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Wizard Styles posted:The more I fight them the more I think Barbarians need a lot of balancing work. My party is equipped enough now to fight like 20 chosen on even ground but those loving armored snow unholds still piss me off so much. They have way too much armor/health and that throw just fucks you over so often.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:06
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I actually find Chosen way more dangerous than even orc warriors. Orc warriors for all their armour and health don't actually do much damage, but Chosen will whack you with a two-handed weapon that does half your health even through heavy armour, then rotate in another guy who whacks you again, then they both use adrenaline so they'll both hit you again before you get a chance to do anything. Also despite their very heavy armour and weapons and repeated use of fatigue-heavy skills like Adrenaline and Rotation, I haven't actually noticed them having much trouble with fatigue, which the devs said would be their weakness. Thralls I think are fine. I see them as more on par with bandit thugs. They die a little easier, but they do a little more damage, and I think that's fine. They're never going to threaten a mid- or late-game party, but neither do bandit thugs. I noticed that in the early game, before you have decent armour, I found thralls slightly more dangerous because they did more damage and inflicted more bleed, but still I think they're a nice easy early-game addition. And it's nice to have enemy types that you can just carve through as a lategame company, that's always satisfying.
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Jun 6, 2019 05:07
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vyelkin posted:I actually find Chosen way more dangerous than even orc warriors. Orc warriors for all their armour and health don't actually do much damage, but Chosen will whack you with a two-handed weapon that does half your health even through heavy armour, then rotate in another guy who whacks you again, then they both use adrenaline so they'll both hit you again before you get a chance to do anything. Also despite their very heavy armour and weapons and repeated use of fatigue-heavy skills like Adrenaline and Rotation, I haven't actually noticed them having much trouble with fatigue, which the devs said would be their weakness. As for Fatigue: the Barbarian Rotation variant costs 5 Fatigue instead of 25. quote:Thralls I think are fine. I see them as more on par with bandit thugs. They die a little easier, but they do a little more damage, and I think that's fine. They're never going to threaten a mid- or late-game party, but neither do bandit thugs. I noticed that in the early game, before you have decent armour, I found thralls slightly more dangerous because they did more damage and inflicted more bleed, but still I think they're a nice easy early-game addition. And it's nice to have enemy types that you can just carve through as a lategame company, that's always satisfying.
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Jun 6, 2019 05:43
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Wizard Styles posted:As for Fatigue: the Barbarian Rotation variant costs 5 Fatigue instead of 25. That's some serious bullshit imo.
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Jun 6, 2019 05:48
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The fatigue thing being a weakness is pretty funny considering they are often with drummers.
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Jun 6, 2019 06:26
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Wizard Styles posted:The more I fight them the more I think Barbarians need a lot of balancing work. Thralls are definitely more dangerous than thugs, though they're both pretty pathetic in general. Adrenaline spam in particular makes thralls at least occasionally scary in the early game.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:36
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Wizard Styles posted:The more I fight them the more I think Barbarians need a lot of balancing work. I am still yet to test the changes you sent me. Hopefully will do so this weekend
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Jun 6, 2019 08:03
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RabidWeasel posted:Did anyone else realise that greatswords / longswords got nerfed last patch, because I just noticed that they only have 25% direct HP damage now instead of 35%. That's a big enough change that I'm more seriously considering getting as many bardiches as possible (which do more damage under most circumstances now in exchange for 5% lower hit chance and only one AoE attack). Gah! RIP my massive number of sword specialists, I was planning on leaning on greatswords a lot still. RabidWeasel posted:GS is still absolutely the best choice in a lot of fights now but they're more of a liability vs. heavily armoured targets such as orc warriors, barbarian chosen etc. Oh, okay. And tbf, bardiches get somewhat less bonus from axe mastery than greatswords do from sword mastery, so I could very plausibly just hand some of my sword dudes an axe in the fights where swords are suboptimal.
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Jun 6, 2019 08:52
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I think I found the insanest two handed mace. It one shots footmen. Every hit basically. I might have the better famed weapons mod but it’s still insane. 64% through armor and 100-120 damage.
