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I'm still debating which of my characters I want to buff up to 85. My primary goal is to have a character I can just go and eff around in old world content anytime I'm feeling nostalgic. On this account I have a Rogue, a Necro, a Bard and a Druid. I'm ruling out the druid and the rogue, the druid would be nice but I have a wizard on another account for teleporting. I'm thinking the necro will probably be best for just solo/molo action, but the Bard would be nice too as he can use Fading Memories to drop agro whenever, can run at the speed of light, and can track if I feel like looking for "rare" mobs. If I decide to multi-box again, I have a Wizard, Mage and Shaman all at 85 from free accounts created a few years ago.
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Mar 20, 2014 16:23
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With the bard you could pretty much go anywhere in old world. I use my bard for exploring Vex Thal and Sleepers Tomb and stuff because he can illusion through any locked doors and dump aggro without having to kill tons of trash.
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Mar 20, 2014 16:43
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Yeah if you're just looking for a spelunking character it's hard to go wrong with a bard. They can do so much wacky poo poo, drop aggro instantly and wedge their way into anything they can't lockpick. Plus they finally made tracking not suck horribly for anyone who isn't a ranger so you don't even have to mentally sort anymore!
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Mar 20, 2014 17:08
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The best way to TS is to max salvage, grab your trophy quest at 50, you don't need to finish it right away, and don't get TS AAs. Since you can skill up on failures, it's better to salvage the mats than to actually succeed. Clear your bags then load up mats for 2000ish Combines and let a macro go to town. Do one in the morning and one at night you can 300 all TS in a few days. It's some serious plat though. Much easier if you're on test for test copies. Took me a couple days for shawl1 and a couple for shawl2, then like two hours for shawl 3.
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Mar 20, 2014 17:54
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Stanos posted:Yeah if you're just looking for a spelunking character it's hard to go wrong with a bard. They can do so much wacky poo poo, drop aggro instantly and wedge their way into anything they can't lockpick. Plus they finally made tracking not suck horribly for anyone who isn't a ranger so you don't even have to mentally sort anymore! That's right...I had forgotten about the tracking "fix". Sounds like Bard is gonna be my choice.
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Mar 20, 2014 18:15
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Is there a consensus or list somewhere of all the classes with epics that are worth doing at this point? It seems like everyone agrees that Necro and SK 2.0s are essential but I can't decide if its worth doing the Paladin one, among others.
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Mar 20, 2014 20:30
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suuma posted:Is there a consensus or list somewhere of all the classes with epics that are worth doing at this point? It seems like everyone agrees that Necro and SK 2.0s are essential but I can't decide if its worth doing the Paladin one, among others. You a terrible paladin if you don't have your epic. Every class should have their 2.0s, except for druid, and I think mages? Not all of the epics are as essential as Necro, or SK ones, but almost all of them provide a benefit worth having.
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Mar 20, 2014 21:04
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jetz0r posted:You a terrible paladin if you don't have your epic. Druid, wizard, mage, enchanter are all worthless. Shaman, necro, bard, sk are all critical. Everyone else is somewhere in between.
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Mar 20, 2014 21:11
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Paladin 1.0 will always be worth doing because it's a sword on fire and looks rad. I did the BST 2.0 and usually don't remember to click it. Druid one is literally useless past...90? Might be earlier. Bard/Shaman epic 2.0s are nearly as required because you will never replace those clickies and afaik the rest are just kind of in the nice to have category but not essential. Druid epic also is guilty of the heresy of being a goddamn stick when druids should use scimitars. 
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Mar 20, 2014 21:11
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Warrior epic is pretty junk but 1.0 looks sick so get it and do the ornament quest.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:51
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Thanks duders, tradeskills were always bullshit when I did what little I needed doing for epics so I avoided them, now they don't look so complicated. Because I'm a terrible person and feel like half of Grounds isn't enough for me I'm PLing a third SK to basically take everything. I know I can swarm the T3 mission Offering To Thule so I might try to just swarm a T4 zone instead. Won't be hot zone XP but might make up for it being higher level.
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Mar 21, 2014 00:47
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You're a punk rear end busta if you don't have your 1.0 considering how shockingly trivial they are now.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:52
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saintonan posted:Druid, wizard, mage, enchanter are all worthless. Shaman, necro, bard, sk are all critical. Everyone else is somewhere in between. Paladin 2.0 is critical, there is no question. It's a percentage based increase to heals that lands on you and a weak proc that doesn't matter today. It gets better with each expansion as heals get better.
