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TraderStav posted:When they want people to leave but don't went to lay to them off The correct answer. In any case OP, this is them informing you that it's time for you to move on. I suggest you do so.
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Feb 4, 2024 16:58
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Boris Galerkin posted:Thanks for the info. By contractor you mean 1099? Can they do this for W2 is what I’m wanting to know. We were considered W2. By contractor I mean we were on the payroll of a company that had a contract to calibrate a bunch of stuff at the air force base we were near. We worked on base but were not considered government employees and did not enjoy the same benefits
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Feb 4, 2024 17:05
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I’m not there anymore but the pay cuts are across the board (execs getting 20% cuts, everyone else 10). They don’t do layoffs and do this instead it seems as a way to prune people of course the issue being the people with the most transferable skills are probably the ones to depart. After Covid cuts ended they did a top up to restore lost pay but it crushed morale for a bit. A lot of people left after that myself included. People who refused the cuts were essentially told they’d forgo any future promotions or raises.
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Feb 4, 2024 17:24
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Boris Galerkin posted:Thanks for the info. By contractor you mean 1099? Can they do this for W2 is what I’m wanting to know. Absolutely 100% they can for W2s, and often in hilariously vile fashion. It may become constructive dismissal depending on the state, but unless you have an actual, real contract (and I don't mean standard employment contract, etc etc, I mean union contract or 1099 "you are paying me $X for this period of work on this project"), the employer holds approximately all the cards on what your salary is. Whether they will or not is, as Motronic called out, a separate calculus by the company. One of my ex-employers changed my role twice while I was with them. The first one was literally my first week of work there, right after I relocated and was still under relocation penalty contract. Those didn't get voided in the state if the company hosed with your compensation. The second was them deciding that as part of the reorganization, they were changing the job titles for my site and giving us all much lower titles (but the same pay). By that time I was well and truly into the job hunt and on my way out, so I declined the change and kept right on using the title I could prove I was hired for / still had my old hiring letters. "Titles don't matter" isn't entirely true. They shouldn't matter, but there are a few tiers that have meanings within fields. Telling your staff that they are no longer "Managers" but "Supervisors" or telling your Principal Scientists that they are now "Scientists" are both cases where that title meant a lot for leverage outside the company itself.
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Feb 4, 2024 17:32
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Yeah giving you a demotion-in-title is a flagrant and kind of sad attempt to make it harder for people to leave. And also dumb; it just motivates the good people to leave ASAP, while the deadweight people probably weren't going anywhere anyway.
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Feb 4, 2024 19:00
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Motronic posted:You almost certainly have signed a conctract that is incredibly one sided. Most often it's part of your starting paperwork and it basically says that for the due consideration of your salary you agree to this NDA (appendix 1), that non-compete (appendix 2) and to be bound by the company handbook (appendix 3) which may be revised at any time. NDA's and Non-competes can't be buried and must be something else entirely, not just part of a "You agree to all of this". But as said, yes you can slash salary, it's part of at-will. You can also quit due to this (or any reason) with as much or as little notice as you want. Constructive dismissal usually kicks in at 15% cut, so that depends on if a company wants to fight it if you claim unemployement. Boris Galerkin posted:Otherwise why don’t all companies do this? I’ve heard of companies giving signing/starting bonuses. I’ve never heard of companies giving an introductory salary rate that later drops. If there’s truly nothing preventing a company from cutting your salary by 10% why don’t every company just cut by 10% after the first month? If everyone’s doing it then where is everyone going to jump ship to? But nobody is doing this, that I’m aware of. Because at-will also means the labor market is way more fluid. Unemployement in the US is in the 3%-4% range. If a company had a reputation for doing this they'd lose people before they became useful and most people would be looking for an exit even if they weren't a target for this kind of thing. If they did this kind of thing targeted they can definitely be a target themselves for a law suit.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:18
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Eric the Mauve posted:The correct answer. OP said it was ex-ex employer, so my guess is anyone worth anything has long since left, which is why they are reduced to doing these extremely short-view steps to try and strip the copper from the walls. This is a drain circling move.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:19
