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Florence just keeps going and going, there's no stopping us. As kindly suggested, I filled out Defensive Ideas, took Ragusa and diplo-annexed Venice, then proceeded to beat the snot out of Milan, Papal States and France, grabbed Rome, Milan and Mantua so I can now form Italy whenever I feel like it. Money is just rolling in, I'm on par with tech, and most of my territories are built up nicely. Since Naples broke their PU with Castile, I guess I'll form Italy to get claims and go to town as soon as I recover manpower and AE ticks down (everybody in the neighborhood loving hates me for being an rear end in a top hat warmonger), even though I'm afraid Austria won't be my BFF much longer, and they're leader of a PU with Hungary so I think I should start buttering up Poland, France or Castile just to be safe... State of things  :
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Sep 27, 2015 20:58
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Florence and Plorence.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:01
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Pellisworth posted:You can downsize enough to join the HRE if you want but I don't see much point now that Italy leaves in 1490. They're a pretty strong and straightforward start. Venice went through Mamluks and built an Asian trade empire from inside the HRE. Here, in fact, is the MP game's HRE:  Featuring Italian Unification and the Ottomans. Not featuring: Prussia
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Sep 27, 2015 21:05
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TorakFade posted:Florence just keeps going and going, there's no stopping us. edit: Also Milan.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:18
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Node posted:I just did this, in two separate games. Doing them both in the same game would be hard, for me, since I had to go nearly bankrupt at the end to afford my mercenaries during BBB. That should be an achievement in itself - getting BBB and Better Than Napoleon in the same game. There's no way that would be very hard. Even if you bankrupt yourself 50 years in, you've got 300 more to recover.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:56
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:There's no way that would be very hard. Even if you bankrupt yourself 50 years in, you've got 300 more to recover. Yeah, you're right. At worst, you bankrupt yourself, and you lose all the lovely lands you've conquered due to rebels, you have 300 years, you're France.
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Sep 27, 2015 22:33
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Well, today I got Basileus (with a Valois Emperor, no less), and also witnessed the AI form Italy for the first time ever. I then realized that AI Italy is absolutely pant shittingly terrifying and I should have been busting my rear end trying to prevent Naples from doing that rather than wasting years of dicking around managing vassals trying to get the Balkans under control. I scraped the achievement but I somehow don't think I'm going to keep going with this game; I'm basically in a cycle of the Adriatic coast getting reconquered by 500000 soldiers from the Franco-Italo-Polish alliance, followed by me going begging to Russia/Prussia/whoever so I have a chance to get them back in the next war, followed by 500000 more citizens of the world running roughshod over me as soon as the truce expires, with intermittent Mamluk invasions doing just enough to force me to divide my attention. This cycle has basically completely destroyed Prussia and Russia is starting to crumble too, last time I checked their Crimean provinces were getting invaded by Bengal. What I took away from this run is that you really want to move fast on conquering Anatolia/the Levant/Egypt or you're never going to get there at all. Maybe I should give that Ven->Byz trick another shot.
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Sep 27, 2015 22:50
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vuohi posted:Florence/Tuscany is so much stronger than it looks on the map because the Northern Italy provinces are ridiculously rich. I had to eat so much unexpected poo poo from there in my France World Conquest training runs. An expansive Papal state is also super terrible to fight against with all its money. Yes Italy is great, even though it's a clusterfuck in the beginning. Now I have a problem - Naples is still allied to Aragon + Castile so stealing from them is off the table for the moment, France has problems with my AE and being at war so doesn't want to be my buddy, Austria is my best buddy but I kinda want to get some Italian territory from them... I'm already allied with England, while Castile and the Ottomans have rivaled me. Who should I be turning to once either I or Austria decide that it's time to scrap our alliance and get rowdy? Also, this might be just me being an overly expansive rear end in a top hat so it was me doing all the warring, but in 120 years nobody declared war on me... is that normal? I was expecting someone to make a move while I was fighting Milan, Venice, the Pope etc...
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Sep 27, 2015 23:38
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TorakFade posted:Also, this might be just me being an overly expansive rear end in a top hat so it was me doing all the warring, but in 120 years nobody declared war on me... is that normal? I was expecting someone to make a move while I was fighting Milan, Venice, the Pope etc... You are big enough and have strong enough allies the AI didn't want to attack you. It's pretty common in my experience for no one to attack you for long stretches of time (or at all) outside of coalitions once you're big. The diplomatic AI is actually really smart, if you were weakened it would have pounced on you. Likely you haven't wiped your manpower or something that would present an opportunity. As for allies, maybe Bohemia or Prussia? They look decently strong in that screenshot. Maybe Poland or Lithuania.
