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Joementum posted:Uhh, he's got glasses now. I can't wait for the first joke about that.
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May 6, 2014 03:16
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If JEB runs he's going to be billed as "like W except smart!!" A lot of people thought W was folksy and charming, and being able to hand wave away one of his biggest perceived faults is gonna be a big deal for them.
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May 6, 2014 04:35
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AndNowMax posted:If JEB runs he's going to be billed as "like W except smart!!" A lot of people thought W was folksy and charming, and being able to hand wave away one of his biggest perceived faults is gonna be a big deal for them. Being dumb isn't my main problem with Bush, lying to the American public in order to prosecute an unnecessary war that killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, and instead of making our country safer further destabilized the Middle East creating a breeding ground for more terrorists. That's my major problem with Bush. The dumb thing just made it easier to laugh at him instead of clawing out my own eyes.
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May 6, 2014 05:02
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The vitriol against the bush years amongst the nation's conservatives was and is vastly different than those felt by progressives. For instance, the Vote to invade Iraq - we just had a poster declare that Joe Biden's entire liberal cred is in dispute based on his vote to invade Iraq. For a conservative candidate, Iraq is so far out of the news cycle now that we can already start to see it being re-cast as a noble, but flawed effort, much like popular culture has done with the Vietnam war. It would be much easier for a conservative candidate to explain to his constituency why she voted to invade Iraq than it would for a liberal candidate. I believe conservative candidates would be far, far less likely to hold his family against him. Jeb bush is the strongest horse in the race, but that's not saying much. Half the field are looney tunes or has-beens. Without a serious flub he'll knock out the primaries easy. Whoever pointed out that Hilary would get Obama's support - That is something I had overlooked, thanks for pointing that out. I had read that one of the strengths of the Obama's 2012 effort is that they left a lot of the apparatus in place that got him elected in the first place. That could give hillary a huge boost -but conservative vitriol is incredibly powerful and it's been getting stored up for the last eight years. Edit: Another thing that really gets my goat - Calling President Bush dumb. Almost every first hand account I've read of him cast him as surprisingly well read and intelligent, he was just a lovely orator. If George W. Bush had been dumb Iraq never could have happened. He was always one step ahead of everyone and no one in eight years was able to stop his agenda in any meaningful way.
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May 6, 2014 05:11
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The thing is G.W. wasn't dumb, I mean a lot of things he did were "dumb" (re: evil), but he wasn't actually a total rube. That affect made him go from the gently caress up son of a dynasty to president of the United States and even in our fallen age that's still not an easy thing to do. People would underestimate him a lot and it cost the country.
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May 6, 2014 05:12
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Eight years might as well be a million for the average voter. Any disappointments they had with W's administration are going to be a lot duller and more distant than ones they had with Obama's, of which Hillary shares a political party and nearly-identical platform. I think you guys are really overselling the "another Bush in the White House!" angle and it's only going to sound scary to the people who already voted against the past two Bushes in the White House.
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May 6, 2014 05:32
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Berke Negri posted:The thing is G.W. wasn't dumb, I mean a lot of things he did were "dumb" (re: evil), but he wasn't actually a total rube. That affect made him go from the gently caress up son of a dynasty to president of the United States and even in our fallen age that's still not an easy thing to do. People would underestimate him a lot and it cost the country. Paging SedanChair.
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May 6, 2014 05:35
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AndNowMax posted:If JEB runs he's going to be billed as "like W except smart!!" Seems like a great way to lose the Republican Primary.
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May 6, 2014 05:56
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Berke Negri posted:The thing is G.W. wasn't dumb, I mean a lot of things he did were "dumb" (re: evil), but he wasn't actually a total rube. That affect made him go from the gently caress up son of a dynasty to president of the United States and even in our fallen age that's still not an easy thing to do. People would underestimate him a lot and it cost the country. That seems to be largely true. The Dumb Rube was an act he learned to succeed in Texas that also worked in national politics. If you look at some of his early debates he's extremely sharp and quick-witted, with a strong command of facts. He learned real fast that being a sharp-tongued Yalie gets you nowhere in Texas, hence he got some coaching on how to act dumb.
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May 6, 2014 06:07
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Badger of Basra posted:Paging SedanChair. My narrative's prevailing. 
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May 6, 2014 06:15
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Deteriorata posted:That seems to be largely true. The Dumb Rube was an act he learned to succeed in Texas that also worked in national politics. If you look at some of his early debates he's extremely sharp and quick-witted, with a strong command of facts. I'm going to take the other side of this coin, that W's (legacy) Ivy League education offered him the opportunity to play smart in the business world. Remember that he was the first MBA President?
