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i think summoned cygors are more worthwhile than summoned manticores.
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Aug 14, 2016 19:34
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:13 |
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That is very possible. In my case, I remembered my dragon-mounted Mannfred taking major damage from a chaos lord on a manticore so I went that route. Then again that happened in the campaign and even in MP spawned manticores aren't going to be as good as lord mounts. It was an interesting experiment.
rockopete fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 19:42
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The Cygor is stronger than the Manticore, but Lore of Beasts is overall better than Lore of the Wild, so it balances out.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:05
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Do the various things that effect Gor and Ungor herds affect Bestigor herds also, or are they separate?
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Aug 14, 2016 20:20
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Endorph posted:i think summoned cygors are more worthwhile than summoned manticores. Situational, Cygors are great against armies that think they can sit on their rear end against the beastmen since they're hard to counter with cannons etc. but the manticore wins out in matches where you can micro repeated charges and where your opponent is going to melee rush you. I think the manticore is a bit better against undead and sometimes stronger against chaos. Cygor is always better against Empire, Brettonia and Dwarves. In the mirror I think beastmen get so badly wrecked by their inability to kill flyers that I'd go manticore in that match too.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:23
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I think people don't take enough artillery in general when it comes to fighting Dwarfs. They only ever take 2, so if you're Empire and take 4 cannons then Dwarfs have to march over to you while they lose the artillery battle. Which means their flanks open up a lot more for your cav, and they have to walk through your handgunner's range, and they're moving when they eat your infantry charge and don't get their stationary defense bonus. Plus you can just take empire knights since you don't need elite cav against dwarfs, just cav that happens to have a horse.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:29
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:never got into multi-player, is there a general meta game that allows for competitive matches or is it unbalanced. What I guess I'm asking is do you need house rules to have fun? I have a feeling you will always see those 2-3 op combos always carrying the fight and making it frustrating and not worth the time. You need houserules because the game doesn't have any objectives other than wipe out entire enemy army. Thanks to hidden units and a match timer, or the ability of some units to run away for forever, you can end up against some real dickhole opponents that lost but don't allow themselves to just lose. This has been in every total war since Rome 1. Still, these players are extremely rare, I run into them a lot since I play a lot of matches. In terms of actual balance, you can win with almost every setup but some require a lot more skill to use than others, so you tend to see a smaller pool of effective strategies from newer players or players with bad micro. Also, every comp that isn't sort of a balanced one could find itself hard countered by something and since the game is blind comps, you can get sideswiped and get a guaranteed loss but that requires both of you picked gimmick strats.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:32
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Yukitsu posted:This has been in every total war since Rome 1. Hey they took a break from it in Shogun 2! Control points on the map and everything. Apparently their policy is to  the multiplayer exactly one time and never again.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:34
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Chomp8645 posted:Hey they took a break from it in Shogun 2! Control points on the map and everything. You don't remember that they literally had to add that one in because it was so common for people to play like that back then?
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Aug 14, 2016 20:37
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Well yeah but at least they did it, and early on in the life cycle. That poo poo aint coming this time.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:39
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I don't think that's a huge issue now, as long as you have a cavalry unit or flying unit to chase down stragglers. Army routs happen pretty regularly in MP.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:42
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How's the balance between spell schools these days? Also, does spell power scale with unit size yet?
