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HPL posted:No need for new lenses. Keep the new mirrorless camera an EF-S mount. It would simply be a Rebel with mirrorless technology. Everything else would be the same except for the addition of an EVF replacing the OVF. It would be a transition step. Get people used to the idea before yanking the rug out from under them with the M-system. Don't even make a big deal out of it. Just point out the advantages like how it's faster, quieter, more affordable etc etc. Sony is literally doing this right now with the A3000 and it's not really working.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:27
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Whats the point of going mirrorless without changing the mount to reflect registry distance of lacking a mirror? So some of yall think that canonikon could do a mirrorless while preserving their current mounts? How does that shrink the size? They already have done this, the SL1 and the rumored D2300 are both about as small as they can get while retaining their current mount.
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Feb 14, 2014 19:42
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HPL posted:Mirrorless means you can make a smaller camera, not that you have to. Like I said, it would be a transition thing where they make a mirrorless Rebel that looks just like a regular one. Mirrorless isn't an entirely familiar technology yet. Ma and Pa kettle don't know squat about mirrorless vs DSLR. They just want something that allows them to take great photos and looks cool (ie. not a point and shoot). The mirrorless Rebels will have fewer parts and should be theoretically easier to manufacture so the companies can keep the prices similar or lower them slightly and still improve their margins. It will also be a way for the manufacturers to build trust in mirrorless with folks that are still skeptical about it. It will also allow the companies to keep their entry-level camera bodies moving spec-wise seeing as they have stagnated with they technology they have right now. In order to turn the mirror tech into a next trendy thing to get both Canon and Nikon need to commit to it with full force. Both are too pussy foot to push advertise money behind it and mobilize the C/N fanbases. As a result, mirrorless camera is kind of like a half way adapted technology like Laser Disc. I bet Canon will release a few more mirrorless lens in Japanese for next 1-2 years and come back to US market again. They really need to cut out some weight from the EOS M too. I don't know what Nikon can do with the Nikon 1. Maybe just glue and lens and body together and make their version of RX100? I think the next evolution of camera technology is deep integration with your mobile OS. Hopefully both C/N can offer some new ideas in that area.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:16
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whatever7 posted:In order to turn the mirror tech into a next trendy thing to get both Canon and Nikon need to commit to it with full force. Both are too pussy foot to push advertise money behind it and mobilize the C/N fanbases. As a result, mirrorless camera is kind of like a half way adapted technology like Laser Disc. Cut weight? Why on earth would they do that, it's tiny to begin with. The only way to cut weight from it, would be to make it out of plastic instead of metal, and then all the OMG PLASTIC IS SO CHEAP I TRUST MY LIFE TO IT EVERY DAY WHEN I GET BEHIND THE WHEEL BUT NOT IN MY CAMERA CHIEF people would come out of the woodwork to accuse them of stealing money from them by cutting corners.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:29
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timrenzi574 posted:Cut weight? Why on earth would they do that, it's tiny to begin with. The only way to cut weight from it, would be to make it out of plastic instead of metal, and then all the OMG PLASTIC IS SO CHEAP I TRUST MY LIFE TO IT EVERY DAY WHEN I GET BEHIND THE WHEEL BUT NOT IN MY CAMERA CHIEF people would come out of the woodwork to accuse them of stealing money from them by cutting corners. It's much harder to hold than a NEX-3, or NEX-5. Every time I pick it up I feel like it will drop on my feet anytime. I think I am going to call it EOS Brick from now on.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:04
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whatever7 posted:It's much harder to hold than a NEX-3, or NEX-5. Every time I pick it up I feel like it will drop on my feet anytime. I think I am going to call it EOS Brick from now on. That's just because the grip is nonexistent poo poo more than the weight though. Franiec's grip is awesome, and it doesnt really change the size at all because it doesnt stick out farther than the 22/2. So unless you were stuffing it in a pants pocket with no lens, it's got the same portability, just with a hundred times better ergonomics. They could make it weigh next to nothing if they made it out of plastic, but it would still handle poorly if it only had that little rubber strip excuse for a grip on it IMO.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:20
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timrenzi574 posted:That's just because the grip is nonexistent poo poo more than the weight though. Franiec's grip is awesome, and it doesnt really change the size at all because it doesnt stick out farther than the 22/2. So unless you were stuffing it in a pants pocket with no lens, it's got the same portability, just with a hundred times better ergonomics. It must have something to do with the wright distribution. Its one of the hardest body to hold for me. Where do you place your thumb?