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Mar 21, 2014 06:59
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Seeing this thread makes me want to install again. My crappy Paladin got a custom GM title *the Vanquisher* and it is calling my name! It would be fun to go back and get epics too lol.
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Mar 21, 2014 08:27
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Shrapnig posted:You're a punk rear end busta if you don't have your 1.0 considering how shockingly trivial they are now. I just dinged 51 (rogue) about an hour ago. I have everything but the Kedge robe and the book from Hate. 15/25 and 40% haste is Godly at 51. Hopefully I can convince some friends to help with Renux and the General, while my 85 SK can kill the Coercer for the Robe of the Kedge if my level 5 Halfer can spy her out in the robe :-).
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Mar 21, 2014 08:34
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DerekSmartymans posted:I just dinged 51 (rogue) about an hour ago. I have everything but the Kedge robe and the book from Hate. 15/25 and 40% haste is Godly at 51. Hopefully I can convince some friends to help with Renux and the General, while my 85 SK can kill the Coercer for the Robe of the Kedge if my level 5 Halfer can spy her out in the robe :-). Why wouldn't you just use a tank merc to kill Renux/General? Or the 85 SK? Either would be extreme overkill. I might have a robe of the kedge in my bank, I'll check when I leave the zone I'm in. Edit: I don't, but I went and killed Phinny at exactly 4:38am CST and he's on an exact 12 hour respawn so you know when he'll be up Also whoever it was that needed the Soul Leech from Fear golems I have one I can MQ for you if you're on Test, Passenger is the name Also have multiple copies of the entire shaman 1.0 for anyone else Midnight City fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 09:55
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Is there any benefit to having an actual cleric instead of cleric merc in a boxed group? Now that I made the decision on my bard vs. necro, I have another account that I was planning on making the cleric heroic on...now I'm debating doing a SK or Necro.
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Mar 21, 2014 13:46
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If it's just going to be a cleric box then no, there are far better things to use as a box (shaman/bard). Cleric mercs aren't bad if you block off the Promise line and elixir lines.
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Mar 21, 2014 13:59
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Medullah posted:Is there any benefit to having an actual cleric instead of cleric merc in a boxed group? Now that I made the decision on my bard vs. necro, I have another account that I was planning on making the cleric heroic on...now I'm debating doing a SK or Necro. Box clerics are far far better healers than your merc, and will allow you to use wizard mercs, which will greatly increase your dps.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:00
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Weird logic, if he's going to put in the effort of boxing something well then he'd be far better off choosing an actual wiz which would greatly out DPS the lovely caster merc.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:10
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Midnight City posted:Weird logic, if he's going to put in the effort of boxing something well then he'd be far better off choosing an actual wiz which would greatly out DPS the lovely caster merc. And boxing a wizard + cleric merc is much lower stress and effort than boxing a cleric + wizard merc. When you mess up with the boxed cleric, everyone dies. When you mess up with the boxed wizard, the trash dies slightly slower.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:16
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I'd only play a cleric if you intend to main it in a box group, healing is just such...effort. Real clerics are real fuckin good though, shining armor is neat but they have the worst priest damage for when you don't badly need heals last I checked. Cleric mercs do some real stupid poo poo if you don't set them up properly but they're serviceable at least.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:26
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Basically here's what I have right now - 85 Wizard 85 Bard 85 Mage 85 Shaman When I boxed last year for a while, I was doing Shaman + Mage + Druid with two tank mercs and my cleric in the group. Obviously this was when they were all ~level 60 so it was a bit different. It wasn't too hard using the cleric (I had hot keys set up that did ctrl+alt+party member number to cast big heal, another combination for heal over time, etc), but it seemed like it was simplistic enough that a cleric merc might have been a better move.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:28
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Midnight City posted:If it's just going to be a cleric box then no, there are far better things to use as a box (shaman/bard). Cleric mercs aren't bad if you block off the Promise line and elixir lines. Say what? You block DoT heals and it forces the merc to just use direct heals? Is it actually better healing to do that?
