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HonorableTB posted:You can tell it's an electronicmaji alt if they devolve into posting increasingly violent screeds towards white people within five or six posts My only regret today is that there isn't a place on this forum where we can talk about why their accusations--not the calls to violence--are right. Fake edit: "How white capital destroyed the Earth" is a.... climate topic? USPOL? Military history?
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Sep 8, 2021 22:44
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I guess that was kind of the subject of every Trump thread; the horse has been beaten thoroughly.
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Sep 8, 2021 22:46
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Professor Beetus posted:For the folks suggesting the CSPAM covid thread, is the OP up to date for anyone who wants to check it out, or are people more expected to drop by and ask for advice? It's updated constantly, none of the links I tried are out of date or dead and the links to order are kept up to date from whoever is best/fastest at the time. The 2nd post has lots of respirator crew tips and tricks that some may find helpful. People are encouraged to drop in and say "I don't know where to start, help" like I did but the OP and 2nd post should be plenty
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Sep 8, 2021 22:47
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Epic High Five posted:It's updated constantly, none of the links I tried are out of date or dead and the links to order are kept up to date from whoever is best/fastest at the time. The 2nd post has lots of respirator crew tips and tricks that some may find helpful. People are encouraged to drop in and say "I don't know where to start, help" like I did but the OP and 2nd post should be plenty And again, I'm pointing this out not because I'm trying to talk people out of wearing EHMRs or anything like that, I'm just pointing it out because I think it's important to have accurate information and it sure looks like people aren't clear on the distinction.
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Sep 8, 2021 23:11
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Is there wisdom in waiting for an optimum time to get a boost for a third shot, or is that irrelevant?
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Sep 8, 2021 23:13
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Is there wisdom in waiting for an optimum time to get a boost for a third shot, or is that irrelevant? the science isn’t really in yet for all the vaccines though i’ve been seeing eight months get tossed about
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Sep 8, 2021 23:17
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SubG posted:We've been over this in this thread, but that second post does the thing where it presents the NIOSH study on exhaust valves on FFRs as if it applies to EHMRs, which is explicitly does not. Like there's a huge block of text containing multiple block quotes about EHMRs and EHMR filters and people talking about which EHMR to buy and so on, and then it's got The exhaust valve of your respirator is going to provide filtration similar to or better than a surgical mask in bold and a link to the study. But if you actually read the study they're careful to make the distinction: "This study, using the most penetrable particle size, indicates that even unmitigated FFRs with an exhalation valve can help to provide some degree of source control. A similar evaluation of PAPR and elastomeric respirator mitigation strategies would be an important continuation of this research, since a surgical mask over the exhalation valve of an elastomeric respirator is amitigation currently being used by some healthcare institutions to help provide source control" (page 15). I've not dug into the nitty gritty on that, I was assuming that the OP style differences between the two would mean it's mostly just links being brought over with maybe something for people who want to know more but don't want to post in that thread. Last time I recall it coming up, the exhaust valve agreement was to mask up over them if they have a valve, with some discussion on how frustratingly futile such an act is when you're around a bunch of people who just straight up aren't doing anything at all. Well that or block up the valve and be done with it, and TSA is inconsistent about what they'll allow. My unscientific opinion is that any valve that is easier to breathe through than the filters or a mask probably isn't filtering as good as those, and the role of the valve is to make exhaling easier. Antifa Turkeesian posted:Is there wisdom in waiting for an optimum time to get a boost for a third shot, or is that irrelevant? I can't find the study I remember the neat graph from, but Israel's done a lot of research on it and they're setting it at 5 months after the 2nd dose for the booster so if there's a big dropoff that's probably when it happens. The CDC says 8 months but I'm not aware of any research that it's based on
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Sep 8, 2021 23:22
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Potato Salad posted:My only regret today is that there isn't a place on this forum where we can talk about why their accusations--not the calls to violence--are right. Didn't we have a forum for this? The great race space or something?
