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Boris Galerkin posted:I wanna know what’s up with people who take meeting calls in the god drat toilet. Like I’ll walk in to take a piss and someone is in the stall just talking business. Someone just yesterday started a Teams call with me with no other message or invite or anything and I was in the bathroom and was very tempted to answer it as punishment for them.
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Feb 9, 2024 20:48
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I'm supposed to start a new production campaign on Monday. It is Friday. The QA department responsible for doing line clearances / area release to allow production sent one of the two trained QA associates to Shanghai for the month and the other to a full-week off-site training. We're still trying to sort out the issue with expiring material with nebulous expiry dates from earlier. The batch record is not yet approved, because the QA team is gone and can't do approvals. Two of the systems can't be returned to service post-maintenance because QA is gone. Oh, and the project team just dropped a new desiccant requirement on me as of Thursday night, and different facility temperature requirements and humidity requirements that require I retool the air handlers and cycle poo poo for a good long time, plus do a temporary change to the facility setpoints and put in extra Temp/RH monitoring. Oh right... and for some reason, the central inventory doesn't stock desiccant packets. They just order them through the R&D supply portal... which I can't use, because I'm GMP production, not R&D. Why can't I? Because some fucker wrote a global quality standard that says GMP activities may only use SAP-released materials and may not order anything from the R&D supply portal. It's likely meant to be specific to things like actual product-impact raw materials (no ordering unqualified/untested materials) instead of poo poo like packaging supplies, but that's not what they wrote soooooo.... My team is flipping the gently caress out right now and are stressed to high hell. The problem we're having isn't even that it's not our fault and we'll be blamed anyway (we might be), but that one of the two potential heirs to the throne in the game of department heads is very pro-outsource. In spite of sitting in an office right next to us and talking to us all day every day, she has never sent a project to our own facility to produce. She sends them all to outsource facilities in China, because "they never have delays." They can make anything happen, because they have hundreds to thousands of employees and a full 24/7/365 work system. They're also not bound to the same rules that we are, because all that poo poo people in the industry say about how external suppliers are supposed to follow your internal quality requirements is literally just lip-service. Everyone in here knows that, and the bigger the external, the less they'll follow your rules. Safety, as an example - our previous (now dead) director often complained about the safety rules we had to follow for product exposure because [chinese contract firm] literally just didn't follow them and were so much faster. So now she's going to point at the network failures in QA and R&D, etc, and say that it's yet another reason not to use internal production, since we're just not flexible enough (by the design of our own company's rules). Frustrating, but just par for the course. Ten years ago people said the same thing but "Bend Oregon" was the boogeyman. Now that Bend got bought out by Thermo-Fisher and went to crap, and everyone sends their stuff to a variety of Chinese labs now and we have the same stories. Oh well.
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Feb 9, 2024 21:08
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Can confirm re: industry in China in general. If you go with a known producer and don't cheap out then you'll typically get exactly what you asked for, but your control over the process is a polite fiction, and if you want *actual* control to levels typically acceptable to stuff like western drug authorities then you'll need to either set up and supervise your own Chinese subsidiary or pay so much that it's not worth it. Maybe both! Industry here is extremely effective, but not exactly about crossing T's / dotting I's, which is great for stuff like consumer electronics (which don't fundamentally matter) or precursors (which can be tested), but which has the potential to go very wrong for things like pharma. A couple of stories I heard, it wasn't so much attempts to cheat, as just shortcuts that the producer thought wouldn't matter because they weren't clear on the exact processes / uses it would be put to.
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Feb 10, 2024 10:06
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Like any board room decision outsourcing manufacturing to china is a short term solution to problems that have been caused by previous short term solutions, and causes more problems. We have been working with a potential major supplier in china for a couple of years with the idea that they will produce product for us on a brand new plant that they have only just now completed. They have now turned round and said that the new plant is at capacity producing product for the Chinese market, if we want them to produce for us we need to supply an order book that justifies them building another plant. Motherfucker if we could fill a whole plant with this product we would build it ourselves! All that knowledge transfer we did to get that plant up and running and product design we did so that they could produce product good enough for our market? Gone like leaves in the wind. Of course board room were told that this would happen 2 years ago, and said that they trusted the Chinese manufacturer...