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Jun 6, 2019 09:15
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Okay been playing this a day or so. Seems decent! Looks like the gameplay loop is kill stuff - sell off loot, hire more corpses to be, try take on harder stuff, get massacred, rebuild?
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Jun 6, 2019 10:03
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Synthbuttrange posted:Okay been playing this a day or so. Seems decent! Looks like the gameplay loop is kill stuff - sell off loot, hire more corpses to be, try take on harder stuff, get massacred, rebuild? That's pretty much it man. And lost stories of your boys heroism here. Or funny poo poo. Or about how everyone is a GarbageDik
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Jun 6, 2019 12:41
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Key thing to understand: the suit of armour a brother is wearing will often be worth more to you than the brother. You can still be climbing the power curve if you lose 3 guys but gain a suit of plate mail or something.
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Jun 6, 2019 12:53
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It helps to not lose too many guys if you can help it- you'll eventually need a roster of veterans, and churning through too many dudes can start to seriously cut into your funds even if they're cheap to hire. The first few weeks of the game are likely to be a meatgrinder regardless.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:10
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I’ve kept the greatsword on my lone wolf and I’m not seeing much of a difference. Having both the two man line attack and 3 man sweep is extremely nice for one weapon, especially when I can position him + adrenaline him to murder his way through things. He’s slightly worse vs armor but he still murders pretty much everything as far as I can tell. Bardiches and Hammers are equally good but having a sword master guy is still totally fine. He does also have 110 MAtk though so that could be part. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 13:20
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It's not that the greatsword is bad, its just no longer 100% take this every single time. Which is good imo
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Jun 6, 2019 13:22
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dogstile posted:It's not that the greatsword is bad, its just no longer 100% take this every single time. Which is good imo Agreed. On another note, here's my collection at day 568.  Still sad I missed my few opportunities for named swords/bows by like 5k every time  . Not a problem anymore though, I've hit a point where I sit at like 45k between purchases now. I've seen like 6 1h axes at this point.Just finished my 2nd noble war, I need to find some necros for the Kraken and the Black Monolith still but I'm close to calling this one complete. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 13:26
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Synthbuttrange posted:Okay been playing this a day or so. Seems decent! Looks like the gameplay loop is kill stuff - sell off loot, hire more corpses to be, try take on harder stuff, get massacred, rebuild? Pretty much. Read the "beginner's guide" I put on steam.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:27
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:It helps to not lose too many guys if you can help it- you'll eventually need a roster of veterans, and churning through too many dudes can start to seriously cut into your funds even if they're cheap to hire. The first few weeks of the game are likely to be a meatgrinder regardless. Oh sure, not losing guys is always better than losing guys. What I mean is that in battle bros losing a guy is not the massive setback it is in most games like this, because the cost of replacing him is 1/10 the cost of his gear and the nature of the game is that all you need a newbro to do is stand in the centre of the line and hold up a shield to get some xp.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:30
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Alchenar posted:Oh sure, not losing guys is always better than losing guys. What I mean is that in battle bros losing a guy is not the massive setback it is in most games like this, because the cost of replacing him is 1/10 the cost of his gear and the nature of the game is that all you need a newbro to do is stand in the centre of the line and hold up a shield to get some xp. This is true to a point but I think the value of a good bro getting to 10-11 is understated as well. When you start to fight real enemies, like the noble war armies or actual Orc and Barbarian threats, the gear alone doesn't really matter because the guy behind it has such lovely stats. You really need to have guys with 80+ MAtk and 25+ MDef for them to stand any real chance, preferably even higher at like 90/40 if you want to push into the hard camps and fight off the noble army units that chase you around. So while guys are expendable I would overall consider finding good bros and getting them levelled up equally important to getting them gear, it's just that gear is more important early and the bros are more important later. I've also only been playing Lone Wolf too so the need for quality from all 12 bros is really, really important. But it has paid off, my crew has something like 4800 kills between the 12 of them. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 13:34