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Sep 27, 2015 23:55
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I feel you, Italy buddy. I started as Milan and the Iberian wedding fired off in, say, 1450. Naples got integrated before I consolidated in North Italy. It's been a crazy and fun game, because my little country has been biting off more than it can chew all the time. I found that once Austria stopped playing nice with me, France and Bohemia were solid alternatives: they both hated Austria. In the meantime, Bohemia hates me as well, but France has been my bulldog in driving the Spanish out of my peninsula.  I'm unsure if I should keep pounding on Tunis and the Ottomans to consolidate my power in the Mediterranean, or go after India before Delhi gets too big. Also, notice the glorious Shia Syria. While the ottomans were caving under war exhaustion I supported some separatists and went to town with France. It's actually really cool, releasing Syria would've taken 100% warscore otherwise but the enforce rebel demands option only costs 50%, letting me take some of their provinces as well once I had beaten them.
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Sep 28, 2015 00:04
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If you already control 50%+ of alexandria and aden trade nodes, you will be making way more money invading India than dealing with the Ottomans.
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Sep 28, 2015 03:36
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England and Sweden never seem to go protestant at the same time.
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Sep 28, 2015 04:10
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OneTwentySix posted:colonize Cape Collecting anywhere but capital nullifies all of the bonuses form transferring trade everywhere else apparently.
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Sep 28, 2015 04:11
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Baron Porkface posted:Collecting anywhere but capital nullifies all of the bonuses form transferring trade everywhere else apparently. I don't understand why the game does that. I guess to encourage dominating only one trade node, instead of taking big chunks out of a lot of different ones.
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Sep 28, 2015 04:22
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I think the game is laughing at me as I continue trying to get a Byzantium run started. The planets finally aligned and I got Poland to ally with me. The Ottomans declared war on me, but then Bohemia declared war on one of Poland's allies (Brandenburg). The war was hopeless for Bohemia, as Poland proceeded to spend a ton of manpower crushing them into the dirt. It seems as if AI Bohemia declared the war with the sole intent of distracting Poland. Now with that war done, Poland and Lithuania's armies are content to simply stand idle in their own territory while the Ottomans crush me. What the gently caress.  e: and then poland accepted a white peace with ottomans barely a year into the war. what the hell is going on? Deutsch Nozzle fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 05:28
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If Poland doesn't rival Ottos at game start it can be difficult to get them (or anyone else) to do any sort of heavy lifting for you, which is why I prefer galley spam as an opening play.
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Sep 28, 2015 05:36
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I ran a deficit to build a bunch of galleys to block the straits but I was the first war Ottomans declared, so their armies were still in Greece at the start. The amount of poo poo that has to line up perfectly to even get Byzantium started is ridiculous.
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Sep 28, 2015 05:39
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Deutsch Nozzle posted:I ran a deficit to build a bunch of galleys to block the straits but I was the first war Ottomans declared, so their armies were still in Greece at the start. The amount of poo poo that has to line up perfectly to even get Byzantium started is ridiculous. Yeah, if that happens you will generally lose regardless of what allies you get. Starts like Byz really make me wish there was a simple "restart game" button on the menu, the way the game start works is such that many weaker countries are simply hosed some percent of the time and having to quit out and load back in just because RNG wasn't happy is slow and annoying. Byz isn't even close to the worst start for this either.