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Feb 10, 2024 14:03
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Outsourcing manufacturing to China is about avoiding the costs of safety compliance and employing Americans. Some of which is pure red tape, but some of which is, y'know, actually being safe and paying people half-reasonably. "Polite fiction" is exactly the right phrase. The US companies know what they're doing when they email over the list of safety rules and etc. They know the Chinese company will say "oh yes, of course we will definitely do all of this" and then immediately shitcan it and never think about it again. If it ever gets them in hot water with US authorities they then say "oh no we told our manufacturer they had to follow these rules, they said they would, look here's the proof, we had no idea"
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Feb 10, 2024 14:33
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Atopian posted:Industry here is extremely effective, but not exactly about crossing T's / dotting I's, which is great for stuff like consumer electronics (which don't fundamentally matter) or precursors (which can be tested), but which has the potential to go very wrong for things like pharma. Some years ago a bunch of bloggers started posting about 差不多 (cha bu duo) culture in China. Meaning, it’s good enough and gets the job done. Unless it doesn’t, but like you said, they would have had no idea why you needed it done specifically a certain way, nor would they have cared, because they got the job done.
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Feb 10, 2024 14:42
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Boris Galerkin posted:Some years ago a bunch of bloggers started posting about 差不多 (cha bu duo) culture in China. Meaning, it’s good enough and gets the job done. Unless it doesn’t, but like you said, they would have had no idea why you needed it done specifically a certain way, nor would they have cared, because they got the job done. Right, but a key thing that people get wrong about that phrase/concept is that it's not negative, it has mildly positive connotations. As in, someone managed to achieve the necessary results using less time/resources/etc. The key lies in clearly and precisely defining the results you require, while making it clear that you can both detect when they are not provided, and then do something with that knowledge. An overly simplistic but effective way to explain it is like a lazy literal genie. You can get wonders at low cost and incredibly quickly, but you need to be very careful what you ask for.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:22
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CancerCakes posted:Of course board room were told that this would happen 2 years ago, and said that they trusted the Chinese manufacturer... Yep! A willingness to help set up a plant/line without clear contractual terms regarding what will be done with it, and specifying the compensation to be made if this does not happen, is viewed like a resource to be exploited. If they didn't do it, another company would.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:26
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As a college professor of mine would frequently say, “good enough for government work!”
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Feb 10, 2024 15:26
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Cael posted:As a college professor of mine would frequently say, “good enough for government work!” Which is a funny phrase to me because I have never had my work more scrutinised and subject to regulation in two decades of working life than when I worked for the government.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:30
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CancerCakes posted:All that knowledge transfer we did to get that plant up and running and product design we did so that they could produce product good enough for our market? Gone like leaves in the wind. It's not gone at all. It's bog standard industrial sabotage and I've seen it happen repeatedly with chinese manufacture. The people on your side just weren't wise to it and wenmt along with the grift anbd gave a free set of courses on how to make the product you wanted them to make which they will do, but now they're your competition instead of manufacturing partner. How are people still falling for this? It's been going on for literal decades. They almost got one of my companies doing largely this over 15 years ago. Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 16:27
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Cael posted:As a college professor of mine would frequently say, “good enough for government work!” I'm fedgov and I want to suplex every loving boomer who drops this line during a discussion, twice a week or so. It's only ever ancient chuds who think it's funny. Motronic posted:How are people still falling for this? It's been going on for literal decades. They almost got one of my companies doing largely this over 15 years ago. I've got a really good feeling about the football Lucy is holding for me, it was such a low price this time!