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Mar 21, 2014 14:31
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Tai posted:Say what? You block DoT heals and it forces the merc to just use direct heals? Is it actually better healing to do that? Yes. Cleric mercs have a high tendency to always start out casting elixir first regardless of your health, sometimes it's better that way (i.e. fighting mobs that aren't dishing out high damage) but a good portion of the time you'll die before they finish casting elixir + the heal they should've been casting from the beginning. Edit: This isn't something you need to worry about in low level stuff, it isn't until you're fighting legit poo poo that you'll have to worry about it. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 14:39
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Midnight City posted:Weird logic, if he's going to put in the effort of boxing something well then he'd be far better off choosing an actual wiz which would greatly out DPS the lovely caster merc. You don't have to box clerics well for them to be light-years better than mercs. Three macros cover 95% of the circumstances, and it's no harder than the claw social you'll use on a boxed wizard, plus you actually get things like Shining Bastion, DI, DS mitigation, and the host of other things clerics have that your cleric merc will never cast. The question is whether you want superior heals and ok dps, or ok heals and superior dps. If I'm a tank or melee dps class, I probably want the former. If I'm a caster, I probably want the latter.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:12
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If you're using 3 macros to box your cleric then your cleric isn't doing anything that the healer merc wouldn't do just as easily, except you've limited your DPS to that of a lovely caster merc. This isn't apples vs oranges it's artificial orange flavor water vs actual orange juice. Don't play a cleric unless you're specifically wanting to be a cleric.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:29
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Midnight City posted:If you're using 3 macros to box your cleric then your cleric isn't doing anything that the healer merc wouldn't do just as easily That's absolutely untrue. You should try it sometime.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:32
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I have a 100 of every class, most maxed AA, with KISS running them, even if I didn't it's basic loving logic that a cleric PC will heal the group more mana efficiently while sticking you with a merc who will do at best 1/4 the DPS of an actual caster. If you're grinding somewhere that the healer merc is what's limiting you then you shouldn't be there to begin with. The original question was if there's any benefit to boxing a cleric, the short answer is no, the long answer is yes but the cons far outweigh the few pros, you're the only one who doesn't seem to understand that.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:37
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Midnight City posted:Why wouldn't you just use a tank merc to kill Renux/General? Or the 85 SK? Either would be extreme overkill. I might have a robe of the kedge in my bank, I'll check when I leave the zone I'm in. I did not think the tank merc could handle either mob, but in all honesty most epic guides were written ten years ago. I also was wanting to get my epic around lvl 51-55, around which my tank merc would not be able to handle the high lvl General. Renux is only 50, but is a real monster with that clockwork poison. If she spun my tank I don't think I would last long as a rogue. Finally I am too nervous to try and camp out without agroing either mob so that the 85 SK can log back in. From what I remember both mobs will poof if they are not agroed within a certain (fairly quick) time limit. Also, I am not on Test. I rolled on EMarr because it is the server I played on until I quit in 2004.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:51
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Midnight City posted:I have a 100 of every class, most maxed AA, with KISS running them, even if I didn't it's basic loving logic that a cleric PC will heal the group more mana efficiently while sticking you with a merc who will do at best 1/4 the DPS of an actual caster. If you're grinding somewhere that the healer merc is what's limiting you then you shouldn't be there to begin with. Sorry I don't spend my entire time swarming light blue mobs from three expansions ago. Go hit things in CotF and see which healer you'd rather have. This is especially true if you're not a tank class. quote:The original question was if there's any benefit to boxing a cleric, the short answer is no, the long answer is yes but the cons far outweigh the few pros, you're the only one who doesn't seem to understand that. Nothing I've said is incorrect. If you're spending 100% of your time in trivial content, then nothing matters and you can bring whatever you want. It's absolutely true, though, that actual cleric characters are much better than merc clerics. If that distinction doesn't matter to you personally, then fine, but that doesn't mean the distinction doesn't exist.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:53
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My main is a Warrior and I boxed a Cleric and Shaman fulltime until mercs came out. Ditched the cleric and never looked back. I ended up replacing the cleric with a Necro. I box manually, meaning no ISBoxer or other things (below), and the maintenance of having to manually heal is just not worth the effort after mercs showed up. Obviously, real clerics destroy the capabilities of a merc but for XP grinding, how much do you really *need* out of a cleric? If your need is to just keep a tank alive, mercs all the way. I would suggest boxing anything that has more to offer than a cleric, they aren't very multifaceted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnbPSDHjrBE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TpDBgS4Be0
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Mar 21, 2014 15:59
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saintonan posted:dumb poo poo How many people do you need telling you that you're wrong before you start to realize it? Is it four? Five? Tell me, please god tell me.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:01
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qxx posted:I box manually, meaning no ISBoxer or other things I am interested in hearing this process explained!
