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Midjack posted:Fair enough; I've done the right thing at high personal cost more than once so I'm willing to launch resumes and burn the motherfucker down. Realistically, going to the DoL is not in Sundae's personal best interests in the particular case of Sundae v. Global Pharma Megaconglomerate. What happens is: Sundae complains to DoL DoL investigates, creating a mountain of red tape DoL either finds no violation (70%) or fines them an amount that sounds massive to us but is couch change to a global pharma conglomerate Sundae is managed out over the next ~6 months in a way that is absolutely definitely not legally provable retaliation End result: Global pharma conglomerate suffers a nuisance on the scale of a mosquito bite; Sundae suffers life upheaval, and may also find it difficult to continue his career in the same field. If you're in Sundae's position and you really want to get the local DoL involved, you do it only after you've already secured your next job. But it's probably still better for you not to. Also it is far from guaranteed that any other big pharma company Sundae might jump to is any better in terms of forcing employees to come to work sick. Sundae knows personally and intimately that employers in that industry can be a lot worse.
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Oct 28, 2023 17:42
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^^^ A solid post I agree with 100%. Unrelated I gave my notice yesterday, not the way I had hoped as the manager was unavailable for a call all afternoon so I panicked and just emailed it because I wanted to get it done. Ah well. Overall the company is pretty good to employees but both a recent reorg and change in product focus had me really questioning it, and then there was the extremely slow roll of hiring additional resources and getting us a proper lab space for development. I had given a self imposed deadline of 18 months for the latter and they're way over and who knows what the plans would be now that locally I'd be the only person left. Time to just go.
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Oct 28, 2023 17:58
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I agree with the above advice and I am also not 100% certain based on Sundae's post if they are really making them use a vacation day for a day they were WFH all day knowingly, but holy poo poo would I burn down everything with little regard to myself if that happened.
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Oct 28, 2023 19:12
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Sundae posted:3) Sick time got seriously cracked down on HARD. We only get 3 days of protected sick leave now, and the 5 days of COVID leave are gone in the system moving forward. Need to be out more than three days in a year for illness? Start using your vacation days. The three days used to be no big deal because everyone unofficially just took more time. You can't do that if they're tracking consecutive days out of the office and average days in office. Get this poo poo in writing, then talk to HR. The "three protected days" are a California thing. The state says everyone at any job gets three sick days a year, and they check that those get used. You should have both "protected" and regular sick leave in Workday. One of my co-workers needed surgery recently and he was just plain out for two weeks, and then took 3 weeks doctor-ordered WFH. He's not in RTO trouble. But also yeah, our Swiss overlords hate us.
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Oct 28, 2023 19:28
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mllaneza posted:Get this poo poo in writing, then talk to HR. The "three protected days" are a California thing. The state says everyone at any job gets three sick days a year, and they check that those get used. You should have both "protected" and regular sick leave in Workday. I responded to this over PM, btw. Once we're digging into the HR portal and workday, it's a bit too much to post publicly.  quote:I agree with the above advice and I am also not 100% certain based on Sundae's post if they are really making them use a vacation day for a day they were WFH all day knowingly, but holy poo poo would I burn down everything with little regard to myself if that happened. I won't know until after I get back from my upcoming vacation if it's going to be applied that way.  We'll see! My general experience with megacompanies is pretty aligned with what Eric posted; you don't actually win when you "fight the man", because the man has infinite money and probably makes more than your entire family's collective life earnings across all generations ever in less than a day. You're lucky if your annual salary accounts for one minute of their earnings. Mine accounts for 2.1 minutes, making me pretty lucky! You "win" against corporate horseshit by slipping through the cracks and having it not pay any attention to you at all, not by standing tall and having a staring contest with the Eye of Sauron, to go full-nerd on the thread.
Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 21:15
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Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locallyquote:"I received resignation email from <priznat> late yesterday (Friday). Sadly, <p> did not give me or <+1 lvl>, a chance to chat about his reasons for leaving, nor an opportunity to discuss if he would stay. His last day is Nov 10. hoo boy so drat salty
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Oct 29, 2023 06:17
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lol dare i say lmao
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Oct 29, 2023 06:29
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quote:There is still a future!!
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Oct 29, 2023 06:36
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Because I'm now #5 (and counting) the panic is really setting in and so anyone quitting from now on should probably expect this kind of poo poo. I don't give a gently caress and find it funny and also makes me feel I reeeeeally made the right call lmao. I am tempted to call the skip level and say "come getcha boy" lol
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Oct 29, 2023 06:41
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priznat posted:Because I'm now #5 (and counting) the panic is really setting in and so anyone quitting from now on should probably expect this kind of poo poo. I don't give a gently caress and find it funny and also makes me feel I reeeeeally made the right call lmao. WOW. Yeah, your manager either got really drunk or took off his mask for a second there, because you just don't send those messages. 