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Feb 10, 2024 17:17
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I don’t think it was this thread, but this book came up in another during a discussion about outsourcing manufacturing to china. https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077 It reads a bit like the guy pitching himself as a consultant for your company to prevent these problems, but it was still a fun read.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:24
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Yesterday I tried to close an excel workbook and got the following message:code:ugh tell me about it.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:44
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Motronic, the extra letter n’s that your autocorrect is apparently missing or inserting has been driving me nuts for pages
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Feb 10, 2024 20:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:Outsourcing manufacturing to China is about avoiding the costs of safety compliance and employing Americans. Some of which is pure red tape, but some of which is, y'know, actually being safe and paying people half-reasonably. Yep, and to be clear re: "Polite fiction," I'm not trying to apply that just to Chinese outsources. On-shore and European outsources (sometimes you actually do that for tax purposes or EU market-access regulations) also play the same game. All of it is a sales pamphlet, basically, and they'll definitely follow (most of) the rules when your auditors come through. The auditors almost certainly know, though, that they're just weeding out the suppliers too dumb or uncaring to even play game of Polite Fiction. (I love that phrase; gonna use it now.) After you leave? OK, ten batches to clear today before (other company)'s stuff arrives at the dock. Get that stuff out the door, whatever it takes folks. It's hard to compete against that when QA and internal auditors will gladly shove the rulebook up my rear end but knowingly turn a blind eye to everything else. That's even before we get to stuff like being denied adequate staffing or refused OT requests for my operators during critical weeks, while the outsource lab is already staffed for 24/7/365 except for around Lunar New Year and Golden Week, and even then for the right $$$ they'll make it happen. Frankly, it'd be a bit refreshing if when I call out management on this and ask them how I'm supposed to be competitive, they'd actually admit that I'm not instead of giving some five minute speech about "finding efficiencies." Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 21:03
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Just ask them to admit you're not supposed to instead of asking them how your'e supposed to compete. You'll get fired but it'll be satisfying!
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Feb 10, 2024 22:26
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Cacafuego posted:Motronic, the extra letter n’s that your autocorrect is apparently missing or inserting has been driving me nuts for pages lol sorry, it's my crappy new keyboard - I didn't realize it was quite that bad. I also thought I would get used to it and I'm just not. It's a mechanical with no-name switches that activate when you barely touch a key which I bought because they were out of the one with the cherry reds. And still are.
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Feb 10, 2024 22:52
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Embrace the One True Keyboard, crafted by the gods themselves and descended from the heavens, the Model M. Announce your presence with authority.
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Feb 11, 2024 00:44
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Eric the Mauve posted:Embrace the One True Keyboard, crafted by the gods themselves and descended from the heavens, the Model M. Announce your presence with authority. I was trying to buy the ersazt version of that, a mechanical with good switches. I did not get that. But you know exactly what I'm going for and used to typing on. I have a Das Keyboard on my other machine. That's nice. Probably (definitely) overpriced. But I was looking for something nic-er but cheap enough to be in my barn/woprkshop after I broke the last chicklet one. It's just gonna get coverd in filth and typed on with filthy hands.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:01
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Corporate Megathread: You cannot quit excel.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:07
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I have had multiple directors and VPs over the years proclaim that some process, system or software would greatly reduce the use of excel. Almost none have bared fruit. Excel is eternal. It is like Judge Holden, it will never die.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:16
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I've got a CODE WASD with MX Clears and O-rings on the keys at work and it's great to type on and not particularly loud. It also doesn't look like a gamer keyboard like a lot of mechanicals do. It has plain black keys with adjustable back lightening so it doesn't particularly stick out. Would recommend!
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Feb 11, 2024 01:18
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Yesterday I tried to close an excel workbook and got the following message: 
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Feb 11, 2024 01:40
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I use the wasd code with clears at home and I'm pretty happy with it, though given the choice I'd get browns instead of clear next time. At work I have this cooler master keyboard with browns because at the time I bought it, it the cheapest mechanical keyboard I could find and I have nothing but good things to say about it. It's served me well for about 8 years but it's starting to drop key presses and I think it's about time I replaced it. Because we hot desk, every day I unplug it and chuck it into a drawer so it's survived quite a lot of abuse. Maybe I'll splurge on something nice to replace it but it feels like a waste for something I only use twice a week now.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:41
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Motronic posted:I was trying to buy the ersazt version of that, a mechanical with good switches. I did not get that. But you know exactly what I'm going for and used to typing on. If you don't think you can get away with an actual Unicomp, here you go: https://www.amazon.com/TECWARE-Mechanical-Keyboard-Switches-Excellent/dp/B076YHBQYJ Surprisingly solid build for the price of a midrange rubber dome. The only thing that sucks about them are the keycaps, which are cheap and easy to replace. (The Unicomp is like $120 now but is totally indestructible and you can do whatever you want to it, your heirs will inherit it when you die. Unfortunately if you work around other people that might happen a lot sooner than you intended because of the racket the buckling springs make.)