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Aug 14, 2016 23:00
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Doctor Schnabel posted:How's the balance between spell schools these days? Also, does spell power scale with unit size yet? Spell Balance is improved, but not perfect. IMO: Light is easily one of the best Lores, mostly down to Gaze of Shem and Net being insanely buffed last patch for no discernable reason and most of the other spells being at least acceptable. Fire has become a solid lore with a good mix of spells, biggest remaining disappointment is Flame Tornado, which despite boasting reasonable AP damage is still so slow and prone to throwing units out of it's AOE its unreasonably hard to damage anything with it. Flaming Skull is one of the best vortex spells though, and fireball and both buffs are good so whatever. Heaven is still mostly damage spells, but it got buffed to the point where most of them are good so it's a decent lore, if a bit overspecialized. Lore of Beasts is another excellent lore. The passive gives you increased power reserves and you get two very good buffs, a pretty great projectile, a manticore summon, and the best aoe direct damage spell in the game now that Devolve and Final Transmutation got nerfed into the ground. Death is a bit mediocre now. Spirit Leech is still useable, Purple Sun got buffed substantially, and the debuffs are still solid, but Fate of Bjuna got nerfed to hell and it just isn't amazing at anything anymore. Lore of Metal is simultaneously somewhat buffed and still easily the worst lore. For race specific lores: Lore of Vampires is ridiculously useful, between Gaze of Nagash, Invocation of Nehek, and Wind of Death, you don't really need anything else. Lore of the Wild is strong but only half the spells are really useful, you want Savage Dominion, Viletide, and Mantle mostly. Nerfed Devolve is decent but not inspiring, Traitor-kin is only good for the mild slow effect, and Bray Scream is straight useless. Orc Magic is still a lot better than Goblin magic, but Goblin Shamans have a niche for stealth assassinating low-armor units with their missile spell and stalk. There's no scaling with size and probably never will be but magic overall has been heavily rebalanced. Cooldowns in general are way longer, buffs usually last longer, and vortexes got buffed to being situationally useful sometimes. Direct Damage spells got heavily nerfed in general and Missile Spells got arbitrarily buffed like crazy but I don't expect that to last.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:13
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madmac posted:Spell Balance is improved, but not perfect. Orc magic has some great buffs that often get overlooked. "Ere we go!" will win you fights. The direct damage spells are pretty underwhelming, though.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:36
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Have dwarvesrbeen improved at all?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:36
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Josef bugman posted:Have dwarvesrbeen improved at all?
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Aug 15, 2016 00:49
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Endorph posted:yes, in several ways, most notable runesmiths got massively buffed and now give a bunch of always-active buffs to nearby units Note that those buffs are by default NOT selected when you take a Runesmith, so be sure to click them on.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:00
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It's me, I'm the guy who played half a dozen campaigns before realizing you have to select which units get which banners/runes 
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Aug 15, 2016 01:07
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I finally got Manny to the point where he can cast Purple Suns nearly every 10 seconds, mana permitting. I nearly wiped two units of Empire Knights which had blobbed up trying to get at my Varghulf just from a lucky cast that just kept wandering through the unit  Also I'm really late on this but Mannfred is so so much better than Kemmler. You can literally take a full stack of skeletons/zombies/dire wolves as a screen for the murdershow that is Manny and Fluffy. Even my bog-standard Master Necromancer feels better than Kemmler because at least I can put him on a horse (there's still no real reason to use them as generals though). Is there any real reason to use Necromancers of any variety in battle? Even the agent version seems better parked in a high-tier province under construction
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Aug 15, 2016 01:06
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To be fair, I think one of the runesmith buffs is just missile defense, so you don't have to click that one on when you're facing vampire counts.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:36
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Frankly posted:I finally got Manny to the point where he can cast Purple Suns nearly every 10 seconds, mana permitting. I nearly wiped two units of Empire Knights which had blobbed up trying to get at my Varghulf just from a lucky cast that just kept wandering through the unit In single player? Not really. In multiplayer you can spec out a necromancer with the always active AOE regen for like <300 gold which is pretty boss.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:56
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Even in campaign necromancers can cast Nehek to start, which is all you need for them to be worthwhile. Nehek is the backbone of an undead line.
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Aug 15, 2016 02:02
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Vox and I played our matches tonight - replays are attached below. Good games, we played a few off the books matches afterwards for fun too. https://www.dropbox.com/s/atginxhpnx6t2xl/Goon%20fight%20vs%20Vox%201.replay?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/nexqi5ggu8bkhg0/Goon%20fight%20vs%20Vox%202.replay?dl=0
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Aug 15, 2016 03:12
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Mukip posted:I could certainly arrange a loser's bracket. Yes hi I would like to sign up to see if I can make the highlight reel again
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Aug 15, 2016 03:17
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Captain Beans posted:Vox and I played our matches tonight - replays are attached below. Good games, we played a few off the books matches afterwards too. Congrats man, your victories were well-earned. Game 2 was phenomenally close. I won't spoil it (though obviously I lost) but it was definitely a better match than the first one. Matches were: 1) Beastmen (Vox) vs. Bretonnia (Beans) 2) Greenskins (Vox) vs. Empire (Beans)
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Aug 15, 2016 03:17
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We also had a great Vampire Counts vs. Dwarfs bonus match that was also incredibly close if anyone wants another replay.