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Sep 8, 2021 23:24
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Epic High Five posted:It's updated constantly, none of the links I tried are out of date or dead and the links to order are kept up to date from whoever is best/fastest at the time. The 2nd post has lots of respirator crew tips and tricks that some may find helpful. People are encouraged to drop in and say "I don't know where to start, help" like I did but the OP and 2nd post should be plenty Fantastic, thanks again, you've been very helpful. RE: White guilt/white responsibility, I'm fine with discussion about it relative to covid and broader as long as none of you start pulling an electronicmaji or oocc on us, but here's my personal perspective; feel free to ask me follow up questions if anyone cares: I did not consent to be born, and I feel like however else the rest of the world might judge me, I can only judge me relative to my own experiences, and I'm thankful to a lot of diverse friends who have opened my eyes to their perspectives and allowed me to develop empathy over the years, as well as my own diagnosis of type 1 diabetes and recently bipolar disorder which I am currently medicated for, and the associated hurdles of dealing with healthcare for it over the last 18 years (diabetes; bipolar disorder was very recent). Pre ACA was particularly nightmarish, but due to being in a solid blue state that does good work with the expanded federal subsidies, particularly post cares act, I am in the best shape I can possibly be in the pandemic. But I've been drat sure trying to signal boost minority voices with my privilege and donating when I am financially able. My meandering point is that trying yourself for the sins of your society does nothing good for yourself if you continually find yourself guilty. Rather than do that to yourself, instead use whatever privilege you have to do what you can. It's thinking globally and acting locally which is corny as gently caress but somehow still true, just look at Virginia. So be good to yourselves and respect one another as we debate because we're all doing our best no matter where we're all at right now wrt our comfort levels. I'll be honest and upfront about it in the interests of full disclosure, due to those mentioned conditions there may be times when I'm overly snippy or overly depressive as my bipolar is predominately depressive rather than manic, and just know that I am doing my best and I am going to try to just remember not to post if it's not bringing any value to the thread. If I'm not doing well at that, again open to critique, but also just try to keep in mind that I am an most definitely an Idiot King and I have to be fair with myself that I can't be 100% all the time as well. Thanks again for tolerating me. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 8, 2021 |
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Sep 8, 2021 23:32
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HonorableTB posted:Didn't we have a forum for this? The great race space or something? Start a thread here. The specific minority sub forum shouldn't be the only place you can talk about racial issues.
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Sep 8, 2021 23:38
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Epic High Five posted:I've not dug into the nitty gritty on that, I was assuming that the OP style differences between the two would mean it's mostly just links being brought over with maybe something for people who want to know more but don't want to post in that thread. Last time I recall it coming up, the exhaust valve agreement was to mask up over them if they have a valve, with some discussion on how frustratingly futile such an act is when you're around a bunch of people who just straight up aren't doing anything at all. Well that or block up the valve and be done with it, and TSA is inconsistent about what they'll allow. What EHMRs can you just block the exhalation valve on? That generally works on FFRs because you can just breathe through the mask material, but on every EHMR I own (e.g. 3M 620x and 650x series) blocking the exhalation valve would make it impossible to use (because both the inhalation and exhalation valves are one-way).
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Sep 8, 2021 23:38
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SubG posted:I'm just pointing it out because it's come up multiple times in this thread in ways that indicate that people were assuming the NIOSH paper/result applied to EHMRs. Not sure specifically since I'm not actually part of the crew yet and my eyes sort of glaze over when they get in depth lol, I believe some models will sell an exhalation valve filter (I think the secure clicks?) and there's parts you can either buy or 3D print (homebrew tho...ehhh) to block others. I think the general advice is to just rubber band part of a mask over it and forget about it. A lot of models I've seen it looks like the only real option would be wearing a full surgical mask over it. I remember Naomi Wu had a big twitter thread on it where she described making one cart inhale and one exhale but with the obvious caveats, it sounds like it depends entirely on the model and how the carts work if there's an easier option than the surgical mask
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Sep 8, 2021 23:42
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I took the clippers to my beard today and will be shaving tomorrow both due to anticipating wearing more N95s/KN95s in the near future and also because I was looking like Crazy Riker. Those mask recommendations in the CSPAM thread will definitely be handy, thanks again. e: I'm going to get back to final fantasy and let the thread have some room to breath
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Sep 8, 2021 23:46
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Happy to help! I'm just passing on secondhand knowledge so I'm sure there's a veteran elastomeric crew poster here like SubG who could provide a lot more for the OP than just the links I've been using. My personal quest has been to find a wrap to use for the Singh Thatta method as I hope to keep my beard now that I've accepted that I'm never going back to WFH 
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Sep 8, 2021 23:49
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Epic High Five posted:Not sure specifically since I'm not actually part of the crew yet and my eyes sort of glaze over when they get in depth lol, I believe some models will sell an exhalation valve filter (I think the secure clicks?) and there's parts you can either buy or 3D print (homebrew tho...ehhh) to block others. I think the general advice is to just rubber band part of a mask over it and forget about it. A lot of models I've seen it looks like the only real option would be wearing a full surgical mask over it. In terms of blocking the exhalation valve and inverting one of the inhalation valves so you're breathing in one filter and out the other...that seems like it would probably work fine with plain ol' P100 or whatever filters but who knows with any of the more elaborate filters. Although I doubt many people are using e.g. organic gas filters for covid source control. I think the wildcard in all of those setups (including just putting a mask over an exhalation valve) is that I don't know how good the assumption is that filtering material designed to work with free-flowing air would work on the end of an venturi (where the air pressure will be lower and the velocity of any particulate stuff in the air will be higher). Having used a lot of EMHRs for non-covid purposes and always having a couple on hand because they all behave slightly differently, my guess would be that you can't really generalise and different EMHRs not designed for source control are going to have wildly different efficacy for souce control. I'd love for a study to come along and prove that assumption wrong, though.