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Lockback posted:NDA's and Non-competes can't be buried and must be something else entirely, not just part of a "You agree to all of this". If you are sayiong they can't be a part of a package then your opinion is in direct conflict with multiple lawyers in California employment law practices that service billion dollar companies, but okay.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:21
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Motronic posted:If you are sayiong they can't be a part of a package then your opinion is in direct conflict with multiple lawyers in California employment law practices that service billion dollar companies, but okay. No they can be part of a package (which is why I didn't say that) but it sounded like you were saying they can be buried amongst other things where you sign once and it covers an NDA/Non-Compete/Etc. These need to be separate things. In Californiia in particular SB-699 limits it so those kinds of non-competes are immediately void.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:26
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah giving you a demotion-in-title is a flagrant and kind of sad attempt to make it harder for people to leave. And also dumb; it just motivates the good people to leave ASAP, while the deadweight people probably weren't going anywhere anyway. Yeah I went with "No, I'm still Principal Scientist. That's the offer on my letter and the job title I have in all my YE review papers." Never did update my resume or history to show their demoted title, and yes, I headed for the hills. I was on my way out anyway, but it certainly did nothing to help their case.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:08
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Eric the Mauve posted:I'm just going to go right ahead and admit that the "Refer to laid-off employees as 'lazy' in email to remaining employees" checkbox is the sole thing in there that assures me that image is a work. For me, it was "prioritize pro-union employees" not being the top priority 
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Feb 5, 2024 13:33
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I’m at a large tech company where we don’t use titles internally (there is no field for title in our internal HR system) and while I applaud the sentiment, the reality is very confusing. So to manage the confusion, whenever we reorg (approx every 2-3 quarters), HR sends out an email announcing all the senior leaders’…new titles. Since they only send that email to people reporting to those particular leaders, in actuality you have to rely on personal contacts or being on the distribution list for the email announcing any org changes to know what the hell anyone does. One dude was reportedly GM for a major vertical, moved to another team, and nobody outside his direct reports and new team knew for like 3 months.
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Feb 6, 2024 05:03
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m at a large tech company where we don’t use titles internally (there is no field for title in our internal HR system) and while I applaud the sentiment, the reality is very confusing. So to manage the confusion, whenever we reorg (approx every 2-3 quarters), HR sends out an email announcing all the senior leaders’…new titles. This seems wide open for some Michael J Fox "Secret of My Success" style shenanigans 
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Feb 6, 2024 05:40
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m at a large tech company where we don’t use titles internally (there is no field for title in our internal HR system) and while I applaud the sentiment, the reality is very confusing. So to manage the confusion, whenever we reorg (approx every 2-3 quarters), HR sends out an email announcing all the senior leaders’…new titles. We have a not totally dissimilar thing where something like "Manager" or "Director" can had widely varying clout depending on the business unit someone is a part of. We leverage the Microsoft environment Manager attribute to keep everything straight. If you tell Office 365 or Azure or whatever who everyone reports to, you can get an entire automated org chart through hovering over their name in Teams or Outlook to give you the actual lay of the land. It's neat.
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Feb 6, 2024 06:45
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Sometimes I get bored at work and just poke around the org chart in teams like this. Just click a name and start clicking up and down the chain. I’ve managed to find two people listed as regular engineers who appear to have nobody above or below them and was wondering how that happens.
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Feb 6, 2024 06:49
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Silly Newbie posted:We have a not totally dissimilar thing where something like "Manager" or "Director" can had widely varying clout depending on the business unit someone is a part of. We leverage the Microsoft environment Manager attribute to keep everything straight. If you tell Office 365 or Azure or whatever who everyone reports to, you can get an entire automated org chart through hovering over their name in Teams or Outlook to give you the actual lay of the land. It's neat. Surprisingly, Slack has something similar as well. You can see the whole org chart, pictures, profile. I poke around in it occasionally.