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Feb 11, 2024 02:03
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Eric the Mauve posted:If you don't think you can get away with an actual Unicomp, here you go: https://www.amazon.com/TECWARE-Mechanical-Keyboard-Switches-Excellent/dp/B076YHBQYJ That's cheaper than what I bopught and at this point that amount of money for this thing doesn't matter so amazon says iut will be here on thursday. This is the one I bought that sucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BBWL8WX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 No poo poo who wants it. If the new one is better it's up for grabs just send me a ups tag.
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Feb 11, 2024 02:27
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We have a bunch of people at work buying ergonomic keyboard and mice and wrist rests and poo poo, I should ask to get a nicer keyboard than the garbage chiclet key one that came with my cube I’d get something that all lights up and displays colour patterns 
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Feb 11, 2024 02:52
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Smithwick posted:Excel is eternal. It is like Judge Holden, it will never die. Its tabs are light and nimble. It never sleeps. It says that it will never quit. It dances in boardroom and in WFH office and it is a great favorite. It never sleeps, the excel. It is dancing, dancing. It says that it will never die.
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Feb 11, 2024 03:19
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Smithwick posted:I have had multiple directors and VPs over the years proclaim that some process, system or software would greatly reduce the use of excel. Almost none have bared fruit. Excel is eternal. It is like Judge Holden, it will never die. That's funny. I almost never use Excel at my office... ...I'm too busy dealing with SQL instead 
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Feb 11, 2024 03:41
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Motronic posted:That's cheaper than what I bopught and at this point that amount of money for this thing doesn't matter so amazon says iut will be here on thursday. I'm kinda curious how bad it will be so I'll take you up on that if no one else does. If someone likelier to actually use it a lot than I am wants it though it's all theirs.
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Feb 11, 2024 04:59
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Renegret posted:I use the wasd code with clears at home and I'm pretty happy with it, though given the choice I'd get browns instead of clear next time. Love my browns. Have a SteelSeries that fits that same description, about 11 years old at this point and still going.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:02
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Re: Keyboard talk: I am still clinging tightly to my old Microsoft Ergonomics keyboards (now discontinued) at work, but once those finally pass, I'll find a way to order a CloudNine split keyboard. I've adjusted to using it at home and really like it, but it could be a tough sell at work because oh look it has lights, HoW UnProFeSsIoNaL!! This dude. Mighty nice now that I'm used to it.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:06
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CancerCakes posted:All that knowledge transfer we did to get that plant up and running and product design we did so that they could produce product good enough for our market? Gone like leaves in the wind. hell yeah China rules.
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Feb 11, 2024 07:44
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Smithwick posted:I have had multiple directors and VPs over the years proclaim that some process, system or software would greatly reduce the use of excel. Almost none have bared fruit. Excel is eternal. It is like Judge Holden, it will never die. It's because the problem with excel is what people are doing with it not what it does. Anaplan is squarely in that "excel replacement" and has features like "ensuring formulae are consistent across a sheet" and "access control" but people demonstrably do not WANT those features in their excel sheets and get mad when they can't just replace a formula with a flat number and email it to some random guy. Also excel is functionally free to most organisations. There's nothing out there other than clones of excel that fits the niche of excel.
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Feb 11, 2024 08:27
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Clears are for cowards. I have a WASD CODE with MX Greens but it didn't hit my lizard brain hard enough so I made some unholy monstrosity with Box Navies and took that to work dxt posted:hell yeah China rules. CSPAM is thattaway *points in random direction* 
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Feb 11, 2024 08:34
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Our data scientists do a lot of cool work beyond excel. It would be immeasurably more appreciated if they ever learned formatting. Stop sending non-technical end users raw data dumps of unformatted numbers with database fields as column headers!
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Feb 11, 2024 08:42
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Democratic Pirate posted:Our data scientists do a lot of cool work beyond excel. It would be immeasurably more appreciated if they ever learned formatting. Stop sending non-technical end users raw data dumps of unformatted numbers with database fields as column headers! Send each one back to them demanding 21 CFR Part 11 B data verification until they stop.
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Feb 11, 2024 11:52
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Midjack posted:I've got a really good feeling about the football Lucy is holding for me, it was such a low price this time! "Times have changed, Greybeard! You have breathlessly told us what you think will happen with your (alleged) years of experience and expertise, but this newly minted engineer is telling us otherwise!"
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Feb 11, 2024 14:05
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-newbie engineer is proven horrendously wrong- "Ah. Well. Nevertheless!"
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Feb 11, 2024 14:08
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