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Gridlocked posted:I am still yet to test the changes you sent me. Hopefully will do so this weekend Also the changed item options for Bastards and Adventurous Nobles were bugged because they referred to two incorrectly spelled weapon files so occasionally the game would lock up when it generated one of those. GreyjoyBastard posted:Oh, okay. And tbf, bardiches get somewhat less bonus from axe mastery than greatswords do from sword mastery, so I could very plausibly just hand some of my sword dudes an axe in the fights where swords are suboptimal.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:43
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I've beaten my first noble war and the dead have risen. I have three new recruits who are potential shield bros - high stamina, good Melee attack and good melee defence. I have multiple polearm bros including my Sarge, and three halfway decent rangedbros- my starting crossbowman is still with us - speaking of which is the heavy crossbow the best generic crossbow in the game? Warbows don't seem massively useful with the amount of armour and shields that I seem to be coming across - as someone said way upthread my crossbro has way more kills than my archers. Bows seem high utility at the start of the game but have fallen off very hard. picking off chaff before it gets to the front line seems to be the main use as you move into the late game. Alchenar posted:Oh sure, not losing guys is always better than losing guys. What I mean is that in battle bros losing a guy is not the massive setback it is in most games like this, because the cost of replacing him is 1/10 the cost of his gear and the nature of the game is that all you need a newbro to do is stand in the centre of the line and hold up a shield to get some xp. Honestly the big difference for me going into a new game - now that I'm familiar with the systems is actually know what bro is good for what based off of their stat ranges and actually using them for a specific role in combat. You can level replacement dudes up to 4/5 pretty rapidly which means they atleast become reliable in what they do - but yeah losing two mid to low tier brothers for your first set of chain mail - totally worth it.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:44
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Southpaugh posted:I've beaten my first noble war and the dead have risen. I have three new recruits who are potential shield bros - high stamina, good Melee attack and good melee defence. High stamina and good starting melee attack and melee defense should actually end up as 2 handers really. A guy with 75+ MAtk and 30+ MDef at 11 is going to do a whole lot more swinging a 2h hammer, greatsword or bardiche then he will with a shield. Because the AI in this game can pick targets based on their vulnerability, a shield bro only does so much to soak dangerous hits, especially since the most dangerous threats tend to also have shield breaker, nullifying their advantage. Shield bros should really be more the guys who only have like 20 MDef at 11, where the shield will get their stats up to a comfortable level. In my screenshot 6 posts up you can see I have 1 shield guy total now at day 550, and he really only exists because I found both a great named cleaver and a good named shield. Also war bows and heavy crossbows are pretty much equal. The warbow will put out a lot more shots on average, especially with killing frenzy and berserking, whereas the crossbow will hit a little harder with each shot. The total damage output will be pretty much the same. The big use for warbows and where they outshine crossbows is shooting at things like Orc Berserkers and other ranged units, both of which are very important to kill quickly. I have 2 warbows and 1 heavy crossbro, and I'm happy with that setup. The spiked impaler is equal to the heavy crossbow btw, it loses 5% of the accuracy benefit on its shot but can knock back enemies it hits. If you get one from an overseer it's an equally good choice. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 13:50
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The impaler is worth using just on the off chance you get to knock some gently caress off a cliff using it. Stat's be damned.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:55
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dogstile posted:The impaler is worth using just on the off chance you get to knock some gently caress off a cliff using it. Stat's be damned. There is no feeling in all the world like the fall damage killing a guy when you do that. I laughed for five minutes straight.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:57
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Southpaugh posted:I've beaten my first noble war and the dead have risen. I have three new recruits who are potential shield bros - high stamina, good Melee attack and good melee defence. There's another top-tier crossbow, the Spiked Impaler, which you can only get off the corpse of goblin overseers. It does the same damage as the Heavy Crossbow but also knocks the target back one tile, in exchange for slightly lower accuracy. I like it because the knockback is very handy, but be aware it's not always good (I once knocked a necromancer back into some long grass, which meant my other archers couldn't target him). Warbows are extremely useful and stay that way forever. They have much longer range than crossbows which means you use them to snipe enemies from across the battlefield. This is much less useful for picking off chaff, but remains useful forever for taking out enemy archers, necromancers, shamans, and so on.
