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The government is putting out a bunch of video statements about the protests, but this is the only one in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvQFYP-2Jyg And you can tell the guy is not happy about having to give this very lovely report in English. And now even though people won't stop singing that lovely song by Beyond, I'm gonna bring up this old Le Mis variation they did a while back. It's still relevant because the protesters sing it occasionally and have been holding up banners and signs that read "Do you hear the people sing?" Bloodnose posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Zt639NdUM edit: I'll briefly explain the Chinese ones anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxQDnAqeicI CY says China isn't going to send in any troops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZEVvj5H5gc CY says this protest isn't helping anything and you gotta think about democracy in the long term https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Kj6OpYv6k CY says you gotta respect the police https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDGOmXOdyPs CY says you gotta stop disrupting people's lives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u11y-beU04 CY says the exact same thing in a video the government apparently uploaded twice under different titles 
Deep State of Mind fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 11:41
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Pyramid Scheme posted:689 is CY Leung - it's the number of votes he got when he was elected. I think the protesters have to protest through Oct 1st for maximum impact and then find some way to kick it up a notch afterward. Stupid question: have there actually been a list of demands? This could be critical in determining if the protests have any legs.
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Sep 30, 2014 12:38
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Vladimir Putin posted:Stupid question: have there actually been a list of demands? This could be critical in determining if the protests have any legs. Yes. A list of achievable demands was the first thing they announced. There are four. One is the release of all the arrested protesters, another is that the police apologize for their excessive force, the last is of course that the NPCSC retract its decision on universal suffrage and I forgot what the third one was. More lovely statements from the government: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75i704WPn8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtpWz5dGXeI This one is great. They're actually postponing their lovely fake consultation on universal suffrage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtpWz5dGXeI
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Sep 30, 2014 13:08
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Some posts from mainlander friends on Facebook:quote:Seeing a lot of news sharing/comments/outbursts on what's happening in HK, just want to say, I respect those who do research on history and has a clear mind while handling information. The picture is the bridge that connects HongKong to ShenZhen. quote:Same feeling. Rational people see things under the surface. AND students should not be sacrificed as a political tool used by some people on purpose.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:08
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Good point, we should blow up that bridge.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:15
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I lover the mainlander attitude of like, "There is a status quo in place, and yes it is hugely to your detriment in every way, but it's like this already, so stop having these outbursts and disrupting traffic...it's hurting my feelings very much....by the way do you know history?"
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Sep 30, 2014 13:27
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systran posted:Some posts from mainlander friends on Facebook: Presumably a lot of what they're saying is simply direct quotes of whatever the government has actually deigned to release about the topic. I have some teenagers from China here and I was explaining the situation to them, they told their parents and the parents start frantically contacting me, giving me a very similar line... 'You know history, please tell them the truth, explain to them that they should look under the surface.' The truth being... the omnipresent black hand of the CIA!! Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 13:34
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Bloodnose posted:Good point, we should blow up that bridge. It's ok we have at least 3 more.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:37
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systran posted:I lover the mainlander attitude of like, "There is a status quo in place, and yes it is hugely to your detriment in every way, but it's like this already, so stop having these outbursts and disrupting traffic...it's hurting my feelings very much....by the way do you know history?" systran, it is time again to put your incredible talent to work.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:38
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fart simpson posted:It's ok we have at least 3 more. Points?
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Sep 30, 2014 14:12
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quote:How will events unfold tomorrow in Hong Kong SAR?
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Sep 30, 2014 15:32
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Sep 30, 2014 15:34
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lol
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Sep 30, 2014 15:35
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That's beautiful.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:33
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China's only 65 years old? Then how can it be five thousand years old? I don't understand! I don't understand!
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Sep 30, 2014 17:36
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No loving way 
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Sep 30, 2014 17:51
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I am legitimately worried for my friends in Hong Kong. I will be watching the October 1st protests very closely. :/
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Sep 30, 2014 21:55
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Presumably a lot of what they're saying is simply direct quotes of whatever the government has actually deigned to release about the topic. I have some teenagers from China here and I was explaining the situation to them, they told their parents and the parents start frantically contacting me, giving me a very similar line... 'You know history, please tell them the truth, explain to them that they should look under the surface.' The truth being... the omnipresent black hand of the CIA!! A quick survey of four 20-something Beijingers I took last night resulted in a unanimous verdict of 'don't understand why they're protesting, don't really give a poo poo'.