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Sep 9, 2021 00:01
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SubG posted:Yeah, the 3M 620x masks are designed to accept an optional exhalation filter (3M 604), and while I don't know about its performance with covid, it's marketed for source control in general. No idea about the efficacy of various homebrew equivalents. The only in-depth look into the various options around this was done by Naomi Wu, you may get more out of it than I did, she's as thorough as ever. Seems to mostly corroborate what you said and go over other options https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1421367605676314624 Mostly though it seems there isn't really any universal advice, just whatever the best practice is with your mask specifically and making sure you get the one that can do what you want in the first place
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Sep 9, 2021 00:07
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Regarding systematic racism, I guess we could talk about whether the west is sabotaging a swift vaccine rollout in the developing world, fir instance by hoarding vaccines or preventing vaccines from bexoming open source. There will at least be some COVID variants that only exist because COVID spread like wildfire in South America and elsewhere.
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Sep 9, 2021 00:54
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Pragmatica posted:
Mods... Good!?!?
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Sep 9, 2021 01:09
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Lord Stimperor posted:Regarding systematic racism, I guess we could talk about whether the west is sabotaging a swift vaccine rollout in the developing world, fir instance by hoarding vaccines or preventing vaccines from bexoming open source. There will at least be some COVID variants that only exist because COVID spread like wildfire in South America and elsewhere.
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Sep 9, 2021 01:19
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Do full face piece elastromeric masks that work with shorter beards? I wish I could grow a dwarf beard but also wish I could wear something that protects me.
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Sep 9, 2021 01:43
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droll posted:Do full face piece elastromeric masks that work with shorter beards? I wish I could grow a dwarf beard but also wish I could wear something that protects me. Per OSHA, there is no elastomeric that works with any kind of facial hair that is present at sealing sites. In some cases people have it tight enough or little enough hair there to still pass a seal test, but it's nothing to count on. Only choice is to shave, do a beard wrap and stand out even more, or get one of those PAPR hoods and become a Contagion extra
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Sep 9, 2021 01:46
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From what I've read, and I'm the furthest thing from seriously educated here, definitely no.You want the mask to be entirely flush with your skin. I'm sure there's some incredibly unscientific argument to made made about thick beards absorbing water droplets and offering some sort of protection in that sense, but as a dude with a beard myself I highly doubt it. What I've been doing is using packs of n95 or kn95 (they're super cheap right now) masks until the moderately flimsy elastic attachment breaks, and always wearing an elastic neck gaiter over the mask. The masks do a fine job of being tight but not suffocating around the face and the neck gaiters allow me to cover the entirety of my face, are tight enough to keep the mask mostly flush without being so tight as to deform it or push it around and I tuck the gaiter in to my shirt. Still this is not ideal, I imagine, and what we should do is just shave so the entire edge of the mask can press up against skin uninterrupted. Either way this is definitly more protection and layers than, uh, everyone at every grocery store I visit every week or three. If I were a nurse or doctor or had to work with the public, or a bunch of anti vaccine coworkers, regularly I would just shave. E: dang papr hoods go for like 85, 200,or 1500 dollars. I didn't even know those were available to the public.
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Sep 9, 2021 01:56
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Air's gonna take the path of least resistance. Given the choice between a filter and your beard gaps, it's gonna go for the gaps. Put a disposable respirator on over your beard to test this. You'll feel the air rushing through your beard.
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Sep 9, 2021 01:57
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yeah I should add that the cases where you'll pass a seal test with one are rare, and you cannot count on that seal remaining consistent throughout the time you're wearing it, even if you tighten it to the max I say this with much sadness as a beard haver
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Sep 9, 2021 01:59
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I must say I'm a bit confused...breakthrough cases are super rare. If you're vaccinated, why use a respirator?
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Sep 9, 2021 02:00
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StrangeThing posted:I must say I'm a bit confused...breakthrough cases are super rare. If you're vaccinated, why use a respirator? Lots of reasons but lets start with the fact that vaccines dont' prevent you from spreading the delta variant and if you have people in your family, like literally your own children, who can't get vaxxed you can kill them You might as well ask "why wear a mask if you're vaccinated".
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Sep 9, 2021 02:03
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StrangeThing posted:I must say I'm a bit confused...breakthrough cases are super rare. If you're vaccinated, why use a respirator?
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Sep 9, 2021 02:03
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I didn't ask, "why wear a mask", I asked, "why wear a respirator". you guys are jumpy lol
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Sep 9, 2021 02:05
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StrangeThing posted:I didn't ask, "why wear a mask", I asked, "why wear a respirator". you guys are jumpy lol
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Sep 9, 2021 02:07
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StrangeThing posted:I didn't ask, "why wear a mask", I asked, "why wear a respirator". you guys are jumpy lol You said "breakthrough cases are rare". Why wear a mask then?