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Aug 15, 2016 03:24
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Vox Nihili posted:We also had a great Vampire Counts vs. Dwarfs bonus match that was also incredibly close if anyone wants another replay. 
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Aug 15, 2016 03:28
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I am increasingly convinced that "Louen to the face" is a proper answer to everything, even Gorebulls. Minotaurs are deceptively fast. That second match was hideously close, I thought it was over when he got inside your formation. Proper steam tank use was the real winner, it really anchors a line.
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Aug 15, 2016 03:34
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Here's the bonus match. Dwarfs (Beans) v. Vampire Counts (Vox)
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Aug 15, 2016 03:46
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Is there a detailed, advanced-level written guide to playing Beastmen? I just played around with them for a while on Normal but I don't really feel I understand how to use a lot of the units. Gors, ok, that's infantry. Ungors, support infantry. Minotaurs are my big brawlers. Centigors are my fast cavalry. Where do the various beast units fit in, though -- razorgors, warhounds, ? In what situations would I prefer them to Centigors and vice-versa? And what are some good endgame and midgame army compositions? Early on it's pretty simple -- everything without Stalk in one spot, stuff with Stalk in a position to encircle, one or two units of warhounds or centigors to sweep around the back and/or chase defeated units. Later though . .so many choices! Gors with shields, gors without shields; three different kinds of minotaur . .aarg!
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Aug 15, 2016 04:18
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Keep in mind that some varieties of Gors and Ungors have Vanguard Deployment, so they can deploy in the neutral zone between the players. I personally ignore Ung/Gors that don't have it unless I have a special reason to take them. Certain Ungors additionally have the Stalk ability which allows them to move while staying hidden. Centigors and Warhounds also have Vanguard Deployment, so in total you can have entire infantry and cavalry sections deployed anywhere on the battle map. Poison Warhounds are my must-have as far as cavalry. Poison provides a major across the board stat debuff, armored or not, and they can fulfill the mop up duties of regular light cavalry. I haven't bothered with Centigors or Razorgors much, but I'm also playing the mini-campaign which is almost exclusively vs Empire so they may be more useful against other races. Minotaurs do not have Vanguard but are very fast, almost matching cavalry speeds, which helps make up for this. In sieges this makes them very fast battering rams as they can smash gates, and their great size allows them to plow through the wall of infantry waiting on the other side. I stick with shielded Minotaurs by default unless I'm facing a lot of cavalry or larger ('Large') enemies, in which case I'll take along some of the Great Weapon version. Get at least one Gorebull per army, a level 9 Gorebull can have incredible auras and army-wide buffs. I currently have two mid-endgame stacks, each with Lord Gorebull Bray Shaman (Beasts usually) 6 Minotaurs, mainly Shields 2 Warhounds with Poison 4 Gor herd 4 Ungor herd (swords and shields) 1 Cygor Consider replacing the Ungors with Ungor Raiders for the missiles if fighting lots of flyers. I haven't super analyzed and min/maxed my armies, but these seem to be working for now. I'm on VH Campaign, H Battle.