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Oct 1, 2014 00:24
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V for Vegas posted:A quick survey of four 20-something Beijingers I took last night resulted in a unanimous verdict of 'don't understand why they're protesting, don't really give a poo poo'. When soldiers from England landed in America to put down the revolution they had no idea why Americans were rebelling. The land here was way richer than in their homeland and the average American way better off.
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Oct 1, 2014 01:40
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Presumably a lot of what they're saying is simply direct quotes of whatever the government has actually deigned to release about the topic. I have some teenagers from China here and I was explaining the situation to them, they told their parents and the parents start frantically contacting me, giving me a very similar line... 'You know history, please tell them the truth, explain to them that they should look under the surface.' The truth being... the omnipresent black hand of the CIA!! Is that really how Chinese parents deal with dissent? Rather then say "Oh, your teacher is just confused" they call you and beg you to tell them the party line?
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Oct 1, 2014 01:41
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pentyne posted:Is that really how Chinese parents deal with dissent? Rather then say "Oh, your teacher is just confused" they call you and beg you to tell them the party line? Whoa, and imply that an authority figure is wrong?
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Oct 1, 2014 01:43
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Day 3 recap! http://imgur.com/a/69mof It was quiet in the morning but crowds gathered in the afternoon. I was cleaning up some officer workers garbage and some yelled insults at me, some told me to go clean up more garbage elsewhere, and some office workers were showing support. By the afternoon, I helped move supplies here and there and removed plastic labels from water bottles. It's easier for the people in the recycling plants to process and if needs be people can make face masks. I heard some of the group leaders tried to make protesters have do some activities instead of just sitting around. Cardboard boxes were teared up to make signs and more banners made. Some were really creative and funny. By 730pm there was a bit of a thunderstorm and everyone was in a hurry to hand out ponchos and scrambling supplies to a safe spot. The students were yelling "STRIKE 689 WITH LIGHTNING!" and the rain invigorated them. The rain only lasted 10 minutes and by 8pm people were in a mass chant. Somehow I ended up being a chant leader and lots of students offered me some throat drops afterwards  I never thought that I would volunteer so much. First I thought of just taking some pictures and showing support but seeing the efforts everyone made me really impressed and want to help out. There's always some garbage to clean, some water or food to distribute, some signage made, something to be done. Anyways some pictures  Setting up tarps  Aid station by the overpass  "Come on out, 689!"  More larger tents being set up this time.  Falun Gong signs. I really wanted to cut them down. No political party is flying their flag or laying claim. Saw them handing out their newspaper like evangelicals, but everyone knows they are kooky people and dismiss them.  Seems like Admiralty is the central hub.  Garbage being collected. Think the leadership is trying to contract a dump truck to throw the garbage away.  Postal workers carting stuff since ROADS ARE BLOCKED. I also saw cargo truckers carting this around the road too. Occupiers are helping them out move stuff to and being apologetic.  Another aid station  Protesters are trying to keep themselves occupied instead of just lazying around  Empty by day, full by night.  Supply stations are relaying what they need and encouraging on lookers for the types of supplies. No fresh food, small individual packets, ponchos, surgical gloves. However, googles and masks are almost all sold out in Hong Kong Island and Kowloon  Some older tatoo guys sitting on the other side. They may look like triads just sitting around but they still helped out moving poo poo.  I loving cleaned this  And this, I barely even clean my room, but I did make this spotless. gently caress cigarette butts.  You can see it's pretty empty because traffic has been cordoned off.  Around 8.  Yeah it was a huge crowd, right after the thunderstorm  People were lighting their cellphone torches and chanting 香港加油 "Go Hong Kong!" Apple Daily flies their drone at this time of the day (yeah it's a bit coordinated for the media)  Eeeek, I was on the pedestrian bridge, but everyone still remained on the spot.  Lots of ponchos being handed out. Think we need more  Lots of traffic redirection  People participating and showing support. Trying to bolden "HOPE"  A banner commemorating 65 year anniversary got slashed. Behind it is a banner saying "Civil Disobedience"  Helping people traverse over barriers  Highschool math homework.  Moving more barriers. They get shifted all the time. Protesters were worried about police flooding in so choke points were made, or just pushed further to accommodate crowds. Each barrier set up has a bunch of umbrellas sticking out.  On top of an empty parking lot. I'm glad that no one is stepping on the grass. It's the WW2 memorial.  The graffiti was "dismiss the government". Some highschool teacher showed up with bucket of white paint to remove it. I'm glad that no one is grtaffiting on anything. People just make signs and banners and stick it on the walls. That's Day 3！
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Oct 1, 2014 02:58
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V for Vegas posted:A quick survey of four 20-something Beijingers I took last night resulted in a unanimous verdict of 'don't understand why they're protesting, don't really give a poo poo'. Quick survey of my 20-something coworkers resulted in the unanimous verdict of "what?" followed by "oh, that's bad" when the election issue was explained. The most personal opinion I got was "Hong Kong people won't accept that," in response to explaining the election thing.
