 weeks, but only that. getting everything else for one token just seems dumb when even normal mode makes you wait a couple weeks for a left side piece not counting belts (and so does tomestone gear for that matter). all I see is "well I want it now" and sure okay, I get that, but it's not really a great reason. I did like the part where you threatened to unsub/quit though, if sa had a yellow background I'd have been proper fooled Fister Roboto posted:You got the i50 pieces from the level 45 class quests and the i55 chestpiece from the capstone quest, just like you do now. The i90 pieces were purchaseable with tomestones of mythology, which were the weekly capped stones at the time. don't forget that mythology was capped at 300
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Mar 1, 2017 22:26
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Fister Roboto posted:You got the i50 pieces from the level 45 class quests and the i55 chestpiece from the capstone quest, just like you do now. The i90 pieces were purchaseable with tomestones of mythology, which were the weekly capped stones at the time. So basically the good AF gear has always been tomestones? At some point for the 2.0 90AF, they added dungeon tokens, and for 3.0 AF, moved them to hunt seals. They'll probably do the same sort of thing for 4.0.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:35
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I suspect they intentionally made the initial tomestone gear class-restricted so gearing up alts would take a bit longer during the period with the longest patch lull. I wouldn't be surprised to see a return to the ARR system though where they just hand you the AF, but the tomestone gear is still class-locked.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:39
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cheetah7071 posted:I suspect they intentionally made the initial tomestone gear class-restricted so gearing up alts would take a bit longer during the period with the longest patch lull. I wouldn't be surprised to see a return to the ARR system though where they just hand you the AF, but the tomestone gear is still class-locked. if they do it'd be like bare minimum entry level 70 gear, which I guess would be neat. I remember people having problems meeting the gear req for ARF and having job gear being good for that would go a long way in getting rid of potentially dumb gear walls and also ensures that everyone is playing a fully unlocked class by the end of the story. I only ask that the first dungeons have really dumb looking gear for upgrades like in the old days when tanks went from their cool AF chest pieces to running around in hoplite t-shirts and monks had dumb mittens from amdapor keep
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Mar 1, 2017 22:47
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Velthice posted:I only ask that the first dungeons have really dumb looking gear for upgrades like in the old days when tanks went from their cool AF chest pieces to running around in hoplite t-shirts and monks had dumb mittens from amdapor keep I bought some returning friends 110 gear from Ishguard, while they were levelling through their post 2.0 quests. They especially loved the bard gear I gave them, with the big robe and floppy jester's cap. Every few tiers people need to be stuck with stuff like that.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:54
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 New coat is beautiful and works great for my burly battle scholar
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Mar 1, 2017 23:09
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check out my Youtube posted:I am fine with drops being time gated as long as gear acquisition is not random. My issue was never with guaranteed token drops it is with me having to do the same thing over and over within the same weekly drop period to get the piece of gear I could've and should've gotten the first time. Making luck a factor in getting gear never makes the process better. As an omniclasser I've never had problems getting a piece of loot from Dun Scaith my first run through because I do the weird thing and just greed on everything since the vast majority of gear is an upgrade to me. I tried holding out for specific pieces but the fact of the matter is that EVERYONE does that and it makes the whole experience a lot more frustrating. So I said 'sod it I'll just take the first piece I can get' and haven't looked back since. This has done me well ever since World of Darkness. Even then I curse when lots of tank stuff drops because that's both the only stuff I can need and don't need.  Velthice posted:if they do it'd be like bare minimum entry level 70 gear, which I guess would be neat. I remember people having problems meeting the gear req for ARF and having job gear being good for that would go a long way in getting rid of potentially dumb gear walls and also ensures that everyone is playing a fully unlocked class by the end of the story. And tanks went from sweet neato gear to all looking like Gothic Templars thank you  (Darklight set.)
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Mar 1, 2017 23:20
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I definitely recall having to do ARF a second time to have enough Law tomes to enter neverreap and fractal continuum, as well.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:29
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I think they did something weird in heavensward, like the MSQ gave you a full new set of leftside every 2 levels, but you never got a single accessory or something? I think I was stuck with an ilvl 90 bracelet holding me back at 60.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:39
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Mymla posted:I think they did something weird in heavensward, like the MSQ gave you a full new set of leftside every 2 levels, but you never got a single accessory or something? I think I was stuck with an ilvl 90 bracelet holding me back at 60. I think the accessories must have been in sidequests then because when I hit 60 my only out of date gearslot was one of the rings, iirc.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:40
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I did every single sidequest. I dunno, maybe it was a ring I was missing, it's been 1.5 years.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:42
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So, doesn't anyone have any suggestions on glove/pants/feet slots that go well with the ultima mesh? Obviously the horns cover the head slot, but I'm having trouble thinking of good matches for the other ones.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:03
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You remember correctly, in Heavensward we got level 50, 54 and 58 accessories if we did every quest, but for some reason we never got any bracelets (except for vilekin from leves of course).Obligatum VII posted:So, doesn't anyone have any suggestions on glove/pants/feet slots that go well with the ultima mesh? Obviously the horns cover the head slot, but I'm having trouble thinking of good matches for the other ones. Can't offer help for hands or legs but the Expeditioner's Thighboots dyed pure black seem to work. Except for some annoying brown stitches near the top, if anyone knows any better thighboots to use I would also be interested to know. ActionZero fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 00:04
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Accessories were on the vilekin trader for each level range, including bracers. I don't think a single person bothered with them.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:06
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