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Aug 15, 2016 04:49
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Captain Beans posted:In single player? Not really. ah, poop. I guess it is the Vampire Counts at the end of the day wiegieman posted:Even in campaign necromancers can cast Nehek to start, which is all you need for them to be worthwhile. Nehek is the backbone of an undead line. Pretty much I guess. Though I was sure that Vampire Lords get access to that as well (probably mixing up what Mannfred can get). Nehek is really strong these days though, it's pretty amazing just how much mileage it gives even trash like Zombies during a battle, let alone any of the elite monster units.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is there a detailed, advanced-level written guide to playing Beastmen? i think one is in the OP or one of the first posts
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Aug 15, 2016 05:40
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i think one is in the OP or one of the first posts I looked, didn't see for beastmen.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:45
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Frankly posted:Pretty much I guess. Though I was sure that Vampire Lords get access to that as well (probably mixing up what Mannfred can get). Nehek is really strong these days though, it's pretty amazing just how much mileage it gives even trash like Zombies during a battle, let alone any of the elite monster units. No, you're right. All VC Lords have Vampirism access, Mannfred also has Death and the vampire hero units have Death but not vampirism. Vamp Lords don't get the regen aura that necromancer lords/heroes do, but they make up for it by being vampire lords. Having a second Nehek caster available ranges from decent to amazing depending on how the fight goes but chances are you're better off using them for their deployment past level 2. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I looked, didn't see for beastmen. It's the third post down, you have to scroll for a while quote:Some beastmen tips (for reference I beat the mini campaign on hard and I'm well into the grand campaign on hard now): I'd say that getting ungor herds and minotaurs are more important than maxing the base horde building and I'd go for the +15 un/gor attack tech before the income ones but that's about it. The +10 attack/defense for heroes and lords is also good, can't remember if it's on the way to growth or not. Go blue on the lords, get the -upkeep to 3, 1 in +income, then lightning strike and max growth, max +income then go to the top line for slug skin (especially if you have minotaurs), the red line for +vigour or the combat line to be basically unstoppable. I've never put my lord on a chariot, don't know how well it works. 2 high-end hordes both with the maxed upkeep building, upkeep reduction on lords and the reduction from the recruitment buildings can be income positive without raiding. It's hilarious. Malagor has some amazing top tree skills, a total of -9 leadership to all enemies in the region is amazing, +30 winds is great and I don't know what Crowfather does past the first point but it looks cool. Gitro fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 05:46
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Well, RIP necromancers! Vampire Lords + every other VC hero are a lot of fun in combat anyway so it's no big loss. I'll just ball up my Necromancer Lord in some sort of mad, cackling and self-healing cavalry deathball for a bit of fun later on in the campaign. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Where do the various beast units fit in, though -- razorgors, warhounds, ? In what situations would I prefer them to Centigors and vice-versa? Treat Razorgors as Boar Boyz, they really need a solid charge into heavy infantry to shine as their combat stats are rubbish and there's other options for dealing with light infantry/skirmishers. Minotaurs seem fill a lot of the same roles though, but the pigs are probably a lot cheaper and have wider disruption? Centigors are your proper cavalry flavours with a twist - they'll never get tired so long as their leadership remains intact. So they're naturally excellent at cycle-charging for days, hunting down routers or just going for long flanks to get at artillery in the backlines. Chaos Hounds are already brilliant and cheaper for the latter two, so you'll bring Centigors for the charges and harassment the Throwing Axe variants bring. Having a fresh unit of light cavalry guaranteed late in the battle is pretty excellent. e: vvv Oh for sure, Children of the Night is one of the stealthiest Good Skills in the entire game. I think people get caught up on Spirit Leech/Bjuna coming from the multiplayer scene but Dreadknight, Soulblight and Purple Sun are really good spells for VC's in campaign Frankly fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 06:04
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Keep in mind that the second level of Children of the Night (a blue skill) gives you +1 vampire hero slots. Vampire power couples won my first campaign, since death magic is so solid.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:12
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Gitro posted:
Thanks! I was on my phone so didn't see it.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:34
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Classic Fascist won our matches, 2-1. Had no idea how badly nerfed Fate of Bjuna was.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:58
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Aside from Xereus, what are the best Death spells nowadays? Spirit Leech seemed usable still if not anywhere near as dramatic as it used to be, I've cast soulblight a couple of times but I didn't see it do too much. How good is Aspect of the Dreadknight? Giving a unit terror seems like it could be really useful but I don't think I've ever remembered to use it over a nehek or something.
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Aug 15, 2016 07:48
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