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May 6, 2014 06:57
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Nixon wasnt particularly intellectually curious but that didnt stop him from being brilliant in his own way (not in any way that really did anyone good, bit still.)
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May 6, 2014 07:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOn1AgLJDi4 Sharp and in command of the facts. Bush lack any intellectual curiosity or rigour whatsoever, which is largely indistinguishable from being actually stupid.
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May 6, 2014 07:05
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OAquinas posted:Isn't that the upcoming state senator from Tennessee?
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May 6, 2014 07:12
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Bush was very intelligent and competitive. Those are great qualities to have when running for president, not so great for actually being the president though. On the other hand, he was very incurious and lazy when it came to actual policy, and had a total inability to reflect critically on himself in any serious sense. He also liked surrounding himself with "strong decision makers" who were ideologically motivated but arrogant, ignorant, or just straight-up incompetent. His reaction towards his father's defeat in 1992 was basically an angry and dismissive "Stupid fuckers don't know what's good for them" attitude. He's a person who grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth and has always had a golden parachute no matter how badly he hosed up. This upbringing can create some very confident people but it generally does not tend to create strong critical thinkers or skeptical analysts.
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May 6, 2014 09:05
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Doctor Spaceman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOn1AgLJDi4 Now answer all the questions he couldn't, without Wikipedia.
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May 6, 2014 11:14
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Berke Negri posted:Nixon wasnt particularly intellectually curious Yes, he was. The man devoured books, quoted political philosophy, and loved pointing out that he was the best educated candidate in the Republican primary in 1968.
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May 6, 2014 11:29
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All it will take to rehabilitate the bush name among Republicans is JEB(!) giving a "muh brother" schtick somewhere and people will treat W as the modern Washington out of sheer spite.
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May 6, 2014 12:19
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SedanChair posted:Now answer all the questions he couldn't, without Wikipedia. You've got me, I can't. I guess I'm not fit to be President of the United States.
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May 6, 2014 12:32
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SedanChair posted:Now answer all the questions he couldn't, without Wikipedia. That was 15 years ago
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May 6, 2014 12:40
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menino posted:That was 15 years ago Yes exactly? Hence my challenge. It's easy to pretend that you should remember the head of state of every country when you've got the Guide. Doctor Spaceman posted:You've got me, I can't. I guess I'm not fit to be President of the United States. So you're dumber than Bush?
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May 6, 2014 13:53
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SedanChair posted:Yes exactly? Hence my challenge. It's easy to pretend that you should remember the head of state of every country when you've got the Guide. That was 15 years ago. You can't compare current events knowledge when the events are no longer current. You picked the wrong snippet to get back on your hobby horse about.
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May 6, 2014 14:05
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SedanChair posted:So you're dumber than Bush? I want my politicians to know more about world affairs than I do, just like I hope my doctor knows more about anatomy than I do.
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May 6, 2014 14:09
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Standards don't exist in sedanchair's world. If they did he'd try a bit harder with the trolling.
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May 6, 2014 14:18
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So does this guy have any national political aspirations? quote:Gov. John Kitzhaber may have helped save a woman’s life Monday, performing CPR on her until paramedics arrived, his chief spokeswoman confirmed. Is he any good as a Governor, beyond being able to give CPR?
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May 6, 2014 14:20
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menino posted:That was 15 years ago. You can't compare current events knowledge when the events are no longer current. You picked the wrong snippet to get back on your hobby horse about. I will accept the current answers to those questions.
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May 6, 2014 14:23
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SedanChair posted:Now answer all the questions he couldn't, without Wikipedia. The Pakistani general was Pervez Musharraf. Hey look I got both names. But I'm also not running for or holding the office of goddamned President of the United States
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May 6, 2014 14:43
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Doctor Spaceman posted:If the average person on the street doesn't know who the president of Pakistan is then it's not a big deal. If a Presidential candidate doesn't, then it's a different matter. Presidential candidates should at least know who's in charge of every G20 country, plus who's in charge of their economies (treasurer/minister of finance/etc).
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May 6, 2014 14:58
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Doctor Spaceman posted:If the average person on the street doesn't know who the president of Pakistan is then it's not a big deal. If a Presidential candidate doesn't, then it's a different matter. What about knowing the President of Uzbeki-beki-beki-stan-stan?
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May 6, 2014 15:09
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Badger of Basra posted:Paging SedanChair. W. Bush had a nose for politics but was pretty dumb for a president. Almost all of the "he was actually pretty smart" stories that argue on more than a youtube clip are from dummies and/or contrarians and/or people with obvious motivations. We watched the man try to think on his feet for 8 years, and it was frequently embarrassing. This isn't that complicated.