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Mar 21, 2014 16:05
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Midnight City posted:How many people do you need telling you that you're wrong before you start to realize it? Is it four? Five? Tell me, please god tell me. First I have to actually, you know, be wrong. The problem is that we're talking about doing different things. You're randomly xp grinding, I'm doing achievements and missions. I've said repeatedly that if you're doing trivial things, none of this matters and anything will work.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:10
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saintonan posted:First I have to actually, you know, be wrong. The problem is that we're talking about doing different things. You're randomly xp grinding, I'm doing achievements and missions. I've said repeatedly that if you're doing trivial things, none of this matters and anything will work. There is no conceivable way in which "achievements and missions" works out better by having a boxed cleric over a high DPS in nearly any situation. The best case scenario for your dumb situation is that the cleric is more mana efficient, which is still wrong due to you actually taking far more damage due to the mob, you know, still being alive for twice the time it would have been if it'd just had actual DPS on it you fool. If you're in a mission where the merc healer isn't keeping you alive then you are either doing something wrong or you're in poo poo gear. Between multiple people telling you you're wrong, basic math telling you you're wrong, it's time to admit to yourself you're wrong, or just keep digging your heels in and making more of an rear end out of yourself.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:18
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I just hit 100 and am doing CotF missions with a healer merc and am having no issues hth. Also I'm totally not even cancelling the HoT and promise spell lines either.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:24
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Clerics are just not good boxes, sorry. Bastion is great but give me a boxed druid/shaman any day of the week. Shaman can be boiled down to a few easy macros for what you need, druids need a bit more and both do a lot more damage for fights where you don't need a cleric merc and a priest. Shaman - Have more melee buffs/puma - Good HoTs you can control - 2.0 click - As mentioned before, can make about 3-4 macros and do well enough for a box. Fast DoTs, OH poo poo stuff, burn stuff, hot/canni macro Druid - Teleports/TP Bind (remarkably useful, bind at annoying quest givers/camps like Windsong Caco Shard camp and Sanctum Somnium) - Great damage for a priest - Remote line heals and does damage - Storm Strike or whatever owns - Not as braindead as a boxed shaman but can still do fairly well as a box Compared to a cleric that does the worst damage, least general utility but has the best heals to compensate. The issue here is if you don't need the healing a cleric provides (IE you run a merc healer/priest like a decent amount of boxers) the cleric is basically dead weight. Don't get me wrong, I'd take a guildie cleric over a cleric merc but you're only hurting yourself boxing one if it isn't going to be your main focus in the raid game or you're playing with friends. Healer mercs are by far the most serviceable mercs. But for general stuff that most goons are going to do on test (missions, group content, raidahhaahahahahahahahhaha  ) 2 cleric mercs or a merc/priest will be fine for harder stuff and if you're group grinding and constantly need 2 healer mercs you are doing something WAY wrong.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:34
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Hey boxing a cleric is a waste of time vs boxing a wizard. Caster mercs are way under what a few hotkeys on a real wizard can do.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:38
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DerekSmartymans posted:I am interested in hearing this process explained! It's nothing new, actually it's the old way of boxing. I just guess pretty much everyone uses ISBoxer nowadays but I'm still stuck doing it the old way because old habits die hard. There was a boxing thread on EQLive recently that had a lot of decent info about different boxing styles. I wrote a reply to someone that couldn't imagine someone 3+ boxing without ISBoxer.  Also: "Audio triggers for...warrior going into berserker frenzy..." I could not even begin to count how many times this audio trigger has saved my group. If a warrior is your box group tank, definitely make this. I use a CLR merc for my main healing, and I spend most of my time on the NEC/SHM screens so I don't always notice how my WAR's health is holding up. That audio trigger let's me know that I've dropped below 40% without having to look at it and if the AT is firing a lot it lets me know that things are getting dicey and I'll step up some healing with the SHM. Anyway, it's helped a ton. I have the 'Link at low health' sound from SNES Zelda fire whenever Quarken goes into a berserker frenzy! And on the topic of Audio Triggers and SNES Zelda...which I'm sure we all agree is one of the greatest games of all time...this website has like every sounds in great quality from SNES Zelda and they make *bitchin* audio trigger sounds. qxx fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 16:51
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