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Oct 29, 2023 06:51
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He really does expect people to come to him before they are thinking of leaving, like how would that even work anyway? I had been bringing up issues I've been having with the lack of facilities, IT issues, purchasing problems, lack of resources being hired, unclear project plans and on top of everything the original team manager leaving. Apart from a job posting going up literally a month after he left not one of those have been addressed at all in the 2 years I have been here. I don't know what they expect me to chat about now!
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Oct 29, 2023 06:54
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Delicious, delicious salt 
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Oct 29, 2023 06:58
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quote:Clearly, the strong positive messaging of <company's> commitment to <project tech> and next project has missed the mark for some. The messaging has landed positively for many FW team members. Please keep this in mind: if the company wasn't committed, the RIF in july would have impacted everyone in <division>. Positions are being backfilled. There is still a future!! "im not owned! im not owned!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob. Honestly, saying "if the company didn't believe in this, they would have fired all of you too so that they could be a fraction of a percent richer" doesn't seem like very positive messaging!!!
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Oct 29, 2023 08:27
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priznat posted:hoo boy so drat salty God it reminds me of an email that came around when one of the most well-liked and critical employees was suddenly and unceremoniously dismissed, and the director sent an email to the whole department slagging off on him. It was such a bad look. Fortunately I was already on my way out the door.
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Oct 29, 2023 09:08
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priznat posted:He really does expect people to come to him before they are thinking of leaving, like how would that even work anyway? It sounds like you had been coming to management for the past couple years regarding issues that needed addressing, before you were seriously thinking of leaving, just like he wanted you to.
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Oct 29, 2023 12:47
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Sundae posted:WOW. Yeah, your manager either got really drunk or took off his mask for a second there, because you just don't send those messages. The amount of "holy poo poo, why would you share that with me?" stories from my own managers and others seems to have grown exponentially in the past 5-7 years.
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Oct 29, 2023 13:22
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priznat posted:Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locally lol he said he didn't have a chance to chat about your reasons but you're still there til the 10th? Is he... dumb?
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Oct 29, 2023 13:29
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Lol, that manager is in full blown panic mode. How long has he been interim manager?
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Oct 29, 2023 14:03
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Can we, like, put that email in the OP? It's so delicious. Better yet, put it in a syringe and inject it into my veins. 
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Oct 29, 2023 14:19
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priznat posted:He really does expect people to come to him before they are thinking of leaving, like how would that even work anyway? Dear immediate boss, I’m writing you to let you know that I am entertaining other jobs because now that you’ve hired all your buddies you’ve become really obnoxious. In particular I find it grating that I am in that goddamned building for 14 hours uninterrupted and you are never available and somehow the fact you never see me is a ME problem. Anyway I’m not planning on leaving tomorrow but if the right job comes along I’m out of here like a shot. It isn’t 100% about you but you definitely contributed. Glad we could have this talk.
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Oct 29, 2023 14:46
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priznat posted:Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locally Corporate Megathread: there is still a future!!
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Oct 29, 2023 14:58
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quote:It's very disappointing to see the attrition affect co-workers (and families). The optics within the small local high-tech community (<city name>) has a broad reach with strong memory recall. A - differentiating between co-workers and families. Implicit admission of a failure to foster a family environment in the office. B - what do the optics of a whole rear end team following a manager to a new company say about the original organization
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Oct 29, 2023 15:43
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priznat posted:Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locally Hah, who did he send this to?
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Oct 29, 2023 16:24
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Democratic Pirate posted:B - what do the optics of a whole rear end team following a manager to a new company say about the original organization It's this, this is the most delicious part.
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Oct 29, 2023 16:24
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Baddog posted:Hah, who did he send this to? Everyone who remains in the group (3 people from a team of 8), lol. I had a feeling this would get weird when he sent out a long email about how we shouldn’t do farewell lunches the other day lol. It’s really funny because everyone I have shown this to, even people like my wife who has worked at the same place for 22 years and had no idea about the customs for quitting is like “wow that’s really hosed up” lmao
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Oct 29, 2023 16:32
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priznat posted:Everyone who remains in the group (3 people from a team of 8), lol. So is this guy one of the people your skip level brought in? Or is there an actual chance for consequences?