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Jun 6, 2019 14:01
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Is there such a thing as too much MA?  This guy already has 104 at lvl 9, do I keep boosting it or try shore up some of his other stats? I kinda feel I messed up by making him battleforged because his fatigue sucks, but then again so does his hp so I dunno if he's really nimble material either
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Jun 6, 2019 14:15
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Wafflecopper posted:Is there such a thing as too much MA? 100+ is definitely enough, but going to 110 isn’t wasted because it’s offset by enemy MDef. I’d prioritize HP, fatigue and MDef though, or that swordmaster is gonna die a lot faster than you’d like. I’d personally take fortified mind and colossus if you hadn’t yet too. 50 resolve is low to me but I’m crazy about that compared to most. Colossus is almost a must at 47 though, he will die to like 2 crossbow or 2H arpen hits. If you have 2 points at 11 and haven’t already taken gifted, the max fatigue, MDef and HP rolls could be very handy. Most of my guys are sitting at 60-70 fatigue, so if you can pump it into that range you should be fine. You always get 15 back each round so more is really only extending your original window, and that varies a lot by the attacks/moves you’re making. AoE guys benefit a lot from big pools, but with that cleaver the regular attack is perfectly loving terrifying on its own. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 14:17
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He dies to two Punctures and can't do anything besides using the basic attack without exhausting himself. He absolutely needs HP and Fatigue, even if he rolls 2s for both of them.
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Jun 6, 2019 15:43
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If he doesn't get very good fatigue and HP rolls on his next two levels, i'd probably retire him. I consider 60hp and 70 "working" fatigue after equipment to be minimum thresholds. Question I can't answer: WHich parts of the recent features were DLC only, and which were included in the base game via patching? e.g., are Origins DLC only? Dire wolf armor and taxidermy was dlc only right? Were two handed maces and polehammers and fencing swords and whips DLC weapons only or included in base game?
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Jun 6, 2019 16:07
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I didn’t realize he only has a 150 helmet on so he’s gonna take another 3-8 there, and as a cleaver master he should carry a whip too so yeah fatigue is going to be an issue unless you get good rolls, and you should definitely take gifted if you haven’t. I’m comfortable with some of mine at 63-66 because they’re “complete” at 300+ head/chest
Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 16:12
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Mazz posted:High stamina and good starting melee attack and melee defense should actually end up as 2 handers really. A guy with 75+ MAtk and 30+ MDef at 11 is going to do a whole lot more swinging a 2h hammer, greatsword or bardiche then he will with a shield. Because the AI in this game can pick targets based on their vulnerability, a shield bro only does so much to soak dangerous hits, especially since the most dangerous threats tend to also have shield breaker, nullifying their advantage. Shield bros should really be more the guys who only have like 20 MDef at 11, where the shield will get their stats up to a comfortable level. In my screenshot 6 posts up you can see I have 1 shield guy total now at day 550, and he really only exists because I found both a great named cleaver and a good named shield. Good offense, best defence. Got it. vyelkin posted:There's another top-tier crossbow, the Spiked Impaler, which you can only get off the corpse of goblin overseers. It does the same damage as the Heavy Crossbow but also knocks the target back one tile, in exchange for slightly lower accuracy. I like it because the knockback is very handy, but be aware it's not always good (I once knocked a necromancer back into some long grass, which meant my other archers couldn't target him). I could see a crossbow with knockback being exceptionally useful in certain situations. Particularly against, bigger slower nastier creatures. Fought an Orc Warlord last night, yikes. Game is rock hard but very satisfying. I may retire my limping 200 day campaign now that I'm a bit more used to the game. Considering starting a barbarian run on the Goldmine seed - any suggested seeds?
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Jun 6, 2019 16:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Question I can't answer: Origins are definitely DLC locked. I know the old Direwolf Armor/Mail events (the Tailor one and the bandit encounter on that one contract type) were removed/altered in favor of the attachment, but I don't know if that means those are accessible in a non-DLC game or if they're just gone for good (or if you can score some pre-modified armor with the contract event even if you don't have the DLC, or what). Taxidermy should be DLC only as well, since it was a feature they advertised pretty heavily. The new monsters were locked to the DLC, and I'm like almost entirely sure Barbarians are DLC only as well. Ditto for legendary locations. Weapons I'm not sure about, but presumably you could test by deleting the DLC then loading saves that have new weapons in the inventory, or available in a shop. Any changes to perks and existing weapon stats are base game changes as well afaik
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Jun 6, 2019 16:20
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The devs sure like cultists. I picked one up with three stars in resolve to make into a sergeant and he's gotten a bunch of events that give +resolve so he's now 102 resolve. At level 5. Without using the sash.