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Oct 1, 2014 03:03
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I just had a class with a visiting professor. He made an interesting point in regards to what options Xi Jinping might chose in response to these protests. As background, he's a Hong Kong native, educated in the US, phd in political science and an avowed Pan-Democrat. He said that Xi Jinping is currently embarking on two mammoth endeavors: his anti-corruption campaign and efforts to privatize some of the bigger state-owned enterprises. These are supposed to set the tone for his regime; ensuring that they succeed is vital. That being the case, he might not want to spend the political capital required to get approval for a Tienanmen-style crackdown from the moderate, Hu Jintao clique that still holds some degree of influence. This professor thought there was a reasonable chance that Xi gives some moderate concession to the HK protesters so that he can concentrate on other domestic issues. Anyway, it's just one guy's opinion, but it is nice to get a slightly more optimistic perspective on occasion. Edit: and the Chinese nationals in the class give similar views as those above. One thought that the HKers seemed like "spoiled children", complaining even though they already have more rights than mainland Chinese.
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Oct 1, 2014 03:43
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I asked my mainland friend what he thought about these protests and he went off on how the CIA are in the crowd urging on the protest just like back in '89 at Tiananmen square. 
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Oct 1, 2014 03:52
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Chinese, In Actuality.
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Oct 1, 2014 03:55
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Smiling Knight posted:I just had a class with a visiting professor. He made an interesting point in regards to what options Xi Jinping might chose in response to these protests. As background, he's a Hong Kong native, educated in the US, phd in political science and an avowed Pan-Democrat. But won't he be burning political capital with the conservatives by doing that? The reformers aren't the ones blocking anti-corruption and market liberalization, it's the same people who are blocking democratic reform. He can only do so many reforms at a time, why would he choose Honk Kong over the other things?
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Oct 1, 2014 03:57
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icantfindaname posted:But won't he be burning political capital with the conservatives by doing that? The reformers aren't the ones blocking anti-corruption and market liberalization, it's the same people who are blocking democratic reform. He can only do so many reforms at a time, why would he choose Honk Kong over the other things? Yeah, I wasn't clear. From his statements, it seems that Xi wants to take a hard line against HK. To do that, he would need to rally support among the conservatives in order to overcome the reformist opposition. Getting that support might mean compromising his other projects. Of course, the internal workings of the CCP are extremely opaque and this might all be bunk.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:12
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Apologies if this has been posted earlier. Accusations of foreign support for protests are not entirely without basis. However, I'm totally cool with that. National Endowment for Democracy posted:National Democratic Institute for International Affairs Source: http://www.ned.org/publications/annual-reports/2012-annual-report/asia/china-hong-kong
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Oct 1, 2014 04:24
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Geeze I want some of that money. I have been buying supplies out of my own pocket. THANKS OBAMASmiling Knight posted:Edit: and the Chinese nationals in the class give similar views as those above. One thought that the HKers seemed like "spoiled children", complaining even though they already have more rights than mainland Chinese. Overseas Chinese nationals dismissing Hong Kong is really infuriating  They should think of how little there is in China. People in Hong Kong are asking for the right to vote so that the city can be a free society. Just like the places where they emmigrate or studying.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:26
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Smiling Knight posted:Of course, the internal workings of the CCP are extremely opaque and this might all be bunk. Agree with the bunk risk - Anyone claiming to know what's really happening among the CCP cliques and power structure doesn't know. Not even Xi knows. That's the nature of the murkiness.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:27
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If you want infuriating how about this, uh, piece, which was just mysteriously posted on the Reddit live feed (e: now taken down)quote:10 Easy Steps to being a "Peaceful Protester": Zohar fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 04:28
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I'm on the way to the thing right now.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:32