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Oct 29, 2023 16:53
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priznat posted:I am tempted to call the skip level and say "come getcha boy" lol Drop that bad boy over to his skip level and HR 100%. It might not be the greatest outcome for everyone, but it certainly would be the funniest.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:00
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Volmarias posted:So is this guy one of the people your skip level brought in? Or is there an actual chance for consequences? This guy is the manager of an adjacent team to mine and he stepped up to manage my team as well when the manager left. So far it has only been people on my team leaving to follow the manager but I do know a couple from his team who are planning their exits as well and man he is going to go loving crazy when that happens. I’m trying to find out if the skip level was cc’d on that email or no. I am guessing probably not but who knows!
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Oct 29, 2023 17:32
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Everyone is going to blame the first manager who left and this guy probably won't take the fall but it's funny to watch him flip out.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:44
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Lockback posted:Everyone is going to blame the first manager who left and this guy probably won't take the fall but it's funny to watch him flip out. It’s funny because when that manager left they were all professional and friendly, with a farewell lunch and told us to get him a gift on the company CC. Now that I’m the last of his team to leave too it’s “HOW DARE YOU STAB US IN THE BACK LIKE THIS?!?!?” Total tonal whiplash.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:51
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priznat posted:It’s funny because when that manager left they were all professional and friendly, with a farewell lunch and told us to get him a gift on the company CC. That manager made room for him, so farewell lunch good. You and others leaving reflects poorly on him, so farewell lunch bad.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:53
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Cheesus posted:Did MBA courses ever generally teach an "optics/motivating your charges" type course and stop in the past 20 years? Or was it always one of those hallowed bits of knowledge you learn on the job? A number of years ago, they hired an outside consultant to lead our team. In my intro with him, he told me about the time he took his son to a nude beach in Italy when his son was 14.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:58
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That salty email was  Tnuctip posted:As a former project manager, twice, PMs are not real managers. If you like gannt charts and spreadsheets then it’s right up your alley, but you’ll look forward to doing engineering tasks as a special treat every now and then. Now I do product/strategy on top of the IC work instead, way more rewarding. Someone else can keep the gantt charts updated TYVM Dilber posted:A number of years ago, they hired an outside consultant to lead our team. In my intro with him, he told me about the time he took his son to a nude beach in Italy when his son was 14. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 18:52
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Dilber posted:A number of years ago, they hired an outside consultant to lead our team. In my intro with him, he told me about the time he took his son to a nude beach in Italy when his son was 14. A candidate I did NOT hire (for reasons unrelated to this, to be fair) gave his intro presentation and had a picture of himself in a body-building speedo as part of the "about me" section. The guy's hobby was competing in body-building competitions. Kudos to the physique underneath the suit, but yeah. Someone needs to remind career advisors that it's not just if you're memorable to the interviewer, but how you're memorable too. "Well, his scientific knowledge was sub-par but he definitely put his almost-naked rear end in our faces in the presentation. Does that count for anything?"
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Oct 29, 2023 19:19
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Every team needs a honeypot
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Oct 29, 2023 19:23
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priznat posted:Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locally 
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Oct 29, 2023 19:31
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evil_bunnY posted:It’s so funny hearing about the american corporate culture being so PC. The USA is relatively prudish about anything that could be construed as sexual in the first place, the majority of states have made nude beaches illegal or heavily restrict them, some don't allow minors at all, etc etc. There is almost no social circle in the USA where you could tell people that you took your 14-yr-old son to a nude beach and not raise eyebrows at best / be ostracized at worst, and (no idea on the odds, but...) nobody would be surprised when the police visited you if it was your 14-yr-old daughter instead. That's American culture, not just corporate culture here.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:38
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priznat posted:Interim manager is big mad that I'm the last person to quit locally Man, as bad an idea as it would be, it would be so tempting to send back "Thank you for confirming that I have made the right decision"
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Oct 29, 2023 21:13
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docbeard posted:Man, as bad an idea as it would be, it would be so tempting to send back "Thank you for confirming that I have made the right decision" Haha yes absolutely. He didn’t send it to me though instead I got it 2nd hand, so as far as he is concerned I haven’t seen it. So now I can interact with him totally professionally and civilly all while thinking “ha ha you fuckin goof”
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Oct 29, 2023 21:27
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priznat posted:Haha yes absolutely. He didn’t send it to me though instead I got it 2nd hand, so as far as he is concerned I haven’t seen it. So now I can interact with him totally professionally and civilly all while thinking “ha ha you fuckin goof” You weren't before?
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Oct 29, 2023 23:01
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