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Feb 6, 2024 06:53
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There are people on the IC track in my company with like 15 direct reports, it's wild. Some of them the "manager" is a lower title than several of the people they are managing!
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Feb 6, 2024 07:03
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priznat posted:There are people on the IC track in my company with like 15 direct reports, it's wild. lol that's exactly why I got unexpectedly title only promoted. We have several different "tracks", like manager is different to IC, and these all have numeric levels, but the levels in each track don't correspond to each other, have similar names or even have the same number of levels so it's extremely difficult to work out who is actually senior to who across areas. I think this is actually why the other title system has been made more obvious and applied to everyone rather than just 30% of people, but it's still been a mess even though I'm a direct beneficiary.
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Feb 6, 2024 10:46
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priznat posted:Some of them the "manager" is a lower title than several of the people they are managing! Working in tech, yada yada, but I never understrood the problem with that. A principal/IC5 or distinguised/IC7 engineer that works on a team shouldn't have to report to a director or VP because that team is being run by an M2/Sr. Manager.
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Feb 6, 2024 15:15
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My biggest success story as a manager was when I was assigned a "genius problem child" type who was 2 entire tiers above me. My first meeting I said "You outrank me, you are more important than me, and you make more money than me. My goal is to clear obstacles and keep you focused on the goal" and we ended up having a great run that gave us both a upward career trajectory (which ended up me pissing off other managers and getting laid off, but that ended up a good move for me).
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Feb 6, 2024 16:33
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I have a gently caress ton of leftover seafood risotto in my fridge at home from a party. It's so good I don't want a single bite to be wasted. I, however, am not a monster, and didn't bring it to work so I wouldn't be microwaving fish. Someone I don't recognize from another department is currently in our break room, microwaving fish.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:43
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Ebenezer scrooge moment there, seeing what could have been.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:52
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Motronic posted:Working in tech, yada yada, but I never understrood the problem with that. A principal/IC5 or distinguised/IC7 engineer that works on a team shouldn't have to report to a director or VP because that team is being run by an M2/Sr. Manager. Yah I suppose I would not raise an eyebrow if it was a higher IC level being managed by a lower comparable manager level. In a few cases the managers just don’t want to give up their IC title I guess. I’m not sure if there is a different pay band (but I would have thought the manager track would make a little more at the same level). Hey if it works it works.
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Feb 6, 2024 19:19
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Bajaha posted:Ebenezer scrooge moment there, seeing what could have been. Should have tried to wrap whoever microwaved fish in chains and drag them to hell too
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Feb 6, 2024 21:18
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Volmarias posted:Should have tried to wrap whoever microwaved fish in chains and drag them to hell too They know exactly what they're doing. Follow them to their unit and microwave the risotto in their kitchen tomorrow.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:12
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You have to send them a message. Put the risotto in their microwave, set it to 10 minutes, and walk away.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:24
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Lockback posted:My biggest success story as a manager was when I was assigned a "genius problem child" type who was 2 entire tiers above me. My first meeting I said "You outrank me, you are more important than me, and you make more money than me. My goal is to clear obstacles and keep you focused on the goal" and we ended up having a great run that gave us both a upward career trajectory (which ended up me pissing off other managers and getting laid off, but that ended up a good move for me). Sounds like you did an amazing sales job tbh. Dumping the idea that because you’re managing, you have to be the most important person in the room is insanely useful.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:46
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Yep thats a pretty good approach. Going the other way, I had someone advise me that when you get a new boss you should do a little "hey I'm here to make you look good, I'm on your team, always let me know what you need, we're in this together" pep talk, lol. It sounds cheesy, but I think it can help set expectations. Maybe for more inexperienced managers, but I think anyone coming into a new position is trying to feel out who is with them and who might be a problem. Either you'll be put in the "team player" bucket or the "kiss rear end" one, but prolly not "angry backstabber".