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Sep 28, 2015 05:53
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Okay you got some bad advice on byz so here's my pro strat if you're starting as byz: Start over if: Poland didn't rival ottos Austria didn't rival Venice You don't have the +1 dip rep advisor Day one: Take the mission to get the eastern Balkans Start improving relations with Poland Start improving relations with Athens Use your spare diplomat to fab claims on venice's stuff Build an early carrack. This thing will take a lot of hits so your galleys can do their work. Makes a massive difference Take loans until you have enough galleys to make your fleet 25 big Invest one admin development into Constantinople to get 11 land force limits Set your maintenance to 0, fleet and army Mothball or destroy your forts. Build two land units in morea and achens. Horses are nice but not needed. Mercs are perfect for this Now you wait until relations with Poland are at +71. At that point, hire the dip advisor and RM them. You'll be able to ally them right after. Do so. You can fire the dip rep advisor after this if you need cash. You have until 1450 to plan your attack. Ideally, strike when Poland isn't fighting TO and ottos are fighting the likes of the mamluks. Any war will help keep them in Anatolia, though. Give yourself a few months to recover from 0 maintenance. When you DOW, make sure your fleet is in the Bosphorus but not on a large ottoman fleet. If you engage from the get go, you risk being dog piled by their fleets. Naval AI is really bad and won't attack your blockade. Then you wait for Poland to get into the Balkans. Let a few ottoman armies across the strait if there's none other nearby. You can take them divided if you're careful. Once Europe is occupied, Poland will almost always cross the strait and fight. Help out when you can, but things can get rough here. Chip away at the ottoman fleet and blockade when you can. If you are not unlucky, you'll be able to slowly 100% the ottomans. If they have allies, just wait till they are at low enthusiasm and white peace. Tunis likes to land like 4 units, snipe mothballed forts and generally be a nuisance so watch out. After you get 100%, grab your cores and all or most of Bulgaria. Albania is key too if they took it already, but absolutely make sure you can fab claims on all the other Balkan minors. Your next goal is to vassalize Walachia, so fab a claim and do that. Meanwhile do the same for Serbia and Bosnia. Ragusa is probably eaten by them by now. Eating Serbia and Bosnia should be done by straight annexation. It'll cost a lot of admin, but it's better than slowing down expansion with diplo annexation. Plus you get gold. Once you have all of the immediate Balkans, get an alliance with Austria and gently caress venice up. Anything after this is up to you. You shouldn't look to make friends with Hungary, since you need to expand through them. You will be a major power in no time, with strong friends to boot.
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Sep 28, 2015 06:07
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By "bad advice" I mean outdated really. The blockade shouldn't be your only strategy to win the first war. That worked before, but now ottos can get military access.
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Sep 28, 2015 06:09
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420 Gank Mid posted:If you already control 50%+ of alexandria and aden trade nodes, you will be making way more money invading India than dealing with the Ottomans. Alexandria yes, but Aden I have like 3%. Should I start snaking my way down towards Oman and the Horn, or is it feasible to just use light ships to get my power there up?
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Sep 28, 2015 10:11
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I didn't need a statesman for my Basileus win, at all. Or any specific rivalry setup. In fact, my first war didn't have any battles at all. The only thing that must happen is that the Ottomans need to give you enough time to build galleys, and have them declare war on an Anatolian Minor, so their stacks are on the eastern side of the Bosphorus. Then you declare war, block the strait, take back your cores and whatever else you can get out of the deal. Once you do that, Poland will pretty much be guaranteed to ally you since you're bigger. The Ottomans have one big weakness, and that is smothering them in the crib. If you can do that, they're a very tame beast. Node fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 10:39
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When did you do your run?
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Sep 28, 2015 12:19
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Baron Porkface posted:Collecting anywhere but capital nullifies all of the bonuses form transferring trade everywhere else apparently. Those bonuses are pretty minor, compared to collecting a huge chunk of the Asian and east African trade with no competition.
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Sep 28, 2015 12:24
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Could you clarify what those bonuses are, since they don't seem to be recorded on the wiki?
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Sep 28, 2015 12:27
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Cynic Jester posted:Unless you're doing a 1 province run, province development isn't very good, with the notable exceptions of gold mines, surplus point drain and to a lesser extent, upping trade on a province stacked with modifiers in a node with competition(though murdering the poo poo out of the other party will always be a better option). Development is actually really critical for native American nations - there's not that much else to do with all those points and a 30 point province is significantly more useful than a 3 point province. Admittedly this is mainly because Paradox turned North America into some weird kind of desert wasteland with Common Sense. I'm thinking we should take Wiz out and show him the Midwest or something. LOOK! THINGS GROW! (not texas)
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Sep 28, 2015 15:30
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North America was way overnerfed in 1.12... miscommunication between intent and design. We're going to restore some of that in 1.14.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:35
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Baron Porkface posted:Could you clarify what those bonuses are, since they don't seem to be recorded on the wiki? Your home node gets +10% Trade Power for each merchant you have steering as long as you're not collecting elsewhere. This is nice if you don't completely dominate your trade port, but once you've blobbed up it's not all that relevant and may be worthwhile to collect in another node too.