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Sep 9, 2021 02:07
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StrangeThing posted:I must say I'm a bit confused...breakthrough cases are super rare. If you're vaccinated, why use a respirator? Because you don't want to get sick and want to be sure you won't. A respirator with a P100 cart is 100% effective against letting COVID into your body, and nothing else is. If you're okay with other levels of risk exposure then you have much easier options like N95's and KN94's, which will mostly eliminate the chance of being exposed and make it very likely that any exposure you get will not have such a viral load that it puts you at risk. They are fine and I recommend them to anybody for whom they will be something they can comfortably do all the time, as compliance is paramount Breakthrough cases aren't super rare, serious illness among breakthrough cases are, and getting a bad but not ICU bad flu still really sucks rear end. There's only one option if you'd prefer to avoid that. I had "walking pneumonia" once and it was a huge nightmare I'd prefer to avoid. It's not for most but there's clearly interest in it so I'm happy to toss in what little I know. I'm personally N95+mask crew but prepared at any time to get my secure click and shave and enjoy absolute protection and talking like Bane all the time. Basically there's no reason NOT to do it if your primary concern is prevention of infection SubG posted:N95/KN95 masks are respirators. Also this yeah, it's just an upgraded version of what everybody already agrees is the best way to go Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 02:08
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SubG posted:N95/KN95 masks are respirators. ohhh I thought it was the big massive gas mask looking things Jaxyon posted:You said "breakthrough cases are rare". Why wear a mask then? my question was more trying to understand if using respirators is overkill or if cloth masks are fine, cause the overwhelming messaging in aus right now is that any mask is fine (we have mask mandates in melb)
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Sep 9, 2021 02:11
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droll posted:Do full face piece elastromeric masks that work with shorter beards? I wish I could grow a dwarf beard but also wish I could wear something that protects me. Full face masks have a smaller mask inside that's roughly the size of a half mask. Then a larger sealed area around the rest of your face. There are some facial hair styles that could work with respirators, but none that include hair under the face mask's seal. From personal experience, a little stubble is fine with a soft silicone mask. Like 1-2 days worth of growth, I can pass pressure and smell tests, but more than that and pressure tests get sketchy. Cheaper thermoplastic masks aren't as soft as silicone, so they're probably even more sensitive to stubble.
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Sep 9, 2021 02:11
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Epic High Five posted:Breakthrough cases aren't super rare Data says otherwise: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/briefing/risk-breakthrough-infections-delta.html In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with Covid symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can’t easily process it. My best attempt is to say that the Covid risks for most vaccinated people are of the same order of magnitude as risks that people unthinkingly accept every day, like riding in a vehicle.
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Sep 9, 2021 02:12
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StrangeThing posted:ohhh I thought it was the big massive gas mask looking things Cloth masks are generally just...okay, and the good news is that unless you're going to be in Sydney over the next few week "just okay" will probably be fine because community transmission is so low. I should've prefaced that my viewpoint is built around being in the Ork bloodlands of the USA where a single elementary school chosen at random has more active cases than your whole country
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Sep 9, 2021 02:13
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Jaxyon posted:Air's gonna take the path of least resistance. You can feel it with the n85 and kn95 for sure.
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Sep 9, 2021 02:13
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StrangeThing posted:Data says otherwise: "admitted to the hospital" as a caveat is still right flush with what I said though. You'll get sick with a breakthrough, but it won't come close to killing you. It'll suck rear end and you'll be infectious for a long time, it's a matter how much you want to prevent that
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Sep 9, 2021 02:14
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Epic High Five posted:"admitted to the hospital" as a caveat is still right flush with what I said though. You'll get sick with a breakthrough, but it won't come close to killing you. It'll suck rear end and you'll be infectious for a long time, it's a matter how much you want to prevent that I'm vaccinated and I'm obeying mask mandates in my city. As soon as they remove the mask mandate, it will be because the health experts in Melbourne say it's safe to do so. At that point I'll stop wearing one. I don't wear one when I'm outside doing exercise anyway, though to be fair I'm never around anyone when doing so.
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Sep 9, 2021 02:16
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So I think that the big question at this point is... if a hypothetical person is fully vaxxed, gets Covid in his nose, but has no symptoms; exactly how much virus is coming from this person relative to an unvaxxed person? And how long does the state of infectiousness last? Does anyone have any hard numbers backed by Real Science?
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Sep 9, 2021 02:16
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StrangeThing posted:ohhh I thought it was the big massive gas mask looking things Or at least that's the common technical/workplace nomenclature used in the US. I don't know about elsewhere.
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Sep 9, 2021 02:20
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