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Feb 7, 2024 02:24
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I've ended up in the "cynical frontstabber" bucket with my new manager and it's great.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:51
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Beefeater1980 posted:Sounds like you did an amazing sales job tbh. Dumping the idea that because you’re managing, you have to be the most important person in the room is insanely useful. Yeah, that's just an excellent approach and I would say just generally "you're a good manager" stuff. Baddog posted:Going the other way, I had someone advise me that when you get a new boss you should do a little "hey I'm here to make you look good, I'm on your team, always let me know what you need, we're in this together" pep talk, lol. It sounds cheesy, but I think it can help set expectations. Yeah, if you don't have any other options that's a great way to set the expectation of being the biggest doormat they just inherited unless you're real careful with phrasing/good at this. Respect is earned and if you don't have someone doing the servant leadership thing then youre boss is trash and it probably doesn't matter whch technique you use to kiss their rear end. As I've said before, in every management position I've had my job was to get resrources for my reports so they could do their jobs. And to manage up to keep the execs out of their way while they do it. Had this always workd? Hell no. That's when you have to do the distasteful "firing people" thing because I ain't got not time to micromanage. Hire a good team, trust them to be the domain experts you hired them to be. If someone doesn't work out do the needful. Motronic fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 03:35
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What percentage of internal transfers are just dumpster fires managers are trying to make someone else’s problem without having to fire them? We have interviewed a few and whewwwww boy.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:21
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priznat posted:What percentage of internal transfers are just dumpster fires managers are trying to make someone else’s problem without having to fire them? We have interviewed a few and whewwwww boy. About 40% e: Wait you mean transfers that actually happen or just attempted transfers that don't go anywhere after the interview process? If it's the latter then more like 75%. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 04:25
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Eric the Mauve posted:About 40% Yeah this sounds about right.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:29
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Eric the Mauve posted:About 40% Yeah the total number, 75% seems about right. We did hire one (I had not interviewed them) and I don’t know how that will go. I interviewed 3 and they were all hard nos.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:31
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Silly Newbie posted:We have a not totally dissimilar thing where something like "Manager" or "Director" can had widely varying clout depending on the business unit someone is a part of. We leverage the Microsoft environment Manager attribute to keep everything straight. If you tell Office 365 or Azure or whatever who everyone reports to, you can get an entire automated org chart through hovering over their name in Teams or Outlook to give you the actual lay of the land. It's neat. org charts in this firm are strictly verboten and in fact when we're required to provide them in proposals it becomes a wonderful charade of unnamed people think it has something to do with the LLP nature of things but it really does also make it hard to find who the hell does anything apart from word of mouth e:fb lol at the post directly above this one i missed
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Feb 7, 2024 04:50
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I like that consulting seems to have pretty standard titles across firms, at least up to the partner / executive level, at which point it gets wonky. Though I do a fair bit of business dev and have to keep telling people on our team that our internal titles don’t mean anything to our clients and to keep intros focused on why we’re there not what our title is.
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Feb 7, 2024 05:11
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priznat posted:Yeah the total number, 75% seems about right. We did hire one (I had not interviewed them) and I don’t know how that will go. I interviewed 3 and they were all hard nos. Hmm . . . is this only asking about "push" transfers (e.g. an unsolicited "Hey I have a dude who [insert bullshit here], do you have an opening?") or also people applying internally? If it also includes the latter, I'd be somewhat surprised because every MegaCorp I've worked for strongly encourages applying internally.
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Feb 7, 2024 09:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:About 40% Yeah. Market for lemons
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Feb 7, 2024 11:49
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Jordan7hm posted:I like that consulting seems to have pretty standard titles across firms, at least up to the partner / executive level, at which point it gets wonky.
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Feb 7, 2024 11:55
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I've just started saying "I'm part of engineering leadership" in those meetings and I feel like the lack of clarity is working as a power move.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:21
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