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caberham posted:Overseas Chinese nationals dismissing Hong Kong is really infuriating I agree. However, I can understand how mainlanders can harbour some resentment towards Hong Kong people based on the anti-Mainland sentiments that have come out of Hong Kong eg the Golden Forum's locust ads*, numerous videos of Hong Kong people lecturing mainlanders about eating noodles on the MTR, letting their kids pee in inappropriate places, generally having a pretty arrogant view towards the Mainland "noveau riche". That sort of resentment can play a big factor in stopping someone seeing the bigger picture (even assuing that they agree with our Western political teology that democracy is Good). * Which, IIRC, a group of Shanghai people then copied to complain about migrant workers soaking up Shanghai public resources.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:34
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quote:Pro tip: change your profile pic to a yellow ribbon because the Chinese government is totally counting how many of you do it before they considering listening to what you have to say! Hey, I'm a facebook cliche! Hopefully I get bonus points because I've changed both my profile pic and my cover photo.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:36
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I think it should serve to contradict whoever it was that said I was racist that I am extremely proud of everyone involved in the protest right now. All I can ask for is that people have an interest in governing themselves and doing it responsibly.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:36
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Pyramid Scheme posted:Agree with the bunk risk - Anyone claiming to know what's really happening among the CCP cliques and power structure doesn't know. Not even Xi knows. That's the nature of the murkiness. Oh, he wasn't trying to claim that he knew was going on; just trying to remind us that Beijing is not a monolithic actor; there are some high up in the CCP, maybe even the Politburo, who oppose a crackdown, and Xi himself is a new leader who has his own grandiose projects to husband and fight for. In that situation, any decision is liable to be based on internal party politics as much as domestic or international affairs.
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Oct 1, 2014 04:50
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Here's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7r8qi3NIY&t=222s A better one without dumb techno music https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205037669248521 I'm actually angry at how racists Hongers can be when it comes to darker skinned people and mainlanders. Anyways. Pyramid Scheme posted:Hey, I'm a facebook cliche! I'm guilty as well, posted in reddit/facebook/SA  公民抗命，公民意識，公民責任。 Civil obedience, civic values, civic responsibility.  Yeah... 
caberham fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 04:52
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Zohar posted:If you want infuriating how about this, uh, piece, which was just mysteriously posted on the Reddit live feed (e: now taken down) ARGH MY BUS WAS DIVERTED DEATH TO DEMOCRACY Also ARGH MY AMBULANCE/FIRE THINGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o9pXW3LFRY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN288WEBVfU
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Oct 1, 2014 05:14
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Smiling Knight posted:I just had a class with a visiting professor. He made an interesting point in regards to what options Xi Jinping might chose in response to these protests. As background, he's a Hong Kong native, educated in the US, phd in political science and an avowed Pan-Democrat. I disagree. Xi has set the tone of his foreign policy when he took that giant-rear end multi-billion dollar oil rig to Vietnam's front door and showed Vietnam who was the boss. In fact he didn't have to do this. There are area in the South China Sea China has much stronger claims. China could have started the deep sea exploration in "safer" regions but Xi decided to put it straight to Vietnam's face anyway. It was a strategic gesture. It was a gesture IMO similar to the way Chinese national congress defined the HK election procedure in narrower terms. The CCP and Xi didn't have to do it but they decided to send a gesture to the HK democrats anyway. As for anti-corruption drive. We all know it was part power consolidation and part anti-corruption. And the drive is over. The biggest prize is Zhou Yongkang. Zhou was part of the standing committee member, you can't go any higher than that. Xi is not going to bring down his predecessor Hu and Wen for corruption charge anyway. My impression is pushing for clearer defined rule of law is Xi's bigger concern, compare to privatization. Anyway Xi has consolidated power much much sooner than Hu and even faster than Jiang. I doubt he face much resistance in the HK issue within the party. And my hunch is it was his wish to take the confrontational approach, like the Vietnam maritime dispute. I don't see how China need to do anything in HK other than follow what happened in Occupy Wall Street, you stalk it out in 2 months. It would be stupid for China/PLA to get blood on their own hands when HKPD can do most of the job. I thought the protest would take a turn for the worse if someone actually die. But then when I thought about it more, a lot of people did died during the anti-China Vietnamese protest/riots and nobody gave a poo poo. A woman even set herself on fire in protest, and nobody talked about it. The more I think about the street protest in the 21st century, I more I think middle class polite protests don't work. The polices are getting better equipment to deal with peaceful protests. The only protests that worked were bloody protests in Egypt, Libya and Euromaidan.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:33
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