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Sep 28, 2015 16:35
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Deltasquid posted:Alexandria yes, but Aden I have like 3%. Should I start snaking my way down towards Oman and the Horn, or is it feasible to just use light ships to get my power there up? With every center of trade in the node you'll probably have about half power before you even start protecting trade, but since that is the major node that connects India into the Mediterranean, going for 100% control is not a bad idea.
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Sep 28, 2015 18:16
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Wiz posted:North America was way overnerfed in 1.12... miscommunication between intent and design. We're going to restore some of that in 1.14. Are you able to elaborate on this? We've been considering ways to fix it for EG so you might be saving us the work!
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Sep 28, 2015 18:45
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Obliterati posted:Are you able to elaborate on this? We've been considering ways to fix it for EG so you might be saving us the work! Just raise the development to somewhere between where it was and where it is now.
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Sep 28, 2015 18:52
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Obliterati posted:Are you able to elaborate on this? We've been considering ways to fix it for EG so you might be saving us the work! I'm pretty sure that EG overwrites all of the province files right now.
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Sep 28, 2015 18:54
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Wiz posted:Just raise the development to somewhere between where it was and where it is now. Dibujante posted:I'm pretty sure that EG overwrites all of the province files right now. Well either way this is basically what we had in mind so thanks for this. We were also considering development cost discounts and the like but perhaps we should just wait to see where things settle first.
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Sep 28, 2015 19:01
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Btw, what was the interesting and ultimately slightly OP spice island start people were talking about earlier in the thread again?
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Sep 28, 2015 19:06
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Obliterati posted:Well either way this is basically what we had in mind so thanks for this. We were also considering development cost discounts and the like but perhaps we should just wait to see where things settle first. If you do need a systematic sweep of a large number of provinces let me know; I still have my tools. Wiz if you migrated paradox script to some other notation (JSON, yml, lua, ???) which would be your first pick and why?
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Sep 28, 2015 19:10
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Munin posted:Btw, what was the interesting and ultimately slightly OP spice island start people were talking about earlier in the thread again? Not too complicated, mostly you eat Indonesia while colonizing, pretty much like any Malaya playthrough. They have pretty cool NIs and special goods produced modifiers so they're extremely wealthy for OPMs. The gamey bit is accumulating permanent modifiers from religious decisions by converting yourself Animist -> Hindu -> Sikh -> Sunni or whatever. The region is a mess of different religions so it's easy to do. You can stack a lot of MS, -RR, and other stuff. Note that you're not in the Malay culture group and it may be beneficial to move your capital to Makassar and culture swap so you can form Malay.
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Sep 28, 2015 19:16
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How do you change religion as Ternate/Tidore anyway? I couldnt get zealots to spawn on Java
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Sep 28, 2015 19:32
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Whorelord posted:How do you change religion as Ternate/Tidore anyway? I couldnt get zealots to spawn on Java Send a missionary, to up revolt risk and change the rebels to hindu fanatics. Cancel and restart the conversion if it's about to finish. Decrease autonomy to increase the speed at which you get rebels.
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Sep 28, 2015 19:37
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Cynic Jester posted:Send a missionary, to up revolt risk and change the rebels to hindu fanatics. Cancel and restart the conversion if it's about to finish. Decrease autonomy to increase the speed at which you get rebels. You can turn down the missionary slider on the economy page and the missionary will sit there preaching perpetually.
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Sep 28, 2015 19:44
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Whorelord posted:How do you change religion as Ternate/Tidore anyway? I couldnt get zealots to spawn on Java You don't need rebels to spawn to convert if a majority of provinces follow the religion. So you can just conquer until you have majority Hindu, then accept demands to immediately flip without waiting for a rebel stack to pop. Edit: this works in India, too. The big Muslim nations generally have special events that are Muslim-only early on but after 1500 or so you can basically just push a button and pay 50 prestige to convert to Hindu at will. Of course if you want the rebels to march around converting everything for you, you'll need to wait to spawn them. Edit2: generally I would say wait until after 1500 and convert to Hindu. Animists get a decision that gives +2% MS at I think 6 ADM tech? And then Sikhism will appear around 1500 and you can push a button to convert. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 20:03
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