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May 6, 2014 15:12
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It doesn't matter how smart Bush may or may not have been, he was probably the closest thing this country has had to a puppet president since Harding.
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May 6, 2014 15:40
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If Jeb ran comedy shows would immediately start making a barrage of "new Bush is as dumb as the last Bush" jokes.
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May 6, 2014 15:54
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Taerkar posted:It doesn't matter how smart Bush may or may not have been, he was probably the closest thing this country has had to a puppet president since Harding. That is a common criticism of his presidency, and it's valid. A lot of his retinue were his dad's buddies. His cabinet was scary.
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May 6, 2014 16:06
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ShutteredIn posted:If Jeb ran comedy shows would immediately start making a barrage of "new Bush is as dumb as the last Bush" jokes. He isn't blessed with having been born with a silver foot in his mouth. JEB(!) may be evil in all the unique ways that only a conservative can (one of his first campaigns for FL Gov, in the mid 90s, had him giving a  -like talk about work as rehabilitation for criminals a la Angola), but there is no way in hell he can be seen as being as dumb as or dumber than his brother. He's simply too well spoken by far. Policywise he's the hidden knife to his contemporaries' bared swords. If he survives the primary (a longshot based on his less-lovely qualities being a liability for the conservative base) he'll be a tough candidate to beat simply by coming across sane. That's going to be played as a breath of fresh air or a newly sober abusive spouse. Oh, he talks pretty, maybe we can try electing a conservative again...
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May 6, 2014 16:17
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Mitt Romney posted:I agree. Hillary hasn't proven she can run anything with effectiveness. Her previous campaign was a disaster if you consider their mistakes. It wouldn't surprise me if she brought back on a lot of those same idiots to her 2016 campaign too. Clinton just got done in Jan 2013 paying off her campaign debt to Mark Penn. Their 2008 campaign didn't even realize that delegates were allocated proportionally at some points. Mark Penn has been pretty well banished from any role in the campaign, and Clinton has already courted several people from the Obama campaign world. Just the addition of Jeremy Bird Mitch Stewart alone from OFA will be huge in bringing their substantial resources to bear, which will make it difficult this time for any would-be upsetter to out-organize her in the Democratic primary, let alone the effect on the general election. For everything that causes some posters to wring their hands about Clinton's electability (which seems to come from the same delusional mental plane as "Elizabeth Warren 2016"), she has been an important national Democratic figure for over 20 years. Despite being dragged down by some incompetent staff members and dealing with one of the best primary campaigns in modern times, she gave the Obama campaign a significant primary challenge in 2008. Now, with likely the full force of the Democratic party by her side, I see no reason to believe she won't be a formidable foe for anyone on the Republican bench. Democrazy fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 16:21
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FAUXTON posted:He isn't blessed with having been born with a silver foot in his mouth. JEB(!) may be evil in all the unique ways that only a conservative can (one of his first campaigns for FL Gov, in the mid 90s, had him giving a Democrats/liberals have this annoying tic of building up their potential opponents and panicking about them, only to have them evaporate like spilled water on a hot summer day. Remember when post-2008 Sarah Palin was the future of the Republican party that we took lightly at our peril? Remember when Rick Perry was this unstoppable political juggernaut who was probably going to crush Obama in 2012? Remember when Chris Christie was the golden boy for 2016?
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May 6, 2014 16:28
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radical meme posted:Is he any good as a Governor, beyond being able to give CPR? Kitzhaber is a fairly good governor, and he has a lot of experience since this is his third non-consecutive term. At first he had a reputation for being something of a liberal firebrand, but that got beaten out of him after several fights with out of state conservatives. Since regaining the governorship, Kitzhaber has become more focused on coalition-building (and too conciliatory, in my opinion) and has built a lot of ties with the Oregon business community. Still, he's proven to be a fairly effective governor of a state that is more purple than blue. That said, Oregon is a small state with relatively little money and few electoral votes, and Kitzhaber has little national presence or party connections.
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May 6, 2014 16:39
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Hillary is getting the gang back together. Oh dear.
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May 6, 2014 16:44
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SedanChair posted:Now answer all the questions he couldn't, without Wikipedia. The only one I knew was Musharraf, which I could give Bush a pass on if that quiz was from before 9/11. e: it was but it was also right after he seized power so that's not too great on Bush's part.
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May 6, 2014 16:49
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Full Battle Rattle posted:That is a common criticism of his presidency, and it's valid. A lot of his retinue were his dad's buddies. Or Nixon-era legacies, which is hardly better.
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May 6, 2014 16:54
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