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Feb 14, 2014 21:30
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whatever7 posted:It must have something to do with the wright distribution. Its one of the hardest body to hold for me. Where do you place your thumb? In the little notch for it on the back, with it resting over the left side of the control wheel (so I can use back button focus with the side of my thumb) - this would be impossible to hold steady like this without the add on grip on the front though. Have you tried the franiec grip? It really makes a huge huge difference. you can see it adds a significant amount of grip over the stock "tiny strip of rubber"  I can get my middle finger really solid on that grip, and part of my ring finger. With my thumb up against the back, it's plenty secure in my hand, and I use it one handed comfortably sometimes. 
timrenzi574 fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 21:35
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Sooner or later, someone is going to create a true 1D-level mirrorless camera, probably by integrating mirrorless technology into traditional bodies. If a lowly A6000 can shoot 11fps with continuous AF, imagine what could be possible if Canon or Nikon went full kitchen-sink with a new FF pro body. Mirrorless would be good for that market because there would be fewer moving parts so it should be more rugged. You could work in innovations with the space the mirror used to take by having replaceable glass sensor covers so you could shoot in filthy conditions and not have to worry about getting dust on the sensor when swapping lenses because you could take out the guard and wash it when you get home or replace it with a new one. Sigma has non-replaceable glass covers for the sensors on their DSLRs. It's sort of like when the army switched from 7.62 to 5.56 ammo. They didn't keep the same same amount of ammo that a soldier carried at a reduced weight, they made the soldiers carry more ammo up to the equivalent weight of the old larger ammo. HPL fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 22:30
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HPL posted:Sooner or later, someone is going to create a true 1D-level mirrorless camera, probably by integrating mirrorless technology into traditional bodies. If a lowly A6000 can shoot 11fps with continuous AF, imagine what could be possible if Canon or Nikon went full kitchen-sink with a new FF pro body. Mirrorless would be good for that market because there would be fewer moving parts so it should be more rugged. You could work in innovations with the space the mirror used to take by having replaceable glass sensor covers so you could shoot in filthy conditions and not have to worry about getting dust on the sensor when swapping lenses because you could take out the guard and wash it when you get home or replace it with a new one. Sigma has non-replaceable glass covers for the sensors on their DSLRs. Sigma supremacy
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Feb 14, 2014 22:48
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Canon do already have a pair of pro-level mirrorless cameras. The C300 and C500. It'll be Canon's video fixation that will probably prompt them to switch an optical viewfinder for a electronic one.
Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 22:52
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HPL posted:
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Feb 14, 2014 23:00
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Fart Car '97 posted:Never ftfy.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:02
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Pablo Bluth posted:Canon do already has a pair of pro-level mirrorless cameras. The C300 and C500. It'll be Canon's video fixation that will probably prompt them to switch an optical viewfinder for a electronic one. Yeah. I don't really see some sort of mirrorless vs dslr thing being the future but a continued blurring of the line between stills and video. A pro level mirrorless with a global shutter is basically a high res video camera at that point. See: 4k video on the Nikon J1
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Feb 15, 2014 02:50
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thetzar posted:Now that PDAF pixels are getting extremely good, the removal of the mirror will happen. But you can get 2,000 shots to a charge on a small DSLR if you use it right — you're lucky to get 300 on a mirrorless. You just have a lovely camera then. Imaging-resource has the Nex-5N at 430 shots with 50% flash. I shot an entire fashion show (something like 400 pictures) and my battery was still above half charge. And that was in crappy light that was causing some AF hunting. Honestly what's wrong with "if you're going to be shooting literally thousands of shots, you may need to bring a second battery"? Are you really too cheap to buy a $20 spare battery to go with your $700 camera? Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 03:13
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Paul MaudDib posted:You just have a lovely camera then. Imaging-resource has the Nex-5N at 430 shots with 50% flash. I shot an entire fashion show (something like 400 pictures) and my battery was still above half charge. And that was in crappy light that was causing some AF hunting. I think he was taking about sensors with hybrid AF that use a lot of power. I am pretty sure 5n doesn't have hybrid AF.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:16
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I've taken literally thousands of pictures with my gripped om-d on a single charge. It's amazing what you can get when you disable the LCD and have the EVF off 95% of the time 
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Feb 15, 2014 03:21
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My NEX-F3 is rated at like 1200 shots, which happens to be more than I can fit RAW on my 32gb SD card.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:42
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In OLYMPUS NEWS they just announced a 7-14mm f2.8 and 300mm f4 prime. http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/02/12/new-olympus-7-14-2-8-pro-and-300-f4-pro-announced/
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Feb 15, 2014 04:21
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Paul MaudDib posted:You just have a lovely camera then. Imaging-resource has the Nex-5N at 430 shots with 50% flash. I shot an entire fashion show (something like 400 pictures) and my battery was still above half charge. And that was in crappy light that was causing some AF hunting. No but I the biggest thing i miss about my dslrs is sticking a battery in and not needing to worry about it forudays at a time. Its a legit complaint and a weakness of mirrorless systems.
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Feb 15, 2014 05:20
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it's happening! http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5988185050/fujfilm-interview-the-only-way-is-to-keep-innovating quote:There is an interesting interview with a Fuji manager at the CP+ on dpreview here. Here some excerpts:
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Feb 15, 2014 17:03
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It's sad that a camera manufacturer thinks it's doing some revolutionary and beautiful thing by supporting cameras it has sold.