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Jun 6, 2019 16:58
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Wizard Styles posted:The bardiche's Split doesn't have the inherent -5% accuracy penalty of 2h sword Split so they're the same assuming Mastery and the bardiche is more accurate without Mastery. That's a nice addition, I hadn't noticed that. I know it's good game balance for GS to not be the single god weapon but spamming AoE with them is so much fun and hammers and bardiches don't really match up due to the limitations of only have one AoE attack at a time. Re: DLC additions I'm pretty sure that all of the new weapons and armour specifically require the DLCs. E: One of the cool things about both the GS changes and bardiches is that I feel like it's a reasonable thing to have axe specialists now and that means that at least for some fights / under some circumstances you can use a greataxe and actually use Round Swing and it owns bones. I wish the to hit penalty was only 10% though, 15% is harsh considering all of the drawbacks. Either that or make round swing ignore allies (this would make axes into the best weapon type though) RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 17:22
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Wafflecopper posted:Is there such a thing as too much MA? This guy is such a glass cannon that you should probably dump everything you can into HP, fat, and Mdef/Rdef just on the off-chance that he'll maybe survive two attacks instead of just one. Grab whatever defensive perks you can as well (colossus, steel brow, etc.)
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Jun 6, 2019 19:19
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vyelkin posted:There's another top-tier crossbow, the Spiked Impaler, which you can only get off the corpse of goblin overseers. It does the same damage as the Heavy Crossbow but also knocks the target back one tile, in exchange for slightly lower accuracy. I like it because the knockback is very handy, but be aware it's not always good (I once knocked a necromancer back into some long grass, which meant my other archers couldn't target him). Bows are also great for spamming the overwhelm debuff on powerful foes. Two shots per turn from a couple archers will rapidly diminish the effectiveness of even the most powerful enemies. 4x overwhelm bow shots at a dangerous target = 40% reduction in that unit's melee and ranged attack stats for its next turn. You don't even need to land the shots! Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:22
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I’m gonna be honest I don’t think I’ve ever had a serious head injury happen. I’ve had the occasional broken nose it that’s really it. I don’t think I could ever see Steel Brow as a pick with only 11 perk points, but I default colossus on everyone so maybe that’s it? I’ve had guys die and 1-2 of them probably got head shot but I’ve spent like 300 days in this game fighting in the north full of spiked maces and the head injuries just aren’t there.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:39
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RabidWeasel posted:One of the cool things about both the GS changes and bardiches is that I feel like it's a reasonable thing to have axe specialists now and that means that at least for some fights / under some circumstances you can use a greataxe and actually use Round Swing and it owns bones. I wish the to hit penalty was only 10% though, 15% is harsh considering all of the drawbacks. Either that or make round swing ignore allies (this would make axes into the best weapon type though)
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Jun 6, 2019 21:07
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Wizard Styles posted:I'm currently experimenting with giving all AoE attacks -10% to hit (-5% if Mastery) and making them all cost 32 Fatigue which for Round Swing/Thresh means a 3 point cost reduction. Can you make new potions/items? I was thinking about something like an potion that gives a perk point instead of using any mod that uncaps them. It could be pretty expensive (schrat/necro/lindwurm mats or something) but I think it would be pretty cool to have.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:10
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Mazz posted:Can you make new potions/items? I was thinking about something like an potion that gives a perk point instead of using any mod that uncaps them. It could be pretty expensive (schrat/necro/lindwurm mats or something) but I think it would be pretty cool to have. Actually integrating them into the game by adding them to store and loot lists would probably mean a lot of annoying busywork, though, and be very prone to mod incompatibilities.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:16
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