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Feb 15, 2014 17:15
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Helicity posted:It's sad that a camera manufacturer thinks it's doing some revolutionary and beautiful thing by supporting cameras it has sold. Adding features to a camera after release is pretty revolutionary.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:09
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MrBlandAverage posted:Adding features to a camera after release is pretty revolutionary.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:14
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evil_bunnY posted:The point is that it shouldn't be. I guess so, but good on Fuji for being the first manufacturer to take the idea seriously.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:18
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Still waiting for focus peaking on my E-M5. 
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Feb 15, 2014 18:44
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Still waiting for working auto ISO on my M.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:51
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spankmeister posted:Still waiting for focus peaking on my E-M5. Wait I thought EM-5 had focus peaking?
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Feb 15, 2014 18:54
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krooj posted:Still waiting for working auto ISO on my M. They just put it on the 1DX , so knowing Canon it will trickle down to the 5D this year, prosumer in 2016, and consumer in 2020
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Feb 15, 2014 19:10
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It's interesting that the manager interviewed mentioned Fuji slowing down the release of new models in reaction to customer confusion. I can't help but feel like the strategy is going to be to fill out the remainder of their APS-C lens lineup (as they stated in the interview), followed by the announcement of a FF X200, maybe at Photokina with a market date at around December or January.
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Feb 15, 2014 19:11
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timrenzi574 posted:They just put it on the 1DX , so knowing Canon it will trickle down to the 5D this year, prosumer in 2016, and consumer in 2020 I am not familiar with Canon, so how's auto ISO broken? The M has some real fuckery about : -With the body in aperture priority and auto ISO on, shoots ISO variable per-exposure, as you'd expect. -When you change to a specified shutter speed (manual mode), the camera menu says auto ISO is ON, but it shoots every frame at the last auto ISO value. So if you're shooting in variable lighting or a place with really high contrast, you might use auto ISO and have a shot at 1600, then switch to 1/60 sec from auto shutter, and even if the next frame should use an ISO of say 400, the camera actually uses 1600...
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Feb 15, 2014 19:17
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keyframe posted:Wait I thought EM-5 had focus peaking? No, it doesn't. You can (mis)use an art filter that kinda does it but it's not anywhere near Sony's. e: There's talk of it coming in a future firmware update, but the source of that was tentative at best so I'm not holding my breath.
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Feb 15, 2014 19:19
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krooj posted:It's interesting that the manager interviewed mentioned Fuji slowing down the release of new models in reaction to customer confusion. I can't help but feel like the strategy is going to be to fill out the remainder of their APS-C lens lineup (as they stated in the interview), followed by the announcement of a FF X200, maybe at Photokina with a market date at around December or January. He said they are going to combine XM1 and XA1 into one model in the future.
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Feb 15, 2014 19:24
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krooj posted:I am not familiar with Canon, so how's auto ISO broken? Specifically, they don't allow exposure compensation in manual with auto-iso. So you have to see what the meter wants in auto-iso, then hit the iso button and select the ISO you want manually to compensate. It just makes the process a little more of a pain, when they could easily allow you to EC a value in for shifting what the meter wanted. If you just want fast shutter + lowest ISO possible, it's not so bad in shutter priority, because it will usually just peg the lens wide open anyway, but if you specifically wanted fast shutter & stopped down a bit, it's a small hassle. Canon finally added this in the last 1DX firmware, but like I said, knowing them it will take years to trickle down such an "Advanced shooting feature" to the lowly peon bodies.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:14
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I get around that by shooting Av, but set the shutter through the auto ISO menu. This way it's pseudo M while I can work the exposure comp dial. But still Canon...even Pentax has this poo poo figured out.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:22
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Mightaswell posted:I get around that by shooting Av, but set the shutter through the auto ISO menu. This way it's pseudo M while I can work the exposure comp dial. Which is fine if you don't need to go over 1/250, since they don't let you set a minimum faster than that (unless the fancy pants pro bodies have that covered too, which wouldn't surprise me in the least)
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Feb 15, 2014 20:26
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I can't remember. I usually use these settings for kids indoors, so I set 1/125 and forget it. But yeah, I agree completely that no exposure comp in auto ISO mode is lame.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:29
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You guys, software is hard... let's release another body!
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Feb 15, 2014 20:34
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Mightaswell posted:I can't remember. I usually use these settings for kids indoors, so I set 1/125 and forget it. But yeah, I agree completely that no exposure comp in auto ISO mode is lame. I guess it doesn't occur to canon that people might use all of their pretty white long lenses to take pictures of moving objects that don't have an 18% gray card as a background.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:48
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timrenzi574 posted:I guess it doesn't occur to canon that people might use all of their pretty white long lenses to take pictures of moving objects that don't have an 18% gray card as a background. I dislike not having exposure comp in M with auto-ISO on as much as the next guy, but on the other hand using auto-ISO in M sort of takes the "M" out of M, if you know what I mean. Just use A or Tv with Auto ISO and enjoy your function exposure comp, and someday if Canon cares to fix it in M they will.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:54
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